Warning Signs of Abusive Relationships

[Nic]

Originally Posted by Nic

Been doing a lot of self education recently. Can't tell you how many times I've heard this in the last few months. Every group of survivors I meet has had to do battle with an ex who spouted the "She/he done me wrong" and "I was so misunderstood" story. There are a lot of people who tell that story but they seem to fall into a couple of predictable categories: folks who are really wounded and can't seem to move on from that pain and folks who need you to see them as worthy of sympathy in order to gain access to you.

I'm in no way blaming people for being victims of emotional or physical violence but there's another distinction that needs to be made here. A couple of others have touched on it. Just want to suss it out a bit more and say that one of the things that strikes me as insidious in the abuse/abuser/onlooker triangle is the expectation (by onlookers) that abuse victims never engage in any passive aggressive or manipulative behavior in order to be deserving of support from outside the abusive relationship. That holier than thou POV penalizes the abused person and generally works to the abuser's advantage. It's as if the victims are required to show twice as much restraint or have double the healthy, emotional outlook when compared to their abuser or anyone else for that matter. Example: it's not uncommon for folks who are being or have been abused to be passive aggressive or manipulative because they have no relationship with having their needs met any other way. Constantly being belittled and shamed somehow will make a person stop (or never start) asking for what they need in a straightforward way. If you're taught that your voice doesn't matter or your needs don't mean anything you're eventually going stop walking the healthy line from A to B and use more circuitous route to get your needs seen to. Inevitably an onlooker sees that behavior and wrongly attributes negative intention to it rather than labeling it the survival behavior that it is. Suddenly it's the abused person who's the "bad" one in the relationship and the abuser starts to benefit from that opinion, even counts on it to reinforce the idea that they're working hard and just trying their best to keep things together under the "burden" of their victim's passive aggressive behavior. You see evidence that it works in the sympathy they gain from friends and family members. Even more powerful than what they gain from others is the way they can use the victim's survivor dysfunction against them to further undermine that person's self esteem and create more self doubt. The victim gets cast in the "emotionally unstable" role making the abuser the one who's "worthy" of sympathy from onlookers and even from the victim him/herself! Of course the abuser has temper outbursts! Just look at what the poor guy/gal has to deal with! Pretty neat trick.

We participate in reinforcing the facade of abusers if we spend any time shaking our heads at victims who "dare" to choose anything but completely straightforward, healthy, well adjusted, even tempered behavior in order to get their needs met or the work of a relationship done. We add insult to injury by shaking our heads over them when we discover that they didn't leave at the very first sign of abuse. We pretty much demand that they be better than the abuser and, sometimes, better than we are ourselves. Everyone is passive aggressive or manipulative at one time or another. Difference between abusive behavior and survivor behavior is how and why manipulation is used. Tactics that undermine another person's sense of self or self respect falls into the abuse category to me.

Someone asked me for clarification of my statements (in bold and red above). Mockery doesn't translate well to the screen.

I was being sarcastic about abusers who are skilled at misdirection. Onlookers occasionally discover that they felt sympathy for (later revealed) abusers and excused an abusers displays of temper or behavior because the victim in that case displayed emotions that seemed out of context or behavior that was attributed to emotional instability.

Abusers are good at misdirection. This is especially important if they come to the attention of normal thinking folks might. A victim who has the rug pulled out from under him or her often enough may begin to feel unstable and confused and act so when it's no longer possible to keep a lid on so much stress. The abuser in this case has to convince everyone that up is down and left is right. Their ability to keep a victim in a constant state of stress and the onlooker constantly supplied with "reasonable" explanations can often be integral to their facade. If the abused person is unable to rein in emotional upset and feelings of chaos and happens to behave in a way that gets the attention of an onlooker or is uncomfortable to an onlooker the abuser has to be good at misdirection (i.e.:redirecting blame and judgement from themselves onto the abused). Onlookers often find themselves excusing what seems like controlling or red flag behavior on the part of the suspected abuser by saying "Of course he/she is behaving that way. Look at the emotional behavior he/she has to deal with in their partner/child/friend/etc." It's one of the ways abusers maintain or restore their power. They involve onlookers by drawing them into the lie with "reasonable" explanations and sympathy ploys. Onlooker support is one of the best ways to keep an abuse victim off balance. If a reasonable person is convinced to be sympathetic to the "plight" of an abuser whose partner appears emotionally unstable (because of the difficulty of maintaining the appearance of normalcy and the stress of constant anxiety/fear and shifting rules or standards of behavior) the abuse victim is doubly penalized. Not only do they have the abuser to deal with but now the onlooker(s) have been fooled into being sympathetic toward the abuser rather than being people of safety to whom a victim can turn for help.

