Policing Gender

MsTinkerbelly · 06-08-2015, 05:46 PM

I was told one time that i wasn't a femme because the butch i was dating at the time didn't pak.

It was on another site, but it was a member of the LGBTQ community; sometimes i think we are worse to each other, than straight people are to us.

Martina asked how we respond...i didn't, maybe i should have...but what do you say to ignorance? I know who i am, and I'm good with it.

MsTinkerbelly · 06-08-2015, 05:58 PM

You know i was thinking....

I am quilty of thinking in terms I'm not proud of sometimes...maybe Gender conditioning?

We have a friend who started off life as "bob" (not real names) and came out to us as "barb" a year ago. She was dressed in what is more commonly " male" dress recently...dark work shirt, dark jeans, construction type steel toe boats, no make-up and hair pulled back in a ponytail. I found myself cringing, wondering if she realized how male she was presenting...but wtf, that is her business, and no matter what she wears who am i to judge? She was as female as she wanted to be, and her dress doesn't define her...

Lots to think about Martina, thank you!

Daisy Chain · 06-09-2015, 03:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MsTinkerbelly

You know i was thinking....

I am quilty of thinking in terms I'm not proud of sometimes...maybe Gender conditioning?

We have a friend who started off life as "bob" (not real names) and came out to us as "barb" a year ago. She was dressed in what is more commonly " male" dress recently...dark work shirt, dark jeans, construction type steel toe boats, no make-up and hair pulled back in a ponytail. I found myself cringing, wondering if she realized how male she was presenting...but wtf, that is her business, and no matter what she wears who am i to judge? She was as female as she wanted to be, and her dress doesn't define her...

Lots to think about Martina, thank you!

I have to confess that I may of had that reaction as well.....heres a thought, I wonder if she was exploring her butch side ?

DC

DapperButch · 06-09-2015, 05:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daisy Chain

I have to confess that I may of had that reaction as well.....heres a thought, I wonder if she was exploring her butch side ?

DC

Exactly. Gender expression is different from gender identity. There are trans women who are butch.

JDeere · 06-08-2015, 11:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MsTinkerbelly

I was told one time that i wasn't a femme because the butch i was dating at the time didn't pak.

It was on another site, but it was a member of the LGBTQ community; sometimes i think we are worse to each other, than straight people are to us.

Martina asked how we respond...i didn't, maybe i should have...but what do you say to ignorance? I know who i am, and I'm good with it.

I have gotten told I am not MAN enough because I am Pre-everything right now.
I don't get the whole arguing within the LGTBQI community!

Why police gender when it is not even anyone else's business, except maybe the partner you are and with and yourself!

Daisy Chain · 06-09-2015, 03:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDeere

I have gotten told I am not MAN enough because I am Pre-everything right now.
I don't get the whole arguing within the LGTBQI community!

Why police gender when it is not even anyone else's business, except maybe the partner you are and with and yourself!

I`ve known more than a few BIO`s that were `post` everything and still not, nor ever would be, close to being `man` enough on many levels....

where as I`ve known female ID`d butches who had pretty much everything covered !

I dont get the arguing either.

DC

JDeere · 06-09-2015, 07:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daisy Chain

I`ve known more than a few BIO`s that were `post` everything and still not, nor ever would be, close to being `man` enough on many levels....

where as I`ve known female ID`d butches who had pretty much everything covered !

I dont get the arguing either.

DC

Yeah the arguing is BS if you ask me!

Another thing is the term MAN UP, sounds like gender policing to me! But maybe it's just me, I don't know. I have so much to learn yet!

Daisy Chain · 06-10-2015, 04:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDeere

Yeah the arguing is BS if you ask me!

Another thing is the term MAN UP, sounds like gender policing to me! But maybe it's just me, I don't know. I have so much to learn yet!

Yep. `man up`...a contradiction in terms surely !

I too have much to learn and enjoy learning ! When you get to a point when you think you have nothing else to learn you are screwed !

DC

imperfect_cupcake · 06-10-2015, 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDeere

Yeah the arguing is BS if you ask me!

Another thing is the term MAN UP, sounds like gender policing to me! But maybe it's just me, I don't know. I have so much to learn yet!

I think it depends on intent. There is an extremely camp drag King night here in vancouver called "Man Up!" And it's used as a camp-ish slang to doing a form of dragking "Im manning up when I do the MC for the band" it means presenting a caricature personality ... Like outrageous drag King personas.

It's not an insult, it's a camp play on words for humour towards a loved past time.

But it totally can be a shitty, gender policing term and is more often used that way.

Also "Don't be a pussy" to all genders, referring to female genitalia. When vaginas are some of the toughest parts of the body - it can take stuff that no other part can.

flapdoodle · 06-10-2015, 12:12 PM

if all this is "policing" this form of ongoing nagging "you're not good enough" terrible criticism, then my Mother was a Police Commissioner ......
but, who gives a shit?

If I had a dollar for every time someone "fell in love with me just the way I was" only then to spend countless days trying to change me to no avail, in essence is the same thing.

police all you want then as i walk away talk about me all you want, who cares, certainly, not I.....

Yes, it's hurtful, painful ...but who are they? friends? get rid of them, it's that simple.

Surround yourself with acceptance rather than spending time figuring out why people do what they do....

