Unconditional Love... is it really unconditional? - Page 2

Bit · 03-20-2010, 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SassyLeo

I had a few friends who did really fucked up stuff and I chose to separate from the friendship. Was I then withholding the unconditional love?

Do you still love them? If you do, then I would say, no you weren't withholding love, even if you withdrew from the relationships.

For me, there is a difference between "loving someone unconditionally" and "accepting all their behaviors without question"... I believe it's certainly possible to love someone unconditionally, even if I have to tell them, "for the sake of my own mental health, I cannot be around your dysfunctional behaviors right now."

I think it's also possible to say, "I love you unconditionally, and for the sake of that love, I cannot allow you to behave badly without consequences." I believe this is the concept that Tough Love is built on--as well as the concept good parenting is built on.

Sachita · 03-20-2010, 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bit

Do you still love them? If you do, then I would say, no you weren't withholding love, even if you withdrew from the relationships.

For me, there is a difference between "loving someone unconditionally" and "accepting all their behaviors without question"... I believe it's certainly possible to love someone unconditionally, even if I have to tell them, "for the sake of my own mental health, I cannot be around your dysfunctional behaviors right now."

I think it's also possible to say, "I love you unconditionally, and for the sake of that love, I cannot allow you to behave badly without consequences." I believe this is the concept that Tough Love is built on--as well as the concept good parenting is built on.

Thank you Bit. This is what i was trying to get across too but have brain problems today.

I would move mountains, sacrifice, do almost anything for my son, however most of the time i just don't like him.

I think some people I am close to are big assholes, truly need serious help but I still love them.

adorable · 03-20-2010, 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SassyLeo

As much as my friends tease me about being a mother (as in, they used to buy me Mother's Day cards ), and there is definitely a caretaker and mothering instinct in me, I am not a mother...and could not speak from this perspective.

But I am sure my mother could. When I think about it this way...well, I know that my parents love(d) me completely unconditionally. I am sure I *tested* them many a time. And they still loved me. And I am sure they taught me to also love this way. I admire you parents in this way. Do you think you would still love them unconditionally if they did something really awful? I guess it is hard to say "what if"....

I think about friends whom I've had over the years who have done things which I did not agree with, but I still loved them. I guess, unconditionally. I had a few friends who did really fucked up stuff and I chose to separate from the friendship. Was I then withholding the unconditional love?

"Really awful" is such a relative term depending on the family. I could say with 100% certainty that even if they killed someone, tortured a puppy, killed a baby seal, poked out my left eye.....lol...that I would love them no matter what! I wouldn't like any of those things....just like I don't like my oldest daughters current facial piercing trend...but that's my kid - even if she can't make it thru a metal detector.

Bit is right that it is possible to love unconditionally and for your own mental stability cut someone out of your life. In fact sometimes the most loving thing you can do is walk away. There is a line between enabling and loving.

AtLast · 03-20-2010, 01:36 PM

Yes, unconditional love exists. I did experience it as a child and give it to my own kid and he came to me via a family death. However, there are so many that have not felt this kind of love from parents and family. Sure, I pushed some limits.

I think unconditional love with a relationship is possible, but not probable and shouldn't be. We all have deal-breakers that allow us to be true to ourselves and avoid abusive situations. At least, I hope we all do... marriage/partnerships are not the same as parenting and for the life of me, I don't get why some people believe unconditional love in relationships is healthy. Perhaps, the love felt will never leave (but transforms), but, if someone is not really a good match and a healthy steady-state can't be achieved, love can remain, but the relationship is not the best it can be and we all deserve the best it can be!

Bit · 03-20-2010, 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sachita

Thank you Bit. This is what i was trying to get across too but have brain problems today.

I would move mountains, sacrifice, do almost anything for my son, however most of the time i just don't like him.

I think some people I am close to are big assholes, truly need serious help but I still love them.

You're welcome, Sachita.

You know, your post here, combined with other people's posts here about their parents, really resonates with me. My biofamily is full of people who BELIEVE they love unconditionally even as they judge and judge and judge again. Like others have said, they think they love me and yet they don't even KNOW me--because it isn't safe for me to let them know me.

Do I love them all, even when they do things which are heinous to me, like praying against me, invoking God to control me? Yes.

Is my love unconditional? I dunno. If they behaved badly enough, they certainly could kill it off. But for now, while I love them, it doesn't depend on what they do.

