It's Time to Boycott Arizona

[UofMfan]

Originally Posted by Rockinonahigh

Corkey..we have sent troops many place over the years for way less that whats going on in mexico...look where we are now!! The two wars that the Bush legacy left us in,that we are still fighting and prolly will for a long time yet.Why not help Mexico fight the cartells and other crime thats effecting both our nations.NO,I dont want us in a other war, but we should help some how at least better than we are doing now.I know if my family was in harms way I would be getting out to somewhere safe..wouldnt you?

Mexico is not asking the US to send its troops a la "we need you to save us". The countries that the US is at war with right now did not ask for that either. One was invaded under false pretenses and the other has been destroyed while the US is looking for a man that has made the all mighty powerful US military look inept.

The US has a history of invading countries, Mexico doesn't need this kind of help. Mexico is a sovereign nation, it does not want the US congress to enact any measures where sending troops are involved.

Legalize drugs, and this will all end. As someone who lives in a country where that is also a problem, I know for a fact that we don't want the US saving troops here either. Supply and demand, is that simple. Win the war on drugs in the US and countries like mine and Mexico would have less headaches and issues with cartels and the crimes associated with them.

To think that sending US troops places is the cure for all simply blows my mind.

Rocking, I quoted you but this is a general statement to the thread.

[Queerasfck]

We went to that rally today at the Arizona state capital. There were lots of people there and lots of cops. I didn't see any people that were in favor of the senate bill 1070. It was very emotional when we first got there just reading the signs people had made, seeing the folks who brought their kids to particpate, people just banding together. Christine made an awesome sign which many people took pictures of.
Once we got home though thinking about the whole thing just makes me incredibly sad. I know everyone in this state is not a racist. Everything about this bill just feels so racist to me. I'm just so over it.

[SuperFemme]

Originally Posted by apretty

like i said, anytime anyone wants to come down and protest the racism, the homophobia, the general state of *arizona* i shall HOST you and yours in my home, so come on down to where the work needs to be done!!

(on the upside we have a sprinkles cupcakes just 2 miles from us, and a barneys!)

I just pee'd myself with shame.

Can me and Cal still come over for some cupcakes and a tazing?

[Toughy]

There is no sane reason to send US or UN troops to Mexico.....to even suggest that speaks to hegemony, American Exceptionalism, white privilege, blah blah blah...just because we have a history of intervening, with military force, in other countries business is not an excuse for anything....Last I heard...........Mexico is not requesting military intervention from anyone.........

Stop. The. War. On. Drugs. Stop it NOW. Legalize all those drugs.......pot, white powder, brown/black powder/sticky stuff.....legalize all drugs........stop the CIA from secretly financing all those black ops by way of the drug trade of mostly opium and heroin..........no sane US citizen buys mexican dirt weed....we grow much better pot here....laughin....

As I said before........talking about the illegal drug trade and the violence around it, is THE red herring of immigration reform. Those things are not connected at all......

[Toughy]

killing a whole bunch of folks on both sides IS NOT the answer...................

the drug trade across the southern border is a police issue.....the war on terror and the war on drugs needs to go away.....terrorism/drug&human trafficking is not a military battle............it's a police battle.......

military troops and/or war is never ever ever the answer for drug/human trafficking and terrorism............these are matters best handled by law enforcement and courts..

[Rook]

I'm a little confused here..
Last time I checked, we had a Canadian border as well..
If for whatever reason, Obama suffered a brainfart and agreed to military enforcement, at least on our side of the Border with Mexico, what makes you think Drug pushers/human traffickers/Gun Smugglers won't just try a different Venue {if they're not already doing it}, Saskatchewan, Manitoba & British Columbia seem to have big enough borders to try stuff, no?
Then of course, there's the Pacific Coast, East Coast, Gulf of Mexico coast...
If you think they won't bother figuring how to smuggle things by Water, you need to spend some time on the East coast and west coast of Puerto Rico, Jamaica & Dominican Republic/Haiti...
So, what you're suggesting is, Military presence at all these Borders?
I think I've seen that somewhere...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_Demilitarized_Zone

[Rockinonahigh]

Please note, I never said we should go to war..I stated that in my post.I come from a military family with many years of service,so I know what war can do..its bad plane and simple.I hope that one day we will never have another one and someone will finlaly get that we need to have peaceful world.
I also said that if my family was in danger I would do what ever it takes to get them out of harms way.This new law is causeing lots of probs and will cause more.I hope its put down and our goverment steps up to the plate and fixes this issue.Do NOT ever put words in my mouth I didnt say.I just hope other states dont follow this example.