[TruTexan]

Originally Posted by Nic

Someone asked me for clarification of my statements (in bold and red above). Mockery doesn't translate well to the screen.

I was being sarcastic about abusers who are skilled at misdirection. Onlookers occasionally discover that they felt sympathy for (later revealed) abusers and excused an abusers displays of temper or behavior because the victim in that case displayed emotions that seemed out of context or behavior that was attributed to emotional instability.

Abusers are good at misdirection. This is especially important if they come to the attention of normal thinking folks might. A victim who has the rug pulled out from under him or her often enough may begin to feel unstable and confused and act so when it's no longer possible to keep a lid on so much stress. The abuser in this case has to convince everyone that up is down and left is right. Their ability to keep a victim in a constant state of stress and the onlooker constantly supplied with "reasonable" explanations can often be integral to their facade. If the abused person is unable to rein in emotional upset and feelings of chaos and happens to behave in a way that gets the attention of an onlooker or is uncomfortable to an onlooker the abuser has to be good at misdirection (i.e.:redirecting blame and judgement from themselves onto the abused). Onlookers often find themselves excusing what seems like controlling or red flag behavior on the part of the suspected abuser by saying "Of course he/she is behaving that way. Look at the emotional behavior he/she has to deal with in their partner/child/friend/etc." It's one of the ways abusers maintain or restore their power. They involve onlookers by drawing them into the lie with "reasonable" explanations and sympathy ploys. Onlooker support is one of the best ways to keep an abuse victim off balance. If a reasonable person is convinced to be sympathetic to the "plight" of an abuser whose partner appears emotionally unstable (because of the difficulty of maintaining the appearance of normalcy and the stress of constant anxiety/fear and shifting rules or standards of behavior) the abuse victim is doubly penalized. Not only do they have the abuser to deal with but now the onlooker(s) have been fooled into being sympathetic toward the abuser rather than being people of safety to whom a victim can turn for help.

Thanks for your clarification, I can totally understand now. OMG! I've lived it but didn't know how to put it into words. Thank you so much you have no idea how much this has helped me to feel validated about myself in ways you will never know or some will never understand but YOU got it right on the nail head. Thank you NIC. Please keep posting here.

[Girl_On_Fire]

The term I think some are looking for is "Gaslighting". "Gaslight" is a film that came out in 1944 starring Ingrid Bergman and it features a husband who does little things to his wife over a period of time to try to make her think she is insane. Eventually, after all the stress compounds, she begins to have small public breakdowns throughout the movie, further reinforcing the belief her husband has tried to perpetuate; that his wife is insane. (His entire reasoning for doing this is to get her locked up and inherit her fortune).

Some people just do this for fun. Some because they honestly don't know any better and it's simply a pattern from their childhood. Since that movie, a psychological term came about called 'gaslighting' in which one partner slowly and methodically picks apart at the sanity of another by implanting false information and misdirecting to make the other person questions themselves so much, they doubt their own sanity. This makes one of the partner even more vulnerable and easy to control. When they finally blow up or have a breakdown, the abuser can say, "See, I told you she was nuts." It's the most isolating, horrible, mentally-torturing feeling on earth. I've been through it.

