Question to butches and how they deal with differences in dating

[MrSunshine]

I think you've answered your own question in your post that I read and was not a lazy sod

If we can't agree on how things roll from the beginning I don't see much of a point in continuing.
But, I'm at the age where I'm way past just some chemistry. There has to be a whole lot more than "I like them"
I'm not going to invest my precious time on someone who wants to run the streets and take their time with me. Fuck that!

[imperfect_cupcake]

I'm already not understanding the answers...

Lol

You've met the person a couple of times, three or four hours each time, haven't slept with them, you are just talking. She's holding off sleeping with you because she's trying to be respectful of how you feel about sex till you can come to an agreement.

Let's pretend this hypothetical person is a real person who is nurturing, caring, generous and ME. And doesn't like hurting people. Not a game player. I need much, much more than chemistry, although that has to be there - that deep feeling of being understood. That's why I need to learn about people before I make commitments. I'm 45 and been around too many blocks. I like learning people first, and building trust.

So can we go from there?

Mr sunshine, I also have zero clue what "run the streets and take their time with me" means ... It looks like "if she doesn't subscribe to immediate monogamy, she's a slut" but I'm not sure if that's what you mean...

[MrSunshine]

Originally Posted by imperfect_cupcake

Mr sunshine, I also have zero clue what "run the streets and take their time with me" means ... It looks like "if she doesn't subscribe to immediate monogamy, she's a slut" but I'm not sure if that's what you mean...

Fuck! No, I don't mean that at all. This is why I usually don't bother to try to have a serious conversation in forums. It's just to hard for someone else to figure out what your trying to say.
I hope you find the answers you're looking for.

[imperfect_cupcake]

Lol!!! Well, that's ok. That's why I asked. What does that saying mean, I ve never heard it before? Clarification is always a really good thing when using our talky holes and typing.

I'm not angry. I think you'd have to do a lot worse than that to offend me....

Pardon if my bluntness made it sound as if I was.

[MasterfulButch]

To provide context for my answer, yes, I’m the sort of butch who chooses monogamy for myself as soon as there’s a special femme in my life. This is not done in the mentality of imposing a rule and it isn’t something that feels like any kind of sacrifice to me. On the contrary, it comes with an awareness that someone in my social sphere has achieved a certain level in my affections and this is something to be celebrated. The monogamy choice is like a by-product of this positive realisation.

One thing that I would like to flag straight away is that, from my perspective, sex goes way beyond the physical and I think this is a differentiation that could really impact on the questions you’re asking. For me it’s probably 80% emotional and 20% physical. From what I’ve seen this differs from person to person but I find it translates to a situation where I’m only likely to be intimate with someone with whom I experience a significant depth of emotion and have a belief in at least potential longevity. There have been a couple of instances where I have acted against this approach and frankly, they were far more to do with my own fears at the time than a positive, empowered choice. I am not saying this applies to anyone else, just me. Anyway, now I’m a bit older and I’ve learnt from these experiences, I’m pretty settled that for me, sex equates to an intimacy that I want to indulge in within the confines of a relationship. I guess to follow this thought to its conclusion; this means that being single pretty much equates to being celibate for me.

With that background established, I am now thinking about your question as to how I would deal with the scenario you describe. I think the most important thing to me was that she was open with me. I would want to know that these are her thoughts and feelings on the matter, perhaps some reassurance that it’s a general thing and not me specifically and then honesty that she is seeing other people in a similar way. I would need to know all this early because it would have an effect on how I handled myself. I don’t think it would necessarily pre-empt my interest because I think so much of her in other, more important areas. I would, however, have to hold myself back more and actually have mentally grounding conversations with myself. The other thing is I don’t think I could sleep with her whilst she was sleeping with other people. I could wait, certainly, potentially for many months of getting to know one another. I guess this is the time when you’d find out about substance habits, spiritual beliefs and the value sets you’ve mentioned but once we mutually agreed to cross that intimacy barrier then I’d need her to suspend dating others. If sex was great and it was all going swimmingly then yes, I’d be looking for mutual monogamy at that point. If sex was persistently incompatible then we’d call it a day and she could once again date as she pleased.

Reading this over, I suppose it does rather sound both like an attempt to find a middle ground and an ultimatum. I don’t like the idea of giving someone an ultimatum but then I guess we all have things that are important to us, some we can flex whilst others would feel like a loss if we did. I don’t think I would like the person I would be if I was sitting at home imagining my lover being out and intimate with someone else. It is because of who I am and the peculiarities of my personality, that I would feel that what she and I shared was somehow diminished. My insecurities would flare and I would be such a fretful arse that I wouldn’t even want to be around myself. I wouldn’t want to be that person for me or for her. I totally get it that other people would feel completely different and I whole-heartedly respect that. I guess my ultimate litmus test would be whether or not I felt empowered. I can imagine feeling empowered having my value set and being monogamous. I can also imagine feeling empowered if I were more adventurous, had a more physical approach to sex and we were both out there exploring and enjoying what life had to offer, whether or not it was together. If there isn’t an area of common ground we could find where we both felt empowered then I would say that it wasn’t the right pairing.

