What makes a Butch "Butch"

DapperButch · 04-16-2013, 05:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by psykbutch

are you saying that your girlfriend is the dominate one in the relationship? you can say that you are submissive, or have submissive tendencies, it's ok lol. own them!

Funny we just got into it yesterday over this and my girlfriend said I make her feel like more of a femme, which is upsetting to her as a butch. I'm thinking it's due to my insecurities, because the second you try to 'pin' submissiveness on me lol, my mind goes "hey now wait a minute". Who knows maybe I just don't know how to be a dom. Or maybe I am submissive, or both...its going to be a freakin enigma to me for awhile it looks like.[/QUOTE]

Is it possible you both are consciously or unconsciously looking to have the "butch-femme dance", in your relationship, even though you are two butches? It seems like you both struggle with not feeling like "the butch" in the relationship. Can't you both be butch and just have your "own dance"? What about the butch-butch dance?

My point is...get what you expect out of your head and just go with the flow...don't label it.

Good luck.

psykftm · 04-16-2013, 07:16 AM

Is it possible you both are consciously or unconsciously looking to have the "butch-femme dance", in your relationship, even though you are two butches? It seems like you both struggle with not feeling like "the butch" in the relationship. Can't you both be butch and just have your "own dance"? What about the butch-butch dance?

My point is...get what you expect out of your head and just go with the flow...don't label it.

Good luck.[/QUOTE]

That is a good point-I think maybe unconsciously we do both get into these moments of the butch-femme dance. She does not struggle with her identity at all..."I'm Dee" she says. I still really struggle with how others see me, and how they will construct me in their minds. Just the other day I had some customer say I would look better with long hair. That to me is on the list of some of the worst things a person could say to me. I haven't learned how to roll it off my shoulder yet

I think my rationality is that if I fit a stereotype first, and be accepted, then I can relax into myself later but that is likely flawed I'm thinkin lol

wahya · 04-16-2013, 08:51 AM

This is an interesting thread. I am not all that great with words I am better one on one talking.(not txting email or phone) But for me being butch I never tried to analyze myself. Being a mother & grandmother my main character trait is my protective nature. But when you meet me you know I have more masculine traits than femme. Yeah I have been mistaken for a guy plenty of times. It used to bug me but now I just chuckle or in a harmless way embarrass them. But I know they are already embarrassed but at least maybe now they will take the time with other people and pay attention to them. I love who I am and being butch is right up there with my native pride.

~ocean · 04-16-2013, 08:56 AM

birth makes a butch a butch ~ just my personal opinion ~

Chancie · 04-16-2013, 09:00 AM

My Pete is a butch because she says she's a butch.

She's my boy because I say she's my boy.

rustedrims · 04-16-2013, 09:07 AM

For me and only speaking for myself.The circumstance that makes me feel most like a Butch is being in the presents of Pretty Femmes.Being around the ladies really brings it out for me.

StrongButch · 04-16-2013, 11:10 AM

I was born butch! Its my energy.

Wolfsong · 04-17-2013, 06:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by psykbutch

Dang what a writer! lol but you brought something to mind mind which is great for me with this 'what makes a butch' topic. It would kill me for someone to call me feminine, as to why? The best I can come up with is it is not me.
I know labels suck, but since I'm working on trying to figure out who I am, I love them as descriptions.

Know what? I used to have this friend that whenever anyone ever asked her whether she was butch or not she would smile and say, "I'm not anything. I'm just me." At the time I guess you can say I didn't get it completely. The truth is I wasn't thinking about it anymore than if someone had asked her, "Why do you like that shirt?" and she replied; "I dunno. I just do."

That all changed when I started contemplating my own labels. Lord there were a lot of them. I always knew that my destiny was not to eventually transition, but I was set free when I had arrived in a place where people actually used male pronouns for me. Once that gate was open I was off through like a wolf that had been caught in a pen it's whole life. I let myself become a little of that Neanderthal asshole that everyone dislikes. *Shrugs.....learning curve.

What I would tell you is this. When I stopped looking for the perfect label I found myself. That perfect label, the perfect description for others, will stop you from being all of who you are. Don't waste time. There will be a moment when, for the very first time, you are able to look in the mirror and genuinely like the whole person looking back at you. I'm telling you the truth. That is the moment when you really start living.

Quote:

Originally Posted by psykbutch

So my question comes from this scenario as written above "the way her arm encircles my waist when we are walking through a crowd." Now if my butch girlfriend did that to me, that would be hot!

Tell her. If you are challenged to find the right words, print that post and show it to her.

Quote:

Originally Posted by psykbutch

Being in a butch-butch relationship has turned up some threats to masculinity, like in pictures, she doesn't like it when I have my arm over her shoulder, because it makes her feel less butch. Well then I feel less butch.
I'm sure this is why someone would question a butch-butch relationship, but its so worth it lol!