**

I also want to address the "abuser versus victim" topic. I've only once considered myself a victim. I don't anymore. I'm somebody who unfortunately gets into a pattern of abusive relationships. I'm no innocent angel either. However, I can say with complete honesty that I have never in my life gone out of my way to harm somebody in a premeditated fashion. Have I reacted out of anger, fear, frustration or confusion in the moment? Yes. Absolutely. Has my inability read and understand social cues hurt people indirectly without my being aware of it? Yes. Absolutely. And once I figured out what I had been doing, it hit me like a ton of bricks and I spent several months tracking people down to apologize to them. (Which, unfortunately, got me back together with my ex).

I think there is something to be said about intent. (Yes, it's my favorite word.) An abuser, in my opinion, is someone who clearly knows they are physically or psychologically harming another. Once they find out from their partner that they are being hurtful, they purposefully use that information to continue to hurt their partner. That, in my opinion, is the definition of an abuser.

Someone who has a mental/developmental disorder and has a temper that they have difficulty controlling or difficulty understanding social expectations may display abusive behavior but may not, in fact, be an abuser. Someone who comes from an abusive background and knows no other way to behave may exhibit abusive behavior but may not be an abuser if they had therapy and/or education about more appropriate behavior.

I agree that two people just may be a bad fit for each other. They bring out the worse in each other but when they are with other people, their behavior and conduct would be considered within the norm. Every case is different. There are always grey areas.

[Redsunflower]

This thread has been very sad and difficult for me to read but a very worthwhile conversation to have. I've appreciated everyone's honesty so much, and had a few memories of my own stirred up.

It's also got me thinking about why abuse can be so difficult to identify. There's been a lot written about power and control and certainly, abusers try to take these things from their partners. Hugs to everyone who has experienced this.

I believe that part of the difficulty is that all relationships have an element of power and control in them. We are all entitled to be in charge of our own lives, then when we get close to someone, there needs to be some compromise. You have someone else to consider. Your partner may want you to do things you don't particularly want to, like visiting their relatives at Christmas, for example. You will also have some expectations of them. Where one of you doesn't fulfil expectations, then there will be conflict. And conflict can be scary for anyone.

When an abuser gets going this conflict can arise at any time, about anything, out of something or nothing, and in some ways that's easier to identify. But in the daily stuff of life, it can be more tricky. How does your partner cope with a little disappointment? Do they talk to you about feeling let down? Are you allowed to make amends for that? Do you know you're still cared for? Do they huff for a couple of hours and get over it? Do they stop speaking to you for a couple of days? Do they withhold love, affection, sex? Do they shout at you, try to intimidate you? Hit you? Throw you out of your home? In the midst of conflict it can be hard to keep a level head about what's acceptable or not. And oh so easy to explain away.

I believe we need to trust our instincts and our gut to try and keep ourselves safe. Too much thinking can be detrimental. You may want to ask your partner questions and to try and understand, but how important is that really when you're feeling worthless, bruised, homeless? Does it truly matter why your partner is doing these things when the impact on you is exactly the same? Even if we can't acknowledge abuse, we need to leave if our relationship feels like shit.

I would like to think I know how to keep myself safe but that's not entirely true. I believe we are all at risk of abuse, and that the need to feel loved and cared for is so great that we can often overlook the abuse to get the good bits. This makes me so sad.

I hope we can all manage to make more loving and caring relationships than this.

Rxx

[Gemme]

Originally Posted by Kobi

Snow, I agree that most females have experienced abuse by the traditional definition of the concept at the hands of other people at some point in their lives.

What I was referring to was this:


About 17-45% of lesbians report having been the victim of a least one act of physical violence perpetrated by a lesbian partner (1,5,6,13). Types of physical abuse named by more than 10% of participants in one study included:

Disrupting other’s eating or sleeping habits

Pushing or shoving, driving recklessly to punish, and slapping, kicking, hitting, or biting (11).

Sexual abuse by a woman partner has been reported by up to 50% of lesbians (12).

Psychological abuse has been reported as occurring at least one time by 24% to 90% of lesbians (1,5,6,11,14).


