Being female within Butch

[randrum]

I'm not sure if I'm the best person to respond to this. In a lot of ways, I'm still sorting out my identity. But I relate to a lot of what you said.

Everything from my clothes to personal hygiene products in primarily "men's". That being said, I still need to buy tampons. And that's a struggle every time I go. I absolutely hate having to buy them. Whenever I can, I send my sister to buy them for me. Or I go to Sam's and buy a huge box so I don't have to worry about it for a while. And when I do buy them, my anxiety spikes and I can't even meet the cashiers eye. I pray no one sees me.

In terms of multivitamins, I take women's one a day. Because, well, I don't know all the differences between the men's and women's. And biologically I am female. That doesn't bother me so much, for some reason.

Bras. Ugh. That's another push button topic for me. I hate wearing them, in any form. I either wear a sports bra or a frog bra. Thankfully I can order those online now, and don't experience the nervousness and anxiety in the store.

[Ascot]

While I posted this in the "Butch Zone", I invite input from everyone.

Yeah, the whole tampon thing...blech. I don't think I was comfortable with it until I was in college. Eventually I got to the point where the pendulum swung far to the other side, and if I was in the mood for a little dose of schadenfreude, I would intentionally seek out a young male cashier just to watch him squirm. What can I say, I come by my sadism naturally.

The thing about choosing specifically women's vitamins, it didn't discomfit me, but I did find myself having an, "Oh, hmm, yeah, I suppose I should factor that in." moment.

[TruTexan]

I'm a butch , I'm female, I'm a woman (I Love who I am) and I get what you're saying here. Good thread by the way. I think it's worth talking about.
When I was younger, like 17 and early 20's, it used to bother me to buy tampons at the store, completely would get embarrassed. If I could send my gf to get them, I did. I hated buying them. Bra's on the other hand, never bothered me wearing them, I have boobs, I"m a woman, and it's a must have.
I could shop in the under wear dept in the stores and purchase women's jockey underwear cause they don't ride up my ass crack, I hate that, and I could purchase bra's no problem. Never embarrassed me about that. But the Tampon thing? OMG hell to the NO until I got into my 30's and just accepted the fact that it wasn't going to change any time soon so I let it go and stopped being embarrassed buying them. I actually had to stop using them because I would get cramps so bad when I did, I started using pads instead, no cramping with that. I hated having cramps. I hated mood swinging too when I was on my period. I hated it hated it hated it.
As for my clothing, always male, always men's jeans, men's shirts, men's t-shirts, some boxers that fit like shorts, and boys socks cause I have small feet, and boys shoes for the same reason. I do however wear women's sneakers, I find them more comfortable then the boys sneakers.
Multivitamins, nah, I have to take Vitamin D though cause I have a deficiency with it in my older age now.

I see those wrinkle commercials daily and I don't even think twice about it til I see one. I use dove soap to bathe with. I use Aussie shampoo and it smells good. I use CK1 cologne when I do wear it on special occasions. And I use Degree for women deodorant because it works best. I like the baby powder or fresh scent.

On a daily basis, I don't sit around thinking about girl stuff. I usually have too much running amok in my brain to do that. LOL
As I get older and older, I could give a rats ass and don't put too much emphasis on women's things anymore like I did when I was younger. Who cares, I'm still butch, I'm still me. Like me or hate me, I'm still me, and I will always be just me.
I have however thought about using some type of skin protectant/nourishing on my face and hands. Just not sure what to buy. I don't like greasy feeling stuff and I want it to quickly dry. Maybe I will talk to the femmes I know and see what they recommend. I don't mind getting old, hell my hair is all silver now mostly and I don't plan on dying it. LOL I want to grow old gracefully. Thanks for the thread Ascot. I will continue to read and post most likely. I hope more of the butches post responses too.

[bright_arrow]

I just wanted to chime in that even as a femme identified woman, buying tampons is awkward, though not so much as before. It's a fact of life, we don't feel uncomfortable when we buy toilet paper do we? Okay maybe some of us do, but come on.. basic necessities :-\

I've often been the tampon buyer for partners and now I don't really care. Tampons, condoms, underwear, toilet paper... If people want to judge my purchases they can have at it!

[JDeere]

I am glad you want input from everyone!

