Butches and bindings and breasts, oh my

[DapperButch]

Originally Posted by C0LLETTE

well, this should prove interesting.

No worries, I have tied myself down to my chair and my laptop is out of reach...

[*Anya*]

Originally Posted by vagina

How do you feel about your partner's breasts?

I love 'em. I want to suck on them for hours. Sometimes I have been allowed to suck on them for hours... lets just say it makes me tingle down there!

Are they a turn on or not?

Huge turn on. I used to like small breasts and after being with someone with Double D's I am now a HUGE fan of C and D cups

Do you want to touch them? Ignore them? Play with them?

The more I ignore them, the more I want to play with them.

Do binding vests turn you on?

No, they are a turn off for two reasons: 1) the butch is causing damage to own body with all that compression on rib cage. 2) I can no longer tell if that's a butch or a man.

If your partner had top surgery, would they become more or less attractive to you?

I would never stay with someone if they mutilated their breasts.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and we all have preferences but this post bothers me very much.

I read a lot of judgment here with words like mutilate, can't tell if that's a butch or man, etc.

We just do not do that here at the Planet.

It is called acceptance for the diversity that our community has.

We have butches that are transgendered and some bind and some have had top surgery.

Please be mindful of the choices of others-even if those choices are not ones you would make or would be attracted to.

[Medusa]

Originally Posted by vagina

How do you feel about your partner's breasts?

I love 'em. I want to suck on them for hours. Sometimes I have been allowed to suck on them for hours... lets just say it makes me tingle down there!

Are they a turn on or not?

Huge turn on. I used to like small breasts and after being with someone with Double D's I am now a HUGE fan of C and D cups

Do you want to touch them? Ignore them? Play with them?

The more I ignore them, the more I want to play with them.

Do binding vests turn you on?

No, they are a turn off for two reasons: 1) the butch is causing damage to own body with all that compression on rib cage. 2) I can no longer tell if that's a butch or a man.

If your partner had top surgery, would they become more or less attractive to you?

I would never stay with someone if they mutilated their breasts.

vagina-

Your post was reported for Transphobia.

So, a couple of things. Anya made some good points about being mindful of other people's choices and I want to reiterate that we have *all* kinds of folks as members of the Planet. We have Butches who are Trans and Transmen who are still Butch-identified. We have Transwomen. We have Femmes who strap. We have bi Butches and Femmes. All different kinds of people make up this community so it is super important that we are being respectful of everyone's lives here.

It feels ugly to me to refer to binding or breast surgery as "mutilation". It implies that people should not have domain over their own bodies if they do anything to remove the feminine aspects. That's actually really old school Feminism before it learned that gender is not binary.

Would it be "mutilation" to you if a Femme wanted breast implants?

Here's the thing, some folks don't want their breasts. And if they make the choice to bind them down or remove them, it's none of our business.

I've heard a lot of anti-Trans sentiment on the internet refer to breast manipulation as "mutilation". As if these people are so steeped in self-hatred that they are grabbing the first rusty kitchen knife they can find and hacking away at themselves while crying in the corner and eating a bucket of chicken.
It assumes that any woman (or person born with female parts) who wants to alter her body *must* be doing so out of self-hatred.

Again, to assume that a woman (or person born with female parts) who wants to change her body must be doing so out of self-hatred is sexist. It also reinforces that bullshit where we need other people's permission to live in our own bodies the way we see fit.

In short, be super careful around the language used to talk about other people's bodies. We don't want this space supporting Transphobia, woman-hating sentiment, or the idea that women (or female-parted people) can't decide for themselves what to do with their bodies.


Thanks, now let's get the discussion back to the topic!

Angie

[vagina]

Mutilation or maiming is an act of physical injury that degrades the appearance or function of any living body, sometimes causing death.

The traditional Chinese practices of língchí and foot binding are forms of mutilation that have captured the imagination of Westerners, as well as the now tourist centered "long-neck" people, a sub-group of the Karen known as the Padaung where women wear brass rings around their neck. The act of tattooing is also considered a form of self-mutilation according to some cultural traditions, such as within Christianity. A joint statement released by the United Nations and numerous other international bodies opposes female genital cutting (female circumcision) as a form of mutilation. Whether or not male circumcision amounts to mutilation is a subject of active academic debate.

[Medusa]

Originally Posted by vagina

Mutilation or maiming is an act of physical injury that degrades the appearance or function of any living body, sometimes causing death.

The traditional Chinese practices of língchí and foot binding are forms of mutilation that have captured the imagination of Westerners, as well as the now tourist centered "long-neck" people, a sub-group of the Karen known as the Padaung where women wear brass rings around their neck. The act of tattooing is also considered a form of self-mutilation according to some cultural traditions, such as within Christianity. A joint statement released by the United Nations and numerous other international bodies opposes female genital cutting (female circumcision) as a form of mutilation. Whether or not male circumcision amounts to mutilation is a subject of active academic debate.

