Legalization of drugs, pros and cons!

[betenoire]

I can't find the original post, but in the other thread someone alluded to the fact that you can tell who has children and who doesn't have children based on their stance on this subject.

I really -really- just need to say that I don't think that's a fair statement to make at all. My choosing not to become a parent has no relation at all to my political or morale stance. On this issue or -any- issue.

[MsDemeanor]

Originally Posted by betenoire

I can't find the original post, but in the other thread someone alluded to the fact that you can tell who has children and who doesn't have children based on their stance on this subject.

I really -really- just need to say that I don't think that's a fair statement to make at all. My choosing not to become a parent has no relation at all to my political or morale stance. On this issue or -any- issue.

Absolutely. If there were any truth to the nonsense that there's a correlation between one's stance on drugs and one's parental status, then there wouldn't be any junkie parents in the world.

[UofMfan]

Originally Posted by betenoire

I can't find the original post, but in the other thread someone alluded to the fact that you can tell who has children and who doesn't have children based on their stance on this subject.

I really -really- just need to say that I don't think that's a fair statement to make at all. My choosing not to become a parent has no relation at all to my political or morale stance. On this issue or -any- issue.

Really? I want to see that. Could you find it for me?

I have made a few posts on this forum referencing my son, so yeah I have one, and my stance is not based on that fact, nor does it or did it change my stand.

I can't believe someone would make such a blanket statement.

[Jess]

Originally Posted by betenoire

I can't find the original post, but in the other thread someone alluded to the fact that you can tell who has children and who doesn't have children based on their stance on this subject.

I really -really- just need to say that I don't think that's a fair statement to make at all. My choosing not to become a parent has no relation at all to my political or morale stance. On this issue or -any- issue.

Can you however say the same thing for the addicted woman who is raped, used, or too high to know better who ends up pregnant as a result of needing that fix?

How will making these drugs readily available without consequence change that? I am just really boggled.

[UofMfan]

Originally Posted by Jess

Can you however say the same thing for the addicted woman who is raped, used, or too high to know better who ends up pregnant as a result of needing that fix?

How will making these drugs readily available without consequence change that? I am just really boggled.

I think anyone who is raped, no matter what the circumstances where, should have the option of having an abortion. That is another topic.

Someone could be raped not just because they are high on drugs, so this statement boggles my mind.

Drugs are readily available now, it is just more dangerous and more expensive to get them. Shouldn't THAT be a deterrent to those who are addicted? It obviously isn't.

[Jess]

Originally Posted by UofMfan

I think anyone who is raped, no matter what the circumstances where, should have the option of having an abortion. That is another topic.

Someone could be raped not just because they are high on drugs, so this statement boggles my mind.

Drugs are readily available now, it is just more dangerous and more expensive to get them. Shouldn't THAT be a deterrent to those who are addicted? It obviously isn't.

Yes, absolutely someone can be raped without drugs being involved. It is an act of violence as well as opportunity. Unfortunately, the "opportunity" aspect increases dramatically under the influence of drugs. Yes, indeed a topic for another discussion.

Yes, agreed it should be a deterrent, just like vomiting with heroin would make normal folks go "ewwwwwwwww". However, in the throes of addiction folks will do insane things to get that "high". Why make such detrimental outcomes that much easier? Why not focus the energy into healthier options? Like equal human rights? Something that creates CORE issues within folks who turn to drugs out of debased self esteem? Like REAL healthcare.. something that sends chronic pain patients to street drugs for relief?

Go to the REAL shit instead of the bogus trappings is all i am thinking.

I agree with your points and truly do appreciate the discourse.

[SuperFemme]

Drug addicts are humans too. Legalizing drugs just might give them a chance at equality.

BTW, its lack of heroin that makes one vomit. Same with vicodin or any other opiate based pain reliever. Chronic pain patients are treated like criminals at the local pharmacy every day...

[UofMfan]

Originally Posted by Jess

Yes, absolutely someone can be raped without drugs being involved. It is an act of violence as well as opportunity. Unfortunately, the "opportunity" aspect increases dramatically under the influence of drugs. Yes, indeed a topic for another discussion.