These are stats for lesbian-lesbian relationships. Not for women in general. At least one incident of psychological abuse in a relationship by 24-90% of lesbians? Sexual abuse 50% of the time?

This is when I feel like I am living in a parallel universe.

It doesn't read like sexual abuse occurs up to 50% of the time to me. It reads that sexual abuse occurred in UP TO 50% of the cases that sexual abuse from a woman partner was documented. We all know that of the cases that are documented, there are far more that are not. Of the documented cases, there could easily be documented incidents up to half of the reported cases. That doesn't mean that it happened 50% of the time. It would only have to happen at least once in up to 50% of the cases documented.

I haven't gone back so forgive me if I didn't see this but was there a clear and definitive definition of sexual abuse for these stats? Was it including only times when a physical assault actually occurred or does it include times that threats of assault were made but perhaps no definitive, physical assault occurred? Did it include sexual harrassment as sexual abuse? Does it include the fucked up mind games that people often play with one another?

I had a friend in high school who was physically assaulted in a very specific and graphic way. After that happened once, just the threat of that happening again created the same reaction as did the initial assault, so even though.....say the tenth time it happened (the threat), she was not physically touched but the threat of it happening again was very much a possibility.....does that still count as sexual abuse? Is it strictly psychological abuse at that point? For me, I see the various forms of abuse like links on a chain. They are connected and it's difficult to suffer one without another.

As for the psychological abuse stat, I fully believe it. Again, it's all about the definition for me. What you may consider fine or just rude behavior, I might consider abusive behavior. We all view from our individual perspectives and unless there's a straightforward definition of what is being measured, then we're going to have that gray area.

[Kobi]

Originally Posted by Gemme

It doesn't read like sexual abuse occurs up to 50% of the time to me. It reads that sexual abuse occurred in UP TO 50% of the cases that sexual abuse from a woman partner was documented. We all know that of the cases that are documented, there are far more that are not. Of the documented cases, there could easily be documented incidents up to half of the reported cases. That doesn't mean that it happened 50% of the time. It would only have to happen at least once in up to 50% of the cases documented.

I haven't gone back so forgive me if I didn't see this but was there a clear and definitive definition of sexual abuse for these stats? Was it including only times when a physical assault actually occurred or does it include times that threats of assault were made but perhaps no definitive, physical assault occurred? Did it include sexual harrassment as sexual abuse? Does it include the fucked up mind games that people often play with one another?

Gemme, you ask some very pertinent questions and show some excellent critical thinking skills.

Perhaps if you actually read it, some of those would have been answered and even more generated.

Same goes for the math. Read it. Then venture an opinion based on fact, not arbitrary conjecture.

Would love to discuss it further, once we are working with the same data.

Have a nice day

[Gemme]

Originally Posted by Kobi

Gemme, you ask some very pertinent questions and show some excellent critical thinking skills.

Perhaps if you actually read it, some of those would have been answered and even more generated.

Same goes for the math. Read it. Then venture an opinion based on fact, not arbitrary conjecture.

Would love to discuss it further, once we are working with the same data.

Have a nice day

Kobi, your response feels dismissive and condescending. The pat on the head for my 'critical thinking skills' especially.

I will read Snowy's post that she contributed to the thread to see if there are, in fact, definitive descriptions for what the study considers to be sexual abuse and perhaps I will find the answers to my questions.

Having said that, you completely missed the point I was making in regard to your response to Snowy. I don't feel you're reading the statistics properly. They are absolutely within reason. I'm fine with leaving it as an agree to disagree thing, however.

Have a nice day.

[Teddybear]

Originally Posted by Girl_On_Fire

Some people just do this for fun. Some because they honestly don't know any better and it's simply a pattern from their childhood. Since that movie, a psychological term came about called 'gaslighting' in which one partner slowly and methodically picks apart at the sanity of another by implanting false information and misdirecting to make the other person questions themselves so much, they doubt their own sanity. This makes one of the partner even more vulnerable and easy to control. When they finally blow up or have a breakdown, the abuser can say, "See, I told you she was nuts." It's the most isolating, horrible, mentally-torturing feeling on earth. I've been through it.