And there is the sticking point in red. Define "degrades the appearance or function of" without resorting to holding the breast up as some sort of herald of femaleness.

Again, women (or folks with female parts) can remove their breasts if they want to.

Did Angelina Jolie "mutilate" herself when she had a bilateral mastectomy in response to Cancer?

It becomes Transphobic when it's only mutilation if the person born with the breasts wants them removed or bound for gender purposes.

[vagina]

It's LESBOPHOBIC to tell me that I am wrong for wanting a BUTCH and not a man.

[*Anya*]

Originally Posted by vagina

It's LESBOPHOBIC to tell me that I am wrong for wanting a BUTCH and not a man.

Good grief no one said anything of the sort.

I'm a lesbian for god's sake.

We are talking judgmental!

[Medusa]

Originally Posted by vagina

It's LESBOPHOBIC to tell me that I am wrong for wanting a BUTCH and not a man.

vagina-

It is very telling to me that you resort to "someone telling you are wrong for wanting a Butch" when we are merely asking you to be respectful of Transfolks.

You can want any Butch or woman you desire. What you cannot do is bust up on this website and spout transphobic bullshit as if it is a recipe for chicken soup and then back it up with us somehow harming you when we tell you to stop using disrespectful language.

It is EASY AS FUCK to say "this is what I desire" without resorting to dissing what you don't desire.

I'm always agog when people say something racist, sexist, or transphobic and then when people call them out on it, they are somehow being victimized.

I am directing you not to post in this thread again or you will face a time-out.

Now, back to business.

Thanks,
Angie

[vagina]

JUDGEMENT

the ability to make considered decisions or come to sensible conclusions.


If I am judgmental and have the ability to make considered decision or to come to a sensible conclusion, I'll take it.


If foot binding in China was mutilation because of expected beauty standards for women to have small feet....

Then cutting off one's breasts is mutilation because of expected beauty standards to appear as a male and to have a flat chest....




Let's not bring up Angelina Jolie and the cancer scare- that's a whole other ball game.


I will not apologize for loving BUTCH bodies instead of Butchered bodies. I mean, people have the right to make their own decisions and do whatever they want with their own bodies. And at the same time People are allowed to have a judgement and a dissenting opinion. If someone says I am not attracted to breasts, then I can say, well, I am attracted to breasts. If someone says I love how FTMs look with flattened breasts, then I can say that I do not enjoy people cutting off their breasts.

[Medusa]

Originally Posted by vagina

JUDGEMENT

the ability to make considered decisions or come to sensible conclusions.


If I am judgmental and have the ability to make considered decision or to come to a sensible conclusion, I'll take it.


If foot binding in China was mutilation because of expected beauty standards for women to have small feet....

Then cutting off one's breasts is mutilation because of expected beauty standards to appear as a male and to have a flat chest....




Let's not bring up Angelina Jolie and the cancer scare- that's a whole other ball game.


I will not apologize for loving BUTCH bodies instead of Butchered bodies. I mean, people have the right to make their own decisions and do whatever they want with their own bodies. And at the same time People are allowed to have a judgement and a dissenting opinion. If someone says I am not attracted to breasts, then I can say, well, I am attracted to breasts. If someone says I love how FTMs look with flattened breasts, then I can say that I do not enjoy people cutting off their breasts.

Sigh.


vagina - You are now on a 30-day time-out from the site. During that time you are not to access our resources in any way.


Thanks,
Angie

[Nadeest]

I would love to play with my partner's breasts. However, I will respect her/hys/his boundries, just as I would want them to respect my own.

That being said, I love playing with breasts. I also love pleasing my partner, all to hell and back.

[Redsunflower]

*speechless*

Thanks so much to everyone who managed to reply in such a calm way and to Medusa for doing what needed to be done.

[Ginger]

I've been with someone who had top surgery, someone who had a mastectomy and someone who had a big butch chest.

I loved each of them and have memories of how tender and hot our sex was, but the second person was the love of my life, so to speak, and ours was the most mind-blowing sex.

It was because of her energy and our emotional connection, not her body necessarily, though I adored her body type.

[Femmadian]

• How do you feel about your partner's breasts?
  
• Are they a turn on or not?
  
• Do you want to touch them? Ignore them? Play with them?
  
• Do binding vests turn you on?
  
• If your partner had top surgery, would they become more or less attractive to you?

