Macklemore's "Same Love" : Ally or Exploitation?

[ProfPacker]

Medusa,
I don't disagree with what you are saying but the event felt exploitive. I'm agree that it is under the larger umbrella of civil rights but Hollywood is opportunist. Did the writer of the missive sound angry and place this under the rubric of more neolliberal patter. She did.

I was actually more curious about a 20 year old's reaction given that for many years her family was not legitimized. I think she really took offense at it not really being a clear statement of queer marriage. So, I was filtering from the lenses of a 65 year old woman who did feel moved but confused by my reaction that I was not overly moved and a 20 year old that has been experiencing her own oppression from the dominant world as being the daughter of queer parents.

I do think it takes a lot more to be an ally than a song and a show. That's why I thought it would have been more affirming if he and his fiance would have married along with others. So, the intentionality is not clean cut. I appreciate Queen Latina's struggle and actually was wondering what she was really feeling. Socorro that I am someone ambiguous but that is where I am at these days.

[Medusa]

Originally Posted by femmepacker

Medusa,
I don't disagree with what you are saying but the event felt exploitive. I'm agree that it is under the larger umbrella of civil rights but Hollywood is opportunist. Did the writer of the missive sound angry and place this under the rubric of more neolliberal patter. She did.

I was actually more curious about a 20 year old's reaction given that for many years her family was not legitimized. I think she really took offense at it not really being a clear statement of queer marriage. So, I was filtering from the lenses of a 65 year old woman who did feel moved but confused by my reaction that I was not overly moved and a 20 year old that has been experiencing her own oppression from the dominant world as being the daughter of queer parents.

I do think it takes a lot more to be an ally than a song and a show. That's why I thought it would have been more affirming if he and his fiance would have married along with others. So, the intentionality is not clean cut. I appreciate Queen Latina's struggle and actually was wondering what she was really feeling. Socorro that I am someone ambiguous but that is where I am at these days.

Oh, so so much agreed on Hollywood being opportunist! And like Snowy said earlier, we are the latest "cash cow" for Hollywood.

I was wondering what Queen Latifah was feeling as well but I don't think it was any coincidence that they had her officiating. I have read for years as the tabloids have speculated about Latifah's sexuality and I remember that several tabloids had published photos of her kissing and embracing her personal trainer/friend. (I can't remember how they described her!)

It was odd to me to have Madonna there. I mean, I know she has been a champion for Gay rights for a long time but I would have liked to see another actual GAY person on the stage. Like Elton John maybe? Or KD Lang? Or Melissa Etheridge? or George Michael? Or hell, any of them. Or, even better, ALL of them!!

And can I say again that Mary Lambert is fabulous??!?!?!?

[ProfPacker]

But in many ways this was another avenue for the privileged and dominant group to feel good about themselves. If you think of the history of social services in this country it was always based on those in power "doing good". If there was equal distribution of rights and wealth how would these people feel good about themselves. The writer of the article is correct in talking about neoliberalism. We have a history in this country of providing rights as long as the dominant group accords us permission. It is a very nuanced experiemce. It will only work when they stop pitting marginalized groups against each other. And, the marginalized and oppressed groups realize that a lot of their in fighting is caused by this dynamic.

[C0LLETTE]

I'm no expert but isn't this the way of most "revolutions? They're seldom, if ever, fronted by the oppressed who are too busy being oppressed to have the luxury or advantage to do much flag bearing.

I'll confess, I live in a cave and poke my head out every now and then to see what's going on. Three days ago I'd never heard of "Same Love", Macklemore, Mary Lambert. I barely know what hip hop is either.

Yes yes it was a glitzy, schmaltzy, maybe exploitative performance. But I , for one, enjoyed it; am happy that Broke Back Mountain might now be retired as Hollywood's only major paean to gayness (tyg). People got married, no one died tragically and, I read that Mary Lambert has signed with Capitol Records and is climbing the Billboard charts. Not every gift horse is Trojan.

[Parker]

I have no issues with Same Love bc (a) Mary helped to write it and (b) it was written during the time WA was trying to legalize marriage equality - it was written in support of that (that's what he is talking about with the lyrics, "Damn right I support it" and "And a certificate on paper isn't gonna solve it all
But it's a damn good place to start").

So while it has gotten huge and he is getting rich off of it (and other songs), it started out in a good place and I cant fault him (or them) for that - plus, like someone else said, it brought Mary out into the spotlight, where she should be. Is he perfect? Good lord, no. But I'll take an ally who is making a few bucks off of a song that supports marriage equality over an ally who still uses, "that's gay" (ahem, Dixie Chicks' Natalie Maines) any damn day of the week.

