Are You Ready For Some Football?

[DMW]

Originally Posted by Kobi

Hey DMW,

I am sorry to hear it bothers you for one woman to refer to another female as a woman.

If I referred to her as a "girl" thereby infantilizing her, I would agree.

But, it is actually cool for women to recognize one another as grown up women.

BTW, I do not require your approval or any non female's approval on how to be respectful to other women. I am a feminist.

You suggesting it does not meet your approval is sexist. Women do not need your approval period.

Have a nice day.

Interesting. Thanks for the reply. I respectfully disagree with your mindset. However, i do understand how a woman can call another woman "woman" and that is socially acceptable among women.
I am fully aware that I don't have the perspective of a female.

I wasn't looking for your approval. Voicing my opinion on how
I find some behavior towards women to be disrespectful.

Suppose it is because there are different rules of engagement, societal norms, mores etc...for women among women and women among transmen. Makes sense. Even if it does seem patriarchical, sexist and hypocritical to me...if the behavior is between women i suppose it is acceptable behavior among women. I still disagree with that mindset.

[Kobi]

Originally Posted by DMW

Interesting. Thanks for the reply. I respectfully disagree with your mindset. However, i do understand how a woman can call another woman "woman" and that is socially acceptable among women.
I am fully aware that I don't have the perspective of a female.

I wasn't looking for your approval. Voicing my opinion on how
I find some behavior towards women to be disrespectful.

Suppose it is because there are different rules of engagement, societal norms, mores etc...for women among women and women among transmen. Makes sense. Even if it does seem patriarchical, sexist and hypocritical to me...if the behavior is between women i suppose it is acceptable behavior among women. I still disagree with that mindset.

DMW,

I am really having trouble following you.

Are you saying, in your mindset, calling an adult female a woman is disrespectful? And if you are, it might help if you explain from your mindset why you see this as disrespectful. Is calling an adult male a man disrespectful?

As for different rules for female-female interactions vs female-male interactions and how this is patriarchal, sexist, and hypocritical - I am totally lost.

Patriarchal refers to characteristic of something controlled by men. Sexist refers to discrimination or devaluation of women by men. Hypocritical refers to the pretense of having values, virtues, beliefs that one does not actually possess.

Are you trying to allude to something men like to call reverse sexism?

[DMW]

Originally Posted by Kobi

DMW,

I am really having trouble following you.

Are you saying, in your mindset, calling an adult female a woman is disrespectful? And if you are, it might help if you explain from your mindset why you see this as disrespectful. Is calling an adult male a man disrespectful?

As for different rules for female-female interactions vs female-male interactions and how this is patriarchal, sexist, and hypocritical - I am totally lost.

Patriarchal refers to characteristic of something controlled by men. Sexist refers to discrimination or devaluation of women by men. Hypocritical refers to the pretense of having values, virtues, beliefs that one does not actually possess.

Are you trying to allude to something men like to call reverse sexism?

Not insinuating or alluding to reverse sexism. Reverse sexism is just another way to reinforce sexual and gender stereotypes. What I take issue with has to do with the dynamics of human relationships and how
one respects another. So, actually, my disapproval of calling someone " the woman" has nothing to do with sex or gender. Just my opinion and mindset. Context and tone are important to consider.

[Kobi]

Originally Posted by DMW

Not insinuating or alluding to reverse sexism. Reverse sexism is just another way to reinforce sexual and gender stereotypes. What I take issue with has to do with the dynamics of human relationships and how
one respects another. So, actually, my disapproval of calling someone " the woman" has nothing to do with sex or gender. Just my opinion and mindset. Context and tone are important to consider.

DMW, with all due respect, to reframe sexism and misogyny into "sexual/gender stereotypes and the dynamics of human relationships" is nothing more than an attempt to deny they even exist.

To deny that sexism and misogyny even exists is incredibly disrespectful to women. It is denying that the struggles of women in a male dominated, male controlled, male fabricated society don't exist. Your mindset seems to be saying there are no disparities in wages between men and women, it is just a mathematical error? And access to opportunities is just a motivational issue? And rape is just a difference of opinion? And domestic violence is just communicating with fists?

Given this is your mind set, it kind of explains how sexism, misogyny, objectifying women, sexual harassment of women, sexual inappropriateness, and so on can occur here and you say nothing. Nothing. Not a peep out of you.

But, a woman calls another woman a woman, and here you come, the knight in shining armor on his white steed, ready to defend her honor?

You wont say boo to someone who is male identified and insulting women, but you are ok inflicting your warped sense of honor and respect on a woman who is being respectful to another woman?

Context and tone is very important. Your context and tone is that of a condescending, privileged, sexist prick. Unfortunately, you picked the wrong woman to tangle with. I have been dealing with jackasses like you longer than you have been a jackass. I'm not intimidated by nor impressed with male ignorance or arrogance.

The saddest part of this to me? I don't know when you transitioned, but you started life as a female. You had some female socialization. You had some female experiences. And yet, you don't seem to have a clue. Just boggles my mind.

And now back to football.....

[firegal]

I agree back to football.....Go SEAHAWKS,

I,m flying my SEAHAWKS flag loud and proud,

[DMW]

Kobi,

I actually agree on much that you have to say and don't think that I " picked the wrong woman to tangle with". I obviously, don't agree with what you have said about me personally. But, it is understandable.

I want to try and clarify a few things.

First and foremost I did not and do not deny that sexism or misogyny exist. I feel that reverse sexism is an excuse to continue unfair or unjust treatment towards women and just reinforces stereotypes based solely on an individuals gender or sex and not on one's character and abilities.

Just as reverse racism is a farce to deny what still exists.

Secondly, my reasoning for using the terms " basic human relationships" was to try and frame this into a simpler understanding of my mindset. Trying to explain or convey where i was coming from. Not to invalidate or erase sex or gender. In addition, wasn't trying to back peddle on my original feelings or statement of disapproval. I just didn't comprehend.
I do understand why you would assume, as much, based on what I have writ.

In general terms, if sex and gender are taken out of the equation referring to a woman as, " the woman" (from my perspective) no matter what sex says it ;seems caustic to me. That is my issue. Matter of fact, if coming from a biomale or a male ID'd individual, i would automatically assume it to be dismissive or disrespectful. So, most likely, I would have to have a discussion with them.

So, I have come to understand more after sometime for reflection.
When I stated context and tone need to be considered I was, in fact, thinking and considering it, as well. Trying to comprehend both perspectives. I was at work and didn't have time to continue my post. Sometimes, I feel that I shouldn't post unless I can follow up a discussion in due time. However, selfishly, I have come to more of an understanding from sharing my opinion and your responses.

If a woman calls another woman " the woman" and the relationship is that of mutual friendship and it is jovial ( good-natured) I "get it". And that is where my perspective and understanding was skewed and I took offense when, clearly, I shouldn't have.

I appreciate your replies. I am sorry for any upset or disturbance I have caused you.

And ,of course, my apologies to the members for the derail.

Go Peyton!

[Jet]

I'm hesitant to say "Go Payton or Go Broncos! I think I'll be accused of Payontism or being Broncoistic.I'll make sure that when I scream and root when TDs are made, in the privacy of my own home, I'll be politically correct about it. LOL