Child Brides - Tradition or State Sanctioned Rape?

Andrew, Jr. · 04-10-2010, 09:57 AM

Personally, I think of child brides as rape victims - it really bothers me, but that is because of my culture, not theirs. It is like the Japanese women who want to be geisha's, and their families hand them over to a "house" for being raised.

I have a very good friend of mine who traveled to Japan after he graduated from Yale. He felt that he needed to be involved with a missionary. In the end he returned back to the states. His involvement was with trying to stop child brides and their tradition of geisha's and training. It failed. It is that culture, and that tradition. Nobody or a group or whatever can intervene and stop something that is cultural or traditional to that area. It is what it is. No matter if we like it or not. Anyway the US is hung up on sex as it is.

Lynn · 04-10-2010, 10:01 AM

I hear you, Andrew.

I respect your friend's desire to change the system. His failure to do so, however, doesn't mean that he wasn't doing the right thing. Marrying off children, who suffer physically and mentally, is wrong. I think objecting to children having sex with grown men is not a cultural "hang up," but a matter of right vs. wrong.

Andrew, Jr. · 04-10-2010, 10:18 AM

Lynn,

Yes, I agree. He was and still is quite involved with that mission. He and his wife adopted 2 children from Japan since then. It has been eye-opening as to what he has shared with me. He is a very good man.

SuperFemme · 04-10-2010, 10:24 AM

I think the biggest misconception about Geisha is that they have sex. They do not. In a country as steeped in tradition as Japan, the Geisha are the Matriarchs.

Corkey · 04-10-2010, 02:04 PM

It's a explicitly hypocritical of the US based culture to try to tell another culture what they can and can not practice. Anyone remember the children of Native America and how their culture was changed to match what white americia wanted them to be. Massive failure.

Personally for me it would be rape, abuse, and not acceptable. But I don't live there, I wasn't raised in their culture to be able to speak to the issue (for) them. My sunglasses aren't rose tinted, our own history is full of this patriarchy.

Rufusboi · 04-10-2010, 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Corkey

It's a explicitly hypocritical of the US based culture to try to tell another culture what they can and can not practice. Anyone remember the children of Native America and how their culture was changed to match what white americia wanted them to be. Massive failure.

Personally for me it would be rape, abuse, and not acceptable. But I don't live there, I wasn't raised in their culture to be able to speak to the issue (for) them. My sunglasses aren't rose tinted, our own history is full of this patriarchy.

On the one hand I think you are right that we have to be careful about one culture telling another culture what they can and cannot do. On the other hand their are many women and girls fighting this tradition. Is it their fight only and we should just butt out and watch from the sidelines?

For me, a 10 or 12 year having sex with an adult male isn't just rape it is legal pedophilia. I can't imagine why an adult man would want to have sex with a 10 year old child.

I often think it is easy to call something like this tradition in order to get other countries to back off. Yet it seems that many of these "traditions" seem to hurt women and girls both physcially and psychologically.

I can't even think of one tradition that negatively impacts the physical, sexual, mental, and emotional health of boys and men on a wide reaching cultural level. Perhaps there are/were some but nothing is coming to mind right now.

Why are child brides almost always female married to adult males? Why are girls in FLDS communities married at super young ages but not the boys. What age are the boys generally married at come to think of it. I don't recall ever reading anything about this? Would we view this differently if a 15 year old girl were married to a 15 year old boy rather than a man in his 40s, 50s, or 60s? What does a girl of 15 think about being married to a man in his 50s. Has anyone even asked her?

Why is genital multilation performed on young girls but not young boys in the countries that habitually practice FGM? A lot of this is not so much rooted in cultural and religious traditions but in attitudes toward women, women's bodies, sex, ownership, ecomomics, defintions of chastity, and reproduction.

Rufus

Corkey · 04-10-2010, 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rufusboi

On the one hand I think you are right that we have to be careful about one culture telling another culture what they can and cannot do. On the other hand their are many women and girls fighting this tradition. Is it their fight only and we should just butt out and watch from the sidelines?

For me, a 10 or 12 year having sex with an adult male isn't just rape it is legal pedophilia. I can't imagine why an adult man would want to have sex with a 10 year old child.

I often think it is easy to call something like this tradition in order to get other countries to back off. Yet it seems that many of these "traditions" seem to hurt women and girls both physcially and psychologically.

I can't even think of one tradition that impacts the physical, sexual, mental, and emotional health of boys and men on a wide reaching cultural level. Perhaps there are/were some but nothing is coming to mind right now.

Rufus

I will support the women and children's right to choose, not sit idly by and watch it happen. In the end it still a matter of their culture, how I see it doesn't concern the men who keep this alive. If it did it would have stopped eons ago. I don't know where we keep coming up with our way is always better than another cultures. We as an americian society can't even stop this on our own shores. I have a healthy respect for women and children who can change their societies from their view point. It still isn't up to me to interject my opinion on how they comport themselves. These are my thoughts not arguing with you.

