Obama's Health Care Overhaul: Your Opinions

[Jess]

I have a question regarding the buy a policy or pay a penalty thing. I'm serious, because I haven't seen or read it anywhere.

If you can't afford the insurance and instead opt for paying a penalty.. what do you do for healthcare? Continue on as folks have done going to an ER for a cough due to cold? Wait for an astronomical bill to come that you can't pay and let it get taken from your state taxes? I guess my question is.. do you pay a penalty and THEN pay the same bill you couldn't afford without this plan?

If socialism means an across the board policy ( like Canada) wherein healthcare is paid for via taxes, then I am all about some socialism. Bring it!

Healthcare means so much more than any of our politicians think or espouse. It’s being able to see your doctor when you are sick as often as is necessary and not having to pay because it’s already paid for.
It’s talking to your doctor and explaining things to them and having a meaningful conversation about your medical problem.
It’s getting all the health care you need anywhere you go for as long as you live without ever worrying about cost.
It’s not being told you will lose your job if you are sick and don’t come in.
It’s never getting a bill from anyone for your health care.

[casey35]

For those who does not have insurance i think there should be insurance based on your income and with a rider that allows your preexisting conditions. Hospital do not turn people away that are injured even if they dont have health care. In my opinion the government needs to set down with insurance company and put a restrictions on them. Make them keep prices down for the people to afford them. For those who have posted dont assume you know people or what they have gone thru . If they are not in line for the health bill. This is america last I looked and I believe we all are allowed our opinions.

[key]

Originally Posted by casey35

For those who does not have insurance i think there should be insurance based on your income .

Casey, do you know that this is exactly what the Health Care Reform bill is?

Premiums are based on income, with subsidies for those who can't afford them.

What is wrong with that?

[key]

Originally Posted by Jess

I have a question regarding the buy a policy or pay a penalty thing. I'm serious, because I haven't seen or read it anywhere.


Healthcare means so much more than any of our politicians think or espouse. It’s being able to see your doctor when you are sick as often as is necessary and not having to pay because it’s already paid for.
It’s talking to your doctor and explaining things to them and having a meaningful conversation about your medical problem.
It’s getting all the health care you need anywhere you go for as long as you live without ever worrying about cost.
It’s not being told you will lose your job if you are sick and don’t come in.
It’s never getting a bill from anyone for your health care.

We are the only developed country on the planet who will send a GDamn bill to someone from outside the country who needs doctor care while visiting us. How inhospitable can we be? No one better claim that we are a "Christian Country" who demands that we treat our guests (heck our own fellow citizens) with such contempt.

As for your first question, my guess is yes, those who choose the fine will carry on as is (I believe) and if they end up in the ER? ??? The fine does not get collected until you fill your tax return, so maybe if you don't file, you can avoid it....til...

It's an F-ed way to go, but it's is a small step in the right direction, and given our political climate, it is no small feat that Obama accomplished even this much.

[casey35]

Originally Posted by key

We are the only developed country on the planet who will send a GDamn bill to someone from outside the country who needs doctor care while visiting us. How inhospitable can we be? No one better claim that we are a "Christian Country" who demands that we treat our guests (heck our own fellow citizens) with such contempt.

As for your first question, my guess is yes, those who choose the fine will carry on as is (I believe) and if they end up in the ER? ??? The fine does not get collected until you fill your tax return, so maybe if you don't file, you can avoid it....til...

It's an F-ed way to go, but it's is a small step in the right direction, and given our political climate, it is no small feat that Obama accomplished even this much.

yep it sounds like a hell away to go . I would just perfer to be toss in jail then i would not have to worry about it or maybe we all need to go on medicaid and let someone else take care of us.

[key]

Originally Posted by casey35

yep it sounds like a hell away to go . I would just perfer to be toss in jail then i would not have to worry about it or maybe we all need to go on medicaid and let someone else take care of us.

I have no doubt that you work hard for whatever you have in your life. I just wonder why you are so convinced that most other people (even poor people) work as hard as you do? And that even with working so hard are still not able to provide something as basic as health care for themselves or their families?

I am not saying there are no freeloaders in our country, in every country. But why would you make everyone else, everyone who works as hard as you do, suffer without basic care because of them?

BTW, if you make less than 250K you got a tax cut this year, did you know that?