Maybe that's the major blessing of the Geographical Cure. *wry smile*

Sachita · 03-20-2010, 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bit

You're welcome, Sachita.

You know, your post here, combined with other people's posts here about their parents, really resonates with me. My biofamily is full of people who BELIEVE they love unconditionally even as they judge and judge and judge again. Like others have said, they think they love me and yet they don't even KNOW me--because it isn't safe for me to let them know me.

Do I love them all, even when they do things which are heinous to me, like praying against me, invoking God to control me? Yes.

Is my love unconditional? I dunno. If they behaved badly enough, they certainly could kill it off. But for now, while I love them, it doesn't depend on what they do.

Maybe that's the major blessing of the Geographical Cure. *wry smile*

I hate being judged. That sucks

I'm lucky. I feel loved. My sisters are my best friends and all it takes is three words- I need you. everything drops and we do whatever it takes. this love we have is the purest I've ever had. I'm not sure what happened to our kids. They're good kids just selfish.

I think that you reach a point in your life where your happiness is essential. Its not about anyone else and the people you want in your space are investing in that happiness. If they don't it doesnt mean you love them less, you just have your own agenda. it doesnt include them.

I have friends I've known and loved for 25 plus years. I've closed the door on many, my life has changed, I just cant have drama.

JustLovelyJenn · 03-20-2010, 03:24 PM

This too is a topic that hits very close to home for me. As I read all of your responses this morning I considered commenting on them, but I decided it would be easier just to tell my story.

My family is Mormon. And I don't mean a few generations, my great-great-great grandfather was a body guard to Joseph Smith and his family lived on the Smith Farm, they traveled to the Salt Lake valley with the early settlers. My grandfather was a bishop and my entire life has been enforced by that standard. I was REQUIRED to attend early morning bible study in high school with the threat of loosing all of my optional classes such as Choir and Drama if I didn't.

I didn't come out to my parents on purpose, and when it did happen, through a happen chance. (My father coded the medical records of my girlfriend from an ER visit and noted my name on the chart as her "Partner") It was 3 weeks before he would talk to me. My mother wasn't quite as difficult about it, but most certainly not in the acceptance side of the equation.

All of that said. I LOVE MY PARENTS, 100% unconditionally. I love them even when they say hurtful things, I love them even when I think about how they will react when I bring a partner to a family gathering. I love them with all my heart. I always have, its just built into how I love someone. If I choose to love you, I love you with everything I have to give.

I also know that they love me. That they try to look past and ignore things they thing are absolutely wrong with how I "choose" to live my life. I live with them now, with my two children, and we keep a precarious balance similar to the "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" policy. Every once in a while it will go to far to one side or the other and tempers will flair.

As hard as it is for me to admit this, because it sometimes hurt so much... I think I have to say that I believe my parents love me unconditionally. Because to me, that unconditional love means doing everything in your power to love a person, even when their very actions go against everything you would support. It means that no matter what I do, my parents will love me the best way they can. I know if I killed someone (which would never happen) that they would visit me in jail. I know that if I were a drug addict they would pay for my rehab. I know that even though I am gay they have me in their home and they help me with my children. That they would allow my partner to visit and would say little about what happened that they did not see.

Yes, I believe in unconditional love. Yes, I also believe that you can love someone unconditionally if you don't agree with their choices. In fact, I believe that is the hardest test of unconditional love.

AtLast · 03-20-2010, 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bit

You're welcome, Sachita.

You know, your post here, combined with other people's posts here about their parents, really resonates with me. My biofamily is full of people who BELIEVE they love unconditionally even as they judge and judge and judge again. Like others have said, they think they love me and yet they don't even KNOW me--because it isn't safe for me to let them know me.

Do I love them all, even when they do things which are heinous to me, like praying against me, invoking God to control me? Yes.

Is my love unconditional? I dunno. If they behaved badly enough, they certainly could kill it off. But for now, while I love them, it doesn't depend on what they do.

Maybe that's the major blessing of the Geographical Cure. *wry smile*

Thinking about what you are saying about under certain circumstances, you would need to extracate yourself from bio-family. Your love might remain in some form, but, I think if it was for your best interest to cut them out of your life, it makes sense. Painful, but, I sure know people that have had to do this.

