Public Displays of Affection (PDA)

[Heavenleahangel]

Excellent topic and a lot to think about. I am a femme and I like PDA's-tastefully done of course. I am a lady and will be treated as such, so no distasteful groping and tongue swapping like a couple of sex crazed maniacs, but I love holding hands, kissing hello and goodbye, walking with a hand on the small of a back, etc.

I do agree to some extent about the butches being called out more often than the femmes and treated differently when it comes down to it. Being raised in the Bible belt of the south, especially in my day, it was a big taboo for PDA's for heterosexuals, let alone to be gay.

We have all heard and read the stories about what happened to our butch brothers and fore-fathers back in the day. I applaud them for standing their ground and not backing down even through the beatings and humiliation. I am sure they dreamed of the day of dressing they way they wanted and not having to be accosted by police.

I am a femme that will not back down to someone else who doesn't like seeing me with my partner or family in public. I have been told too many times I am "too hard headed" to just bite my tongue. I won't be bullied...period. I am thankful to be living in the times I am in now, but I am also old enough to remember the days of persecution and fear. I hope one day we will be totally accepted. Until then, I will continue to fight for equal rights and treatment.

[rockstar lover]

I think it's a personal preference based on past experience and comfort level. I identify as butch and I have no issues at all showing PDA's. Luckily I've never experienced any negativity or backlash because of it. I don't do it to piss people off, prove a point, or to make some kind of political statement. I do it because I'm just a very loving and affectionate person. I want the woman I'm with to feel adored and to know that I'm proud to be by her side!

[stargazingboi]

Although, I don't think its a gender thing, I do think its a past experience thing for most folks. Therefore, it may appear that more of butch/TG/FTM avoiding PDA.

From my own experience I have witnessed and lived through more issues being who I am and how I express myself than the femmes I have known in my life time. Like some others, I too was raised in a time of beatings.. name calling...and death threats for anyone who was remotely perceived as gay (whether true or not mind you).

So, I tend to be more conservative with my PDA. However, I am not against it and I don't push my partner away when she wants to show PDA...nor do I get mad at folks that show it around me.

[CherylNYC]

I'm not butch so I can only answer from my own perspective as a tough, combative femme. Many years ago, long before I knew myself better, I presented more androgynously and had a few femme-ish girlfriends. Once I was busy kissing one of those long-ago, somewhat femme-er than me girlfriends goodbye at the subway when a nasty dude yelled something very threatening at us. I promptly gave him the finger with a hand just freed from embracing the gf. I did NOT stop kissing her. A few busy NYers rushing for the subway snickered. At the stupid, nasty dude. I was fully prepared for the physical altercation that never happened.

There's no way to know exactly why I got away with that one. It could have just been that we're New Yorkers and it was rush hour, but I thought then, and am more sure now, that if I had looked more traditionally butch I would have faced a far more hostile audience. We were young, white, long haired girls, so we had tremendous privilege. Using my acknowledged privilege to challenge bigots made me feel really powerful. Yes, I just wanted to kiss my gf goodbye at the subway like anyone else, but it added frisson to do it AND say F-YOU to a bigot.

I understand that it's very different outside of bigger cities, and particularly outside of THIS big city, but even in more remote areas PDA is a lot less shocking for many these days because of TV. When the above incident happened the number of same-sex PDA events that had been portrayed on TV were so small that we all knew them and could discuss them in one short, critical conversation.

It's likely that many of us are still behaving in ways that haven't changed with our changing environments. If we were beaten up for PDA in our youth, or taught that a beating was likely, that would have had a lasting influence.

Do I think that butches have had to deal with the actual beatings in a way that I haven't? HELL yeah. And I honour them for it.

[thedivahrrrself]

I love to hold hands with my partner, put my arm around them, maybe steal a quick kiss, but not all the time. I am affectionate, and I don't hide who I am, in public or anywhere else, because I am not ashamed.

However, some people feel the need to hang all over each other and make out in public, and I find that distasteful, whether you are straight or gay.

As a femme, I can't speak to what is more prevalent among butches, but I have experienced backlash for holding hands in public, and in my experience, it's usually directed at the couple, not just one member of it. I don't mind being harassed for being with the person I love - I came out in the BFE of rural Oklahoma - those fuckers don't scare me.

[MsTinkerbelly]

I am much more likely to initiate a PDA, just because like others here I have never been beaten or harassed for just being me. My wife is getting more comfortable with it all the time, and I think that's because it's with me.

There are few people who would say anything to me or to us once they get a look at my expression...even when not angry, I have a go to Hell/ don't fuck with me look about me which most people would never test.

LOL smart folks

[~baby~doll~]

i can't answer from the butch point of view as i am femme, i will say this is personal preference. It is very much up to the people involved and how each P/partner feels.

[laruss]

Originally Posted by The_Lady_Snow

I think it's an individual choice, not a gender or gender presentation choice. Do you live in an area where being gay is a big deal?

I live in Canada in a big City, it has never been an issue for me, nor do I think it should be.

Originally Posted by stargazingboi

Although, I don't think its a gender thing, I do think its a past experience thing for most folks. Therefore, it may appear that more of butch/TG/FTM avoiding PDA.

I agree, that it is a past experience thing, so does that mean that more butches are harassed more then the femmes? I know I have never been.

