2012 US General Election Discussions: Start to Finish

[Miss Scarlett]

Got first robo-call of the season yesterday...answered office phone only to hear "Hello, this is Mitt..." that's all i heard...couldn't hang up fast enough...lol

[dreadgeek]

Originally Posted by chefhmboyrd

what if....


all the money spent on these campaigns was applied to the National Debt?

Wouldn't make a dent. Wouldn't even really show up. The national debt is at 14 trillion dollars, combined the campaigns are going to spend ~two billion all told. That's .007 (1/7000th) of the national debt. To put it in perspective, over the course of a year if you made, say, 50K last year it would amount to $7.15. Sure, on any given day 7.15 might be the difference between buying lunch out or eating something you took from home or it might be two extra gallons of gas in the car but over the course of the year, that works out to about $.60 a day. Do you notice $.60 a day? Probably not.

If we're going to actually make headway against the debt then we're going to have to do something about military spending (the 1000 pound gorilla in the budgetary room). Almost anything else we do, outside of simply eliminating Social Security and Medicare, would be like trying to scoop out the Pacific ocean with a Dixie cup.

Ironically, the investment we could make that would actually help the deficit go down eventually, is one of the things that there is very little public support for; public financing of political campaigns.

Cheers
Aj

[dreadgeek]

Originally Posted by Miss Scarlett

Got first robo-call of the season yesterday...answered office phone only to hear "Hello, this is Mitt..." that's all i heard...couldn't hang up fast enough...lol

What you didn't want to hear how if you aren't a millionaire you live only to collect your government check? I can't imagine why!

Cheers
Aj

[dreadgeek]

...chances are your week is going a *lot* better than the week Mittens is having! (Yes, I'm enjoying his meltdown, couldn't have happened to a more arrogant plutocrat.)

Cheers
Aj

[BullDog]

It appears Jimmy Carter's grandson had a helping hand in bringing the Romney tape to light. Now that is sweet!

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...elections-2012

[DMW]

please sign this petition
From CREDO
http://act.credoaction.com/campaign/...787607-gJHDBrx

Damn i wish i weren't so busy,

Credo says...

Don't let Republicans steal the election for Mitt Romney

Ohio has emerged as the latest front in the Republican scheme to derail democracy by disenfranchising millions of voters. Ohio Secretary of State Jon Husted, a Republican, in a blatant partisan move to steal the election for Mitt Romney, is trying to put an end to early weekend voting before Election Day. This change in Ohio election practices specifically impacts minority and low income voters.1

It's not just Ohio. It's also Florida and Pennsylvania. Earlier this summer, CREDO Action members signed over 87,000 petitions and made over 1,600 phone calls urging Senator Patrick Leahy, the Chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee, to hold Congressional hearings on brazen Republican efforts to steal the 2012 presidential election in other key battle ground states like Florida and Pennsylvania. With Republicans showing no sign of slowing down their tenacious efforts to steal the election, we're escalating our call for Senator Leahy to hold hearings to investigate the GOP effort to suppress the votes of millions of voters in key battleground states across the country.

Tell the Senate Judiciary Committee: Hold emergency hearings on Republicans' schemes to steal the presidential election in key battleground states.

[Miss Scarlett]

Originally Posted by dreadgeek

What you didn't want to hear how if you aren't a millionaire you live only to collect your government check? I can't imagine why!

Cheers
Aj

i know, right? What i'd love to see is those who believe that folks receiving government assistance are living the good life try to live for 6 months on that assistance...let them learn what it's like to buy food for a month on far less than the cost of one of their designer label suits, try to pay their bills and keep gas in their cars, and deal with the frustrations and roadblocks faced by Medicaid patients...would they change their tune? i hope so...

[dreadgeek]

Originally Posted by Miss Scarlett

i know, right? What i'd love to see is those who believe that folks receiving government assistance are living the good life try to live for 6 months on that assistance...let them learn what it's like to buy food for a month on far less than the cost of one of their designer label suits, try to pay their bills and keep gas in their cars, and deal with the frustrations and roadblocks faced by Medicaid patients...would they change their tune? i hope so...

In the novel I'm writing, one of the main characters is scion of a rich and aristocratic family. Her grandfathers (her mother's fathers), horrified at the mess their immediate offspring made of their lives, have a stipulation that at the age of 18 their progeny are cut off *completely*. They must spend the next ten years making their own way in the world without any assistance from the family. No money, no using family contacts, nothing other than what they can do for themselves. Only after that decade can they dip into the family funds. I would like to see rich families in the real world do something like that.