In fact, my niece came to a point in her life for about 4 yeras that she had just had it with my sister and stopped seeing or talking to her. She did allow her kids to continue to see my sister and brother-in-law (nieces step-father, an OK guy). Although, it hurt me to see this, I really felt that my niece had some good reasons for this and at that time, it was what she needed to do for herself. My sister was not giving her unconditional love and not viewing my niece at this time as the person she was and had not throughout her childhood. My sister was emotionally abusive to her daughter (and at times, physically abusive- she, herself was being abused as such by an alcoholic husband). They eventually worked through this, but, I still don't believe my sister recognizes my niece for the woman she is and that makes me sad. My sister did apologize and acknowledge her abusive parenting, however.

Jaques · 03-20-2010, 06:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by key

This is a topic I wrestle with daily.

This question of unconditional love, especially in regards to family members.
all we ever do for one another? Is there ever such a thing as unconditional love...really?

yes i feel there is and its not "i will love you if you love me" or "if you do this for me i will do that for you"..............its when you love someone regardless of what they are, what they do or say - even when they dont love or are mean to you. It doesnt necessarily mean you like them, but the love is there anyway. Its often this way with your children, sometimes you really dont like the things they do or agree with them but you love em anyway.

.............so i feel to love unconditionally is to give love without expecting it in return..............

Linus · 03-20-2010, 06:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaques

yes i feel there is and its not "i will love you if you love me" or "if you do this for me i will do that for you"..............its when you love someone regardless of what they are, what they do or say - even when they dont love or are mean to you. It doesnt necessarily mean you like them, but the love is there anyway. Its often this way with your children, sometimes you really dont like the things they do or agree with them but you love em anyway.

.............so i feel to love unconditionally is to give love without expecting it in return..............

Well said, Jaques.

I whole heartedly agree. Yes, we each have responsibilities in life but that shouldn't be held as part of what love is.

hippieflowergirl · 03-20-2010, 08:29 PM

a few years ago i had a conversation with someone so much smarter than i could ever hope to be who said he thought our job in life was to enter into certain "unconditional contracts" with the Universe, contracts whose purpose was to teach us what we needed to know. the conversation took place over several days but when it was over i was hooked on his idea.

most days i suck at being part of humanity. i dont understand how it works or how to fit in. i dont always feel a connection to the contracts i chose (unconditional acceptance, unconditional forgiveness, and unconditional love) but it's not the choices themselves that make me uncomfortable. i do that all on my own by making countless mistakes. but i never feel like i can go wholly wrong if i hang on to my agreements...even if i'm hanging on by my fingernails.

i know people who dont think it's possible to live unconditionally but i think they mistake "unconditional" with being a door mat and/or with altruism. but i never said living unconditionally meant someone could walk all over me and i never said i didnt get anything out of it.

unconditional acceptance, forgiveness and love are the easiest things in the world. they're just choices. all of life is simple. it's the things we try to "do" rather than our efforts to just "be" that cause the confusion. and then it's easy to give up too.

maybe we just need to keep choosing...not just once a week or every day...but every minute...every breath.

(shrug) sorry i'm just rambling like an idiot. i'm tired.

i like the freedom my three contracts give me. i like how much less complicated life became once the choices were made. the one stumbling block i run into from time to time is applying that same acceptance, forgiveness and love to myself.

KayCee · 03-21-2010, 05:33 AM

I believe the greatest form of unconditional love is between mother and child.

Sachita · 03-21-2010, 06:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hippieflowergirl

a few years ago i had a conversation with someone so much smarter than i could ever hope to be who said he thought our job in life was to enter into certain "unconditional contracts" with the Universe, contracts whose purpose was to teach us what we needed to know. the conversation took place over several days but when it was over i was hooked on his idea.

most days i suck at being part of humanity. i dont understand how it works or how to fit in. i dont always feel a connection to the contracts i chose (unconditional acceptance, unconditional forgiveness, and unconditional love) but it's not the choices themselves that make me uncomfortable. i do that all on my own by making countless mistakes. but i never feel like i can go wholly wrong if i hang on to my agreements...even if i'm hanging on by my fingernails.

i know people who dont think it's possible to live unconditionally but i think they mistake "unconditional" with being a door mat and/or with altruism. but i never said living unconditionally meant someone could walk all over me and i never said i didnt get anything out of it.

unconditional acceptance, forgiveness and love are the easiest things in the world. they're just choices. all of life is simple. it's the things we try to "do" rather than our efforts to just "be" that cause the confusion. and then it's easy to give up too.

maybe we just need to keep choosing...not just once a week or every day...but every minute...every breath.