Originally Posted by thedivahrrrself

[COLOR="Indigo"] However, some people feel the need to hang all over each other and make out in public, and I find that distasteful, whether you are straight or gay.
COLOR]

I agree, no one needs that.


I think it is sad how much our society has moved away from touch in all regards. Any pda, teacher/student, step parent/step child, father/son, homeless/anyone and so much more. We attach such a sexual connotation to touch and touch is so important for our emotional/spiritual/physical health.

We are so immune to violence that we don't flinch at that but a gay couple holding hands will send some over the edge. What is wrong with this picture? Everything.

[The_Lady_Snow]

I think it's cultural as well, Latinos are a touchy bunch, my mother never was but other members of my family are, there is hugging, kissing and always a hand or a touch somewhere. I am like that with most of my chosen family and they back, all my chosen family have some sort of need for *touch* it's always been part of my life. Some American people are on the more reserved side, I say American because I've been around other cultures that are just as touchy as we are (Latinos). I dunno, I do know that as a queer I watch more who I touch and how outside of the circles I mentioned above. Once some folks (not all) catch on that you aren't hetero like them, then either they get weird, the vibe gets weird, or they flat out think a touch means you are interested or that you are being oogie gay... I dunno that's a thought.

[~baby~doll~]

Originally Posted by The_Lady_Snow

I think it's cultural as well, Latinos are a touchy bunch, my mother never was but other members of my family are, there is hugging, kissing and always a hand or a touch somewhere. I am like that with most of my chosen family and they back, all my chosen family have some sort of need for *touch* it's always been part of my life. Some American people are on the more reserved side, I say American because I've been around other cultures that are just as touchy as we are (Latinos). I dunno, I do know that as a queer I watch more who I touch and how outside of the circles I mentioned above. Once some folks (not all) catch on that you aren't hetero like them, then either they get weird, the vibe gets weird, or they flat out think a touch means you are interested or that you are being oogie gay... I dunno that's a thought.

In the bold. Because of where i have lived i have never paid much attention to the hetero-normative acceptance levels since the mid 70's. (In some areas it was best to be more discreet for safety sake, but not hidden ) i do not generally care what the regulation populous thinks. They can get weird or whatever they like.
i totally agree with you that some cultures touch more than others. That's why this question is so personal, in fact it is impossible to give a definitive response. In O/our family we have different degrees of comfort zones.

[stargazingboi]

Originally Posted by laruss

I agree, that it is a past experience thing, so does that mean that more butches are harassed more then the femmes? I know I have never been.

Hmm slippery slop isn't it. Let me respond like this...that I think its different. Femme's deal with their own type of harassment. I can not speak for others...merely from my own experiences and from what I have seen, was told, and/or witnessed.

Since, I have not lived a femme life...I can not say that femme's are less likely to be harassed. I just think its different. Femme's that I have known in the past have commented about being able to "hide" when they needed to..so they could remain "safe." Where as for those who where butch/TG/ FTM safety was a major issue because they (me included) could not hide...the way we dressed..walked..talked...acted drew the attention of those one would not wish to draw attention from.

Back in my day beatings happened often outside of clubs...walking down the streets, outside of homes, lost jobs for many...comments thrown no matter the place..etc.

Even though times have changed these things haven't gone away..culture is a huge part of it. Depending on where you live...the religions that surround you...the age groups...the mentality of the people you deal with daily will all effect how one response in the future (no matter what it is).

Our past will either make us shy away...or give us the F*** you mentality...or for some (like me) it depends on my mood and my surroundings as to how I respond in general.

I have dealt with watching friends get hurt and killed...I have myself been attacked physically and verbally for who I am. So, now I look around..see what I am dealing with...assess the safety and think about those I am with, then deal with it in the best interest of my family.

If my partner is with me and/or the kids..then their safety comes first and for most. So, my pride and F*** you attitude needs to be placed aside.

[SleepyButch]

I am very affectionate by nature. I love holding hands, having My arms around her, or My hand on the small of her back. I will also kiss/hug in public in a tasteful way. I do feel comfortable doing so but I still get worried at times depending on the crowd and where I am geographically.

When I lived in MN, I never thought twice about it. I can't remember ever getting a negative comment from anyone. When I lived in OK over 10 years ago, it was something I would not do for fear of My safety, whether actual or believed. It was something to think about.

Now that I'm back here in OK, I have been more openly affectionate but I do keep an eye on My surroundings no matter where I am. I was recently visiting My gf in Pittsburgh and we were walking along the river hand in hand. It was a very busy place and I felt comfortable until we were coming up on a boat full of about six guys who you could tell were drinking. I asked her if she thought it was safe for us to continue holding hands and she said yes. So we did and thankfully nothing happened.

Sometimes I think I worry too much but I try not to let it stop Me when I want to be affectionate. I'm just a little more cautious depending on which part of the country I am in.

Oh... I typically check with the other person to make sure they are okay with PDA before I go smacking My lips on them or holding their hand.

[DMW]

Originally Posted by stargazingboi

So, now I look around..see what I am dealing with...assess the safety and think about those I am with, then deal with it in the best interest of my family.

If my partner is with me and/or the kids..then their safety comes first and for most. So, my pride and F*** you attitude needs to be placed aside.

I really like and agree with what you shared. That is why I shared. Instinctually, I think it is harder to turn the other cheek and walk on. But, when I look at the big picture, tomorrow is more important. That's a win.