Ebola, news and discussion

DapperButch · 10-16-2014, 05:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TruTexan

They also transported the newest nurse that's become ill with Ebola to Atlanta to be treated there in a biocontainment hospital that's already been in place. But the thing is, she called the CDC with a low grade fever the day she flew, she had 99.5 degree fever, and asked if she could still fly or not, and someone from the CDC told her she could.

I just wanted to highlight this, as I think it is significant. I saw this last night on Maddow and actually popped on the thread to pass along this information.

*Anya* · 10-16-2014, 08:13 AM

Many American hospitals have improperly trained their staffs to deal with Ebola patients because they were following federal guidelines that were too lax, infection control experts said on Wednesday.

Federal health officials effectively acknowledged the problems with their procedures for protecting health care workers by abruptly changing them. At 8 p.m. Tuesday, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention issued stricter guidelines for American hospitals with Ebola patients.

They are now closer to the procedures of Doctors Without Borders, which has decades of experience in fighting Ebola in Africa. In issuing the new guidelines, the C.D.C. acknowledged that its experts had learned by working alongside that medical charity.

The agency’s new voluntary guidelines include full-body suits covering the head and neck, supervision of the risky process of taking off protective gear, and the use of hand disinfectant as each item is removed.

Sean G. Kaufman, who oversaw infection control at Emory University Hospital while it treated Dr. Kent Brantly and Nancy Writebol, the first two American Ebola patients, called the earlier C.D.C. guidelines “absolutely irresponsible and dead wrong.”

Speaking by phone from Liberia, where he was training workers for Samaritan’s Purse, the medical charity that Dr. Brantly and Ms. Writebol worked for, Mr. Kaufman said he had warned the agency as recently as a week ago that its guidelines were lax.

“They kind of blew me off,” he said. “I’m happy to see they’re changing them, but it’s late.”

Melissa Brower, a C.D.C. spokeswoman, said the agency was “taking a hard look at our recommendations and may be making changes.”

Dr. Thomas R. Frieden, the director of the C.D.C., expressed regret about his agency’s initial response to the first Ebola case in Dallas.

“In retrospect, with 20/20 hindsight,” he said a few hours before his agency tightened its guidelines, “we could have sent a more robust hospital infection control team and been more hands-on with the hospital from Day 1.”

Some major hospitals, aware of the inadequacy of the older C.D.C. guidelines, have followed more stringent standards in training their staff. But many — including Texas Health Presbyterian Hospital in Dallas, where two nurses were infected by a dying patient — have not.

The Doctors Without Borders guidelines are even stricter than the new C.D.C. directives in that they require full coverage of the torso, head and legs with fabrics that blood or vomit cannot soak through, along with rubber aprons, goggles or face shields, sealed wrists and rubber boots. Doctors and nurses wear two sets of gloves, including long outer ones that strap or are taped to the gown; janitors wear three sets.

As they undress in choreographed steps, Doctors Without Borders workers wash their hands with chlorine solution eight times and are sprayed with a chlorine mist. Most important, all personnel disrobe only under the eyes of a supervisor whose job is to prevent even a single misstep.

Risky procedures like blood sampling are kept to a minimum.

“I’ve seen the C.D.C. poster,” said a Doctors Without Borders representative who spoke on the condition of anonymity because she did not want to be named criticizing the agency, and who was referring to C.D.C. guidelines before they were changed on Tuesday. “It doesn’t say anywhere that it’s for Ebola. I was surprised that it was only one set of gloves, and the rest bare hands. It seems to be for general cases of infectious disease.”

National Nurses United, the country’s largest union and professional association of nurses, with 185,000 members, criticized the C.D.C. on Wednesday for taking so long. Worse, the union said, many hospitals ignored even the lax guidelines because they were voluntary.

For example, the union said, nurses at the Texas hospital complained that the protective gear the hospital issued left their necks exposed — and they were told to wrap their necks with medical tape.

“They were learning infection control on the fly,” said DeAnn McEwen, chief of infection control for the union. “That’s no substitute for planning.”