(shrug) sorry i'm just rambling like an idiot. i'm tired.

i like the freedom my three contracts give me. i like how much less complicated life became once the choices were made. the one stumbling block i run into from time to time is applying that same acceptance, forgiveness and love to myself.

oh wow - well put and honest. I feel like I am always struggling to keep that connection. Life sure has many lessons but even with this my ability to love only grows stronger.

we are human, however the question really is "are we conscious?" we all have days we go through the motions and sometimes its easier to ignore than deal with something. BUT you're right, considering our actions often, making it muscle memory, part of us, this clearly defines us. No matter how hard the truth is some humans are incapable of unconditional love. Its just something they can't wrap their heads around and probably not their fault.

love is a microcosmic evolution within us. our expression and the love we project feeds the collective. the moment we begin to understand this our world begins to open.

Diva · 03-21-2010, 08:49 AM

I have only known 1 person in my life who could love ANYone unconditionally.....that was my Mother.

I should BE so wise.

Soft*Silver · 03-21-2010, 11:26 AM

the only person on this earth I love inconditionally is my daughter. And she has seen fit to make me prove it over the years...laughing. From the moment that old soul was placed in my arms and I looked into the face that had just seen God, I knew I had nothing to give her. I was a woman spinning out of control in her life, drinking way too much, avoiding all the baggage from my past and was married to someone I didnt love. In her lake blue eyes I saw myself...and that Self of hers was so pure and divine, that I instantly resonated....

it took me many years to untangle the mess i was in but I did it. I did it to be worthy of being her parent. I wish I had done it before hand but honestly, I hadnt known that kind of love until she Saw me.

Now, it matters not how she behaves, or what she says, I love her. And she has done and said some pretty bad things over the years, but then again, sometimes I deserved it and other times, she just needed an emotional punching bag. I didnt stand to be that, and stepped out of the way, but I loved her regardless.

Now we have an incredible relationship. And her eyes are green now, not blue. But when I look into them I still see God and I see my connection there.

Loving someone unconditionally isnt about letting them treat you like a doormat. Its simply about loving them when and especially its the hardest time to love them...without losing yourself in the process..

Sachita · 03-21-2010, 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by softness

the only person on this earth I love inconditionally is my daughter. And she has seen fit to make me prove it over the years...laughing. From the moment that old soul was placed in my arms and I looked into the face that had just seen God, I knew I had nothing to give her. I was a woman spinning out of control in her life, drinking way too much, avoiding all the baggage from my past and was married to someone I didnt love. In her lake blue eyes I saw myself...and that Self of hers was so pure and divine, that I instantly resonated....

it took me many years to untangle the mess i was in but I did it. I did it to be worthy of being her parent. I wish I had done it before hand but honestly, I hadnt known that kind of love until she Saw me.

Now, it matters not how she behaves, or what she says, I love her. And she has done and said some pretty bad things over the years, but then again, sometimes I deserved it and other times, she just needed an emotional punching bag. I didnt stand to be that, and stepped out of the way, but I loved her regardless.

Now we have an incredible relationship. And her eyes are green now, not blue. But when I look into them I still see God and I see my connection there.

Loving someone unconditionally isnt about letting them treat you like a doormat. Its simply about loving them when and especially its the hardest time to love them...without losing yourself in the process..

OMG that made me cry. Our journey was close. My son is an adult now and we put each other through hell but we were always connected and very close today. It's hard for people to know that connection unless you're in it. Your desire to please you child no matter what. It's powerful beyond words.

