Butch Femme Planet  

Go Back   Butch Femme Planet > POLITICS, CULTURE, NEWS, MEDIA > Current Affairs/World Issues/Science And History

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-27-2013, 11:51 AM   #1
Soon
Infamous Member

How Do You Identify?:
femme
Relationship Status:
attached
 

Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: .
Posts: 6,896
Thanks: 29,046
Thanked 13,093 Times in 3,386 Posts
Rep Power: 21474858
Soon Has the BEST ReputationSoon Has the BEST ReputationSoon Has the BEST ReputationSoon Has the BEST ReputationSoon Has the BEST ReputationSoon Has the BEST ReputationSoon Has the BEST ReputationSoon Has the BEST ReputationSoon Has the BEST ReputationSoon Has the BEST ReputationSoon Has the BEST Reputation
Default Not that people's religious books should have any bearing on civil marriage BUT...

Soon is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 7 Users Say Thank You to Soon For This Useful Post:
Old 06-27-2013, 12:41 PM   #2
MsTinkerbelly
Timed Out - TOS Drama

How Do You Identify?:
...
Preferred Pronoun?:
...
 
MsTinkerbelly's Avatar
 

Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: ...
Posts: 6,573
Thanks: 30,737
Thanked 22,907 Times in 5,017 Posts
Rep Power: 0
MsTinkerbelly Has the BEST ReputationMsTinkerbelly Has the BEST ReputationMsTinkerbelly Has the BEST ReputationMsTinkerbelly Has the BEST ReputationMsTinkerbelly Has the BEST ReputationMsTinkerbelly Has the BEST ReputationMsTinkerbelly Has the BEST ReputationMsTinkerbelly Has the BEST ReputationMsTinkerbelly Has the BEST ReputationMsTinkerbelly Has the BEST ReputationMsTinkerbelly Has the BEST Reputation
Member Photo Albums
Default Quite lengthy, but worth the read...

Marty Lederman Guest

Posted Wed, June 26th, 2013 11:32 pm

Email Marty
Bio & Post Archive »

The fate of same-sex marriage in California after Perry

Back before the oral arguments in Perry, I wrote a post explaining what might happen to same-sex marriage in California if the Supreme Court were to hold that the Proposition 8 sponsors did not have standing to appeal from Judge Vaughn Walker’s judgment of August 4, 2010.

Now that that is indeed what has happened, what does it mean for the marriage rights of same-sex couples in California?

The Supreme Court concluded that the judgment of the Ninth Circuit must be vacated, and remanded the case to the court of appeals “with instructions to dismiss the appeal for lack of jurisdiction.” What about the district court judgment, however? In my previous post, I surmised that perhaps the Supreme Court would say something about the proper scope or application of the trial court’s judgment in the event the Court vacated the court of appeals’ decision. Not so: the Court majority is silent on the question of how Judge Walker’s injunction should be applied. Notably, however, in his dissenting opinion Justice Kennedy wrote that “the Court’s opinion today means that a single district court can make a decision with far-reaching effects that cannot be reviewed.”

Judge Walker’s injunction — see page 136 of his opinion — therefore remains unchanged by the Supreme Court’s decision; it is in effect the law of the case. What does this mean, as a practical matter, for same-sex marriages in California? Let’s take the relevant questions in turn:

1. When will the injunction take effect?

A: When the court of appeals lifts the stay that it imposed on the district court’s judgment. The Supreme Court’s mandate to the court of appeals will not be issued for at least 25 days. As far as I know, however, the court of appeals does not have to wait for the Supreme Court’s mandate in order to lift its stay of the trial court’s injunction. And Attorney General Harris apparently has asked the court of appeals to lift the stay as soon as possible. Therefore the trial court’s injunction will presumably go into effect on Monday, July 22d at the latest . . . and perhaps earlier.

2. Which state officials are bound by the injunction?

A: Judge Walker’s injunction reads: “Defendants in their official capacities, and all persons under the control or supervision of defendants, are permanently enjoined from applying or enforcing Article I, § 7.5 of the California Constitution.” (Section 7.5 is Proposition 8, which provides: “Only marriage between a man and a woman is valid or recognized in California.”)