Nurses United called for federal and state laws making C.D.C. guidelines mandatory.

Changes to Ebola Protection Worn by U.S. Hospital Workers
Officials from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention announced changes Tuesday to existing federal guidelines for the gear worn by hospital workers caring for patients with Ebola. Some hospitals already had more stringent protections in place.

While Dr. Frieden has been criticized for arguing that almost any American hospital can handle Ebola patients and critics have demanded that all Ebola patients go to special isolation units, that debate is somewhat misguided, experts said.

The isolation units — which have filtered air, double doors and negative pressure — were built to prevent the spread of airborne diseases like SARS and tuberculosis.

The greater Ebola danger is large amounts of blood, vomit or diarrhea splashing caregivers. That is prevented by training, proper protective gear, rigorous cleaning and close supervision, specialists said.

Ebola victims resemble cholera victims in some ways.

In Bangladesh, which trains doctors all over the world in cholera treatment, hospitals do not place cholera patients on padded mattresses with bedpans. They usually lie on rubber sheets stretched across bed frames with holes cut so diarrhea can run out into buckets.

Doctors Without Borders personnel place buckets or chamber pots under patients. Its protocols require cleaning pools of fluid not by mopping, but by spraying them with chlorine and then throwing large absorbent cloths over them. Like doctors, janitors work in pairs, watching over each other.

All infected materials are immediately burned, sometimes in a field right behind the hospital. Reusable rubber items like aprons and boots are cleaned with detergent and bleach. One important Doctors Without Borders step — chlorine sprays — could be dangerous inside hospitals because it would make corridors slippery.

A step considered vital — which the new C.D.C. guidelines now include — is having a sharp-eyed “site supervisor” constantly watching for errors.

“The buddy system works for getting dressed, but not for getting undressed,” said Dr. William Fisher II, a critical care specialist from the University of North Carolina who worked in a Doctors Without Borders center in Guinea this summer and said he was now designing training for the C.D.C.

Doctors go into wards feeling fresh, he explained. But they emerge an hour later exhausted, sweating and sometimes shaking from a close call, like one he had when a patient grabbed his mask.

In the exit area, he said, “there was someone in charge whose sole focus was helping you get undressed safely.”

“You stood in front of them and did nothing until they said so,” he said. “They didn’t care if it was your first time or your 800th time. I was exhausted and emotionally drained. I looked forward to it.”

Initial Doctors Without Borders training takes two to five days, followed by three to six weeks of supervised work.

The nurses’ group, which is unfamiliar with those protocols, sent a letter to the White House on Wednesday demanding the adoption of the standards used by the University of Nebraska Medical Center with some enhancements.

That hospital is a designated isolation center, and its guidelines resemble those of Doctors Without Borders in some ways. A recent update to them called for head and neck hoods and the wiping of rubber clogs with bleach. The nurses’ union also demanded hazardous materials suits and powered air-purifying respirators.

Those can be cumbersome and claustrophobic, and the Nebraska guidelines treat them as recommended, not as standard.

A version of this article appears in print on October 16, 2014, on page A18 of the New York edition with the headline: Lax U.S. Guidelines on Ebola Led to Poor Hospital Training, Experts Say. Order Reprints|Today's Paper|Subscribe

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/16/us...-say.html?_r=0

Kobi · 10-16-2014, 11:08 AM

I know people are really concerned about this issue. And, it isnt an easy one.

I do think we need to understand this is a process of adapting what works in the field in West Africa and what is going to fly in the American health system. Supportive care in other places is not the same as what Americans expect of supportive care in the USA.

Doctors without Borders and other such groups, as stated in Anyas post, do things or dont do things that work for them. Using a stretched plastic sheet, rather than a mattress, with the bum cut out so bodily fluids can go directly in a bucket spares health workers from exposure. Limiting of blood draws works for them. Doctors without Borders also refuse to do invasive procedures i.e. they do not ventilate people having respiratory problems, they do not do hemodialysis, they will not even operate on pregnant women because of the risk of exposure to body fluids. Ebola crisis puts pressure on human rights.