[Canela]

I gotta speak.

What a heinous thing Brewer has done. I am definitely boycotting Arizona...was going out there this summer for a family reunion but now, I don't think so...My family and I are visibly hispanic, you think I'm going to take a chance with my kids?

One more thing---
Come live in the Rio Grande Valley for a month, smack dab in the middle of the cartel wars. See what it's like. Then if you want you can say we don't need any militia presence here (US) to defend our borders. (We are US, too.) There isn't enough law enforcement for the crazy, horrible things going on out here...you have no idea...who's going to jump in? The minutemen left early on...guess even gun permits didn't give them balls to handle this...yes, I said balls...

And don't get me started on legalizing drugs. That's just not an option. Look around. How many people do you know right now that use/abuse ANY illegal substance(s)? I bet you know several...we all do...you really want to make it easier for them to use? Really? Wow.

Please dont' speak for us out here. Don't even take my word for it...come on down...okay, at least check out the AP stories in your local bigcity paper. Then look up www.TheMonitor.com and see on a daily basis the things that are really happening out here...


I may be back...

[AtLast]

Originally Posted by EzeeTiger

We went to that rally today at the Arizona state capital. There were lots of people there and lots of cops. I didn't see any people that were in favor of the senate bill 1070. It was very emotional when we first got there just reading the signs people had made, seeing the folks who brought their kids to particpate, people just banding together. Christine made an awesome sign which many people took pictures of.
Once we got home though thinking about the whole thing just makes me incredibly sad. I know everyone in this state is not a racist. Everything about this bill just feels so racist to me. I'm just so over it.

I certainly don't pin this on all citizens of Arizona, no way. This craziness is certainly not just in Arizona and that is why we all need to deal with these issues across the US. Wing-nut bigoted tea-bag, birther zealots are in every state. Believe me, I am not a very proud Californian when it comes to the immigration issues and our own nut-cakes here. Just thankful that soon we will say good-bye to Arnold... but, I doubt brown will be elected. We will probably have the GOP techie billionare elected.. well, she is buying the election.... And we do have to get our buns out there and be heard. Thanks for going to that rally. It is important that you personally gave your support.

[betenoire]

Originally Posted by LittleShug

And don't get me started on legalizing drugs. That's just not an option. Look around. How many people do you know right now that use/abuse ANY illegal substance(s)? I bet you know several...we all do...you really want to make it easier for them to use? Really? Wow.

You know...people are going to use drugs regardless. How many people who don't use drugs do you know that say "wow, if it were legal I would TOTALLY do heroine ALL the fucking time!"? None, right?

People who use will use, and people who don't use won't use. Legalizing the stuff isn't going to make a spit of difference.

Let the crap get legalized. Let the government standardize it. Make the drugs themselves safer (ie - not cut with something really scary) and go all gung-ho about harm reduction so people can use the drugs more "safely". Sell the shit for cheaper than the dealers do - there won't be dealers any more once it's no longer profitable. Hell, legalizing it would curb a world of drug trade related violence. It'd make things safer for everybody involved, and even for those who are uninvolved. Christ, TAX the stuff.

[Jess]

If there is always a good side to every bad situation, then perhaps this latest "maverick " action on the part of AZ goverment will FORCE congress/ senate to take more immediate action toward the simplifying the legalization process.

I fear that until the Fed government steps up and handles the business of running this country properly, more states ( particularly border states) will try to take the reigns in their own hands and we can see how that is working.