Yes, agreed it should be a deterrent, just like vomiting with heroin would make normal folks go "ewwwwwwwww". However, in the throes of addiction folks will do insane things to get that "high". Why make such detrimental outcomes that much easier? Why not focus the energy into healthier options? Like equal human rights? Something that creates CORE issues within folks who turn to drugs out of debased self esteem? Like REAL healthcare.. something that sends chronic pain patients to street drugs for relief?

Go to the REAL shit instead of the bogus trappings is all i am thinking.

I agree with your points and truly do appreciate the discourse.

Thank you for engaging.

Here is the way I see this, and this doesn't mean it is the ONLY way or the RIGHT way to see it, it simply means this is the way I see it. Instead of saying, "Why make such detrimental outcomes that much easier?" and I quote you, I say, why not make such a detrimental outcome that much safer?

I think that we agree that addiction sees no deterrents, or at least that is what I see by your post. So, if there are no deterrents, why not make it safer? Why not supply more help where it counts, as in counseling?

I am not an expert, this is jut my opinion.

As for the other issues I agree, we need real health care, we need Human Rights to be Equal rights, but I don't see how this applies to addiction. Perhaps you can help me with that.

[Jess]

Originally Posted by UofMfan

Thank you for engaging.

Here is the way I see this, and this doesn't mean it is the ONLY way or the RIGHT way to see it, it simply means this is the way I see it. Instead of saying, "Why make such detrimental outcomes that much easier?" and I quote you, I say, why not make such a detrimental outcome that much safer?

I think that we agree that addiction sees no deterrents, or at least that is what I see by your post. So, if there are no deterrents, why not make it safer? Why not supply more help where it counts, as in counseling?

I am not an expert, this is jut my opinion.

As for the other issues I agree, we need real health care, we need Human Rights to be Equal rights, but I don't see how this applies to addiction. Perhaps you can help me with that.

Sure. And thanks. I DO see a correlation between drug abuse and core issues such as self esteem/ poverty/ childhood abuse.. the list goes on. How many addicts do you know grew up with a complete sense of self? That "something" wasn't wrong with them in their sense of self worth? ALL of the core issues stem from feeling less than and seeking an easy way to "escape" that dark place.

Whether it being gay/ poor/ of color/ differently abled.. such a huge part of our country grows up feeling "othered" as it were that they seek solace in drugs/ alcohol/ sex. As adults we see it as "choice", but as a child who starts using early on, it is just surviving.

Make marijuana legal, sure. It has it's place. As for the rest, keep it illegal and force our legislators to step up and do the right thing for our people. Make discrimination in all forms illegal. Make education the priority for our youth and stop wasting funds on bullshit like sports., or 6 billion for NASA when we have such high unemployment. Tax corporations who send our jobs overseas and use slave labor in other countries while our people are without jobs. Bust up labor unions , which had their purpose in the beginnings but now just price common labor too high for companies to pay, while all of the rights that were needed back in the day are part of equal employment opportunity. We have no need for the high cost of unions today., Half of the folks are unemployed part of the year anyway cause they are on strike. Make immigration easier for folks truly just trying to make a new start.

We have so many common sense things that can be done to make America safe and profitable again and we are weighlayed daily by our "elected" officials. I don't think we are as "under-informed" as folks like to say, moreover we are over-stimulated by floods of half truths coming at us from every direction. More folks need to settle down and look around them and see what really is "real".

What is real is that we need to do away with the two party system as neither are any longer what they say they are. We need to do away with the electoral college ( cause no one is unable to vote anymore which was it's purpose) and the public vote can truly count again. We need to demand resumes from our candidates and see what the hell they have really done and not vote by popularity. If we truly want to be a country run by the people/ for the people, then the people need to get off our ass and hold our representatives responsible to carry out our wishes.

My opinions only and sorry to blurt them out here, I just see so many circular conversations regarding similar ( though worded differently) situations that it makes my skin crawl.