Isadora · 03-21-2010, 12:07 PM

I love one person unconditionally. One.

hippieflowergirl · 03-21-2010, 08:48 PM

it took me a long time to finally fall in love. it wasnt easy to accept love for myself so i think i've always gone about finding it the wrong way and i hurt a lot of people in the process.

i've loved often and fortunately i'm still friends with those i've had long term relationships with, something for which i'm grateful. but i've only fallen in love once and that was the love that taught me what it was to be loved...or to allow myself to be loved...in return.

i always tried not to show weakness or ask for help. it was only when it was made clear that such revelations were expected of me that i understood that love was messy and ridiculous and sometimes confusing (but confusing only when i was getting in its way) and that it was okay that it be so.

i think unconditional acceptance and forgiveness and love requires us to be flawed and to not hide that fact the way so many people do. love isnt blind. love sees every flaw and oddity and mistake and moment of jackassery...and loves because of those things...because of the messy, ridiculous, confusing, unraveled parts rather than in spite of them. "in spite of" puts one partner in a "less than" place.

loving because of the struggle...loving because you can engage the struggle together...loving even when someone makes you so angry you cant see straight...that's unconditional. when love is more important than anger...that's unconditional. when love is more important than whatever false pride or moment of stupidity or lapse of judgment...that's unconditional. it doesnt mean that boundaries can be ignored or promises dont matter...it means that whatever anger or hurt or missteps there are dont have to overwhelm the reasons for loving.

no one comes equipped with this stuff. it's learning, learning that no matter how crazy a choice seems or how obvious a mistake should have been you still love without thinking less of the other because of those moments.

all anger is a "moment". all hurt is a moment. some moments are longer than others. but they're still just moments. if something is unhealthy or unsafe, we can accept and forgive (ourselves as well as others) and love...and then walk away.

unconditional love is always possible. always. because it's a choice. choice is easy. follow through takes more work...but choice is easy. once you choose, actively, sometimes with every breath...the follow through is easier too.

why would i deny myself the honor of sitting in the discomfort and pain and the heartache with the person i love the most? dont i want them to do that for me? we all want unconditional acceptance and forgiveness and love. when it comes time to step up and provide reciprocity...why should we find it so hard? it's just a choice. nothing can happen before we make the choice.

"unconditional" is just a way of breathing through the moments and of knowing that there is no mistake or misstep or lapse that anyone else can make that i cant (or havent) made as well.

* i was what you are, you will be what i am

zannadyke · 03-21-2010, 08:57 PM

I guess I believe in "unconditional love" to a point... For example, I will ALWAYS love my mom. I know she doesn't see eye to eye with me about many things, and will argue me to death about my lifestyle and life choices, but she is always there for me when I need her, and I know I can always count on her, just as she knows I can always count on her. With her, her love and giving comes with a price, she wants certain things in return... like things that she feels she needs to have some control over in my life, which i won't get into... but the deep down love that caring for me should I ever need it, should I ever be in trouble, should I ever be ill... that's ALWAYS there and it's there for me regarding her. I think deep down, THAT is what unconditional love is. I don't believe my mom would ever disown me based on a disagreement, nor would I disown her either. I feel the same way about my kids... they may disappoint me with choices they make in life or by saying things or other... but I will always love them no matter what.

hippieflowergirl · 03-21-2010, 10:04 PM

i think people are afraid to love unconditionally because loving unconditionally is hard...or because it sounds airyfairy and impossible. or worse...because of the inevitable pain involved in doing so.

being afraid of being hurt is a cop out. of course you're going to be hurt! you're in love with a human being arent you? who the hell are we to demand that no one hurt us? how can we tell people they have to be perfect when we havent managed it yet? i cannot understand the "you hurt me so now you're not trustworthy" mentality.

how anemic is the love that walks away when things get hard?

before you dust off your indignation...i'm not talking about domestic violence or choices that jeopardize safety. i'm talking about the human beings who fuck up, plain and simple, (and we ALL do it) and then find themselves suddenly single because the love they were part of couldnt hold up under pressure. it's anemic. that's the only word for it. anemic.

glass houses baby. glass houses.

"People are afraid of themselves, of their own reality; their feelings most of all. People talk about how perfect love is, but that's bullshit. Love hurts. Feelings are disturbing. People are taught that pain is evil and dangerous. How can they deal with love if they're afraid to feel? Pain is meant to wake us up. People try to hide their pain. But they're wrong. Pain is something to carry, like a radio. You feel your strength in the experience of pain. It's all in how you carry it. That's what matters. That's honest. Give me that kind of love" Jim Morrison