One of the best things my sister and I ever did, and the thing I credit most with preventing us from being really obnoxious, privileged, upper-middle class kids loosed upon an unsuspecting world, was enlist in the US Army. While my sister did, eventually, we were both in as ordinary grunts and so we were no longer hobnobbing with the hoi polloi but with working class folks. It was an education for both of us and we are only one generation removed from grinding poverty and my parents had wealth we were not in the celestial ranks occupied by the likes of Romney. Imagine if the Romney boys, at 18, found themselves completely cut off from their parent's money. I think that if they had to work their way through college or join the military as enlisted, they would have a very different perspective.

To hear Mittens talk as if he had scrabbled his way up the economic ladder turns my stomach because it is so obviously untrue.

Oh and arrgh, I hope ye be enjoying Talk Like a Pirate Day.

Cheers
Aj

[theoddz]

I have often thought to myself that, despite the fact that Mittens is filthy rich, he sure doesn't appear to be very bright. He has absolutely NO concept of what ordinary working people go through, trying to live ordinary lives. One would think that it would take some level of "smarts" to amass the kind of wealth Mittens has, but by Jeebuz, he sure appears to be about as stupid as a box of hammers.

I guess that's how one would discern between inherited/old money and someone who used their smarts and a goodly amount of sweat from their own brow to amass such wealth. To me, it only makes Mitt look more arrogant, more spoiled, more disgusting and..."Less intelligent" (stupid).

Theo

[Linus]

This idea of only one kind of way of proving one's identity is definitely not thought out. That said, I was curious what Canada does and found this: http://www.elections.ca/content.aspx...dex&lang=e#one

What's interesting is the 2nd option if you can't meet the first. I've never had a driver's license (I've lived most of my life in cities where public transit was useful) and used the 2nd option all my life. It even includes options for the homeless identify themselves so they can vote.

[Linus]

Oh.. and if you ever wanted to know who to throw your hard earned $$ at when it comes to entertainment, this should help.

[Toughy]

http://www.examiner.com/article/mitt...-to-kill-fetus

Mitt Romney's son, Tagg Romney, has been discovered to have engaged in a contract with a surrogate mother with the stipulations that if the child being carried was not up to the Romney's specifications, that the Romney family would have the final say if the child would be aborted or not.

I doubt seriously this is true........however the 'wow' factor is hard to pass up

I'm not familiar with this website. I have not fact checked this story. I so could not pass up the chance to post this story......because sometimes I am like that..............

[Linus]

Originally Posted by Toughy

http://www.examiner.com/article/mitt...-to-kill-fetus

Mitt Romney's son, Tagg Romney, has been discovered to have engaged in a contract with a surrogate mother with the stipulations that if the child being carried was not up to the Romney's specifications, that the Romney family would have the final say if the child would be aborted or not.

I doubt seriously this is true........however the 'wow' factor is hard to pass up

I'm not familiar with this website. I have not fact checked this story. I so could not pass up the chance to post this story......because sometimes I am like that..............

Best way to find out how true (or somewhat true) something might be (IMO) is to do a search and see how many other places carry it: https://www.google.com/news?ncl=ddTc...=English&hl=en

Apparently TMZ broke the story: http://www.tmz.com/2012/09/20/mitt-r...t-bill-handel/

[Martina]

So far it's just blogs picking it up from TMZ. The most mainstream is the Daily Kos, and they've had it since the 21st. I wonder if the Press is going to give it a pass.

I hope not.

[Toughy]

I did my quick snopes lazy ass fact check and got nothing....

thanks to those doing my research...........really..............thanks..... ....

the fact check should be interesting.............

note to Romney folks.............I want folks to speak the truth.........if you say you did or said it then fuck.......own it........you just might get a tiny bit of respect...............my vote requires respect..........

[lusciouskiwi]

This just came up on my fb feed, hope it's not too big.

[DMW]

Don't have to have facebook to register to vote with this link. But, people can register with this and share it on the facebook.

http://www.facebook.com/OurTimeOrg/app_339209582820444

http://front.moveon.org/voters-not-v...41-4rmmnHx&t=1

[Martina]

New Yorker article -- "The Mind of Mitt Romney

Financial Times -- "Born to Run"

This week's Time Magazine has a decent article called "The Mormon Identity," but it's not available online.

Interesting stuff. More reason for me to vote for his opponent. Worth reading though.

[Kobi]

Perhaps no other election has posed such a difficult personal decision for some conservatives: How do you vote if you're ideologically conservative, but you're benefiting, or stand to benefit, from the Affordable Care Act, often referred to as "Obamacare"?

"In 2008, health care was a very conceptual, a very theoretical issue," said Michael Traugott, a professor of political science and communication at the University of Michigan. "This year it's very concrete and real."

