Question to butches and how they deal with differences in dating

[homoe]

I was raised with manners and common sense. I mean that's just rude to let a door slam in someone's face so I will extent an open door or hold one open to let someone pass through , help on with coats, help or pull out a chair for someone to get into, stuff like that. After reading these posts, I see that might offend some folks?

[imperfect_cupcake]

Originally Posted by homoe

I was raised with manners and common sense. I mean that's just rude to let a door slam in someone's face so I will extent an open door or hold one open to let someone pass through , help on with coats, help or pull out a chair for someone to get into, stuff like that. After reading these posts, I see that might offend some folks?

For me, nope wouldn't offend me. I like that. I don't like someone dressed in a suit, with flowers, calling me ma'am, taking me to a really expensive place, and being really formal type old school.

Like I personally have said, I am old fashioned. But I am also not formal. I feel really awkward putting the things I feel old fashioned about on a board because to me the are quiet, personal things between me and one other person. But carrying my bags is lovely, without making a fuss about it, opening my door, helping me with a coat, paying for a dinner or a night out... I don't really won't to say too much more. That's kind of between me and the other person and it feels really private.

I think things that feel ... They are doing it because I'm a femme, rather than because I'm me and special, feels very... Insert cardboard cut of of femme and insert formula ritual thing here... I'd prefer we get a hang of each other and have personal things for us. Not because I'm a femme and that's what you do for femmes. It feels really ... Insert tab a into slot b show romance in way you show femmes romance. I just feels overly intimate in a fake way. Perhaps more like what gemme is talking about.

Kind of like when servers in a restaurant get cloy (Overly Ingratiating or sentimental) ? I hate an excess of sentiment upfront. It makes me really uncomfortable. I guess I like humour and playfulness and understatement.

Putting it on paper, typing into a post looks hopelessly picky. But in reality it's not. Ive actually been told I'm really easy to talk to and extremely easy company - when someone isn't trying hard to impress me and listens to me instead. And me them.

[homoe]

I want to expand on the compliment factor because I'm a very curious person in general. Are femmes suspicious when a butch gives them compliment? I mean do you think a butch has an ultra motive if they do or are you more inclined to just accept the compliment at face value? The way I've always looked upon compliments are they cost nothing to give, and can make a person's whole day!

[imperfect_cupcake]

Originally Posted by homoe

I want to expand on the compliment factor because I'm a very curious person in general. Are femmes suspicious when a butch gives them compliment? I mean do you think a butch has an ultra motive if they do or are you more inclined to just accept the compliment at face value? The way I've always looked upon compliments are they cost nothing to give, and can make a person whole day!

It depends on your "love language" thing. Right? I get very uncomfortable with compliments given certain ways. But then I'm not a "words of affirmation" type.

Like for instance, I'm going to be far more endeared and swoony over someone saying "hey gimpy, get your hot arse in the car so I can drive you home, you are giving me a public boner with that slutty limp" with a big grin when I've injured my foot than. "Forsooth, my goddess, your pearlescent toes are wilting and causing the Angels to weep. May I please take your divine splendour home in my humble and unworthy wagon?"

I also prefer "mouthy tart" to "my beauteous wonder of feminine light"

But that's also because I prefer humour and endearment. I feel someone gets me and really likes me and feels comfortable with me.

[The_Lady_Snow]

Originally Posted by homoe

I want to expand on the compliment factor because I'm a very curious person in general. Are femmes suspicious when a butch gives them compliment? I mean do you think a butch has an ultra motive if they do or are you more inclined to just accept the compliment at face value? The way I've always looked upon compliments are they cost nothing to give, and can make a person's whole day!

Depends on how it's given and timing.. Sometimes timing is very important, I get complimenting someone you find attractive or whatever it is you are feeling, that's different than super imposing some weird machismo oh look I am taking time out of my life to let validate you..

That right there, makes me want to throat punch someone, very few people have good game, smoothness or je ne sais qua..

Sometimes people get pissy when you don't acknowledge a what they deem a compliment, it's really hard to explain and I am unsure if this only happens to feminine.female identified folk...