I have similar issues with being a Jew, it used to make me see red, peoples ignorance.

just "be"

flapdoodle · 06-10-2015, 12:48 PM

I have said this to many, jokingly, and they knew it, and it's been said to me, that's fine. I have been called "dude" by my own butch wife, that's fine too.

When you know who and what you are, what you feel like inside, how you choose to project your inner to your outer in every way, just do it....

One day when in a bar with J and our friends, the shots of booze were flying. J will drink 2-3 beers but isn't a shot drinker. Bartender went to pour J a shot and j said "no" Bartender replied "Oh, man up"

Oh no he didn't just say THAT to my butch wife, did he?
..as the steam starting coming from my ears and blood from my eyes, I knew I was about to combust...... I had that feeling of anger with the ignorance.

I waited a bit until calmer, we said goodbye to our friends and left, never saying a word to Bartender.

I am glad I didn't, it would have showed him he annoyed me .....and i knew he would enjoy knowing that.

JDeere · 06-12-2015, 11:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daisy Chain

Yep. `man up`...a contradiction in terms surely !

I too have much to learn and enjoy learning ! When you get to a point when you think you have nothing else to learn you are screwed !

DC

Yes we learn everyday! But major contradiction!

Quote:

Originally Posted by imperfect_cupcake

I think it depends on intent. There is an extremely camp drag King night here in vancouver called "Man Up!" And it's used as a camp-ish slang to doing a form of dragking "Im manning up when I do the MC for the band" it means presenting a caricature personality ... Like outrageous drag King personas.

It's not an insult, it's a camp play on words for humour towards a loved past time.

But it totally can be a shitty, gender policing term and is more often used that way.

Also "Don't be a pussy" to all genders, referring to female genitalia. When vaginas are some of the toughest parts of the body - it can take stuff that no other part can.

The intent was malicious in nature. So the totally shitty gender policing term comes to mind LOL

06-10-2015, 12:12 PM	#10
flapdoodle Junior Member How Do You Identify?: I'm the Mrs. Preferred Pronoun?: reflexive Relationship Status: Married in 2013 Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: sing it Frankie baby Posts: 81 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 8 Thanked 245 Times in 59 Posts Rep Power: 1073757	if if all this is "policing" this form of ongoing nagging "you're not good enough" terrible criticism, then my Mother was a Police Commissioner ...... but, who gives a shit? If I had a dollar for every time someone "fell in love with me just the way I was" only then to spend countless days trying to change me to no avail, in essence is the same thing. police all you want then as i walk away talk about me all you want, who cares, certainly, not I..... Yes, it's hurtful, painful ...but who are they? friends? get rid of them, it's that simple. Surround yourself with acceptance rather than spending time figuring out why people do what they do.... I have similar issues with being a Jew, it used to make me see red, peoples ignorance. just "be"

06-10-2015, 12:48 PM	#11
flapdoodle Junior Member How Do You Identify?: I'm the Mrs. Preferred Pronoun?: reflexive Relationship Status: Married in 2013 Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: sing it Frankie baby Posts: 81 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 8 Thanked 245 Times in 59 Posts Rep Power: 1073757	oh and "man-up" I have said this to many, jokingly, and they knew it, and it's been said to me, that's fine. I have been called "dude" by my own butch wife, that's fine too. When you know who and what you are, what you feel like inside, how you choose to project your inner to your outer in every way, just do it.... One day when in a bar with J and our friends, the shots of booze were flying. J will drink 2-3 beers but isn't a shot drinker. Bartender went to pour J a shot and j said "no" Bartender replied "Oh, man up" Oh no he didn't just say THAT to my butch wife, did he? ..as the steam starting coming from my ears and blood from my eyes, I knew I was about to combust...... I had that feeling of anger with the ignorance. I waited a bit until calmer, we said goodbye to our friends and left, never saying a word to Bartender. I am glad I didn't, it would have showed him he annoyed me .....and i knew he would enjoy knowing that.

06-08-2015, 05:46 PM	#1
MsTinkerbelly Timed Out - TOS Drama How Do You Identify?: ... Preferred Pronoun?: ... Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: ... Posts: 6,573 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 30,737 Thanked 22,908 Times in 5,019 Posts Rep Power: 0	I was told one time that i wasn't a femme because the butch i was dating at the time didn't pak. It was on another site, but it was a member of the LGBTQ community; sometimes i think we are worse to each other, than straight people are to us. Martina asked how we respond...i didn't, maybe i should have...but what do you say to ignorance? I know who i am, and I'm good with it.

06-08-2015, 05:58 PM	#2
MsTinkerbelly Timed Out - TOS Drama How Do You Identify?: ... Preferred Pronoun?: ... Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: ... Posts: 6,573 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 30,737 Thanked 22,908 Times in 5,019 Posts Rep Power: 0	You know i was thinking.... I am quilty of thinking in terms I'm not proud of sometimes...maybe Gender conditioning? We have a friend who started off life as "bob" (not real names) and came out to us as "barb" a year ago. She was dressed in what is more commonly " male" dress recently...dark work shirt, dark jeans, construction type steel toe boats, no make-up and hair pulled back in a ponytail. I found myself cringing, wondering if she realized how male she was presenting...but wtf, that is her business, and no matter what she wears who am i to judge? She was as female as she wanted to be, and her dress doesn't define her... Lots to think about Martina, thank you!