Honestly, it sounds like you are bitter about how hard you have to work and still not be able to afford your basic needs - like decent on demand health care. It seems to me that you are taking your frustration out on your fellow citizens instead of the broken system that values astronomical profits for a few over basic care for everyone.

Which is more important to you? That a few among us are able to get filthy rich, or that everyone get basic care and not have to go bankrupt to cover medical bills? Keeping the system that way it is (for profit) enshrines mega-profit for some over care for all.

[casey35]

Originally Posted by key

I have no doubt that you work hard for whatever you have in your life. I just wonder why you are so convinced that most other people (even poor people) work as hard as you do? And that even with working so hard are still not able to provide something as basic as health care for themselves or their families?

I am not saying there are no freeloaders in our country, in every country. But why would you make everyone else, everyone who works as hard as you do, suffer without basic care because of them?

BTW, if you make less than 250K you got a tax cut this year, did you know that?

Honestly, it sounds like you are bitter about how hard you have to work and still not be able to afford your basic needs - like decent on demand health care. It seems to me that you are taking your frustration out on your fellow citizens instead of the broken system that values astronomical profits for a few over basic care for everyone.

Which is more important to you? That a few among us are able to get filthy rich, or that everyone get basic care and not have to go bankrupt to cover medical bills? Keeping the system that way it is (for profit) enshrines mega-profit for some over care for all.

No i am not bitter because i do not have healthcare. What i do not like is the way they are going about things. I get tired of hearing our congress saying if you not for this then we are unamerican. I am kinda wondering what you all going to say when they put a heavy tax on us to where we cant afford things. When i was in Scotland do you know how many had cars or lived with there parents and grandparents because they was so heavily tax that they could not afford to live on there own. Let see what the bill is and see how bad they fuck us before i will agree to anything.

[key]

It really gets under my skin when I see people who would rather let other people suffer A LOT than to have themselves suffer a little bit. In my world, all citizens should be required to sacrifice a little bit so that all of us can have basic standards of living, a social safety net. It's called living in a civilized world - caring about complete strangers simply because they share the planet with us.

When I think about it, it is really a selfish reason why I care enough about people I don't even know to sacrifice some of my hard earned money for them. I know that as hard as I work (self employed for over 10 years now), and as healthy as I am (95% veggie, fit as a fiddle) I am not immune to the twists of fate and misfortunes that can befall any of us. I would hope and pray that complete strangers would care about me if I needed them.

Not to mention that my neighbor getting treated for their TB, or SARS, or H1N1 asap is in MY best interest!

If some freeloader takes advantage of that big deal! I would rather 10 freeloaders get something for nothing than to let one honest person suffer needlessly. But, that is just me – even though I do not claim Christianity as my one religion, I do believe that Jesus had it right when he said “Whatsoever you do to the least among you, that you do unto Me.”

[theoddz]

Originally Posted by casey35

No i am not bitter because i do not have healthcare. What i do not like is the way they are going about things. I get tired of hearing our congress saying if you not for this then we are unamerican. I am kinda wondering what you all going to say when they put a heavy tax on us to where we cant afford things. When i was in Scotland do you know how many had cars or lived with there parents and grandparents because they was so heavily tax that they could not afford to live on there own. Let see what the bill is and see how bad they fuck us before i will agree to anything.

Casey, I'm not picking on you here, but do you make $250K/year or more?? What's wrong with "how they're going about it"?? Because your taxes haven't gone up and won't go up to support this bill, which:

* Insurance companies can no longer deny coverage to children who were born with illnesses or have pre-existing conditions.
* Insurance companies are prohibited from dropping people because they get sick.
* They must allow children to stay on their parent's insurance plans until age 26.
* Starting in 2014, insurance companies can no longer deny coverage to people with pre-existing conditions.
* Insurance companies in 2014 will be barred from imposing annual limits on the amount of coverage people can get. There also will be no lifetime coverage limits.
* 32 million Americans who are currently uninsured will be covered.
* The uninsured and self-employed people will be able to buy insurance through state-based exchanges with government subsidies given to those who can't afford it.
* There will be limits on what people have to pay for premiums and out-of-pocket costs based on income.
* Wasteful spending on insurance company executive salaries will be stopped by limiting how much of people's insurance premiums can go toward company administration and profits. A company that goes over the limit has to rebate it back to consumers.
* Insurance companies will be forced to end discrimination against women by charging more for groups with high percentage of women.
* Large employers will pay a penalty if they don't provide health coverage and their employees have to get subsidies in the exchanges to buy their own insurance.
* Small businesses that provide their workers with insurance will get tax credits that cover 35% of premium costs immediately and 50% in 2014.
* Seniors will get additional help for prescription drugs by closing the Medicare "donut hole" or coverage gap, which requires patients to pay the full cost of prescription drugs that cost between $2,830 and $6,440. The donut hole affects about one in four Medicare recipients, forcing them to start splitting their drugs or stop taking medications altogether. Seniors who fall into the donut hole will get a $250 rebate this year, a 50% discount on brand-name drugs starting next year and the donut hole will be completely eliminated by 2020.
* In 2018, there will be an excise tax on employer-provided health plans costing more than $27,500 for family coverage and $10,200 for individual coverage. The tax is imposed only on the amount of the premium that goes over the threshold. It is to be paid by the insurance companies.
************************************************** *****

You see, I don't see Obama's health bill as costing either YOU or ME more in taxes, because neither you or I make over $250K/year. In fact, you and me both are going to see our taxes actually go down.

I just don't understand why you think something like this is about taxing either you or me to death......but it is going to cost the big health insurance companies their huge profit margins and obscene executive pay and bonuses. The only way these insurance companies can "fight back" is to spread lies and misinformation to the average American. They hope to generate fear, and that fear will manifest itself in making John and Jane Q. Public run to the voting box and cast his/her vote in favor of keeping Wall Street in control of our political system.

My suggestion to anyone in this country who is buying into the misinformation and lies is to turn off Fox News and do some reading. Spend LESS time with Pogo.com, American Idol and the X-Box and educate yourself on political happenings and where the money flow in this country is heading. Become active in the political process and know who and what you are voting for.....and why.

Knowledge really is power.

~Theo~

[Jess]

Originally Posted by theoddz

Casey, I'm not picking on you here, but do you make $250K/year or more?? What's wrong with "how they're going about it"?? Because your taxes haven't gone up and won't go up to support this bill, which:

* Insurance companies can no longer deny coverage to children who were born with illnesses or have pre-existing conditions.
* Insurance companies are prohibited from dropping people because they get sick.
* They must allow children to stay on their parent's insurance plans until age 26.
* Starting in 2014, insurance companies can no longer deny coverage to people with pre-existing conditions.
* Insurance companies in 2014 will be barred from imposing annual limits on the amount of coverage people can get. There also will be no lifetime coverage limits.
* 32 million Americans who are currently uninsured will be covered.
* The uninsured and self-employed people will be able to buy insurance through state-based exchanges with government subsidies given to those who can't afford it.
* There will be limits on what people have to pay for premiums and out-of-pocket costs based on income.
* Wasteful spending on insurance company executive salaries will be stopped by limiting how much of people's insurance premiums can go toward company administration and profits. A company that goes over the limit has to rebate it back to consumers.
* Insurance companies will be forced to end discrimination against women by charging more for groups with high percentage of women.
* Large employers will pay a penalty if they don't provide health coverage and their employees have to get subsidies in the exchanges to buy their own insurance.
* Small businesses that provide their workers with insurance will get tax credits that cover 35% of premium costs immediately and 50% in 2014.
* Seniors will get additional help for prescription drugs by closing the Medicare "donut hole" or coverage gap, which requires patients to pay the full cost of prescription drugs that cost between $2,830 and $6,440. The donut hole affects about one in four Medicare recipients, forcing them to start splitting their drugs or stop taking medications altogether. Seniors who fall into the donut hole will get a $250 rebate this year, a 50% discount on brand-name drugs starting next year and the donut hole will be completely eliminated by 2020.
* In 2018, there will be an excise tax on employer-provided health plans costing more than $27,500 for family coverage and $10,200 for individual coverage. The tax is imposed only on the amount of the premium that goes over the threshold. It is to be paid by the insurance companies.
************************************************** *****

You see, I don't see Obama's health bill as costing either YOU or ME more in taxes, because neither you or I make over $250K/year. In fact, you and me both are going to see our taxes actually go down.