I want to address the issues you brought up but I want to do it separately.

Gaslighting is something that is a slow and methodically way to abuse someone. It takes someone who is really dark to put another on this path. I have followed some down that rabbit hole. It HELL to crawl back out and if and when your able to your NOT the person you were before. Its easy to follow the person you love down this path. It isnt like so outrageous that you can spot it a mile away.

It starts off very slowly and deliberate. They test the waters. It could be something as little as moving your keys from where you usually put them at the end of the day to asking where something is that was never there to start with. By time your so deep into it you dont know if your living in reality or in a dream world.

I used to set up little test for myself and didnt tell anyone but I wrote them down so I could check to make sure or I would take pictures with my camera. It was a way for me to know where to find what I was looking for in the am. I found out in short order that I wasnt "losing" my thing they were being moved on purpose. Im surprised that it took me months to finally say enough is enough.

By time I had left these relationships I knew that I had been played but couldnt figure out WHY? Im still asking myself that and I think I may for a long time to come.

I know that some ppl love to do this to others I just cant figure out why and where they really get the "balls" to do it.

Im sure there are others that will comment on this also and I look forward to reading them

[Nic]

Damn. Used to love that movie. Can't really look at it the same way now. What a shitty thing to do to someone.

[Teddybear]

Originally Posted by Girl_On_Fire

I also want to address the "abuser versus victim" topic. I've only once considered myself a victim. I don't anymore. I'm somebody who unfortunately gets into a pattern of abusive relationships. I'm no innocent angel either.

I was a VICTIM to my father and to the others I was PREY.

The abusers HUNT us. They set their sights on us and trap us. I like others i think use the word victim cause it is acceptable and it is how people outside looking in see us.

I have or I am working on taking that target OFF of me. It isnt an easy road by no means but its one Im traveling.

[Teddybear]

Originally Posted by Girl_On_Fire

I'm no innocent angel either. However, I can say with complete honesty that I have never in my life gone out of my way to harm somebody in a premeditated fashion. Have I reacted out of anger, fear, frustration or confusion in the moment? Yes. Absolutely. Has my inability read and understand social cues hurt people indirectly without my being aware of it? Yes. Absolutely. And once I figured out what I had been doing, it hit me like a ton of bricks and I spent several months tracking people down to apologize to them. (Which, unfortunately, got me back together with my ex).

I think there is something to be said about intent. (Yes, it's my favorite word.) An abuser, in my opinion, is someone who clearly knows they are physically or psychologically harming another. Once they find out from their partner that they are being hurtful, they purposefully use that information to continue to hurt their partner. That, in my opinion, is the definition of an abuser.

Someone who has a mental/developmental disorder and has a temper that they have difficulty controlling or difficulty understanding social expectations may display abusive behavior but may not, in fact, be an abuser. Someone who comes from an abusive background and knows no other way to behave may exhibit abusive behavior but may not be an abuser if they had therapy and/or education about more appropriate behavior.

I agree that two people just may be a bad fit for each other. They bring out the worse in each other but when they are with other people, their behavior and conduct would be considered within the norm. Every case is different. There are always grey areas.

I too have NEVER set out to hurt anyone intently that doesnt mean that I havent or wont in the future. However I have to say that being human we all hurt each other in some way or another. But that doesnt meet the definition of abuse. We hurt others feelings when we may or may not be who or what they want us to be.

Being with someone with mental health issues is a horse of a different color. I for one understand that no matter what they try sometimes they just cant control it.

I was with someone who refused to get help for her mental illness. She is now and Im thankful for that. We have just recently reconnected and the change in her is amazing. I know we wont ever be a couple again cause she will stop getting the help she needs.

INTENT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! AN abuser is FULL of intent. Now to hear them tell it they arent doing anything wrong nor have they.

Im not going to go down that road. To me they get their kicks by DESTROYING their prey