How do you think that will fly in the USA? Will patients, their families, the politicians, the media, health care providers, and risk management insurers be ok with people laying on plastic sheets with the bum cut out so they can poop and pee in a bucket? Will we be ok not intubating people who are struggling to breathe? Will we be ok not using dialysis when kidneys are failing? Are we ok with using IV's as long as we have viable veins and letting it go when we dont....or are we going to insist on central lines? Do we insist on doing everything possible and using all available technology even in the face of inevitable death? Yeah, we do and it has nothing to do with ebola.

Do Americans like being told to voluntarily quarantine themselves? Apparently not. Do Americans like being inconvenienced in any way? Hell no. Do Americans comply when told not to do things which risk exposure to other people? Seriously, we are too self centered for that.

Were mistakes made when ebola arrived in Texas? Yes. Big ones it seems. Are changes being made to adjust to the emerging reality? Yes. Big ones it seems. Are dedicated centers better equipped to deal with the overall care of people with ebola. Yes. Does this absolve local health care centers from being able to diagnose, quarantine, and provide initial care? No.

This is a process. It requires patience.

TruTexan · 10-16-2014, 05:06 PM

Just on the Dallas Breaking News( interruption of tv's ABC World news),

Ebola Patient Nina Pham, the 1st nurse infected, is going to Maryland Hospital for treatment. She will land in Bethesda Maryland from Dallas Love Field, and is in the ambulance on the way to the airport.

On other news, a Presbytarian Hospital Nurse being monitored for symptoms, in Dallas, where Duncan was treated is making claims in public as a nurse whistleblower to ABC World News, that there was chaos among the healthcare staff at the hospital and no training for Ebola safety and that the PPE provided by the hospital, left the nursing staff's necks exposed.
ABC World News has also reported that the 2nd nurse( Vinson) had symptoms of illness the day she first flew from Dallas to Cleveland, Ohio, so the CDC is trying to track down all the people she came into contact with during that first flight on Frontier Airlines and other people she came into contact with like the wedding planners and stores she may have gone to while in Cleveland, OH.

There is an abundance of cautionary steps being taken to try to stop the chain of events that could happen from exposure to the public, so it may seem that we are not getting all the information from the news in a timely manner. There is so much going on that they are scrambling to do and learning to do that we as a public feel like they aren't telling us everything.
I think they are telling us as much as they can as soon as they find out what is going on, for how long, who's sick, what training is happening to prepare for this better, etc.
This is certainly a learning process for our healthcare system from the mistakes made by the Hospital in Dallas, and from the CDC in the US. I just hope they can correct and learn from the mistakes made so that no more mistakes are made in the future. I hope they are ACTING on those mistakes to correct everything.

There is a lack of confidence in the system right now from the public and a lot of fear.

pamela · 10-16-2014, 05:14 PM

there is no need to worry about Ebola just yet. nature will find a way to get to us

BrutalDaddy · 10-16-2014, 05:45 PM

I do not consider myself a hysterical or paranoid person (at least not when it comes to diseases and things of that nature, now spiders? that's a whole 'nother story), but I do consider myself a worrier and very cautious.

If I were living and working at home, the worry and cautious part of me wouldn't be getting ramped up little by little with each passing day. However my job has me traveling to nearly every state within our country. There are times I literally go through three to four states in a day. Usually making stops in each for bathroom and eating purposes.

Hell, when ebola was first discovered in Dallas, I had JUST left the city three days prior. Only to find myself back there for, in and out, three days. I come into contact with tons of people every single day. That in itself isn't a big deal except for the fact that (and I hate to say this but it's true) a lot of these folks don't use daily, proper hygiene. I've seen it over and over. Don't wash their hands, cough without covering their mouths or sneeze really hard then wipe their hand on the counter as they're waiting in line in front of me. I've even seen them pick their noses then wipe whatever they find on the closest surface they can find.

It's things like above that cause me to worry and be hyper vigilant in my own sanitizing. So when a new case pops up and then it's out that one of those cases happened to fly with a bunch of people while having symptoms, it really does worry me. All it would take is for ONE over the road driver, like myself, to get it and that will be a bad, bad deal.

