"Traditional" Masculinity in Today's Society

[little man]

i think that the changes that are being "forced" on men/masculinity are a function of social evolution. nothing remains the same forever. i'm sure that the brand of masculinity that was prevalent in the 40's would look positively sissified to men of earlier times...say the mid 19th century type of masculinity. times change and people change with them, or they perish. i think that with the advances in equality for women, men have felt less inclined to be as chivalrous as was once the norm. evolution or just pissed off? the reason doesn't matter so much as the end result. i think we are seeing a response to men not being the sole support of families, women having careers outside the home and, in general, becoming even marginally more equal to their male counterparts. i think, in part, men resent women not "needing" them for as much as they once did...although that means a lighter work load for men in general. perhaps the resentment is based in feeling less valued? (talk about your shoe on the other foot)

i was raised by my grandparents. the values they instilled in me are those of folks who grew up in a rural, less educated, depression era. i find that my standards for behavior (for myself and others) is based in those values. personally, i think women are the most magnificent creatures on the planet. being raised female, i can see a bit of both sides here...i'm not inclined to erase the first part of my life to live this part of it. i understand being undervalued, considered "less than". it has been my experience that women are some of the strongest, most formidable people there are. i don't have the resentment of women that many born men have...i lived too long in a female role to do that.

my grandmother always told me that good manners never go out of style. she was right. i was raised to be mannerly, considerate and courteous. my gender has nothing to do with exhibiting those qualities. am i masculine? ask anyone who knows me in real time. even the guys i know now think i'm a cool dude...and i'm not shy about saying i enjoy cooking or that i'm good with laundry or that i want to try my hand at quilting. i like to think that i'm just a well mannered, well rounded man.

[always2late]

little man you raise a very good point about the attributes of masculinity, and what is considered the "norm" evolving over time, and reflecting the times we live in. Thank you for your input

[Hack]

I was raised mostly by my paternal grandfather who was a five-star gentleman -- impeccable manners, impeccable taste in everything. I grew up emulating him in many ways. I open doors, hold out chairs, stand up when a girl gets up or enters a room, take off my ballcap for the national anthem, the whole deal. I like to pay the tab, but was softened up a bit last year while spending time with a European woman who found my manners horribly old-fashioned.

I was also raised around very old school Polish-Catholic uncles on the other side of the family, who were rowdy, loud, whistled at pretty girls, yet would take out anybody with a punch who disrespected their mom or their sisters.

My life is a study in dichotomy.

I've worked hard the last few years to better understand and to better communicate with women. I've learned to express myself when I am comfortable doing so, and sometimes when I am not comfortable doing so. It's really hard to get over those stoic German roots. I'm a writer by trade, and I often find it easier to discuss my feelings on paper (and sometimes in email, though I loathe it as a medium).

I think manners are taught, along with respect. Sometimes, though, we pick up bad habits of passive-aggressiveness or shutting off communication when faced with a big problem. I try very hard to treat everyone around me with kindness and respect. It's only at work that I can be an aggressive, direct person...but that seems to motivated people in that setting. I'm a nice guy, basically, and I don't like to think I am a dying breed.

Jake

[Write14u]

I hear ya, Jake. Excellent points.

I have these kinds of conversations with my roomie and good friend, who is a bio-male. He just seems so lackadaisical in this category. I mean, he is well-mannered, but it seems like he's content to just do things halfway.

I know I picked up a lot of things from my dad, who does his thing in a quiet way. But there are things I didn't learn from him. I picked up many things from a guy I knew in high school. I think my thing was a fascination with the old-school, gentlemanly behavior. There are a lot of traits associated with masculinity, but ones like those are the ones I prefer to co-opt.