03-20-2010, 03:24 PM	#27
JustLovelyJenn Senior Member How Do You Identify?: Femme Preferred Pronoun?: She/her Relationship Status: That's Need to Know Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Aberdeen, WA Posts: 4,478 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 12,464 Thanked 13,992 Times in 3,684 Posts Rep Power: 21474856	This too is a topic that hits very close to home for me. As I read all of your responses this morning I considered commenting on them, but I decided it would be easier just to tell my story. My family is Mormon. And I don't mean a few generations, my great-great-great grandfather was a body guard to Joseph Smith and his family lived on the Smith Farm, they traveled to the Salt Lake valley with the early settlers. My grandfather was a bishop and my entire life has been enforced by that standard. I was REQUIRED to attend early morning bible study in high school with the threat of loosing all of my optional classes such as Choir and Drama if I didn't. I didn't come out to my parents on purpose, and when it did happen, through a happen chance. (My father coded the medical records of my girlfriend from an ER visit and noted my name on the chart as her "Partner") It was 3 weeks before he would talk to me. My mother wasn't quite as difficult about it, but most certainly not in the acceptance side of the equation. All of that said. I LOVE MY PARENTS, 100% unconditionally. I love them even when they say hurtful things, I love them even when I think about how they will react when I bring a partner to a family gathering. I love them with all my heart. I always have, its just built into how I love someone. If I choose to love you, I love you with everything I have to give. I also know that they love me. That they try to look past and ignore things they thing are absolutely wrong with how I "choose" to live my life. I live with them now, with my two children, and we keep a precarious balance similar to the "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" policy. Every once in a while it will go to far to one side or the other and tempers will flair. As hard as it is for me to admit this, because it sometimes hurt so much... I think I have to say that I believe my parents love me unconditionally. Because to me, that unconditional love means doing everything in your power to love a person, even when their very actions go against everything you would support. It means that no matter what I do, my parents will love me the best way they can. I know if I killed someone (which would never happen) that they would visit me in jail. I know that if I were a drug addict they would pay for my rehab. I know that even though I am gay they have me in their home and they help me with my children. That they would allow my partner to visit and would say little about what happened that they did not see. Yes, I believe in unconditional love. Yes, I also believe that you can love someone unconditionally if you don't agree with their choices. In fact, I believe that is the hardest test of unconditional love. __________________ --Jenn

03-21-2010, 05:33 AM	#32
KayCee Member How Do You Identify?: Multifaceted Queer Femme Preferred Pronoun?: It's a secret Relationship Status: And from my lips hye drew the hallelujah Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Somewhere over the rainbow clicking my heels Posts: 732 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 2,646 Thanked 1,722 Times in 521 Posts Rep Power: 8635875	I believe the greatest form of unconditional love is between mother and child. __________________ "Being Femme means my feminism and my femininity walk hand in hand "

03-21-2010, 11:26 AM	#35
SoftSilver Infamous Member How Do You Identify?: femme Preferred Pronoun?: she Relationship Status: Married Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: rose cottage Posts: 5,592 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 8,948 Thanked 15,894 Times in 4,062 Posts Rep Power*: 21474857	the only person on this earth I love inconditionally is my daughter. And she has seen fit to make me prove it over the years...laughing. From the moment that old soul was placed in my arms and I looked into the face that had just seen God, I knew I had nothing to give her. I was a woman spinning out of control in her life, drinking way too much, avoiding all the baggage from my past and was married to someone I didnt love. In her lake blue eyes I saw myself...and that Self of hers was so pure and divine, that I instantly resonated.... it took me many years to untangle the mess i was in but I did it. I did it to be worthy of being her parent. I wish I had done it before hand but honestly, I hadnt known that kind of love until she Saw me. Now, it matters not how she behaves, or what she says, I love her. And she has done and said some pretty bad things over the years, but then again, sometimes I deserved it and other times, she just needed an emotional punching bag. I didnt stand to be that, and stepped out of the way, but I loved her regardless. Now we have an incredible relationship. And her eyes are green now, not blue. But when I look into them I still see God and I see my connection there. Loving someone unconditionally isnt about letting them treat you like a doormat. Its simply about loving them when and especially its the hardest time to love them...without losing yourself in the process.. __________________ Pole bachit, a lis chuye. The field sees, the forest hears

03-21-2010, 12:07 PM	#37
Isadora Member How Do You Identify?: Momma, Ma'am Preferred Pronoun?: She/Her Relationship Status: I am in love. Truly Madly Deeply Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: California Posts: 997 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 502 Thanked 2,127 Times in 559 Posts Rep Power: 2369288	I love one person unconditionally. One. __________________ "I have a respect for manners as such, they are a way of dealing with people you don't agree with or like." Margaret Mead Read me! www.leatherati.com