[nycfem]

I'm a 42 year old femme paired with an almost-59 year old butch (17 year age difference). We've been together 10 years, have lived together in small quarters almost that long, and are very happy together. When we first met at a mutual friend's birthday party, we had immediate lust. In two weeks BB was saying hy was in love with me. That sent me into a panic and I broke up repeatedly and dated other people. BB also ultimately wanted monogamy, and I didn't know if that would work for me. BB got sick of the drama from me and decided to stop all contact with me. This was helpful as it gave me time to think about what I wanted over the course of months. I decided that I did want a relationship with BB and announced that I was ready for a real commitment with an eye towards the long-term. BB was like (paraphrasing), "My friends think you're a crazy bitch, but what the hell, you're cute, and I'm still in love with you so let's go for it." I lived up to my promise and both of us feel that all's well that ends well.

BB said hy was totally into monogamy and private kink. I was more into poly and swing kink. BB said that it was fine if we wanted to come up with some kind of compromise, that hy didn't want to stifle my identity and that we could find some kind of arrangement that both of us were comfortable with. Ultimately I just decided to go with the monogamy because it seemed like such a drag to have to process which would have been necessary if we wanted to go with these two different ways of life. It felt like it would be like raising a kid with two different religions, a little complicated and possibly creating a distance between us. The one thing I did negotiate was that I didn't want to drop my flirtatious personality, and that was agreed upon.

We both struggled with how to romance each other. Early on BB bought me some very traditional expensive pieces of jewelry, and it made me very uncomfortable. Besides my HK engagement ring, I didn't want what reminds me of the trappings of traditional cis-het romance. I hate flowers. When you get flowers, you suddenly have work to do (water, a vase, petals dropping as they rot). I don't eat chocolate, and everyone gets me chocolate. It's an easy gift that people give all the time. At least chocolate is easy to regift! I also struggled with how to romance BB. For hys birthday I used to get expensive concert tickets and weekends away for us that I couldn't afford. It was very stressful for me. I didn't share these feelings, and I felt it was what I should do. Luckily out of the blue BB told me that hy didn't need these grand gestures and that small meaningful gestures and even just time together was what mattered. That was a relief.

[CherylNYC]

Originally Posted by homoe

I want to expand on the compliment factor because I'm a very curious person in general. Are femmes suspicious when a butch gives them compliment? I mean do you think a butch has an ultra motive if they do or are you more inclined to just accept the compliment at face value? The way I've always looked upon compliments are they cost nothing to give, and can make a person's whole day!

True confessions: I'm irrationally upset by compliments. I can usually handle the first one, but each successive compliment makes me progressively more uncomfortable. Excessive compliments would make anyone uncomfortable, but I start feeling weird from compliment #1. I think I feel as if the person complimenting me is just setting both of us for some sort of huge disappointment later. I've gotten much better at graciously accepting a few, but it hasn't been easy. Now I just warn everyone when they're about to exceed their ration for the day/week/month. It's not that I don't want to know if my date finds me attractive. I certainly want that! I just inappropriately get that strange 'uh-oh' feeling whenever I get complimented.

I'm a 52 y/o femme, by the way. I'm also non-monogamous, and unlike the vast majority of posters here, I don't see monogamy as an eventuality once I start getting serious about someone. I expect to remain some kind of non-monogamous throughout my committed relationship(s).

[Bèsame*]

Originally Posted by homoe

I want to expand on the compliment factor because I'm a very curious person in general. Are femmes suspicious when a butch gives them compliment? I mean do you think a butch has an ultra motive if they do or are you more inclined to just accept the compliment at face value? The way I've always looked upon compliments are they cost nothing to give, and can make a person's whole day!

Its all about timing and whether or not it's sincere. I can usually tell, if it's about the moment, something I'm wearing or was brought up in conversation. It's obvious if you pulled that compliment from out of no where. There is no face value, perhaps an ulterior motive would be suspected. But again, all about timing.

[imperfect_cupcake]

Originally Posted by Bèsame*

Its all about timing and whether or not it's sincere. I can usually tell, if it's about the moment, something I'm wearing or was brought up in conversation. It's obvious if you pulled that compliment from out of no where. There is no face value, perhaps an ulterior motive would be suspected. But again, all about timing.