All I can do for now is sanitize my shoes before I enter my truck (yes, I do this and yes I get looks. Frankly I don't give a fuck) and wipe my hands down with bleach. Sure my truck smells like a janitor's closet but I'd rather be hyper vigilant/cautious/worried then end up with something that could do serious harm to myself or my family.

If that makes me a paranoid and/or a hysterical guy, that's okay. I'm cool with that. But until the government gets it's shit together and starts educating people, mass panic/hysteria will set in. Education is the KEY. Without it, no one knows what the fuck to do to stay safe and healthy.

Just My Opinion,
Brute.

cricket26 · 10-16-2014, 08:33 PM

so i did not sleep well last nite...i kept thinking about the possible declaration of emergency...i would not even let my daughter drop her dog off to be "fixed" at the vet because the vet is 3 miles from presby...and i was afraid the dog would be stuck at the vet for 21 days....

well there was no declaration of emergency...but we have finally come to the conclusion that dallas is not the best place to treat this devastating disease, patients are being transported to 2 of the only 4 hospitals designed to handle this deadly disease...patient number 1 is going to maryland and patient number 2 is going to georgia....

for now self monitoring of the family of patient zero, healthcare workers at presby, passengers of flight 1143, and several school closings due to children being on frontier flight 1143....and prayers for the two nurses being treated...