I don't want to say I have a submissive side. I might, but it can't be considered feminine. I wanna know how other butches feel about these tight areas (if I have described it enough)...hopefully this is all still on topic

take care

So I'm not the best person to give advice on butch-butch relationships but consider this....

What I would say is that once you become more secure in yourself some of that shit won't matter anymore. There are so many things in every day life that do not need gender assignment but we force them anyway because we feel like it what we need to have to establish our own identities.

What you are really talking about right there is this right?.....The refusal of a common gesture of love and tenderness, the feeling of belonging to and giving of one heart to another because it violates some ingrained belief of male and femaleness?

*Blinks

Quote:

Originally Posted by psykbutch

Funny we just got into it yesterday over this and my girlfriend said I make her feel like more of a femme, which is upsetting to her as a butch. I'm thinking it's due to my insecurities, because the second you try to 'pin' submissiveness on me lol, my mind goes "hey now wait a minute". Who knows maybe I just don't know how to be a dom. Or maybe I am submissive, or both...its going to be a freakin enigma to me for awhile it looks like.

Maybe I missed it someplace in your posts. Are the two of you in a BDSM relationship? Because that is where the terms Dominant and submissive come from in the way that you are using them. D/s is not for everyone nor is it a naturally progressive state from one type of relationship to another. Neither role is specific to a gender.

04-16-2013, 08:56 AM	#4
~ocean Infamous Member How Do You Identify?: femme blows a kiss off my finger tips * Preferred Pronoun?: ~ hey girl ~ Relationship Status: ~ single & content ~ Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Massachusetts ~coastal Posts: 7,905 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 22,958 Thanked 16,011 Times in 4,723 Posts Rep Power: 21474860	birth makes a butch a butch ~ just my personal opinion ~ __________________ ~ Always, ocean

04-16-2013, 09:07 AM	#6
rustedrims Member How Do You Identify?: Butch Preferred Pronoun?: she/her Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Northern Ohio close to Lake Erie and ice-cream places Posts: 445 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 3,125 Thanked 2,554 Times in 368 Posts Rep Power: 21474851	Just throwing this in there..... For me and only speaking for myself.The circumstance that makes me feel most like a Butch is being in the presents of Pretty Femmes.Being around the ladies really brings it out for me. __________________ I don't want to be perfect because if I was then I will loose the ability to learn.

04-16-2013, 11:10 AM	#7
StrongButch Member How Do You Identify?: I see the world thru a lens Preferred Pronoun?: Yes Boss Relationship Status: Chillin out with awesome women Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: San Francisco Posts: 1,376 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 4,018 Thanked 4,183 Times in 1,180 Posts Rep Power: 21474853	Butch I was born butch! Its my energy. __________________ Life is like music,so it can be played in many different styles.

04-16-2013, 07:16 AM	#2
psykftm Junior Member How Do You Identify?: FtM Preferred Pronoun?: he Relationship Status: single, healing Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: palm bay, fl Posts: 41 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 59 Thanked 145 Times in 34 Posts Rep Power: 1779618	Is it possible you both are consciously or unconsciously looking to have the "butch-femme dance", in your relationship, even though you are two butches? It seems like you both struggle with not feeling like "the butch" in the relationship. Can't you both be butch and just have your "own dance"? What about the butch-butch dance? My point is...get what you expect out of your head and just go with the flow...don't label it. Good luck.[/QUOTE] That is a good point-I think maybe unconsciously we do both get into these moments of the butch-femme dance. She does not struggle with her identity at all..."I'm Dee" she says. I still really struggle with how others see me, and how they will construct me in their minds. Just the other day I had some customer say I would look better with long hair. That to me is on the list of some of the worst things a person could say to me. I haven't learned how to roll it off my shoulder yet I think my rationality is that if I fit a stereotype first, and be accepted, then I can relax into myself later but that is likely flawed I'm thinkin lol

04-16-2013, 08:51 AM	#3
wahya Timed Out How Do You Identify?: Me Preferred Pronoun?: Me Relationship Status: im good Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 296 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 506 Thanked 857 Times in 240 Posts Rep Power: 0	This is an interesting thread. I am not all that great with words I am better one on one talking.(not txting email or phone) But for me being butch I never tried to analyze myself. Being a mother & grandmother my main character trait is my protective nature. But when you meet me you know I have more masculine traits than femme. Yeah I have been mistaken for a guy plenty of times. It used to bug me but now I just chuckle or in a harmless way embarrass them. But I know they are already embarrassed but at least maybe now they will take the time with other people and pay attention to them. I love who I am and being butch is right up there with my native pride.

04-16-2013, 09:00 AM	#5
Chancie Senior Member How Do You Identify?: queer femme-inist Relationship Status: I'm lucky. Join Date: May 2010 Location: Western Mass Posts: 3,774 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 9,518 Thanked 14,540 Times in 2,744 Posts Rep Power: 21474855	My Pete is a butch because she says she's a butch. She's my boy because I say she's my boy.