The defendants who are bound by the injunction are six California officials—the County Clerks of Alameda County and Los Angeles County, the Governor, the Attorney General, the Director of the Department of Public Health & State Registrar of Vital Statistics, and the Deputy Director of Health Information & Strategic Planning for the Department of Public Health. The injunction clearly binds these six officials.

Moreover, in a memorandum dated June 3, 2013, Attorney General Harris concluded that, under California law, all California County Clerks—officers who have responsibilities to issue marriage licenses and otherwise implement state marriage laws—are “under the control or supervision” of the Director of the Department of Public Health & State Registrar of Vital Statistics. In support of this conclusion, the Attorney General relied primarily upon language in the California Supreme Court opinion in Lockyer v. City and County of San Francisco, 95 P.3d 459, 498 (Cal. 2004). I do not know enough about California law to assess whether the Attorney General’s opinion is correct that County Clerks are subject to the supervision of the Director of DPH . . . but assuming it is correct, then the injunction would also run against all California County Clerks, at least with respect to their function of issuing marriage licenses.

3. Which same-sex couples does the injunction protect?

A: Well, it obviously benefits the two couples who sued in Perry — Kris Perry and Sandy Stier, and Paul Katami and Jeff Zarrillo. They will be able to obtain marriage licenses from the defendant Clerks of Alameda and Los Angeles Counties, respectively.

What about the many other California same-sex couples who were not plaintiffs in the case? In my earlier post, I wrote that it is “not clear from the face of the injunction whether Judge Walker intended it to apply only to the defendants’ treatment of the two plaintiff couples, or whether Judge Walker instead intended to prohibit the defendants from denying marriage licenses to any same-sex couples in California.”

But in the briefing subsequent to my post, all the parties appeared to agree that Judge Walker’s injunction was intended, and is best construed, to also guarantee non-party same-sex couples the right to receive California marriage licenses. Therefore I think it’s fair to assume the injunction will be interpreted, by public officials and courts alike, to protect all same-sex couples, not limited to the four named plaintiffs. As Lyle explains, that is certainly the view of the relevant California officials, including the Governor and the State Registrar, who have advised state officials accordingly.

Did Judge Walker have the authority to issue such an injunction protecting non-parties? I don’t think he did, for the reasons I described in my previous post—primarily, that district court judges generally do not have the power to issue injunctions that protect persons other than the parties before them, absent a class action or a case in which a broader injunction is necessary to ensure that the plaintiffs receive complete relief. (On the other hand, not a single Justice on the Supreme Court uttered a word today to call into question the legality of the breadth of Judge Walker’s injunction, a fact that will certainly lend support to the counterargument that Judge Walker did not overreach in crafting the scope of the order, in the event that were to become an issue in further litigation.)

But even if I were right about that legal proposition—that is to say, even if Judge Walker’s injunction should have been limited to the protection of the plaintiffs before him—so what? That injunction nevertheless governs the case, and it will be operative, regardless of whether it should have been more tailored. And in their briefs to the Supreme Court, both the private-party challengers of Prop 8 and the City and County of San Francisco stressed that no party (no party with standing, anyway) had challenged the scope of that injunction.

Now that the injunction will finally go into effect, could there be a new challenge to the application of Judge Walker’s decision to non-party couples? If so, such a challenge presumably would come from either the named defendants (virtually inconceivable), or from a County Clerk who does not wish to issue a marriage license to a couple who were not plaintiffs in the Perry case.

My tentative view is that such a County Clerk challenge is a very unlikely prospect, for several reasons:

First, such a Clerk might be subject to the direction of the State Director of DPH as a matter of California law, and the Director might have the authority to forbid such a challenge and to direct the Clerk to issue the license. (Again, I am not sufficiently well-versed in California law to know for sure on this point.)

Second, a motion by such a County Clerk for relief from the judgment as applied to non-party couples, presumably pursuant to Rule 60 of the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure, “must be made within a reasonable time,” according to Rule 60(c)(1). And it’s now been almost three years since the court issued the injunction. On the other hand, the injunction has been stayed most of that time, which might affect whether a motion now would be “reasonable.” (Any Rule 60 mavens out there who might know more about this?) [UPDATE: Thoughts from Howard Wasserman on this and related issues.]