I think that's part of it for sure. If someone is wearing a tie I can't keep my eyes off, I'll say "that's a *cracking* tie you've got on" but I don't turn to someone in the morning and say "you look lovely today, my darling" just because they are standing there and I want to be nice. That feels awkward to be on the recivieng end for me - compliments to be gracious and positive and not deeply felt. Again, I hate excess of sentiment though and would prefer they made me laugh or giggle with a joke and a wink, if they want to be positive and make me feel good.

It doesn't mean I dont enjoy good manners, it means I wasn't taught that way and I don't fit into that formula of "how to be polite"

That's why when I date some one, compatible sense of humour is one of stop three traits I need in partner. Someone who understands I prefer wit, playful sarcasm, teasing and endearment rather than formal politeness, ritual gratuity, and sentimental outpouring. I know I don't fit into other peoples molds of "what girls like" but you know we are all individuals and I don't like people getting arsey because I don't fit into a math formula about "wot u do to treat girlz so they likes me".

Butches are blokey. Blokes like tools. I'm going to give a butch a saw cause that's what butches like, right? What do you mean not all butches want a saw? This is so complicated! Its like no one has old school values anymore.

I know the above is silly, but that's what it often looks like to me. How about, a butch is an individual person with individual family history and cultural upbringing as well as a personality. So I'm going to find out what that butch wants by talking to them and not taking it as a blow to my ego if I make a mistake. If they are a dick about it, then they can bugger off.

Edit to add: if they *want* me to verbally praise them I will do my best and find reason to. However if they want it more than what feels fun or natural to me and it feels like I'm trying to hard then its not going to feel good for them either. Just like me asking someone to " be more witty" is not going to really work. I do absolutely take my partners needs into co aideration, but again, if we are dating, rather than being a partner, it's going to be quite noticeable where something like this is really clunky in a way that won't jive.

Like one person I dated for a few weeks really wanted a lot of praise and reassurance. For me it was a lot. It found it to start to get on my nerves. To someone else, it may be natural to give that level. She also gave lots and lots of unasked for praise to me about stuff and again, I found that gave me a facial tick. It grated. Badly. Every time wed hang out shed tell me I was a "generous spirit" and I tried to get her to stop but she told me I didn't know how to take a proper compliment. And I'd better get used to it (boundary crossing alert...)

But I'm sire there would be others who loved it!

Again, for me, whole point of dating.

[Cin]

Originally Posted by imperfect_cupcake

Every time wed hang out shed tell me I was a "generous spirit" and I tried to get her to stop but she told me I didn't know how to take a proper compliment.

I dated this woman once who constantly told me how kind I was. "You're so kind", "You have such a kind way about you", you're really a kind and compassionate person" and on and on and on with that "kind" thing. It got so I would cringe every time I heard a hard K come out of her mouth. I started thinking about what I could do to change her mind about how kind I was. I fantasized how the next time she said how kind I was I would punch her in the face. I figured that would do it. What I ended up doing is what I always do. I talked the issue to death. Whenever she would say how kind I was I would engage her in conversation about what she might mean by kind and how it is a bit of an abstract concept and how can a person be kind, they can act kind sometimes but I doubt they can just be kind like they can be blond. I told her ways in which I was not kind at all. I asked her to consider the possibility that she was more invested in thinking of me as kind than I ever was in being kind. And so and so on. She grew weary of me.

[imperfect_cupcake]

Have I told you lately how kind I think you are Miss Tick?

[imperfect_cupcake]

I'm curious about the no "activities" until after sex? What's that about if you don't mind sharing? Is that a more formal date?

Yeah, I guess so. Maybe I'm just ass backwards? I kind of prefer

Informal, friendly, relaxed hanging out > informal, dating that doesn't cost much > sex, hanging out informally, learning more > sex sex and more sex > romantic stuff and activities > more sex > etc etc etc maybe meeting some friends of each others > decision for exclusivity and thus a relationship to see how it works > meeting parents and taking a vacation together > hey this really works, I even cleaned out a drawer for you to put some socks in and feel free to keep some shirts here.

That's kinda how it goes in my universe.