I just don't understand why you think something like this is about taxing either you or me to death......but it is going to cost the big health insurance companies their huge profit margins and obscene executive pay and bonuses. The only way these insurance companies can "fight back" is to spread lies and misinformation to the average American. They hope to generate fear, and that fear will manifest itself in making John and Jane Q. Public run to the voting box and cast his/her vote in favor of keeping Wall Street in control of our political system.

My suggestion to anyone in this country who is buying into the misinformation and lies is to turn off Fox News and do some reading. Spend LESS time with Pogo.com, American Idol and the X-Box and educate yourself on political happenings and where the money flow in this country is heading. Become active in the political process and know who and what you are voting for.....and why.

Knowledge really is power.

~Theo~

While the list of goodies above regarding insurance reform ( I truly don't see this as healthcare reform) is all good.. I see no where limits being placed on insurance companies for what they can charge or how often they can increase. That is one of the greater issues I have with this bill. It is NOT what Mr Obama wanted. It is not what our country needs. It may be a start, but until insurance companies get capped and until pharmecuticals have shorter limits set on the time before drugs can be made generically, then we are still at their mercy. Until malpractice suits stop making decisions for our medical professionals and until more med students become general practioners again instead of cosmetic surgeons ( because that is where the big bucks vs low risk is), we are still at their mercy.

Frankly, this country and the folks running it have forgotten what "mercy" really means.

[Kobi]

Originally Posted by Jess

I have a question regarding the buy a policy or pay a penalty thing. I'm serious, because I haven't seen or read it anywhere.

If you can't afford the insurance and instead opt for paying a penalty.. what do you do for healthcare? Continue on as folks have done going to an ER for a cough due to cold? Wait for an astronomical bill to come that you can't pay and let it get taken from your state taxes?

Jess,

I suspect you havent seen the particulars because they have yet to be worked out. As with most big legislation....the idea is in the bill, the particulars are a whole different ball game.

Here in Mass with our mandatory health insurance, you are penalized, this year, at approx $1,100 if you are not in one the exclusion categories. If you are without insurance and seek medical care, you are billed for the cost of the care provided.

Each year the penalty increases.

Here, I have found, the subsidized insurance is a heck of a lot cheaper than private insurance even tho the coverage is a little less and there are co-pays for everything including hospitalization.

If memory serves, Canadian health care is not totally free i.e there are some minimal copays.

I would love to see a socialized system of health care in this country. Aside from getting care when it is needed, there would be greater flexibility in employment. How many of us have turned down jobs we want because the health care benefits were subpar?

But the socialized plans are not without pitfalls that are incongruent to the American lifestyle. In socialized medicine, you get good and timely primary care but there are waiting lists for specialists and surgery. Americans wait???
And there are some exclusions i.e. if over a certain age, they will not do certain types of care like dialysis. These vary from country to country.

Maybe this will be a stepping stone to something new and different and more cost efficient.

[Soon]

Originally Posted by Kobi

Jess,

I suspect you havent seen the particulars because they have yet to be worked out. As with most big legislation....the idea is in the bill, the particulars are a whole different ball game.

Here in Mass with our mandatory health insurance, you are penalized, this year, at approx $1,100 if you are not in one the exclusion categories. If you are without insurance and seek medical care, you are billed for the cost of the care provided.

Each year the penalty increases.

Here, I have found, the subsidized insurance is a heck of a lot cheaper than private insurance even tho the coverage is a little less and there are co-pays for everything including hospitalization.

If memory serves, Canadian health care is not totally free i.e there are some minimal copays.

I would love to see a socialized system of health care in this country. Aside from getting care when it is needed, there would be greater flexibility in employment. How many of us have turned down jobs we want because the health care benefits were subpar?

But the socialized plans are not without pitfalls that are incongruent to the American lifestyle. In socialized medicine, you get good and timely primary care but there are waiting lists for specialists and surgery. Americans wait???
And there are some exclusions i.e. if over a certain age, they will not do certain types of care like dialysis. These vary from country to country.

Maybe this will be a stepping stone to something new and different and more cost efficient.

Canadian Health Care

We don't have co-pays.

It isn't *free* b/c we all pay into it. We just don't pay anything at the point of service.

From the above link:

Public health care is governed by the Canada Health Act. It's designed to make sure that all eligible people in the country have reasonable access to insured health services on a prepaid basis, without direct charges at the point of service.