BornBronson · 04-10-2010, 02:27 PM

Well,it was sad to read about her death.Poor child,she had to marry a monster.Shame on her parents for allowing it too.

Some girls in this country just have sex out of wedlock,get pregnant,and raise a fatherless child.

I don't know which is worse for young girls in this world.

But who said this was ever a nice world,especially if you're born a girl.

04-10-2010, 10:01 AM	#2
Lynn Member How Do You Identify?: Unabashed Feminine Lesbian Preferred Pronoun?: Her, She Relationship Status: Married! Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Upstate NY Posts: 689 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 1,499 Thanked 2,413 Times in 504 Posts Rep Power: 9668975	I hear you, Andrew. I respect your friend's desire to change the system. His failure to do so, however, doesn't mean that he wasn't doing the right thing. Marrying off children, who suffer physically and mentally, is wrong. I think objecting to children having sex with grown men is not a cultural "hang up," but a matter of right vs. wrong. __________________ In the flush of love's light we dare be brave And suddenly we see that love costs all we are and will ever be. Yet it is only love which sets us free. Maya Angelou Wedding Photos: https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?...1&l=22b092b98c

04-10-2010, 02:04 PM	#5
Corkey Infamous Member How Do You Identify?: Human Preferred Pronoun?: He Relationship Status: Very Married Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Where I want to be Posts: 8,155 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 47,491 Thanked 29,268 Times in 6,637 Posts Rep Power: 21474859	It's a explicitly hypocritical of the US based culture to try to tell another culture what they can and can not practice. Anyone remember the children of Native America and how their culture was changed to match what white americia wanted them to be. Massive failure. Personally for me it would be rape, abuse, and not acceptable. But I don't live there, I wasn't raised in their culture to be able to speak to the issue (for) them. My sunglasses aren't rose tinted, our own history is full of this patriarchy. __________________ "Many proposals have been made to us to adopt your laws, your religion, your manners and your customs. We would be better pleased with beholding the good effects of these doctrines in your own practices, than with hearing you talk about them". ~Old Tassel, Chief of the Tsalagi (Cherokee)

04-10-2010, 09:57 AM	#1
Andrew, Jr. Timed Out How Do You Identify?: Me Preferred Pronoun?: He Relationship Status: Unavailable Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Over the Rainbow in a House Posts: 5,072 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 16,004 Thanked 5,249 Times in 2,216 Posts Rep Power: 0	Personally, I think of child brides as rape victims - it really bothers me, but that is because of my culture, not theirs. It is like the Japanese women who want to be geisha's, and their families hand them over to a "house" for being raised. I have a very good friend of mine who traveled to Japan after he graduated from Yale. He felt that he needed to be involved with a missionary. In the end he returned back to the states. His involvement was with trying to stop child brides and their tradition of geisha's and training. It failed. It is that culture, and that tradition. Nobody or a group or whatever can intervene and stop something that is cultural or traditional to that area. It is what it is. No matter if we like it or not. Anyway the US is hung up on sex as it is.

04-10-2010, 10:18 AM	#3
Andrew, Jr. Timed Out How Do You Identify?: Me Preferred Pronoun?: He Relationship Status: Unavailable Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Over the Rainbow in a House Posts: 5,072 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 16,004 Thanked 5,249 Times in 2,216 Posts Rep Power: 0	Lynn, Yes, I agree. He was and still is quite involved with that mission. He and his wife adopted 2 children from Japan since then. It has been eye-opening as to what he has shared with me. He is a very good man.

04-10-2010, 10:24 AM	#4
SuperFemme Timed Out How Do You Identify?: Permanently Banned 10/24/2010 Preferred Pronoun?: She. Relationship Status: Married (one of 18,000) Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Atascadero, CA Posts: 4,933 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 2,309 Thanked 7,108 Times in 2,327 Posts Rep Power: 0	I think the biggest misconception about Geisha is that they have sex. They do not. In a country as steeped in tradition as Japan, the Geisha are the Matriarchs.

04-10-2010, 02:27 PM	#8
BornBronson Timed Out How Do You Identify?: Permanently banned 7/2010 Preferred Pronoun?: Straight Butch Woman Relationship Status: Nice Tie Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: In Love Posts: 177 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 24 Thanked 139 Times in 82 Posts Rep Power: 0	Well,it was sad to read about her death.Poor child,she had to marry a monster.Shame on her parents for allowing it too. Some girls in this country just have sex out of wedlock,get pregnant,and raise a fatherless child. I don't know which is worse for young girls in this world. But who said this was ever a nice world,especially if you're born a girl.