10-16-2014, 08:13 AM	#2
Anya Infamous Member How Do You Identify?: Lesbian non-stone femme Preferred Pronoun?: She, her Relationship Status: Committed to being good to myself Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: West Coast Posts: 8,258 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 39,306 Thanked 40,444 Times in 7,285 Posts Rep Power: 21474858	Lax U.S. Guidelines on Ebola Led to Poor Hospital Training, Experts Say Many American hospitals have improperly trained their staffs to deal with Ebola patients because they were following federal guidelines that were too lax, infection control experts said on Wednesday. Federal health officials effectively acknowledged the problems with their procedures for protecting health care workers by abruptly changing them. At 8 p.m. Tuesday, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention issued stricter guidelines for American hospitals with Ebola patients. They are now closer to the procedures of Doctors Without Borders, which has decades of experience in fighting Ebola in Africa. In issuing the new guidelines, the C.D.C. acknowledged that its experts had learned by working alongside that medical charity. The agency’s new voluntary guidelines include full-body suits covering the head and neck, supervision of the risky process of taking off protective gear, and the use of hand disinfectant as each item is removed. Sean G. Kaufman, who oversaw infection control at Emory University Hospital while it treated Dr. Kent Brantly and Nancy Writebol, the first two American Ebola patients, called the earlier C.D.C. guidelines “absolutely irresponsible and dead wrong.” Speaking by phone from Liberia, where he was training workers for Samaritan’s Purse, the medical charity that Dr. Brantly and Ms. Writebol worked for, Mr. Kaufman said he had warned the agency as recently as a week ago that its guidelines were lax. “They kind of blew me off,” he said. “I’m happy to see they’re changing them, but it’s late.” Melissa Brower, a C.D.C. spokeswoman, said the agency was “taking a hard look at our recommendations and may be making changes.” Dr. Thomas R. Frieden, the director of the C.D.C., expressed regret about his agency’s initial response to the first Ebola case in Dallas. “In retrospect, with 20/20 hindsight,” he said a few hours before his agency tightened its guidelines, “we could have sent a more robust hospital infection control team and been more hands-on with the hospital from Day 1.” Some major hospitals, aware of the inadequacy of the older C.D.C. guidelines, have followed more stringent standards in training their staff. But many — including Texas Health Presbyterian Hospital in Dallas, where two nurses were infected by a dying patient — have not. The Doctors Without Borders guidelines are even stricter than the new C.D.C. directives in that they require full coverage of the torso, head and legs with fabrics that blood or vomit cannot soak through, along with rubber aprons, goggles or face shields, sealed wrists and rubber boots. Doctors and nurses wear two sets of gloves, including long outer ones that strap or are taped to the gown; janitors wear three sets. As they undress in choreographed steps, Doctors Without Borders workers wash their hands with chlorine solution eight times and are sprayed with a chlorine mist. Most important, all personnel disrobe only under the eyes of a supervisor whose job is to prevent even a single misstep. Risky procedures like blood sampling are kept to a minimum. “I’ve seen the C.D.C. poster,” said a Doctors Without Borders representative who spoke on the condition of anonymity because she did not want to be named criticizing the agency, and who was referring to C.D.C. guidelines before they were changed on Tuesday. “It doesn’t say anywhere that it’s for Ebola. I was surprised that it was only one set of gloves, and the rest bare hands. It seems to be for general cases of infectious disease.” National Nurses United, the country’s largest union and professional association of nurses, with 185,000 members, criticized the C.D.C. on Wednesday for taking so long. Worse, the union said, many hospitals ignored even the lax guidelines because they were voluntary. For example, the union said, nurses at the Texas hospital complained that the protective gear the hospital issued left their necks exposed — and they were told to wrap their necks with medical tape. “They were learning infection control on the fly,” said DeAnn McEwen, chief of infection control for the union. “That’s no substitute for planning.” Nurses United called for federal and state laws making C.D.C. guidelines mandatory. Changes to Ebola Protection Worn by U.S. Hospital Workers Officials from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention announced changes Tuesday to existing federal guidelines for the gear worn by hospital workers caring for patients with Ebola. Some hospitals already had more stringent protections in place. While Dr. Frieden has been criticized for arguing that almost any American hospital can handle Ebola patients and critics have demanded that all Ebola patients go to special isolation units, that debate is somewhat misguided, experts said. The isolation units — which have filtered air, double doors and negative pressure — were built to prevent the spread of airborne diseases like SARS and tuberculosis. The greater Ebola danger is large amounts of blood, vomit or diarrhea splashing caregivers. That is prevented by training, proper protective gear, rigorous cleaning and close supervision, specialists said. Ebola victims resemble cholera victims in some ways. In Bangladesh, which trains doctors all over the world in cholera treatment, hospitals do not place cholera patients on padded mattresses with bedpans. They usually lie on rubber sheets stretched across bed frames with holes cut so diarrhea can run out into buckets. Doctors Without Borders personnel place buckets or chamber pots under patients. Its protocols require cleaning pools of fluid not by mopping, but by spraying them with chlorine and then throwing large absorbent cloths over them. Like doctors, janitors work in pairs, watching over each other. All infected materials are immediately burned, sometimes in a field right behind the hospital. Reusable rubber items like aprons and boots are cleaned with detergent and bleach. One important Doctors Without Borders step — chlorine sprays — could be dangerous inside hospitals because it would make corridors slippery. A step considered vital — which the new C.D.C. guidelines now include — is having a sharp-eyed “site supervisor” constantly watching for errors. “The buddy system works for getting dressed, but not for getting undressed,” said Dr. William Fisher II, a critical care specialist from the University of North Carolina who worked in a Doctors Without Borders center in Guinea this summer and said he was now designing training for the C.D.C. Doctors go into wards feeling fresh, he explained. But they emerge an hour later exhausted, sweating and sometimes shaking from a close call, like one he had when a patient grabbed his mask. In the exit area, he said, “there was someone in charge whose sole focus was helping you get undressed safely.” “You stood in front of them and did nothing until they said so,” he said. “They didn’t care if it was your first time or your 800th time. I was exhausted and emotionally drained. I looked forward to it.” Initial Doctors Without Borders training takes two to five days, followed by three to six weeks of supervised work. The nurses’ group, which is unfamiliar with those protocols, sent a letter to the White House on Wednesday demanding the adoption of the standards used by the University of Nebraska Medical Center with some enhancements. That hospital is a designated isolation center, and its guidelines resemble those of Doctors Without Borders in some ways. A recent update to them called for head and neck hoods and the wiping of rubber clogs with bleach. The nurses’ union also demanded hazardous materials suits and powered air-purifying respirators. Those can be cumbersome and claustrophobic, and the Nebraska guidelines treat them as recommended, not as standard. A version of this article appears in print on October 16, 2014, on page A18 of the New York edition with the headline: Lax U.S. Guidelines on Ebola Led to Poor Hospital Training, Experts Say. Order Reprints\|Today's Paper\|Subscribe http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/16/us...-say.html?_r=0 __________________ ~Anya~ Democracy Dies in Darkness ~Washington Post "...I'm deeply concerned by recently adopted policies which punish children for their parents’ actions ... The thought that any State would seek to deter parents by inflicting such abuse on children is unconscionable." UN Human Rights commissioner