Personally, I was touched by what I saw - yes, Madonna being there was a little strange and I would have preferred someone who is OUT officiating to Queen Latifah (no offense, I love the Queen), but just seeing all of those gay couples getting married right there on live TV, in front of millions of people - that was huge. And since my crusty old heart sometimes melts a bit at things like that, it was sweet to see them all so happy and to see everyone celebrating with them.

I will say that it made me a little uncomfortable to watch him rap the lyrics about Hip Hop's homophobia - he walked out to the edge of the stage like he was calling out specific people and I couldnt help but think about how much hate comes our way from the Country music side of things (I found Reba to be a particular disappointment). I agree with whoever said that he is speaking to his genre - but a LOT of people have issues with him even being IN that genre, let alone being a white dude calling people out in Hip Hop.

But that's probably another thread...

[Medusa]

Which leads me to think I want to start another thread about who "owns" music genres. Like, are white people ever allowed to rap? Are folks of color ever allowed to sing country music? How about an First Nations person singing opera?

[C0LLETTE]

Yo Yo Ma plays a lot of Bach... very well, as a matter of fact.

[Gráinne]

Originally Posted by Medusa

Which leads me to think I want to start another thread about who "owns" music genres. Like, are white people ever allowed to rap? Are folks of color ever allowed to sing country music? How about an First Nations person singing opera?

"Are white people allowed to rap"-does Eminem count?
"Are POC allowed to sing country music"-Darius Rucker (of Hootie and the Blowfish), Cleve Francis, and even Ray Charles, who was of course much more famous for his blues and soul.
"First Nations person singing opera"-I don't know of a singer, but Tomson Highway is Cree (and gay), and wrote one.

Maybe I'm just being a pain in the rear .

As to Macklemore and the ceremony, the whole thing just screamed "publicity stunt". I don't equate this with the sit-ins during the Civil Rights Movement or the Freedom Riders. That could and often was dangerous. This just felt like a rich white (and straight) man jumping on the latest fad, on television at that.

I've been wondering what would have happened if Eminem performed that song, and queer POC were amongst the couples. Personally, I'm more of an Eminem fan, at least some of his music. Macklemore seems like a decent person, but he comes off a dandy at best, and the other night, a tool at worst.

I know he meant well and that the couples were joyous. I just think issues in our community go beyond marriage, and that we are not fads.

[Ginger]

I like the song and I'm glad it's out there.

[*Anya*]

“Any time you are speaking about or for a community that is inherently not yours, a group that you are not a part of, you have to be careful,” Macklemore says. “So ‘Same Love’ had to be a very personal song for that reason. I think that’s how it came out.

Though he credits the couple for being his model of a committed and loving relationship, the rapper admits he was initially very reluctant to play the track for his uncle. “These were some of the hardest words to write on a piece of paper, knowing that people were going to hear this,” Macklemore says, adding that playing the song for his uncle and his partner, let alone to thousands of fans, meant exposing himself.

However, after learning that his father had already shared the song with the couple, Macklemore was so moved that he decided to change the artwork for the single. The original concept, a collage of two same-sex couples and rainbow clip art, wasn’t gelling with him—“It didn’t represent what the song is,” he says.

Instead, the final artwork for “Same Love” shows his two uncles posing in a stark, classic family portrait: One sits resolutely in a chair, while the other stands behind him, his hand on his lover’s shoulder. The photo is simple but elegant and powerful."

I included more of the article for context.

Macklemore has a gay uncle, in a committed relationship. I believe he is in an ally.

*My Opinion*

I only watched part of the Grammy's and did not care for the publicity stunt of wedding straight and gay couples but hell: same love, right? Not in my wildest dreams did I think I would see gay couples getting married on TV in my lifetime.

I came out New Years, 1978. My first girlfriend and I, dancing in a gay nightclub all night, as our statement to ourselves and to those present, that we were lesbians.

I Will Survive or some other straight song the gay boys had co-opted as their anthem, blasting and we all sang our hearts out. I felt such joy.

Your anthem is whatever song speaks to you.

The first time I heard Same Love on the radio, I cried. I sat in awe that a song about the love I have for another woman was actually being played on the radio.

I also thought about a kid struggling with his sexuality, no matter his culture or race, who might be immersed in hip-hop, hearing a song that tells him that same-sex love is OK. To me, that is powerful.

When I came out, I never heard Holly Near being played on top 40 radio. We all had to listen to "our songs" on cassette tapes or vinyl records in our homes.

*I* do not care who sings a song or raps to a song. As long as their doing so will encourage straight people to have their eyes or heart opened, even a kernel, to my right to love, live, keep a job or marry the woman that I love.

In my wildest dreams, some 36 years ago when I first came out, did I ever expect to see the changes that have occurred! We were still sneaking into gay clubs 36 years ago!

I will take change, in micro steps, if need be, in any way that it comes. I don't care how self-serving it is for the artist, politician or anyone that it may be; if it ultimately helps all of us.

That is how I feel.

[ProfPacker]

You clarified the historical context of the song, thank you. We can also like and dislike something at the same time. I do jot want to take away from the happiness the couples felt after getting married. I wonder how far Hollywood went in their celebratory stance. Did anyone hear if the were given the biggest f*in party of the night for relatives, families, etc. That to me would be major recognition.

[Medusa]

Originally Posted by femmepacker

You clarified the historical context of the song, thank you. We can also like and dislike something at the same time. I do jot want to take away from the happiness the couples felt after getting married. I wonder how far Hollywood went in their celebratory stance. Did anyone hear if the were given the biggest f*in party of the night for relatives, families, etc. That to me would be major recognition.

I did just read a thing that all 33 of the couples were given tickets to the biggest after party. One of the attending couples (consequently, a Butch/Femme -appearing couple) stated that throngs of celebs were coming up and congratulating them and asking to take photos and that they partied all night!

[The_Lady_Snow]

I believe Queen Latifah came out in May of 2012 at Long Beach Pride. I remember it cause it was a big deal when it happened, I was like you didn't know?

"At the 2012 Long Beach Pride event in California last weekend, the 42-year-old award-winning singer, rapper and actress officially came out as gay.

“Y’all my peeps (people),” she said, referring to the LGBT community. “I love you!”

The Queen performed to a crowd of about 1,000 people for more than an hour, telling them to “keep your support system tight” and also warning about keeping safe from STDs.

“Thank you to all my favorite peep guests who came out to support me. I appreciate it. I love you so much. Hope you had a beautiful time,” she said. “Y’all be safe whatever y’all get into tonight. Boys –- strap it up. Ladies –- strap it up.”

-------------------------------------------



ETA

I would also like to add that she denied it later on, so until she decides to let us in we can just speculate, I am still thinking she is, though it may be cause she's HOT!

[Parker]

Originally Posted by The_Lady_Snow

I believe Queen Latifah came out in May of 2012 at Long Beach Pride. I remember it cause it was a big deal when it happened, I was like you didn't know?

"At the 2012 Long Beach Pride event in California last weekend, the 42-year-old award-winning singer, rapper and actress officially came out as gay.

“Y’all my peeps (people),” she said, referring to the LGBT community. “I love you!”

The Queen performed to a crowd of about 1,000 people for more than an hour, telling them to “keep your support system tight” and also warning about keeping safe from STDs.

“Thank you to all my favorite peep guests who came out to support me. I appreciate it. I love you so much. Hope you had a beautiful time,” she said. “Y’all be safe whatever y’all get into tonight. Boys –- strap it up. Ladies –- strap it up.”

-------------------------------------------



ETA

I would also like to add that she denied it later on, so until she decides to let us in we can just speculate, I am still thinking she is, though it may be cause she's HOT!

I thought she came out as well, but several (gay) people on my FB said she never *actually* came out, she just danced around it - and "Y'all my peeps!" could mean she is gay or it could mean she just loves "the gays" - celebs like, oh hell, what's her name ... Kathy Griffin! - she says shit like that all the time.

I dont know - we all know she's gay, so maybe she doesnt have to say the actual words...



eta: as to your eta - I think she's hot as well - especially when she is belting out some jazz.

[fatallyblonde]

I'm not gonna spend a lot of time speechifying... just that I am friggin sick to death of straight white men being celebrated... wrong on so many levels not just cos he's a straight dude but he appropriates rap music and has ripped off black rap artists... he gets celebrated disproportionately in his favour for saying the same things actual gay people and black people have said a bazillion times already... and as a man is definitely celebrated above women. Yet somehow he's revolutionary for saying it? Gimme a break. The problem is severely institutionalised but he's not helping by taking the glory. BLERG.

[fatallyblonde]

and yes I agree with that excellent article posted. beyonce rules, macklemore drools.

so fascinating a white straight bro can be salivated over for one condescending 'ho ho I guess you gays are okay' whilst black queer rape artists go completely ignored and have been so for yeaaaaaaars...
wait, no, not fascinating... that other thing... offensive.