[UofMfan]

Originally Posted by Jess

Sure. And thanks. I DO see a correlation between drug abuse and core issues such as self esteem/ poverty/ childhood abuse.. the list goes on. How many addicts do you know grew up with a complete sense of self? That "something" wasn't wrong with them in their sense of self worth? ALL of the core issues stem from feeling less than and seeking an easy way to "escape" that dark place.

Whether it being gay/ poor/ of color/ differently abled.. such a huge part of our country grows up feeling "othered" as it were that they seek solace in drugs/ alcohol/ sex. As adults we see it as "choice", but as a child who starts using early on, it is just surviving.

Make marijuana legal, sure. It has it's place. As for the rest, keep it illegal and force our legislators to step up and do the right thing for our people. Make discrimination in all forms illegal. Make education the priority for our youth and stop wasting funds on bullshit like sports., or 6 billion for NASA when we have such high unemployment. Tax corporations who send our jobs overseas and use slave labor in other countries while our people are without jobs. Bust up labor unions , which had their purpose in the beginnings but now just price common labor too high for companies to pay, while all of the rights that were needed back in the day are part of equal employment opportunity. We have no need for the high cost of unions today., Half of the folks are unemployed part of the year anyway cause they are on strike. Make immigration easier for folks truly just trying to make a new start.

We have so many common sense things that can be done to make America safe and profitable again and we are weighlayed daily by our "elected" officials. I don't think we are as "under-informed" as folks like to say, moreover we are over-stimulated by floods of half truths coming at us from every direction. More folks need to settle down and look around them and see what really is "real".

What is real is that we need to do away with the two party system as neither are any longer what they say they are. We need to do away with the electoral college ( cause no one is unable to vote anymore which was it's purpose) and the public vote can truly count again. We need to demand resumes from our candidates and see what the hell they have really done and not vote by popularity. If we truly want to be a country run by the people/ for the people, then the people need to get off our ass and hold our representatives responsible to carry out our wishes.

My opinions only and sorry to blurt them out here, I just see so many circular conversations regarding similar ( though worded differently) situations that it makes my skin crawl.

There are a lot of good points in your post, but I am going to start with those in bold because they struck a chord with me.

The same can be said for those of us who grew up like that but did not turn out to be addicts, thank God.

I think addiction is a disease, at times it is also hereditary. I am not a addict, so I am not coming from a place of experience of knowing, What I know I have read or learned while working in paces that do deal with addition. I came across a lot of addicts that came from affluent families and who where never exposed to abuse of any kind. So what made them addicts?

To me Human Rights and Equal rights mean different than to you, and that is OK. We simply see things different.

The other part that I highlighted I did because Bullshit like sports kept me away from drugs and alcohol and I know from my life experience and all those thousands of kids that later on I helped through sports, that it did the same from them. So I humbly disagree with that statement, wholeheartedly.

You make a lot of other points that I do agree with, but one, they are off topic and two I have a sugar induced headache. So perhaps at another time I can engage fully on those.

[betenoire]

Originally Posted by UofMfan

Really? I want to see that. Could you find it for me?

I pm'd you the quote and post number.

Originally Posted by Jess

Can you however say the same thing for the addicted woman who is raped, used, or too high to know better who ends up pregnant as a result of needing that fix?

You are completely missing my point. My point being that being a parent or not being a parent has NO correlation to my (or anybodies) political or moral ideas. HOW someone becomes a parent doesn't change this.

How will making these drugs readily available without consequence change that? I am just really boggled.

Change what? Change the fact that not having children is irrelevant to my thoughts/feelings on the subject? Again, you are missing my point and not making any sense.

Now I shall go walk to the grocery store. Toodles, bfp-people.

[Jess]

Originally Posted by betenoire

I pm'd you the quote and post number.



You are completely missing my point. My point being that being a parent or not being a parent has NO correlation to my (or anybodies) political or moral ideas. HOW someone becomes a parent doesn't change this.



Change what? Change the fact that not having children is irrelevant to my thoughts/feelings on the subject? Again, you are missing my point and not making any sense.

Now I shall go walk to the grocery store. Toodles, bfp-people.

I do get your point and agree that "choosing" to not have children is not an immoral act. It is a choice. I chose the same. My point was for addicts, sometimes those options aren't there. They are victims to their disease. Period.