I am currently un-partnered so this is all theoretical:
1) I love 'em.
2) Huge turn on.
3) Touch and play, definitely. I love the way they feel so tender and soft, love the jiggle they do during certain activities... Love nibbling on them and feeling the nipples grow hard under my tongue or between my teeth! If one of us is on top of the other and facing each other during sex, that feeling of having our breasts mashed together in a hot, sweaty mess is really arousing. When I embrace them, it's nice to feel their breasts up against mine and be reminded of their physicality since all breasts are pretty unique and no two sets feel or look the same! Maybe it's an animalistic response, like being able to pick out your partner's distinctive smell? I dunno.
4) I'm currently undecided about binding. I won't say it's an active turn-off but not a turn on at this point.
5) Hmmmm, I don't know that they'd be less attractive to me but to be totally honest, I'd probably be a bit disappointed to not be able to see, touch, play with, or snuggle up to them anymore. They're just so lovely! :-)

All that being said, if a partner preferred they not be touched or they felt the desire for top surgery, I would completely respect that. The only thing we really ever own is our own bodies and I'm not about to tell anyone what they can or can't do with theirs.

[Christina]

For myself personally… If I don’t know your boundaries before we become intimate… then I don’t know you well enough to be in bed (also read as… floor/table/car/grass etc… you get the idea here) with you… 9 times out of 10, I have engaged in some level of communication which includes verbal (can also be read as sexual) play… prior to the giving of my essence… My preference is Stone… though in my very early years I have experienced the various levels of Butches… that being said, I am not a breast seeking Femme… although I will press against a bound and or surgically enhanced chest in a hot minute… if it brings pleasure for my partner…

Now just to comment on a few things I’ve read… If a Butch (to any degree on the spectrum) chooses to wear a binding vest… common sense instructs them to be properly sized, so if damaged is being done to their body, I say try another distributor… further more I would think that if a Femme can’t tell the difference between said Butch and a “man” perhaps a lesson in B/F energy needs to be reviewed… because there is a difference… again in my sole opinion… I know this may (or perhaps may not) sound harsh being expressed from one Femme to another… but I cannot abide by the judgment that equates surgically enhanced with mutilation… that’s like saying one Femme is more Femme than the other… because she is Stone versus Soft Femme Butch…

By the way… mutilation is the act of Disfigurement… Marring… Defacing… Injuring… crap just out an out HURTING oneself…

I hope this is making sense I just got home from work… and haven’t had my coffee yet…

[GeeGina]

Not that anyone asked, but I think the point I connected with most was from our friend tantalizingfemme, who said that the real turn on was how confident her partner felt with their body.

This excellent point makes clear the fact that if someone isn't feeling confident or comfortable in their own skin sex/intimacy will always be a limited experience because there will be boundaries, reservations, hesitations, etc.

As a femme and as a lover, I want to encourage, empower, and embolden my partner - so I accept them as they are and for who they are.

[Words]

Originally Posted by Christina

My preference is Stone… though in my very early years I have experienced the various levels of Butches…

Aaaaaaaaaaaggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.

Could we please, please, pleeeeeeeeease not refer to 'levels of butch'? There are types of butches, just as there are types of femmes, but levels? Um, no.

Words

[Christina]

[QUOTE=Words;907660]Aaaaaaaaaaaggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.

Could we please, please, pleeeeeeeeease not refer to 'levels of butch'? There are types of butches, just as there are types of femmes, but levels? Um, no.

Words[/QUOTE

Apologies... various TYPES of butches... although I have read the term "level" used throughout the site... I was not attempting to grade anyone...

[Kimpooh]

So, what I would like to ask you all is:
How do you feel about your partner's breasts?
Are they a turn on or not?
Do you want to touch them? Ignore them? Play with them?
Do binding vests turn you on?
If your partner had top surgery, would they become more or less attractive to you?

I love her breasts!! She however, does not. In fact until we got together, she hadn't been intimate without a shirt or sports bra on in 20 years!! This was one of many "rules", as a butch, she laid out to me. But she quickly realized how much I TRULY loved them & gradually relaxed completely without covering them up. I realize that initially she did this for me but now she loves that I worship her entire body! Why wouldn't i? Even tho they disrupt her mannish appearance to her, to me they are a part of her & a potential source of pleasure for us both & I love every single inch of her!!
As for top surgery....it would make me sad (cuz I really am a boob girl &#128522 but ultimately it's HER that I love, not only her breasts

[thedreamerin]

Breasts make me happy . Not mine but hers.... still if she didn't want me to touch them I could respect that...
But if she'd let me.. I'll be very happy
Binding vests.. I am not sure...
I just find that if I am attracted to someone I just am... that would include the little things about them. If she had top surgery well...are we talking because she's going to transition or are we talking in terms of, she's had some sort of illness that requires it? It's two different things... I would think though if I am already in love with that person it wouldn't matter.

hmm...