The RuPaul Drag T*Word Controversy

Martina · 05-29-2014, 08:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by candy_coated_bitch

I have known a lot of drag queens that DO identify as gender variant in some way. I think it's presumptuous to say that most drag queens are really just cis men in women's clothing and completely unrelated to trans women. (Not that anyone used those exact words, it's just my reaction.)

I didn't use those words, but I did say something like that. I did qualify it by the people *I* have known. I do think there are a lot of drag queens who are pretty uncomplicatedly cis. It's been my experience. I am not sure what's presumptuous about saying that.

Liam · 05-29-2014, 08:58 PM

I don't use the term, and I would not like it, if someone called me that.

candy_coated_bitch · 05-29-2014, 09:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martina

I didn't use those words, but I did say something like that. I did qualify it by the people *I* have known. I do think there are a lot of drag queens who are pretty uncomplicatedly cis. It's been my experience. I am not sure what's presumptuous about saying that.

I know you didn't exactly say that, which is why I clarified it was just my reaction. I think what *IS* presumptuous is assuming how any drag queen may or may not identify without knowing. And it doesn't seem as though that is what you are saying. But really--just my sense on a larger level is we are all having a discussion about someone's gender identity or lack thereof without full knowledge of how they feel about themselves--and by extension what right they have to use a particular word. That feels icky to me.

Corkey · 05-29-2014, 09:19 PM

I am Transgender, I do not use the word, nor do I think it is an acceptable word to use. RuPaul's gender aside it is offensive because Transgender people say it is. If one wants to reclaim the word for themselves that is the prerogative of the person who claims Transgender.
I do think it was done to other people, and so far I have not heard an apology from either the network or RuPaul. If said apology has happened and I missed it, well I missed it.

Martina · 05-29-2014, 09:24 PM

I totally go by what other people tell me they ID as.

People often think about gender in one of two ways. They either see a spectrum with lots of little points along it, and each of these is a gender, almost separate from the others. (I am wildly oversimplifying.) But basically, they understand that once someone has struggled with gender a certain amount, they are probably tg or genderqueer or gender variant or something like that.

OR, people can understand that there may be just a few genders, each rather elastic, each able to manifest in many different forms.

Either approach is liberating, and I respect any individual's conclusions about gender. (Of course.) BUT, I am more in the second camp. I do not love the list-of-qualifiers way of naming gender. I prefer expanding a few categories. I personally find that a lot more liberating than the string of qualifiers approach. I am not sure that the lived reality is much different for most non-trans folk. I know the string of qualifiers works for some, but I groove on subverting the big categories and stretching them till they scream.

So that may pre-dispose me to not assuming TG. It does not pre-dispose me to making normative assumptions.

Corkey · 05-29-2014, 09:34 PM

I look at the spectrum as a circle, not a line. It suits me.

imperfect_cupcake · 05-30-2014, 12:25 AM

I have no idea. All I know is the bigendered drag queens I know consider half their gender categories is trans. I also know unigendered straight cis drag queens. I also know uni-gendered lesbian drag queens. I could keep going with this. Drag does not auto connote gender. So I can't state all people who X are X genders and thus can't claim nuthin.

I'm a dyke. I also call myself a lezzo, a carpet muncher, a lezbean and a few other things. Why? Because I don't think there is anything intrinsically wrong with me at all. If someone calls me a lezzo, I honestly don't find it insulting. Cause its not an insult.

Some dykes feel differently. They hate it. That's fine. But they sincerely can't control what I don't find offesive and what I don't find offensive.

I'm going to assume that everyone in every corner of LGTBQ kinda feels the same way. Some people find something offensive and some don't.

The JD · 05-30-2014, 12:50 AM

Whether or not Ru Paul and the contestants are "entitled" by their own personal identification to use the word (that's how I see much of this discussion), it's taking place on a TV show, not their private lives, which creates another layer of context.

Participants on a game show/reality show tend to be incredibly self-aware of the "brand" they're trying to create, and try to market themselves in ways that will "sell." If you're hearing Ru Paul and the contestants use "tranny" and "she-mail", it's because the show's producers think that will sell ads. That seems to me to be much more problematic.

Martina · 05-30-2014, 03:11 AM

Real drag shows, especially ones with comedians, tend to be pretty politically incorrect. Saying "tranny" and "she-male" is pretty mild stuff compared to what some of the comedians say. Seriously, as a woman, you can get pretty offended at some of the humor. I usually love it although I have hissed a few (dozen) times.

Maybe they were trying to keep some of the flavor of that. I wonder what the audience demographic is? Largely men or women? Gay or straight?

05-29-2014, 08:58 PM	#2
Liam Senior Member How Do You Identify?: Guy Preferred Pronoun?: He, Him, His Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: The Evergreen State Posts: 2,269 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 14,865 Thanked 6,875 Times in 1,861 Posts Rep Power: 21474854	I don't use the term, and I would not like it, if someone called me that. __________________ <3 Love is weird.