I am trans, pre T, pre surgeries so I still go through what you have mentioned.

I am the one who buys the tampons, pads, etc for myself as well as my partner (when I have one). I have no issues with that.

As far as bras go, yeah I still wear one, then a binder. Almost all my clothes are men's as well.

I do agree with the others, this is a great topic to be discussed.

[Cailin]

from a fence line view (former butch turned.... somewhat girlie-- i'm still holding onto some of the butch stuff)

Way back when, when I was contemplating transitioning (16 years ago) buying tampons or pads was the most embarrassing thing I think I had every done. I would walk around the store with the pack hidden somehow by other items, and wait until there was a clear check out lane, with no people in it so I could run in, hand money and run out.-- I'm better now, but I still don't discuss periods or bleeding or really

Being forced to walk in the womens section for clothing for bras was so humiliating, and honestly even to this day I'm still very embarrassed about it. I have no idea why, but I am.

But, I always envied how the girlier girls always had ample selections to chose from: Hair care products, bath products etc-- eventhough I used to be pretty simple in my selections-- VO5 shampoo, irish spring soap. I was never big on cologne but when I was a polo person (I preferred polo blue)

I can say I had never cared about facial products that much then, and really not so much now

I'm happy to age-- My hair is finally natural and I cannot wait until it goes grey, I've wanted that color all my life.



and I think i've lost my point...

[Ascot]

Thanks to those of you who have jumped in.

I think my referencing the purchasing of tampons served to derail where I hope this thread will go. No doubt that activity is uncomfortable, gross or even anxiety causing for some. The reason I mentioned it, however, was simply as an example in my recent history of having to choose a product specifically because I am female. I realize that might make it seem as though I'm inclined to lose sight of that fact, but as I wrote in the original post, it's more that I just rarely think about it. I live in a part of the country, (north of Seattle) where "Ma'am" is not widely used, unlike when I lived in North Carolina where it served as an almost daily reminder. Here, too, it seems as though people accept others as just people. My experience has largely been that my reception is the same from men and women. Maybe that's the case because of how I make my way in the world. I don't know. I can't speak to that anymore than theoretically.

My talking about wearing a bra was only to show the distinction between that and every other single thing I wear. As I do that every day, while it is inherently a female article of clothing, I don't even think about it that way anymore. It's just part of my daily dressing routine. Someone mentioned wearing women's sneakers because they have small feet. I couldn't even if I wanted to, lol. I wear a men's 10.5-11. Friends tease me, saying it's a good thing I'm Butch because if I had to try to cram my feet into girly shoes I'd be in BIG trouble. By the way, my use of "girly" is in no way intended to be dismissive or demeaning. I have huge affection and admiration for things girly when they are used, worn and expressed by others for whom it is fitting.

I think it's possible I'm rambling, so, back to the point. Most of the time I don't give much energy to thinking about being female. When I am reminded about it because of choices I have to make, it almost surprises me. Is that weird? It's not a negative experience, just a little strange. While my personal definition of Butch is one of female masculinity, existing within or without proximity to Femme, it is certainly the case that when I am around Femme energy I feel even more Butch. Considering my own take on Butch, one might surmise, then, that feeling more so would also engender more feelings of femaleness, but I don't find that to be the case. I suppose I'm wondering if my experience is unique. I cannot imagine it is.

[Tuff Stuff]

Yeah,I can relate to alot of these post.I always wear mens clothes,undies,socks ect.As a kid i'd wear boys clothes "shrug".Never had a problem buying feminine nappies,it was like a diaper to me.
I never wore make-up are used womens beauty products,although I do see myself as a woman/a female.
I seem to want the latest men products that I see in magazines or on tv.
I like being in my skin,I know what I am and who I am blah blah blah.

Interesting thread.

[Celtglen]

I have to say that the years (10) I spent in technology were the worst for me being an out Butch Dyke; it got worse when Seattlegf and I got together and I put some framed pictures of us on my desk.
Jealousy is a green monster.

Before those years I ran my own businesses (photography and video production, landscaping and auto repair) so what I wore or who I was fucking never was an issue. My clothing has always been mens clothing - I was 6' by the time I was in High School.