What we can do :

http://org2.democracyinaction.org/o/...ction_KEY=2481

[Canela]

Originally Posted by betenoire

You know...people are going to use drugs regardless. How many people who don't use drugs do you know that say "wow, if it were legal I would TOTALLY do heroine ALL the fucking time!"? None, right?

Neither you nor I don't really know that for sure do we? Do you want to take that chance?
People who use will use, and people who don't use won't use. Legalizing the stuff isn't going to make a spit of difference.
Again, you truly don't know that for sure. And of the people that do use, are you saying we should make it easier for them to use crack, heroin, ice, cheese and all the other variations of high addiction drugs to what, enjoy the freedom of purchase? You aren't thinking of the repercussions of those people who are already hooked. It would be like giving them a loaded gun. I mean really, picture your brother or sister on drugs, hooked, on the streets, then tell me again it would be okay to legalize that poison and let them have it cheaper to continue to indulge. That's not the way to eradicate these drug wars. You think the government isn't getting theirs? Where do you think all those vehicles and moneys garnished through arrests and checkpoints stops and what not don't benefit the government? It benefits local government as well as federal...everybody has their hand out...take a look at the public notices with intent to auction in Mcallen alone and see how many tote bags and bundles of monies sometimes in the 1/2 mil available for claim. lol..Nobody claims those. They go back into the system to fight "the war on drugs". Guess who pays taxes on that? Local gov who pays to federal in taxes or one way or the other...pharmaceuticals? They've been raping the people with no lube for that last several decades. What a crock. Legalize drugs, they freakin survive already and are an enterprising business even as the are illegal...making them legal will only make them more accessible. the lure of the drugs is that users make non users think they're cool. They are not. That's all it is. Movies like Scarface glamourized the trade and and now we have all paid the ultimate price and will continue to pay it, unless the Mexican government gets up off their lazy, cowardly behind and does something about it. Guess what, they won't. It's the way of the world over there...ever been? I grew up here on the border...I know what it's like...money talks...you should see the huge houses built out here, yet we live in one of the poorest counties in the US per capita...Hummers, Jags, BMWs, they are the biggest sellers out here and yet most of the purchasers are from where? You guessed it, Mexico...on the other hand, the housing market is going up very quickly out here...guess who is buying houses out here? Mexican nationals...yes, the cartels and the people who have a vested interest are making land purchases, funneleing their monies into real estate...(we don't say money laundering out here)...

Right now in the city of Reynosa, guess who runs the local police? The drug cartel. The foot soldiers (pistoleros) run the streets. they will block you in if you pass them up for going too slow and they will pull you over, investigate why you are in a hurry, and if your story isn't worthy, they will kill you on sight, and take your car, leave you on the side of the road and laugh about it over lunch. The police? They look the other way because they are bought and paid for by the cartles or risk losing their lives as is evident by the token sacrifice of the mayor of the city of Reynosa and his assassination last year to show the muscle of the cartel. Everybody was up in arms, local police, investigators and the judiciales (police in Reynosa). No one was prosecuted for this crime. This Is A True Story.
Let the crap get legalized. Let the government standardize it. Make the drugs themselves safer (ie - not cut with something really scary) and go all gung-ho about harm reduction so people can use the drugs more "safely". Sell the shit for cheaper than the dealers do - there won't be dealers any more once it's no longer profitable. Hell, legalizing it would curb a world of drug trade related violence. It'd make things safer for everybody involved, and even for those who are uninvolved. Christ, TAX the stuff.

The drugs will always be cut (wink* spoken like a a person with experience in street drugs)....whether you use or you deal, its not a good idea. People who use don't think about consequenses and people who sell drugs, don't care what those are...they are in it for the money...sad little people they are...they have no idea that fast money goes just as it comes and they don't see it...and if they do, they run to catch up to make more cuz greedy drug dealers always want more. They are no different than the government in my opinion. Lil Brother vs. Big Brother I don't know which is the more vile...think about that...if not for you, then at least for someone you care about. You may not think about it, but there are drugs dealer [kids age] in elementary schools and the like...and if you don't have kids, how about nieces and nephews...you really want to make street drugs readily available to them?