Simply put, if you break your leg chasing the Canadian dream, you have the right to get fixed up without opening your wallet – except to pull out your provincial health insurance card.

The act is also designed to make sure that the delivery of health care is pretty consistent across the country. Ottawa has found that the best way to do that is by attaching conditions to the cash it transfers to the provinces to cover health care.

Among those conditions are that health care must be:

Portable.
Universal.
Accessible.
Free from extra charges (for insured services).
By portable, Ottawa means if you move from one province or territory to another, you won't lose your coverage. This doesn't mean you can go looking for health services in another province or country because the waiting list at home is too long for your liking. It does, however, mean that your out-of-province in-laws will be covered if they suddenly fall sick while on their annual visit.

Under the universality criterion, all insured residents of a province or territory must be entitled to the insured health services provided by the provincial or territorial health care insurance plan. Doesn't matter if you're rich or poor. You can't buy your way to the front of the line.

By accessible, the CHA means "insured persons in a province or territory have reasonable access to insured hospital, medical and surgical-dental services on uniform terms and conditions, unprecluded or unimpeded, either directly or indirectly, by charges [user charges or extra-billing] or other means [e.g., discrimination on the basis of age, health status or financial circumstances]."


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Another tidbit: Through all entities in its public-private system, the U.S. spends more per capita than any other nation in the world, but is the only wealthy industrialized country in the world that lacks some form of universal health care.

One More Interesting Article: U.S. health care lies about Canada

[key]

It's my understanding that the system in Canada is based on the US Medicare system. Do you Canadians know if this is true?

Also, when Taiwan and South Korea went shopping around the planet for the best system to replicate in their country guess which system they chose? yep, you go it, the US Medicare system. So sad that other countries can see how great our single payer system is and want to use it as a model for their country, yet we can not simply extend this to all of our citizens.

We are one twisted country.

[Soon]

Originally Posted by key

It's my understanding that the system in Canada is based on the US Medicare system. Do you Canadians know if this is true?

Also, when Taiwan and South Korea went shopping around the planet for the best system to replicate in their country guess which system they chose? yep, you go it, the US Medicare system. So sad that other countries can see how great our single payer system is and want to use it as a model for their country, yet we can not simply extend this to all of our citizens.

We are one twisted country.

From what I read, and even on the gov't website, Medicare is actually the unofficial name for our publicly funded universal health care system. It is governed by the Canada Health Care Act..."Framed by the Canada Health Act, the principles governing our health care system are symbols of the underlying Canadian values of equity and solidarity."

Canada's Health Care System (Medicare)

Wiki:
Medicare (French: assurance-maladie) is the unofficial name for Canada's publicly funded universal health insurance system[1]. The formal terminology for the insurance system is provided by the Canada Health Act and the health insurance legislation of the individual provinces and territories.
Under the terms of the Canada Health Act, all "insured persons" (basically, legal residents of Canada, including permanent residents) are entitled to receive "insured services" without copayment. Such services are defined as medically necessary services if provided in hospital, or by 'practitioners' (usually physicians).[2] Approximately 70% of Canadian health expenditures come from public sources, with the rest paid privately (both through private insurance, and through out-of-pocket payments). The extent of public financing varies considerably across services. For example, approximately 99% of physician services, and 90% of hospital care, are paid by publicly funded sources, whereas almost all dental care is paid for privately.[3] Most doctors are self-employed private entities.

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Note: When I wrote no co-payments, I meant we don't pay out of pocket for doctor visits/surgeries. We do pay minimal out of pocket for Prescriptions. (I've never paid more than five dollars for any prescription). Rx, dental, vision is usually covered via employer.

[Linus]

Originally Posted by key

It's my understanding that the system in Canada is based on the US Medicare system. Do you Canadians know if this is true?

I don't believe it was but they were created within a year of each other so I wouldn't be surprised if there were discussions between the two countries. What I think is important to add to the discussion is that while Canadians pay for health insurance through taxes, as others have stated, and there are limited to no co-pays (there are some prescription co-pays but that's a different from all the doc visits/hospital/etc. and it varies from province to province), because the cost is spread out across the country, the per person cost is lower. It would be impressive if a similar thing could be done here. To be honest, I'd imagine that everyone would be covered and costs on a per capita basis would likely drop.

This link does a nice comparison between the two countries including costs (2006 figures were $1000 difference, with Canada on the cheaper end per person)