Third, and most importantly, why bother? A County Clerk knows that if he refuses to issue a marriage license, the couple in question could simply drive to another county to apply to a different Clerk. Moreover, such a Clerk thinking of challenging the scope of the injunction also knows that if that collateral attack were successful, the requesting couple could then bring their own constitutional lawsuit against the Clerk, and would almost certainly prevail on the merits in the district court and in the Ninth Circuit—especially in light of the Supreme Court’s decision today in Windsor. Even a successful challenge to the scope of Judge Walker’s injunction, therefore, would only (at best) delay an almost inevitable injunction against the Clerk in question. Hardly worth the candle, then.

If I’m right that no Clerk is likely to challenge the application of the injunction to non-plaintiffs, or in any event that any such challenge is unlikely to be successful in permitting the Clerk to deny license applications in the long run, the result will be that County Clerks throughout California will be legally required to issue marriage licenses to same-sex couples . . . and most or all will be willing or required to do so by July 22d at the latest. Judge Kennedy, then, will have been proven correct that “the Court’s opinion today means that a single district court can make a decision with far-reaching effects that cannot be reviewed.”

That is to say: Same-sex marriage in California is here to stay. And therefore, as of August 1, marriage equality will be a reality in the District of Columbia and thirteen states: California, Connecticut, Delaware (where a new law takes effect July 1), Iowa, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, Minnesota (where a new law takes effect August 1), New Hampshire, New York, Rhode Island (also Aug. 1), Vermont, and Washington.
MsTinkerbelly is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to MsTinkerbelly For This Useful Post:
Old 06-27-2013, 09:30 PM   #3
tara_kerrie
Member

How Do You Identify?:
Whatever you want to call us
Preferred Pronoun?:
Her, she,
Relationship Status:
Married
 
tara_kerrie's Avatar
 

Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Wherever these 18 wheels take us
Posts: 583
Thanks: 484
Thanked 1,366 Times in 441 Posts
Rep Power: 17763585
tara_kerrie Has the BEST Reputationtara_kerrie Has the BEST Reputationtara_kerrie Has the BEST Reputationtara_kerrie Has the BEST Reputationtara_kerrie Has the BEST Reputationtara_kerrie Has the BEST Reputationtara_kerrie Has the BEST Reputationtara_kerrie Has the BEST Reputationtara_kerrie Has the BEST Reputationtara_kerrie Has the BEST Reputationtara_kerrie Has the BEST Reputation
Default

A group called Arkansans for Equality submitted paperwork to the Attorney General to see if the paperwork is legal so they can start gathering signatures to have an ammendment to overturn the ban on gay marriage on the ballot next year.

I think i explained that right. If i misunderstood i hope that Medusa or someone will correct me.
tara_kerrie is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to tara_kerrie For This Useful Post:
Old 06-28-2013, 07:57 AM   #4
MsTinkerbelly
Timed Out - TOS Drama

How Do You Identify?:
...
Preferred Pronoun?:
...
 
MsTinkerbelly's Avatar
 

Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: ...
Posts: 6,573
Thanks: 30,737
Thanked 22,907 Times in 5,017 Posts
Rep Power: 0
MsTinkerbelly Has the BEST ReputationMsTinkerbelly Has the BEST ReputationMsTinkerbelly Has the BEST ReputationMsTinkerbelly Has the BEST ReputationMsTinkerbelly Has the BEST ReputationMsTinkerbelly Has the BEST ReputationMsTinkerbelly Has the BEST ReputationMsTinkerbelly Has the BEST ReputationMsTinkerbelly Has the BEST ReputationMsTinkerbelly Has the BEST ReputationMsTinkerbelly Has the BEST Reputation
Member Photo Albums
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kerrie View Post
A group called Arkansans for Equality submitted paperwork to the Attorney General to see if the paperwork is legal so they can start gathering signatures to have an ammendment to overturn the ban on gay marriage on the ballot next year.

I think i explained that right. If i misunderstood i hope that Medusa or someone will correct me.
Great news!
MsTinkerbelly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2013, 10:08 AM   #5
MsTinkerbelly
Timed Out - TOS Drama

How Do You Identify?:
...
Preferred Pronoun?:
...
 