[~baby~doll~]

Though i find it hard to take seriously anyone who is not of a specific community creating a so called anthem it needs to be done. Their voice will rise above those who belong to the underprivileged community.
As LGBT our voice is generally weak. In all media we fall short. In publishing few book stores carry many of the titles we would find of interest. i'm sure many of us here don't know all the LGBT authors we could be supporting and reading. We read James Patterson instead of trying Katherine V Forrest because we see the TV ads for Patterson books.
The song I Kissed a Girl by Katy Perry (2008) is an example of the weakness of our voice.
In 1995 Jill Sobule Released I Kissed a Girl it's popularity was minimal by comparison to the Katy Perry release.
Different songs one made a huge splash one didn't. Straight vs Gay.
We all know our society is based on straight privilege. It is what it is.

We need the straight community to support our cause. We do not have the numbers, which would force change. This is a sad truth. Macklemore is a voice crying out and adds to the number's who will support our cause. This is a good thing for us.

As an anthem i can find so many better tunes.

Just off the top of my head i can think of two by an out lesbian Catie Curtis.





It makes me sad her songs do not reach deeply into the straight community who's support we need to change the world.

[Martina]

There does come a point in a movement when the mainstream capitulates and then pretends they were on your side all along, or at the very least were innocent bystanders.

I am too old to be in touch with current zeitgeist well enough to know whether this song is part of that kind of revisionist project. When I was younger, examples (re racism) were "Dances with Wolves" and "Forest Gump."

I do think the article makes some good points, and I would agree that the song is not smart or all that helpful as it is written. Ironically Macklemore and Lewis are smart writers. I think it's interesting that they have put so much energy into a not very good song. I agree that maybe they are doing it, at least in part, to deflect some of the criticism around two white guys getting so much more attention than African American rappers this year. I don't know the genre and the pop culture around the issue well enough to comment much. I am not sure why they are getting more criticism than Eminem has, for example. Is it partially a class issue? I did read that they are the first white rappers to gain success without being more or less sponsored by African American rap artists and without coming up through the institutions where most rap artists find recognition. They got fame through youtube, I think I read.

One thing that has bothered me lately was the Duck Dynasty controversy. That very well-educated redneck (he has a Master's degree in education) did not just make homophobic remarks. He as much as said that African Americans in his part of the world did not suffer under Jim Crow. That that wasn't much of a big deal is, to me, crazy-making. Talk about erasing history. And that guy really knows better. He chooses to believe that. That the Duck Dynasty brouhaha is usually referred to just in terms of his making homophobic remarks is telling.

I was stunned that pretending that racism was never all that toxic in the South got so little reaction. How successful has our erasure of the crimes of our past been? Are we doing the same thing re gay and lesbian oppression?

I read an article about a woman who said that Archie Manning lied in his autobiography about his high school years during integration. At the very least, Manning, President of his class, did not lift a finger to help the African American students who were being bullied in his newly integrated high school. He has completely rewritten history when he tells his story and accuses the people who have called him on it liars. And that video hagiography of the family that is constantly on ESPN mentions nothing of all that. Archie Manning was a moral coward. That is a story that gets told on little websites, not on ESPN.

I know Paula Deen got trounced for racism, but her lapses were so blatant that they were impossible to defend. That Duck Dynasty daddy's saying that the his Louisiana African American neighbors were singing happily in the fields before the Civil Rights era is somehow less objectionable than his homophobia? I still do not get that.

Culture wants to forgive itself, and to do so, it rewrites history. We want to hear Archie Manning saying, yes, it's good segregation is over without having to hear the stories of the African Americans whose persecution he sat by and watched. We want to remember it without the blood and the pain, without seeing ourselves, our parents and grandparents as people who caused terrible harm to others. The Help, written by a white Southern woman, may have ended on a too sanguine note and over-emphasized the role of young white people in change, but you do see vivid details of real harm done by people who lived on to become our beloved grandmothers and great grandmothers. That, to me, is helpful (no pun intended).

Macklemore and Lewis are smart guys. Not homophobes. Not racists. Decent guys. But are they helping to create that alternative narrative of the innocent straight white guy who was always on your side, who never wished us any harm? I am way cool with people coming to their own truths in their own time and with joining the cause at any point -- early or late. I am not cool with some picture of reality that says they were always there or that they lead the way. Allies, maybe. Activists or leaders. NO. Don't even accidentally look like you are.