Legalizing would only bring on another set of problems, each bigger than the one now...and world trade violence will give way to some other trade soon enough...trust me, we have more important things to think about like getting deported and having one hell of a time trying to get back to our homeland like Cheech in that "Born in East LA" movie he was in years ago...

[Canela]

Re: Drug wars--and their effect on our borders...
http://www.themonitor.com/articles/m...es-grande.html

Re: Wonderful Rick Perry and his great ideas about curbing the border crossings...spoken like a true beureaucrat...
http://www.themonitor.com/articles/p...der-costs.html

Re: Fancy cars in the valley...
http://www.themonitor.com/articles/p...andy-cars.html

Re: Home Sales
http://www.themonitor.com/articles/s...les-style.html

Here you go, this is an opportunity to share your opinion on how to handle the border violence here in South Texas...(how desperate is that?)
http://www.themonitor.com/articles/s...der-input.html

And now, I want to apologize to the OP for the derail of this thread...unfortunately, generalized statements about ALL the US Mexico borders carry their own regional needs.....so not one idea will fit all areas....

[apretty]

littleshug: maybe you'd like to a thread on the subject of drugs, the pros and cons of legalization/government regulation vs. increasing the police/build a bigger wall or whatever you'd like.

'boycott arizona' and SB1070 are about *racial profiling* nothing more, nothing less. SB1070 is about creating a fascist police-state, dividing further an already fractured community in the state of arizona.

i understand that the topics of crime/drugs/economy/human trafficking are all *related* but they're frequently used to intentionally put blame on BROWN people which for some, justifies their underlying racist beliefs which leads to fascist laws like SB1070.

"never forget that everything Hitler did in Germany was legal." -MLK, Jr.

[AtLast]

OK.... feeling like I have to say something about the drug stuff. In thinking about this legislation and all of the aspects around immigration, what strikes me is how complex it is. When it gets into the drug/gang/cartel/arms and sex trafficking aspects and the violence... I know I need to hear what people deal with everyday in the areas hardest hit. And something I always see in these conversations is a very distinct difference between parents and non-parents. I might live a few miles from a city here in CA that has one of the highest rates of street murder among kids of color, but I don't get up every morning wondering if my kid will make it home from school. I didn't have this on me when I was raising my son even with the typical worries that parents have. A whole hell of a lot changes if you become a parent, no matter if biologically, via adoption, fostering, as a guardian or as a co-parent with a partner (Yup, making a point about all of the types of parenting!)

The fact of the matter is that illegal entry into the US (from both the northern and southern borders) involves drug and arms trafficking and then there are the sex trades that include children (all over the world).

All of this is intertwined in immigration issues. Its just there. Frankly, even if I agree with legalization of substances, I am not naive enough to believe that this will actually curtail the violence born out of drug use. The fact of the matter is that people under the influence make stupid choices often leading to violence. Impairment is impairment. people that are intent upon doing harm to others will do so no matter what drugs are legal or illegal. Look at alcohol use ...... how many times do we hear I was drunk as an excuse for behavior? How many people are killed each year due to alcohol related situations? How many rapes, molestations, etc? And at certain ages, alcohol is legal to use. But this doesn't change its effects or its addiction factors.

The crux of this whole matter isn't about drugs, its about racial profiling with idiotic, bigoted legislation like this one in AZ. A big part of this also has to do with big business and how it takes advantage of immigrant populations in order to increase profits- our labor laws. Directly related are the people smuggled into the US being treated like cattle and many dying awful deaths in an attempt to just find work.