10-16-2014, 05:06 PM	#4
TruTexan Senior Member How Do You Identify?: lesbian butch Preferred Pronoun?: She Relationship Status: Single Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: in a one horse town in a large state, in the U.S. Posts: 3,952 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 6,112 Thanked 5,268 Times in 1,633 Posts Rep Power: 21474852	Just on the Dallas Breaking News( interruption of tv's ABC World news), Ebola Patient Nina Pham, the 1st nurse infected, is going to Maryland Hospital for treatment. She will land in Bethesda Maryland from Dallas Love Field, and is in the ambulance on the way to the airport. On other news, a Presbytarian Hospital Nurse being monitored for symptoms, in Dallas, where Duncan was treated is making claims in public as a nurse whistleblower to ABC World News, that there was chaos among the healthcare staff at the hospital and no training for Ebola safety and that the PPE provided by the hospital, left the nursing staff's necks exposed. ABC World News has also reported that the 2nd nurse( Vinson) had symptoms of illness the day she first flew from Dallas to Cleveland, Ohio, so the CDC is trying to track down all the people she came into contact with during that first flight on Frontier Airlines and other people she came into contact with like the wedding planners and stores she may have gone to while in Cleveland, OH. There is an abundance of cautionary steps being taken to try to stop the chain of events that could happen from exposure to the public, so it may seem that we are not getting all the information from the news in a timely manner. There is so much going on that they are scrambling to do and learning to do that we as a public feel like they aren't telling us everything. I think they are telling us as much as they can as soon as they find out what is going on, for how long, who's sick, what training is happening to prepare for this better, etc. This is certainly a learning process for our healthcare system from the mistakes made by the Hospital in Dallas, and from the CDC in the US. I just hope they can correct and learn from the mistakes made so that no more mistakes are made in the future. I hope they are ACTING on those mistakes to correct everything. There is a lack of confidence in the system right now from the public and a lot of fear. __________________

10-16-2014, 08:33 PM	#7
cricket26 Senior Member How Do You Identify?: femme Preferred Pronoun?: she/her Relationship Status: must be love on the brain Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Texas Posts: 1,602 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 986 Thanked 4,265 Times in 1,315 Posts Rep Power: 21474851	so i did not sleep well last nite...i kept thinking about the possible declaration of emergency...i would not even let my daughter drop her dog off to be "fixed" at the vet because the vet is 3 miles from presby...and i was afraid the dog would be stuck at the vet for 21 days.... well there was no declaration of emergency...but we have finally come to the conclusion that dallas is not the best place to treat this devastating disease, patients are being transported to 2 of the only 4 hospitals designed to handle this deadly disease...patient number 1 is going to maryland and patient number 2 is going to georgia.... for now self monitoring of the family of patient zero, healthcare workers at presby, passengers of flight 1143, and several school closings due to children being on frontier flight 1143....and prayers for the two nurses being treated... __________________ Life is a long lesson in humility. James M. Barrie