MsTinkerbelly's Avatar
 

Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: ...
Posts: 6,573
Thanks: 30,737
Thanked 22,907 Times in 5,017 Posts
Rep Power: 0
MsTinkerbelly Has the BEST ReputationMsTinkerbelly Has the BEST ReputationMsTinkerbelly Has the BEST ReputationMsTinkerbelly Has the BEST ReputationMsTinkerbelly Has the BEST ReputationMsTinkerbelly Has the BEST ReputationMsTinkerbelly Has the BEST ReputationMsTinkerbelly Has the BEST ReputationMsTinkerbelly Has the BEST ReputationMsTinkerbelly Has the BEST ReputationMsTinkerbelly Has the BEST Reputation
Member Photo Albums
Default Arkansas


Arkansas reacts to same-sex marriage ruling


8:17 PM, Jun 26, 2013

Lisa Hutson



LITTLE ROCK, Ark. (KTHV) - The U.S. Supreme Court made two historical rulings regarding same-sex marriage Wednesday. Legally married same-sex couples will now be able to receive the same federal benefits reserved only for heterosexual couples.

Arkansas defined marriage as between one man and one woman back in 2004, and while today's decision doesn't change that, some advocates say it fueled the fire to make same-sex marriages legal in the natural state.

"We've got support now from the Supreme Court, at least 5 of them, that marriage equality should happen or at least they shouldn't be denied federal benefits. I think that says something. We are moving forward as a country," said Trey Weir, co-founder of the Arkansas Initiative for Marriage Equality.

Wednesday's decision will affect those same-sex couples legally married in one of the 10 states that recognize them, but it will not affect those living here in Arkansas.

"Military benefits for same-sex spouses, social security survivor benefits, just a whole long list of benefits that are now available," said Weir.

"A positive aspect to this ruling is that it does not create a constitutional basis for same-sex marriage itself. Now it just gives the benefits--the federal benefits--to same sex couples," added Sarah Bean with Arkansas Family Council.

Beans said while the Supreme Court struck down the Defense of Marriage Act, it's decision not to rule on Proposition 8 shows the states have all the power when it comes to same-sex marriage.

"This is a state's decision. It's the state's rights. The states need to decide. I believe in 38 or 39 states, those states have made the decision that marriage should be between one man and one woman, and I'm glad the federal government is going to honor that. That is exactly what needs to happen," explained Bean.

But, Weir believes the attitudes towards same-sex couples are changing and hopes Arkansas' law will too.

"I think people are starting to understand that it's going to happen. People are bringing it to the dinner table. They are talking about it, and hopefully some hearts and minds will be changed," Weir concluded.

Weir also said his team has drafted a bill to legalize same-sex marriage in Arkansas and plans to submit it to the Attorney General's office. They hope to get 200,000 signatures in order to get the measure on the 2016 ballot.

Arkansas' congressmen and senators say they still support the amendment Arkansas voters approved in 2004 defining marriage as between a man and a woman
MsTinkerbelly is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to MsTinkerbelly For This Useful Post:
Old 06-28-2013, 12:03 PM   #6
tara_kerrie
Member

How Do You Identify?:
Whatever you want to call us
Preferred Pronoun?:
Her, she,
Relationship Status:
Married
 
tara_kerrie's Avatar
 

Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Wherever these 18 wheels take us
Posts: 583
Thanks: 484
Thanked 1,366 Times in 441 Posts
Rep Power: 17763585
tara_kerrie Has the BEST Reputationtara_kerrie Has the BEST Reputationtara_kerrie Has the BEST Reputationtara_kerrie Has the BEST Reputationtara_kerrie Has the BEST Reputationtara_kerrie Has the BEST Reputationtara_kerrie Has the BEST Reputationtara_kerrie Has the BEST Reputationtara_kerrie Has the BEST Reputationtara_kerrie Has the BEST Reputationtara_kerrie Has the BEST Reputation
Default

http://www.fox16.com/mediacenter/loc...navCatId=19792
tara_kerrie is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:06 PM.


ButchFemmePlanet.com
All information copyright of BFP 2018