Some Republicans told CNN they would never vote Democrat, even though they might benefit from Obamacare, while others said they will switch their vote because of health issues.

"The real question is: Could defections in this group make a difference in states where the race is close, such as Virginia, Ohio or North Carolina?" Traugott said. "I think in those states it's so tight they could make a difference."

Several groups of people would fare very differently under Romney's health care plan than they do under Obamacare, such as those with preexisting conditions, which can range from anything from back pain to cancer. Between 20% and 50% of all Americans have a preexisting condition, according to the Department of Health and Human Services.

Obamacare tells insurance companies they can't say no to people with preexisting conditions, or charge them more because of their health issues. According to his website, Romney's health plan calls for "preventing discrimination" against people with preexisting conditions as long as they've maintained continuous insurance coverage in the past, but does not define what "continuous coverage" means.

Young Republicans could also fare differently under Romney's plan. According to the Department of Health and Human Services, some 3.1 million young adults now have health insurance because of Obamacare, which requires insurance companies to allow young adults to stay on their parents' policies up until the age of 26. Before Obamacare, insurance companies in many states took young people off their parents' policies at age 18 or 19.

Romney has vowed to repeal Obamacare. In the presidential debate, the former Massachusetts governor said the "private marketplace" is already taking care of young adults who want to stay on their parents' plans so the United States doesn't need a government mandate.

However, it's not clear that insurance companies will allow young adults to stay on their parents' insurance up until age 26 without a mandate. If Obamacare is reversed, insurance companies "will make their own decisions about the coverage options they provide," according to a statement from America's Health Insurance Plans.

'I feel torn'

Jon Campbell may become one of the Republican "defectors" Traugott says could make a difference in battleground states.

Campbell, 49, has voted Republican in nearly every presidential election since he cast his vote for Ronald Reagan in 1980, but this year might be different. For two years his 22-year-old stepdaughter, a self-employed dog trainer, didn't have health insurance. Then Obamacare kicked in and she was allowed onto her father's insurance.

"If something had happened to her during those two years it would have been a disaster," Campbell says.

The Olathe, Kansas, resident is leaning toward Obama, but not just because of his stepdaughter. Campbell's wife, Barbara, has diabetes and is in the final stages of breast cancer treatment. She's now on his insurance, but if he ever lost his job, his wife would be faced with trying to buy insurance on her own and would surely be rejected.

"I'm really torn," he said. "Because of Obama, I now have a wife who can get covered. But really, at heart, I'm a limited-government kind of guy."

Campbell said if the election were held today, he'd vote for Obama, but not without a lot of reservations.

"It's really an intriguing conundrum," he said.

'I'm born to be a Republican'

Like Campbell, Sara Nicastro feels conflicted about her vote. A popular diabetes blogger, Nicastro, 31, knew a woman who stopped taking her insulin regularly when she lost her insurance, and Nicastro thinks it might have contributed to her death. Nicastro said she herself would be "in a pickle" if she were ever laid off because insurance companies don't want to offer policies to diabetics.

Still, Nicastro, a lifelong Republican who lives in south Florida, will vote for Romney in November. She cares about other issues besides health -- most notably the economy -- and she's voted Republican in every election. She even remembers the excitement she felt when she shook Bob Dole's hand at a rally at her high school 16 years ago.

"The Republican party most closely matches the things I value and the beliefs I have," she said. "I'm pretty passionate about it."

Katherine Weaver, who also has diabetes, hasn't considered voting for Obama for even a minute.

"I'm born to be a Republican," she said.

Weaver, 52, knows it would be difficult if not impossible to buy insurance on her own because of her disease, but she said she's not worried because she has good insurance through her job as a public school teacher in Dallas, where she's worked for 20 years.

"It's very hard to get rid of teachers," she said. "I'm very protective of my job. I document everything I do."

Jill Thacker felt "weird" as she stood there in the 7-11 in Sanford, Florida, thinking about which cup to take.

She thought about her insurance, which covers her only if "I get hit by a bus." It's the only insurance she can afford given her preexisting condition.

She thought about how she's still paying off a $22,000 emergency room bill from last year.

She thought about her 25-year-old daughter, who's on her father's insurance only because of Obamacare.

But she also thought about how, in many fundamental ways, she just doesn't like Obama.

Then she reached for the blue cup with Obama's name on it.

"I really do feel conflicted," she said. "But for me, it's all about health care. It's my number one thing."



Read more: http://www.wcvb.com/health/Some-long...#ixzz28Zn3PCQe

[Linus]

I think the next debate should be done as follows: