Reclaiming Androgyny & The Text Book Definition

JazzGirl · 05-03-2010, 09:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toph

an·drog·y·nous /ænˈdrɒdʒənəs/ Show Spelled[an-droj-uh-nuhs]
–adjective
1.being both male and female; hermaphroditic.
2.having both masculine and feminine characteristics.
3.having an ambiguous sexual identity.

androgynous

1620s, from L. androgynus, from Gk. androgynos "hermaphrodite, male and female in one," from andros gen. of aner "male" (see anthropo-) + gyne "woman" (see queen). Androgyne is attested from 1550s.

it does not mean that i am butch and femme.... it does not mean that i give or take and it does not mean that i fuck and get fucked... which was what i was told i am and do...????? LOL

them: how do you identify?
iMe: androgynous
Them: that means you are butch and femme
Me: it means i am butch (synonymous with female) and can pass as male when i choose

Them: no it means you give and take and you fuck and get fucked

Me: oh wow... i suppose i should check out the glossary of terms???
not really in the mood for a battle of witt... i just let it slide after 10 tragic minutes that i will never regain

though i am fully aware that whom ever it was merrily went on its' misguided way to re-educate others... and for that i apologise but i was not in the mood for yet a nother attack... (being an asshole sure is tiring)

But the Fact Remains... i am reclaiming the word... ANDROGYNY
when you have the ability to enter a bath house (male)...to pull out your late for the show at my club, drunken, coked up horny drag queen from room #7 with out being told 'hey no women allowed' or when you go to the male hustler clubs and old men by you drinks all night thinking you are chicken meat... then, my dear you are androgynous...

whether one gives or takes is neither here nor there... whether one fucks or is fucked as well bears no consequence to the words' actual meaning... fact is... when you can 'naturally and unadulteratingly' pass as either gender... and /or are constantly reffered to in public as he, him, sir, mr.etc etc etc... chances are... taking it or not... you are androgynous...

learn it...live it...love it...

oh one more time for good measure...

an·drog·y·nous /ænˈdrɒdʒənəs/ Show Spelled[an-droj-uh-nuhs]
–adjective
1.being both male and female; hermaphroditic.
2.having both masculine and feminine characteristics.
3.having an ambiguous sexual identity.

All of the above means you are perfectly you. How wonderful that you do not feel the need to be someone you are not nor willing to accept "labels" that do not belong much less fit. I like your utterly literal thinking.

Dragonfly · 10-28-2010, 01:49 AM

Sad for me to see this thread so bare...

Dragonfly · 11-02-2010, 12:04 AM

The first time I was mistaken for a "hot guy" was a defining moment in my life. I was hanging out with my guys in someones front yard. I was the only female but I didn't dress any different from them. Someone was on the phone with a girl and her friends down the road. From their window I was not only male but the one they wanted to talk to. It wasn't the first time I wished I really was a guy. Or the last. Many other times I have had the opposite set up and wished I were more feminine. I have thought I wish I were a girl many times as well. So for me my gender presentation comes into conflict when it comes to dating. More often I am attracted to someone who sees my "type" is not "their type". Just recently I have been getting close to an androgenous person and have experienced many positive and difficult aspects of this match up. The best thing so far has been the kindredness and understanding. Has anyone else ever felt frustrated enough to sometimes wonder "why can't I be more ___" when feeling hope become rejection?

Turtle · 11-02-2010, 01:46 AM

Yeah, so much depends on who I'm talking to and what fuckin mood I'm in....<sigh>

Goo · 04-10-2011, 02:24 PM

Androgynous is the label I prefer to use, rather than butch or femme. Or I just tell people I'm just me.

PumaJ · 04-10-2011, 02:45 PM

Not one or the other, but both at once. Yes, really confuses some people.

I have come to truly value the term Two-Spirit, which I learned and came to understand thanks to two of my exes. One being Native American, the other being Native Alaskan. To me, the term seems to capture the essence of "both at once".

Goo · 04-10-2011, 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by June

I like it when people come here, or I meet them in the outside community and they say "I'm just me". I don't think identities should be forced internally or externally. I'm a Femme. I am comfortable using that term. I am partnered to a masculine woman, she does not want to ID or have labels given to her non-consensually.

My girlfriend is like that as well, she is a masculine woman, but she doesn't want to have labels placed upon her. I absolutely love it when she wears her pink jammies, because I would never in a million suspect that she would own a pair of pink jammies.

Turtle · 04-10-2011, 03:10 PM

So, when I saw this on the home page I was thinking "OK, there is a theme for today" ~ Be who you are, own it, don't let other folks tell you who you are or what you do.

EVERY time I take a gender test I score as androgynus. Yup. I am me and other folks don't get to tell me who I am....and I do get to live and learn and grow and change into the new me I am always becoming a magnificent new concrescence every moment. (even if i am an ass at times)

Chazz · 04-12-2011, 10:24 AM

This is a thought provoking thread!

As a matter of course, I don't think about identity labels all that much. I'm just me, being me, on a moment by moment. I don't give labels butch/femme/androgyny/gender queer/transgender/..... all that much thought. Except, from a political perspective.

Online and offline in LGBTQ circles, I'm pegged as a [hard, masculine looking] butch. I don't embrace the label "masculine" because, TO ME, it smacks of a false gender duality; one I've been rejecting all my life. The more "butch" becomes associated with, or defined as some version of (variation on?) "masculinity", the more I bridle under it's weight. I'm not "masculine". I'm a lesbian woman who does not abide by contemporary canon about sex, gender or sexual orientation in mainstream or LGBTQ culture.

Associating me with "femininity", would be a source of hilarity everywhere.

For me, the term androgyny does NOT denote "masculine" AND "feminine"(or some mix thereof), it denotes NEITHER.

I'm a hybrid. Some might say a 3rd gender, perhaps, one of many. I suspect people are like snow flakes, no two are the same.

I do not now, nor have I ever had, "cis-gender privilege". As I've said elsewhere, conformity isn't a privilege. I HAVE stopped letting issues of privilege, conformity, passing, gender, etc., rent space in my head. With a very few provisos, I've stopped caring what other people think.

The more comfortable I get in my own skin, the less I give gender identity thought. This doesn't make me "privileged". It's the payoff for much hard, inner work. The result of a life-long process that allows me to reject "gender" as a paradigm, all together. Arguing gender is like arguing: How many angels can dance on the head of a pin. In the end, it's unanswerable because gender is a construct. A construct is about DOING, not BEING.

I sometimes wonder what our "community" might be DOING if we all stopped identifying with constructs.

(Yes, I do understand that "coming out" and self-understanding are a part of everyone's process. I'm just trying to dribble the ball down the court a little. I'm a heretic by nature.)

AtLast · 04-12-2011, 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by June

In the past few years, I have observed a trend towards hyper-masculinizing/feminizing in our community. I am not sure why that is.

As though being Butch isn't good enough and you have to add High before Femme to get the finished product.

I am in a FB group of mostly Europeans and they look at gender and presentation in a much more relaxed way that I find refreshing. They seem happier with themselves overall, actually.

This rigid policing of gender and desire is starting to get really old for me, so I am glad people are talking about the dreaded "A" word.

People who are confident in who they are are sexy, regardless of their label. People who swagger around claiming they would never wear pink or they garden in their stiletto's, not so much (for me).

I am tired of this rigidity, too. Really, really tired of it. Yes, confident in being who one is- that is a multi-faceted turn on!

Reclaiming androgyny- or redefining it for today is a wonderful idea. We do not have to settle for definitions that no longer fit or just need a tune-up!

I love what is feminine and masculine about myself, always have.

Glad to see this thread!

Toph · 08-10-2012, 11:41 AM

June;
i have a lot of issues about the same thing!
sometimes i feel more acceptance in the 'straight' world than in the gay world.
sad but true. when are you butch enough? when are you femme enough?
i wouldn't have expected this, but sadly it seems to be surrounding us. when is enough enough?

10-28-2010, 01:49 AM	#2
Dragonfly Member How Do You Identify?: Queersexual Female Preferred Pronoun?: She Relationship Status: smiling real big Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: My Own House Illinois Posts: 330 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 871 Thanked 346 Times in 151 Posts Rep Power: 645438	sorry to see Sad for me to see this thread so bare... __________________ Stay Gold.

11-02-2010, 12:04 AM	#3
Dragonfly Member How Do You Identify?: Queersexual Female Preferred Pronoun?: She Relationship Status: smiling real big Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: My Own House Illinois Posts: 330 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 871 Thanked 346 Times in 151 Posts Rep Power: 645438	The first time I was mistaken for a "hot guy" was a defining moment in my life. I was hanging out with my guys in someones front yard. I was the only female but I didn't dress any different from them. Someone was on the phone with a girl and her friends down the road. From their window I was not only male but the one they wanted to talk to. It wasn't the first time I wished I really was a guy. Or the last. Many other times I have had the opposite set up and wished I were more feminine. I have thought I wish I were a girl many times as well. So for me my gender presentation comes into conflict when it comes to dating. More often I am attracted to someone who sees my "type" is not "their type". Just recently I have been getting close to an androgenous person and have experienced many positive and difficult aspects of this match up. The best thing so far has been the kindredness and understanding. Has anyone else ever felt frustrated enough to sometimes wonder "why can't I be more ___" when feeling hope become rejection? __________________ Stay Gold.