We are at a critical time concerning immigration reform and need to figure out what will work now and in the future. The AZ legislation could become the catalyst for reform, finally. To me, the notion that some assbites have that all of the illegal immigrants that are here (which include non-Latinos as well) should be deported (or jailed) will solve the problems makes me nuts. A lot of these idiots base their opinions on economic statistics and how this population is draining resources (which is not based upon accurate data or considers the actual economic contributions made by most of these folks). The idea that deportation of from 11 to 15 million people would be cost effective is lunacy!! Total waste of funds that should go to real reform constructs that benefit all. A focus on this as part of immigration reform based upon the economic arguments is nothing more than an attempt to cover-up racism, plain and simple. But we all know that anything that smacks of amnesty will impede any federal attempt to deal with these issues. This will even be fought against by many organizations representing large numbers of Latino (and other) citizens that are pissed that they went through the proper channels in coming to the US.

This such a multi-faceted social and economic issue and is going to take a multi-faceted approach. Yet, it always gets bogged down and I think, is planted during election years! These mid-term elections coming up seem to me to be mainly about white anger and having a non-white president and the GOP taking back power in Congress. These jackasses aren’t thinking about the day to day lives and struggles the common citizenry are going through.

I feel that it is so important to stay focused with the core issues when it comes to immigration reform. Otherwise it continues to spin into oblivion and never gets dealt with in any meaningful way. We have to start somewhere and get somewhere!

[Canela]

Originally Posted by apretty

littleshug: maybe you'd like to a thread on the subject of drugs, the pros and cons of legalization/government regulation vs. increasing the police/build a bigger wall or whatever you'd like.

'boycott arizona' and SB1070 are about *racial profiling* nothing more, nothing less. SB1070 is about creating a fascist police-state, dividing further an already fractured community in the state of arizona.

i understand that the topics of crime/drugs/economy/human trafficking are all *related* but they're frequently used to intentionally put blame on BROWN people which for some, justifies their underlying racist beliefs which leads to fascist laws like SB1070.

"never forget that everything Hitler did in Germany was legal." -MLK, Jr.

apretty,

I apologized for my derail. I responded to someone who quoted only that part of my original post. Funny, I don't see you reply to his post to me.

[MsDemeanor]

I agree that the legalization topic should be a new thread. So far we've managed to stay fairly drama free, and I'm hoping to keep it that way. There's been a lot of good information and insight so far.

[Soon]

[nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wo3wrwqHOZw&feature=player_embedded"]YouTube- Kristol praises new AZ immigration law[/nomedia]


of course, the white guys cannot believe that a POC would be stopped due to their brown skin or Hispanic accent (with the one person who IS a POC tellling them, umm...no, they will!)

[UofMfan]

Originally Posted by LittleShug

I gotta speak.

What a heinous thing Brewer has done. I am definitely boycotting Arizona...was going out there this summer for a family reunion but now, I don't think so...My family and I are visibly hispanic, you think I'm going to take a chance with my kids?

One more thing---
Come live in the Rio Grande Valley for a month, smack dab in the middle of the cartel wars. See what it's like. Then if you want you can say we don't need any militia presence here (US) to defend our borders. (We are US, too.) There isn't enough law enforcement for the crazy, horrible things going on out here...you have no idea...who's going to jump in? The minutemen left early on...guess even gun permits didn't give them balls to handle this...yes, I said balls...

And don't get me started on legalizing drugs. That's just not an option. Look around. How many people do you know right now that use/abuse ANY illegal substance(s)? I bet you know several...we all do...you really want to make it easier for them to use? Really? Wow.

Please dont' speak for us out here. Don't even take my word for it...come on down...okay, at least check out the AP stories in your local bigcity paper. Then look up www.TheMonitor.com and see on a daily basis the things that are really happening out here...


I may be back...

It is one thing to have US troops in US territory, quite another to suggest they be sent INTO Mexico.

I am well aware of what is happening there.

As for the legalization issue, I think I read somewhere that it should be discussed in a separate thread. I am game, anyone else?

[weatherboi]

i am totally up for the discussion of decrimializing marijuana

Originally Posted by UofMfan

It is one thing to have US troops in US territory, quite another to suggest they be sent INTO Mexico.

I am well aware of what is happening there.

As for the legalization issue, I think I read somewhere that it should be discussed in a separate thread. I am game, anyone else?