10-16-2014, 11:08 AM	#3
Kobi Infamous Member How Do You Identify?: Biological female. Lesbian. Relationship Status: Happy Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Hanging out in the Atlantic. Posts: 9,234 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 9,840 Thanked 34,613 Times in 7,637 Posts Rep Power: 21474860	I know people are really concerned about this issue. And, it isnt an easy one. I do think we need to understand this is a process of adapting what works in the field in West Africa and what is going to fly in the American health system. Supportive care in other places is not the same as what Americans expect of supportive care in the USA. Doctors without Borders and other such groups, as stated in Anyas post, do things or dont do things that work for them. Using a stretched plastic sheet, rather than a mattress, with the bum cut out so bodily fluids can go directly in a bucket spares health workers from exposure. Limiting of blood draws works for them. Doctors without Borders also refuse to do invasive procedures i.e. they do not ventilate people having respiratory problems, they do not do hemodialysis, they will not even operate on pregnant women because of the risk of exposure to body fluids. Ebola crisis puts pressure on human rights. How do you think that will fly in the USA? Will patients, their families, the politicians, the media, health care providers, and risk management insurers be ok with people laying on plastic sheets with the bum cut out so they can poop and pee in a bucket? Will we be ok not intubating people who are struggling to breathe? Will we be ok not using dialysis when kidneys are failing? Are we ok with using IV's as long as we have viable veins and letting it go when we dont....or are we going to insist on central lines? Do we insist on doing everything possible and using all available technology even in the face of inevitable death? Yeah, we do and it has nothing to do with ebola. Do Americans like being told to voluntarily quarantine themselves? Apparently not. Do Americans like being inconvenienced in any way? Hell no. Do Americans comply when told not to do things which risk exposure to other people? Seriously, we are too self centered for that. Were mistakes made when ebola arrived in Texas? Yes. Big ones it seems. Are changes being made to adjust to the emerging reality? Yes. Big ones it seems. Are dedicated centers better equipped to deal with the overall care of people with ebola. Yes. Does this absolve local health care centers from being able to diagnose, quarantine, and provide initial care? No. This is a process. It requires patience.

10-16-2014, 05:14 PM	#5
pamela Member How Do You Identify?: femme Relationship Status: single Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Montreal, Canada Posts: 135 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 136 Thanked 337 Times in 123 Posts Rep Power: 1844018	there is no need to worry about Ebola just yet. nature will find a way to get to us

10-16-2014, 05:45 PM	#6
BrutalDaddy Member How Do You Identify?: Her Asshole. Preferred Pronoun?: Him, hym, he, whatever. Relationship Status: Bitch has no more excuses now. Join Date: May 2012 Location: Lower Alabama Posts: 519 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 206 Thanked 2,784 Times in 499 Posts Rep Power: 21474850	I do not consider myself a hysterical or paranoid person (at least not when it comes to diseases and things of that nature, now spiders? that's a whole 'nother story), but I do consider myself a worrier and very cautious. If I were living and working at home, the worry and cautious part of me wouldn't be getting ramped up little by little with each passing day. However my job has me traveling to nearly every state within our country. There are times I literally go through three to four states in a day. Usually making stops in each for bathroom and eating purposes. Hell, when ebola was first discovered in Dallas, I had JUST left the city three days prior. Only to find myself back there for, in and out, three days. I come into contact with tons of people every single day. That in itself isn't a big deal except for the fact that (and I hate to say this but it's true) a lot of these folks don't use daily, proper hygiene. I've seen it over and over. Don't wash their hands, cough without covering their mouths or sneeze really hard then wipe their hand on the counter as they're waiting in line in front of me. I've even seen them pick their noses then wipe whatever they find on the closest surface they can find. It's things like above that cause me to worry and be hyper vigilant in my own sanitizing. So when a new case pops up and then it's out that one of those cases happened to fly with a bunch of people while having symptoms, it really does worry me. All it would take is for ONE over the road driver, like myself, to get it and that will be a bad, bad deal. All I can do for now is sanitize my shoes before I enter my truck (yes, I do this and yes I get looks. Frankly I don't give a fuck) and wipe my hands down with bleach. Sure my truck smells like a janitor's closet but I'd rather be hyper vigilant/cautious/worried then end up with something that could do serious harm to myself or my family. If that makes me a paranoid and/or a hysterical guy, that's okay. I'm cool with that. But until the government gets it's shit together and starts educating people, mass panic/hysteria will set in. Education is the KEY. Without it, no one knows what the fuck to do to stay safe and healthy. Just My Opinion, Brute.