03-21-2010, 08:48 PM	#38
hippieflowergirl Member How Do You Identify?: ~ Preferred Pronoun?: ~ Relationship Status: ~ Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: ~ Posts: 424 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 461 Thanked 467 Times in 176 Posts Rep Power: 274206	eram quod es, eris quod sum* it took me a long time to finally fall in love. it wasnt easy to accept love for myself so i think i've always gone about finding it the wrong way and i hurt a lot of people in the process. i've loved often and fortunately i'm still friends with those i've had long term relationships with, something for which i'm grateful. but i've only fallen in love once and that was the love that taught me what it was to be loved...or to allow myself to be loved...in return. i always tried not to show weakness or ask for help. it was only when it was made clear that such revelations were expected of me that i understood that love was messy and ridiculous and sometimes confusing (but confusing only when i was getting in its way) and that it was okay that it be so. i think unconditional acceptance and forgiveness and love requires us to be flawed and to not hide that fact the way so many people do. love isnt blind. love sees every flaw and oddity and mistake and moment of jackassery...and loves because of those things...because of the messy, ridiculous, confusing, unraveled parts rather than in spite of them. "in spite of" puts one partner in a "less than" place. loving because of the struggle...loving because you can engage the struggle together...loving even when someone makes you so angry you cant see straight...that's unconditional. when love is more important than anger...that's unconditional. when love is more important than whatever false pride or moment of stupidity or lapse of judgment...that's unconditional. it doesnt mean that boundaries can be ignored or promises dont matter...it means that whatever anger or hurt or missteps there are dont have to overwhelm the reasons for loving. no one comes equipped with this stuff. it's learning, learning that no matter how crazy a choice seems or how obvious a mistake should have been you still love without thinking less of the other because of those moments. all anger is a "moment". all hurt is a moment. some moments are longer than others. but they're still just moments. if something is unhealthy or unsafe, we can accept and forgive (ourselves as well as others) and love...and then walk away. unconditional love is always possible. always. because it's a choice. choice is easy. follow through takes more work...but choice is easy. once you choose, actively, sometimes with every breath...the follow through is easier too. why would i deny myself the honor of sitting in the discomfort and pain and the heartache with the person i love the most? dont i want them to do that for me? we all want unconditional acceptance and forgiveness and love. when it comes time to step up and provide reciprocity...why should we find it so hard? it's just a choice. nothing can happen before we make the choice. "unconditional" is just a way of breathing through the moments and of knowing that there is no mistake or misstep or lapse that anyone else can make that i cant (or havent) made as well. * i was what you are, you will be what i am

03-20-2010, 01:36 PM	#24
AtLast Infamous Member How Do You Identify?: Woman Preferred Pronoun?: HER - SHE Relationship Status: Relating Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: CA & AZ I'm a Snowbird Posts: 5,408 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 11,826 Thanked 10,827 Times in 3,199 Posts Rep Power: 21474857	Yes, unconditional love exists. I did experience it as a child and give it to my own kid and he came to me via a family death. However, there are so many that have not felt this kind of love from parents and family. Sure, I pushed some limits. I think unconditional love with a relationship is possible, but not probable and shouldn't be. We all have deal-breakers that allow us to be true to ourselves and avoid abusive situations. At least, I hope we all do... marriage/partnerships are not the same as parenting and for the life of me, I don't get why some people believe unconditional love in relationships is healthy. Perhaps, the love felt will never leave (but transforms), but, if someone is not really a good match and a healthy steady-state can't be achieved, love can remain, but the relationship is not the best it can be and we all deserve the best it can be!