11-02-2010, 01:46 AM	#4
Turtle Senior Member How Do You Identify?: A mixity Preferred Pronoun?: whatever Relationship Status: chillin Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: in a really really cute little place Posts: 2,144 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 2,442 Thanked 4,529 Times in 1,220 Posts Rep Power: 21474853	I'm sorry too, to see so few.... Yeah, so much depends on who I'm talking to and what fuckin mood I'm in....<sigh>

04-10-2011, 02:24 PM	#5
Goo Member How Do You Identify?: dapper and androgynous by nature, human by choice Preferred Pronoun?: i usually answer to anything Relationship Status: in a LDR since Oct 2010 Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: somewhere on Planet Earth, in a house, in a city Posts: 116 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 68 Thanked 118 Times in 54 Posts Rep Power: 505456	Androgynous is the label I prefer to use, rather than butch or femme. Or I just tell people I'm just me. __________________ http://en.spongepedia.org/images/thu...-Goolagoon.jpg The Artist formerly Known as CottonCandy

04-10-2011, 02:45 PM	#6
PumaJ Member How Do You Identify?: High Femme Queer Feminist Preferred Pronoun?: she, her Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Portland Metro, Oregon Posts: 200 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 1,419 Thanked 500 Times in 147 Posts Rep Power: 1652642	Not one or the other, but both at once. Yes, really confuses some people. I have come to truly value the term Two-Spirit, which I learned and came to understand thanks to two of my exes. One being Native American, the other being Native Alaskan. To me, the term seems to capture the essence of "both at once". __________________ PumaJ

04-10-2011, 03:10 PM	#8
Turtle Senior Member How Do You Identify?: A mixity Preferred Pronoun?: whatever Relationship Status: chillin Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: in a really really cute little place Posts: 2,144 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 2,442 Thanked 4,529 Times in 1,220 Posts Rep Power: 21474853	wow, this thread's almost a year old?! So, when I saw this on the home page I was thinking "OK, there is a theme for today" ~ Be who you are, own it, don't let other folks tell you who you are or what you do. EVERY time I take a gender test I score as androgynus. Yup. I am me and other folks don't get to tell me who I am....and I do get to live and learn and grow and change into the new me I am always becoming a magnificent new concrescence every moment. (even if i am an ass at times)

04-12-2011, 10:24 AM	#9
Chazz Member How Do You Identify?: cisBUTCH Preferred Pronoun?: hey Relationship Status: Single - gave up the farce Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: New York Posts: 265 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 103 Thanked 756 Times in 189 Posts Rep Power: 8194252	This is a thought provoking thread! As a matter of course, I don't think about identity labels all that much. I'm just me, being me, on a moment by moment. I don't give labels butch/femme/androgyny/gender queer/transgender/..... all that much thought. Except, from a political perspective. Online and offline in LGBTQ circles, I'm pegged as a [hard, masculine looking] butch. I don't embrace the label "masculine" because, TO ME, it smacks of a false gender duality; one I've been rejecting all my life. The more "butch" becomes associated with, or defined as some version of (variation on?) "masculinity", the more I bridle under it's weight. I'm not "masculine". I'm a lesbian woman who does not abide by contemporary canon about sex, gender or sexual orientation in mainstream or LGBTQ culture. Associating me with "femininity", would be a source of hilarity everywhere. For me, the term androgyny does NOT denote "masculine" AND "feminine"(or some mix thereof), it denotes NEITHER. I'm a hybrid. Some might say a 3rd gender, perhaps, one of many. I suspect people are like snow flakes, no two are the same. I do not now, nor have I ever had, "cis-gender privilege". As I've said elsewhere, conformity isn't a privilege. I HAVE stopped letting issues of privilege, conformity, passing, gender, etc., rent space in my head. With a very few provisos, I've stopped caring what other people think. The more comfortable I get in my own skin, the less I give gender identity thought. This doesn't make me "privileged". It's the payoff for much hard, inner work. The result of a life-long process that allows me to reject "gender" as a paradigm, all together. Arguing gender is like arguing: How many angels can dance on the head of a pin. In the end, it's unanswerable because gender is a construct. A construct is about DOING, not BEING. I sometimes wonder what our "community" might be DOING if we all stopped identifying with constructs. (Yes, I do understand that "coming out" and self-understanding are a part of everyone's process. I'm just trying to dribble the ball down the court a little. I'm a heretic by nature.)

08-10-2012, 11:41 AM	#11
Toph Junior Member How Do You Identify?: Butch as fuck Relationship Status: alone until i heal Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: S W Ontario Posts: 34 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 24 Thanked 124 Times in 26 Posts Rep Power: 977871	June; i have a lot of issues about the same thing! sometimes i feel more acceptance in the 'straight' world than in the gay world. sad but true. when are you butch enough? when are you femme enough? i wouldn't have expected this, but sadly it seems to be surrounding us. when is enough enough?