Being perceived as ditzy, flaky or shallow for being femme

[iridium]

Originally Posted by Star Anise

I do like to dress up and I tend to sit more in the high femme end…

I feel like butch women don’t take me seriously, and treat me like an idiot, or dismiss me as being shallow simply for the fact that I am wearing cosmetics, and feminine clothes and (most importantly for me) having fun with my clothes!

Its important to understand when this dismissal occurs whether percieved or real . If it is before you are engaged in conversation, then perhaps the issue has more to do with signals being broadcast (I am happy.. i am depressed). If you go out alone, you are more likely to look unhappy as your true spirit is not on display. If its after engaging in conversation that the dismissal occurs then nothing you wear (as long as its appropriate) will trump what you say.

Like yourself I too go out in high femme. I sometimes get uncomfortable with the notion that no one else is dressed as such. Perhaps you feel a bit uncomfortable being the only one dressed high femme and this discomfort is being picked up by those you wish to attract. Sometimes I wish there were club nights exclusively designated to butch femme with dress codes so I don't feel self conscious.

[CherylNYC]

Is it me, or are most of the answers in this thread focusing on what the OP may have done to bring ill treatment upon herself? When I read that a woman, particularly a feminine presenting woman, is being dismissed or presumed to be stupid, I understand it to mean that plain old garden variety misogyny is at work. In our society ALL women are almost always presumed to have foggier, less disciplined minds, best suited to shopping and child rearing. When women are hyper feminine they're even more likely to be burdened with those assumptions. Unfortunately, butches can be just as infuriatingly sexist as men when they encounter a display of high femininity. This discussion reminds me of how women are told that it's their responsibility to avoid sexual assault, and if they are assaulted they must have been carrying themselves in a way that invited it.

Sure, women are often socialised into presenting ourselves as less assertive and less confident. Sure, that often means that others take us less seriously. Yes, of course when we feel more confident we're treated with more respect. BUT just being a feminine woman, regardless of our intelligence or self confidence, means that many people will privilege males over us. And sometimes butches will do the same.

[Hollylane]

Originally Posted by CherylNYC

Is it me, or are most of the answers in this thread focusing on what the OP may have done to bring ill treatment upon herself? When I read that a woman, particularly a feminine presenting woman, is being dismissed or presumed to be stupid, I understand it to mean that plain old garden variety misogyny is at work. In our society ALL women are almost always presumed to have foggier, less disciplined minds, best suited to shopping and child rearing. When women are hyper feminine they're even more likely to be burdened with those assumptions. Unfortunately, butches can be just as infuriatingly sexist as men when they encounter a display of high femininity. This discussion reminds me of how women are told that it's their responsibility to avoid sexual assault, and if they are assaulted they must have been carrying themselves in a way that invited it.

Sure, women are often socialised into presenting ourselves as less assertive and less confident. Sure, that often means that others take us less seriously. Yes, of course when we feel more confident we're treated with more respect. BUT just being a feminine woman, regardless of our intelligence or self confidence, means that many people will privilege males over us. And sometimes butches will do the same.

I agree. I was thinking the same thing as I was reading through some of the posts here. I think that there are quite a few assumptions that it must be a vibe she is giving off, which does not leave a lot of room for people being responsible for their own behaviors, or realizing that this type of thing can and does happen.

In my experience, not all butches or men, not even a majority of them, behave this way. But, I have encountered this type of misogyny in both the straight and gay community (even from gay men).

I have had a few butches/men overlook my identity, strong femme, and mistake the "femme" for weakness and/or lack of intelligence. I like to think that this is not related to how I present physically, or the manner in which I dress.

This behavior usually comes across as overbearing, but I also feel that it is rooted in the misogynistic idea, that because I am female, and assert myself in a gentle way when communicating with others (this comes from upbringing, but both of my parents are this way, so it is a learned behavior that is not related to misogyny), that I must need someone to tell me what to think, what to feel, what to do, and feel the need for their protection.