As far as the feminine products (bras included) I have always had an issue - the bras were and still are uncomfortable especially when repairing cars - I am rather well 'endowed' and took to not wearing a bra so I could flop my girls off to my arm pits so I would shimmy under cars - otherwise it were a lost cause.

In my 30s I wore a bit of lipgloss and bought L'oreal, designer mens clothing and wore Channel #5. Once I got sick (38) and the bucks stopped coming in those fell by the wayside.

In my instance, Butch is what I am by society's definition (strait and queer), I have reclaimed the word Dyke, taken it back from Society and have made it my own and a positive description -- my strait friends cannot figure that out and they still say I shouldn't say that about myself...which makes me cringe because we have an incredible number of Dykes of Distinction in history.

Hygiene products; I buy no aluminum Tom's of Vermont, L'oreal Blue for greying hair (why look at the sparkle!) and Dial mountain fresh because I love the Mtns.

I stopped bleeding a decade ago (YAY!) but I hated every cycle for 30 years and the bulky nappies and impossible Tampons of "old"; be happy someone finally got them right--you youngens have no idea how it felt to ride a horse w/o a saddle every frickin month!

Celtglen

[Ascot]

I had a funny moment yesterday that made this thread come to mind.

My buddy Jake has two young sons, one 4 and the other a cutie pie of 2. I met them for the first time yesterday when we all got together for lunch. Near the end of our meal, the older little guy leans close to his father and in a stage whisper asks, "Is she a dad?" Jake and I shared a look and then burst out laughing. I think it was kind of a genius question, full of insight that a lot of adults lack. This wee being seemed fully aware of the fact that I am female, even as I exhibit a degree of masculinity that had him go with 'dad' instead of 'mom'. More to the point, it seemed very much as though that was a completely reasonable and acceptable thing to him.

It gives me hope that perhaps we are finally starting to get to a place of such things truly not mattering. (I'm not entirely certain that 'mattering' is a real word)

[Bèsame*]

I love this story! There is hope 😃

Originally Posted by Ascot

I had a funny moment yesterday that made this thread come to mind.

My buddy Jake has two young sons, one 4 and the other a cutie pie of 2. I met them for the first time yesterday when we all got together for lunch. Near the end of our meal, the older little guy leans close to his father and in a stage whisper asks, "Is she a dad?" Jake and I shared a look and then burst out laughing. I think it was kind of a genius question, full of insight that a lot of adults lack. This wee being seemed fully aware of the fact that I am female, even as I exhibit a degree of masculinity that had him go with 'dad' instead of 'mom'. More to the point, it seemed very much as though that was a completely reasonable and acceptable thing to him.

It gives me hope that perhaps we are finally starting to get to a place of such things truly not mattering. (I'm not entirely certain that 'mattering' is a real word)

[Ascot]

Originally Posted by Bèsame*

I love this story! There is hope 😃

Yeah, I'm definitely beginning to think there is hope. What I didn't say in the previous post on this topic is that after we stopped laughing, I told the little guy "I don't have any kids, so no, I'm not a dad." Neither Jake nor all I felt any need at all to speak to the gender thing.

I cannot remember if I've mentioned this in another post, but a couple summers ago I was at a cookout at a friend's house (a couple consisting of a male and female partner) when out of the blue their three-year-old daughter, who I've known since she was born, started calling me "uncle Lise". She found her way to that all on her own because that's what made sense to her. I've heard her use "she" in reference to me, so I know she knows I'm female, and I love her for coming up with an amalgam that feels right.

[Celtglen]

Kids seem like they better understand gender than we did in the 50s and 60s--etc.

[Kobi]

Originally Posted by Celtglen

Kids seem like they better understand gender than we did in the 50s and 60s--etc.

I dont know that kids understand it better. People have been reaping the benefits from what was started with the womens movement in the 60's and 70's for over 50 years now.

The movement was about breaking free from the stereotypes of and the societal expectations of what it meant to be a female. As a result, females/women were empowered to redefine life for themselves. It affected everything - clothing choices, career choices, reproductive choices, sexual choices, how to express femaleness, etc.

Each successive generation has added to what was started a long time ago.

[Gemme]

Originally Posted by Celtglen

Kids seem like they better understand gender than we did in the 50s and 60s--etc.

There's far more exposure to different gender and sex presentations nowadays. Kids are so open and accepting until adults tell them differently.