03-20-2010, 08:29 PM	#31
hippieflowergirl Member How Do You Identify?: ~ Preferred Pronoun?: ~ Relationship Status: ~ Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: ~ Posts: 424 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 461 Thanked 467 Times in 176 Posts Rep Power: 274206	a few years ago i had a conversation with someone so much smarter than i could ever hope to be who said he thought our job in life was to enter into certain "unconditional contracts" with the Universe, contracts whose purpose was to teach us what we needed to know. the conversation took place over several days but when it was over i was hooked on his idea. most days i suck at being part of humanity. i dont understand how it works or how to fit in. i dont always feel a connection to the contracts i chose (unconditional acceptance, unconditional forgiveness, and unconditional love) but it's not the choices themselves that make me uncomfortable. i do that all on my own by making countless mistakes. but i never feel like i can go wholly wrong if i hang on to my agreements...even if i'm hanging on by my fingernails. i know people who dont think it's possible to live unconditionally but i think they mistake "unconditional" with being a door mat and/or with altruism. but i never said living unconditionally meant someone could walk all over me and i never said i didnt get anything out of it. unconditional acceptance, forgiveness and love are the easiest things in the world. they're just choices. all of life is simple. it's the things we try to "do" rather than our efforts to just "be" that cause the confusion. and then it's easy to give up too. maybe we just need to keep choosing...not just once a week or every day...but every minute...every breath. (shrug) sorry i'm just rambling like an idiot. i'm tired. i like the freedom my three contracts give me. i like how much less complicated life became once the choices were made. the one stumbling block i run into from time to time is applying that same acceptance, forgiveness and love to myself.

03-21-2010, 08:49 AM	#34
Diva Timed Out How Do You Identify?: Diva Preferred Pronoun?: Diva Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Chez Diva Posts: 11,879 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 9,263 Thanked 17,174 Times in 5,239 Posts Rep Power: 0	I have only known 1 person in my life who could love ANYone unconditionally.....that was my Mother. I should BE so wise.

03-21-2010, 08:57 PM	#39
zannadyke Junior Member How Do You Identify?: butch, genderbender, queer, fag-boy Preferred Pronoun?: I'm flexible Relationship Status: in love with a trans-dude! Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Pennsylvania Posts: 44 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 1 Thanked 20 Times in 13 Posts Rep Power: 292429	I guess I believe in "unconditional love" to a point... For example, I will ALWAYS love my mom. I know she doesn't see eye to eye with me about many things, and will argue me to death about my lifestyle and life choices, but she is always there for me when I need her, and I know I can always count on her, just as she knows I can always count on her. With her, her love and giving comes with a price, she wants certain things in return... like things that she feels she needs to have some control over in my life, which i won't get into... but the deep down love that caring for me should I ever need it, should I ever be in trouble, should I ever be ill... that's ALWAYS there and it's there for me regarding her. I think deep down, THAT is what unconditional love is. I don't believe my mom would ever disown me based on a disagreement, nor would I disown her either. I feel the same way about my kids... they may disappoint me with choices they make in life or by saying things or other... but I will always love them no matter what. __________________ “Life is too short to spend your precious time trying to convince a person who wants to live in gloom and doom otherwise. Give lifting that person your best shot, but don’t hang around long enough for his or her bad attitude to pull you down. Instead surround yourself with optimistic people.” Zig Ziglar

03-21-2010, 10:04 PM	#40
hippieflowergirl Member How Do You Identify?: ~ Preferred Pronoun?: ~ Relationship Status: ~ Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: ~ Posts: 424 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 461 Thanked 467 Times in 176 Posts Rep Power: 274206	i think people are afraid to love unconditionally because loving unconditionally is hard...or because it sounds airyfairy and impossible. or worse...because of the inevitable pain involved in doing so. being afraid of being hurt is a cop out. of course you're going to be hurt! you're in love with a human being arent you? who the hell are we to demand that no one hurt us? how can we tell people they have to be perfect when we havent managed it yet? i cannot understand the "you hurt me so now you're not trustworthy" mentality. how anemic is the love that walks away when things get hard? before you dust off your indignation...i'm not talking about domestic violence or choices that jeopardize safety. i'm talking about the human beings who fuck up, plain and simple, (and we ALL do it) and then find themselves suddenly single because the love they were part of couldnt hold up under pressure. it's anemic. that's the only word for it. anemic. glass houses baby. glass houses. "People are afraid of themselves, of their own reality; their feelings most of all. People talk about how perfect love is, but that's bullshit. Love hurts. Feelings are disturbing. People are taught that pain is evil and dangerous. How can they deal with love if they're afraid to feel? Pain is meant to wake us up. People try to hide their pain. But they're wrong. Pain is something to carry, like a radio. You feel your strength in the experience of pain. It's all in how you carry it. That's what matters. That's honest. Give me that kind of love" Jim Morrison