I hope this is of some help to you.

[imperfect_cupcake]

Ah ok, that is helpful, actually. Because I don't feel deeper intimacy with someone until I've been talking with them, being with them and having sex for a while. I don't open up that deep till I trust. So to me, if I have dinner and a chat with someone else, it's just dinner and a chat. I don't feel I've exchanged anything intimate. I don't feel I've given over anything intimate. When I *do* start feeling intimate, when I start trusting someone, then I feel ok about talking about monogamy, but to me it would feel like someone im having coffee with tells me "you can't can coffee with other people because of the way I feel about having coffee"
I find it just as baffling. So that does help me to understand that even a single conversation to you is deeply intimate. I take it that you are really deeply intimate with just a very few friends and don't have just happy casual aquainances you talk about things that don't feel intimate with?

Because I'm starting to suspect this is part of the issue. I can have really indepth, open, connective and happy conversation about subjects people feel private about and I just don't. It's very easy for me to do that. My *intimate* conversations are about really deep feelings, and intimacy to me is about when people help me, like drive me to the bank when I'm really sick. I would never, ever let anyone help me with things unless they were my partner or my parent or a very close friend.

For instance I was dating someone and I fell, smacked my head and got knocked out and got a concussion, I called my dad but he didn't pick up. I was at a little clinic and decided to walk to the train, even though they were worried about me walking alone. I did not want to call my date because I had not been seeing her long enough to ask her to help me like that. That is very intimate to me. So I'm assuming that having dinner and a conversation, which is just social lubricant to me, means something equally intimate to them.

That's why I don't go out for ice cream, or do certain activities with people - like weekend holidays or museums or cook dinner for them - unless I feel past the stage of just going out and having meals and drinks in pubs and getting to know them.

I am guessing that for some people, meals and drinks and long talks i pubs and a movie here and there are very intimate. I can understand that.

I guess then there is just finding activities that neither of us find really intimate in order to get to know each other. Bit difficult if someone has already decided they want what they want, but I can at least get a grasp of it now. Thank you masterful butch, that was actually quite helpful.

[WickedFemme]

I'm a little confused...lol... People move at different speeds... I would never push someone into a corner and insist that they choose. Things are either good or they are not. If there are too many differences I just move on.

[MrSunshine]

Originally Posted by imperfect_cupcake

Lol!!! Well, that's ok. That's why I asked. What does that saying mean, I ve never heard it before? Clarification is always a really good thing when using our talky holes and typing.

I'm not angry. I think you'd have to do a lot worse than that to offend me....

Pardon if my bluntness made it sound as if I was.

LoL. I'm just frustrated because it's hard to make a point sometimes.
Plus, that was a long ass post and a lot to sort through.
I like bluntness, you should have started there

Personally, I like things to be easier.

But, I guess if I met someone that wanted to take things slower or faster than me and we had everything that clicked then I would just roll with it and see where it went. I guess try not to get ahead of myself.

I would never call a woman a slut unless she wanted me too

[imperfect_cupcake]

I guess it depends on what one is looking for.

For me, they have to be kinky and dominant, within three hours drive, open minded, wanting a primary partner, same sense of humour, have their shit sorted, sane, not an alcoholic or smoking pot daily, more intelligent than most and really good at communication.

"Easy" is lower on my list. I've dated 10 people in the last 3 years. All of them have been problematic in ways like turning out to be a binge drinker, or winds up having a fairly crippling anxiety disorder that they didn't mention, or wants me to support them, or....

So when I meet someone local, my age range, very intelligent, attractive, funny, dominant, understands a lot of stuff without having to explain myself too much, isnt a binge drinker, has her shit sorted, and is really kind and generous - I'd like to think I can take some of her surface values into consideration without dismissing her or them, off hand. If I'm actually open for something long term to happen. Im not 35 anymore and I'm not in London.
There isn't a dirth of sane and sorted single local butches wanting to play me Mona Lisa on the Ukelele and see how it goes. In fact, I don't know of any.

So I have to be flexible *somewhere* if I want to try and do things differently.

I was just wondering if there are others other there who are flexible to a degree IF they know CONTEXT or if they respond to situations by a set of rules they adhere to.


To be to the point.

I'm suspecting that most people run on a set of rules. Or perhaps flexibility within those rules. But usually people don't deviate off a set of rules unless they have context and reason. Which is why I gave an annoyingly long post.

I'm also used to having longer posts as I'm one of those annoying fuckers that partook in the theory threads. I'm blunt, but I'm totally a context whore. Context can change the colour of a picture completely.

Apologies for my details. I'm not good at fluffy threads. I'm pretty damn cerebral.

[imperfect_cupcake]

Or maybe the answer is "I dunno, I dont think about it"

Which is also a valid response.

[Ginger]

I feel totally confused by this thread and I'm too impatient to read more carefully so that's all on me.

That said, I think I'm hearing that people commit to monogamy at different points in the continuum of getting close, and sometimes that is problematic.

I'm monogamous and usually start having sex before I know someone very well. That hasn't worked well for me, so I'm changing my strategy.

Good luck, everyone!