In Celebration of Butch Femininity

[The_Lady_Snow]

Visual Ideal of what *Butch* is expected to look like, the two more masculine presenting women would be *acceptable* and goo goo ga ga material.

The two women, one on the far left and the one on the right next to the leathered up Dyke are make up wearing more *androgynous* in their presentation and their style they even wear make up kinda butches.

When we dicusss femininity in butches Nat, I am trying to figure out what exactly that means. Clothes, make up, hair, nails are social markers or cues that may give you (general) a hint that a person is ________. I wonder if that is ingrained ideals of what equates butch or if it is our desire that makes us turn our head or do we look beyond the clothing and outer presentation. I get uncomfortable as a Femme defining what is what for other genders, or gender presentation. I am like live and let live and Butch is just Butch regardless if they like pink, make up, or My Little Pony.

I am with HoneyB, this whole if a Butch happens to own a tube of Mac lipstick doesn't influence how Butch is or it should be, Butch like Femme come in so many different varieties of presentation that I just can't see why or how any type of perceived femininity would deter from that, it's confusing only here online.


I only deal with this kind of off putting thought when online, when I go to the bar or out I don't hear the sharp intake of breath in the form of a gasp because a Butch is not presenting or dressing in a particular manner or fashion, what happens is we look, we appreciate, or we make a move.

[The_Lady_Snow]

I love visual aids, here is a great example of a hot butch woman who is in make up, we do ourselves a disservice by dismissing butches for not dressing in a stereotypical manner. At least I think we do.

[Julie]

I am not sure I would define makeup and wearing women's clothing - Butch Femininity. I believe the feminine energy, as does the masculine energy comes from within and not how we dress ourselves.

It would be the same if I wore boxers and lumberjack shirts? Would this define me? (which btw I do and I have).

Years ago when my children were young, I dated a Lawyer who worked at the UN. This Butch was BUTCH BUTCH BUTCH and her energy incredibly masculine. She wore tailored women's suits and makeup. Beautiful diamond earrings and a pendant that belonged to her Momma. I never slept with her though, so I have no idea what her undergarments were. She was a controlling bitch

This thread in some ways reminds me of the one nycFem started "Name a way(s) you break the stereotypes of "Butch" / "Femme" / "FTM" etc"

[stargazingboi]

Great thread Nat.

I think the overall responses in other threads about people trying to figure out what ID they are, surely indicates that there is a pressure to fit into some type of box. New folks that I have encountered here tend to be directed to the forum to learn about the different ID's that are used here on this site. They are given a definition of sorts. Once a definition is given they try to fit themselves into one of those boxes.

The thing I have learned over the years is that having boxes we feel we must fit into causes self doubt, because often time no one really fits into the written definition 100%. So, I think they turn to their community and watch people, talk, and try and sort things out in their mind to determine what box they are closest to and adopt that term.

I remember back in a time when "soft butch,"stone butch," and "butch" where the only terms used. I had never heard of transgendered before, and had no clue that was what I was. I merely, knew I didn't fit into what everyone else was using.

I listened over to others, whether butch or femme, make statements about how butch or not butch a person was. They joke around about "butch cards," it's a joke I know and I have been known to joke as well..but I think about what that may say to a new butch trying to find their way. Although, the "butch card" is a joke and doesn't exist..it in itself indicates that there is an expectation of what it is to be butch and if you do not meet it then your butchness is revoked.

People are forced to dissect themselves and weight what is "femme" and what is "butch" in everything they do. Not quite the way life should be in my eyes. Have I been known to observe a person and in my mind think they are a soft butch (or something) and find myself wrong when they ID as something else. Yes, yes I have. Do I sit and tell them they can't be that because of certain things they do....nope I sure don't. If that is how they ID then so be it..it isn't for me to judge.

It could be that my views on what is masculine is vast because of places I have lived. In New England and down into New York and New Jersey you see a great deal of varied self expressions. When living out there I would head to work and see men wearing pink and lavender shirts and so forth. Living in these places allowed me to see men enjoy art, theater, dance, etc., and none of them were ever questioned about their masculinity. Oh and yeah...I'm one of those guys that have no shame in wearing a pink shirt with or without a tie. What I wear and what I do is that the marker of all that I am...it is my character that truly defines who I am.

In either the Butch world or transgender side of things there is pressure to meet a certain level of masculinity in which they (another person outside of self) have defined and that their definition is the only definition that counts. Unless you work for webster dictionary your definition is a personal opinion and should not be forced to be gospel to another...it is a personal opinion...no more/no less.

The beauty of this world is that we are different...I love the wide verity of butches and femmes...makes life interesting. So, if you want to knit...wear make up...cut wood...arm wrestle...dance...play an instrument. Go for it...because honestly...who's to really say what is a girl thing or a boi thing. Embrace yourself..love yourself...and be happy

I could write more...but I think I have rambled long enough