05-29-2014, 09:19 PM	#4
Corkey Infamous Member How Do You Identify?: Human Preferred Pronoun?: He Relationship Status: Very Married Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Where I want to be Posts: 8,155 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 47,491 Thanked 29,268 Times in 6,637 Posts Rep Power: 21474859	I am Transgender, I do not use the word, nor do I think it is an acceptable word to use. RuPaul's gender aside it is offensive because Transgender people say it is. If one wants to reclaim the word for themselves that is the prerogative of the person who claims Transgender. I do think it was done to other people, and so far I have not heard an apology from either the network or RuPaul. If said apology has happened and I missed it, well I missed it. __________________ "Many proposals have been made to us to adopt your laws, your religion, your manners and your customs. We would be better pleased with beholding the good effects of these doctrines in your own practices, than with hearing you talk about them". ~Old Tassel, Chief of the Tsalagi (Cherokee)

05-29-2014, 09:34 PM	#6
Corkey Infamous Member How Do You Identify?: Human Preferred Pronoun?: He Relationship Status: Very Married Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Where I want to be Posts: 8,155 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 47,491 Thanked 29,268 Times in 6,637 Posts Rep Power: 21474859	I look at the spectrum as a circle, not a line. It suits me. __________________ "Many proposals have been made to us to adopt your laws, your religion, your manners and your customs. We would be better pleased with beholding the good effects of these doctrines in your own practices, than with hearing you talk about them". ~Old Tassel, Chief of the Tsalagi (Cherokee)

05-30-2014, 12:50 AM	#8
The JD Be the Fearless Bunny How Do You Identify?: Hers. Preferred Pronoun?: he Relationship Status: Medusa’s Snake Charmer Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: This must be the place. Posts: 649 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 1,740 Thanked 2,677 Times in 540 Posts Rep Power: 21474851	Whether or not Ru Paul and the contestants are "entitled" by their own personal identification to use the word (that's how I see much of this discussion), it's taking place on a TV show, not their private lives, which creates another layer of context. Participants on a game show/reality show tend to be incredibly self-aware of the "brand" they're trying to create, and try to market themselves in ways that will "sell." If you're hearing Ru Paul and the contestants use "tranny" and "she-mail", it's because the show's producers think that will sell ads. That seems to me to be much more problematic. __________________ I don't deserve any credit for turning the other cheek as my tongue is always in it. ~Flannery O'Connor

05-29-2014, 09:24 PM	#5
Martina Senior Member How Do You Identify?: * Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: * Posts: 4,999 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 13,409 Thanked 18,285 Times in 4,167 Posts Rep Power: 21474854	I totally go by what other people tell me they ID as. People often think about gender in one of two ways. They either see a spectrum with lots of little points along it, and each of these is a gender, almost separate from the others. (I am wildly oversimplifying.) But basically, they understand that once someone has struggled with gender a certain amount, they are probably tg or genderqueer or gender variant or something like that. OR, people can understand that there may be just a few genders, each rather elastic, each able to manifest in many different forms. Either approach is liberating, and I respect any individual's conclusions about gender. (Of course.) BUT, I am more in the second camp. I do not love the list-of-qualifiers way of naming gender. I prefer expanding a few categories. I personally find that a lot more liberating than the string of qualifiers approach. I am not sure that the lived reality is much different for most non-trans folk. I know the string of qualifiers works for some, but I groove on subverting the big categories and stretching them till they scream. So that may pre-dispose me to not assuming TG. It does not pre-dispose me to making normative assumptions.

05-30-2014, 12:25 AM	#7
imperfect_cupcake Senior Member How Do You Identify?: feminine dolly dyke Preferred Pronoun?: Your Grace Relationship Status: I put my own care first Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: In a gauze of mystery Posts: 1,776 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 2,426 Thanked 9,710 Times in 1,611 Posts Rep Power: 21474853	I have no idea. All I know is the bigendered drag queens I know consider half their gender categories is trans. I also know unigendered straight cis drag queens. I also know uni-gendered lesbian drag queens. I could keep going with this. Drag does not auto connote gender. So I can't state all people who X are X genders and thus can't claim nuthin. I'm a dyke. I also call myself a lezzo, a carpet muncher, a lezbean and a few other things. Why? Because I don't think there is anything intrinsically wrong with me at all. If someone calls me a lezzo, I honestly don't find it insulting. Cause its not an insult. Some dykes feel differently. They hate it. That's fine. But they sincerely can't control what I don't find offesive and what I don't find offensive. I'm going to assume that everyone in every corner of LGTBQ kinda feels the same way. Some people find something offensive and some don't.

05-30-2014, 03:11 AM	#9
Martina Senior Member How Do You Identify?: * Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: * Posts: 4,999 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 13,409 Thanked 18,285 Times in 4,167 Posts Rep Power: 21474854	Real drag shows, especially ones with comedians, tend to be pretty politically incorrect. Saying "tranny" and "she-male" is pretty mild stuff compared to what some of the comedians say. Seriously, as a woman, you can get pretty offended at some of the humor. I usually love it although I have hissed a few (dozen) times. Maybe they were trying to keep some of the flavor of that. I wonder what the audience demographic is? Largely men or women? Gay or straight?