11-28-2009, 09:06 PM | #41 | |
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Courage is a funny thing to me. I have done some things that have been considered courageous. (As all of us have, right?) But, everything I've done that seems courageous, including writing the above post, is just an expression of something or another that had to be said or done. There is a point when it is more difficult and more painful to hold something back than to just say the truth. Every time I have one of these moments, when I have to tell the truth, I feel bigger and stronger. I feel more of the woman that I am. My affinity for other women also raises. It hasn't been difficult for me to accept the wide range of self-expression I've encountered on these sites. The more I accept myself, the more comfortable I am with the whole range of expression of others'. Lynn (resisting the kneejerk urge to apologize for posting twice...what the fuck is that?)
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11-28-2009, 09:09 PM | #42 |
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My favorite Queer As Folk quote? Brian Kinney - No regrets, no apologies, no excuses. Fabulous outlook!
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11-29-2009, 01:20 AM | #43 | |
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I think you misunderstand my point. While it is true that I am always conscious of posting in a way that supports Butches and Transmen, and while I did have that epiphany about polite equalling caring--or not equalling it, as the case may be, lol--Adele had asked if we, as Femmes, enforce the male-centric viewpoint (or masculine-centric). That was my main point: yes, indeed we do; it has happened to me in a very negative way that has silenced me. Butches have not silenced me. Transmen have not silenced me. Femmes have silenced me. I'm sorry that I didn't make the point more effectively. I don't want to leave you thinking that I'm backpedaling, or that I haven't said the things you quoted. It does seem to me, though, that you missed my emphasis and thought I was saying it was the Butches who left me feeling this way when I was trying to say it was Femmes who have had these judgmental interactions with me. I suppose this is another area where I haven't been clear enough---after a while I start to feel like I'm beating the subject into the ground and so I do use shorthand references, my apologies--anyhow, when I posted the last one you quoted, about always being careful not to hit the hot buttons or use the trigger phrases, and being discouraged enough to just not post? That has come about because of the silencing. It didn't used to be that way for me. I've always been conscious about posting respectfully, not just about Butches and Transmen but about all of us, but I didn't used to feel so hopelessly discouraged. And now I really do feel like I'm beating the subject into the ground. *wry smile* Time for me to go offline; if I'm not back tomorrow I'll be back Monday. |
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11-29-2009, 08:20 AM | #44 | |
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And I may steal it and use it and never give you credit.
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11-29-2009, 09:01 AM | #45 |
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I've said this before in other threads, but since y'all don't thread stalk me like you should, I'll say it again.
Our identity as femmes is frequently linked to our masculine counterpart. But butches are never burdened with this. Their standing in a community is never identified by their female counterpart. For example, if we are dating someone who is female-identified, we are expected to eschew the trans community. If we are dating a transperson, we suddenly must shun female-identified butches. And, heaven forbid, if we date another femme, we must simply pack up, turn in our femme card, and leave the Mother Ship. Sometimes, it feels as though we are hauled off by our hair to join the "their" caveman clan.
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11-29-2009, 09:15 AM | #46 | |
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specifically, what i find most troubling is this femme- *sublimation* of herself to/for 'the masculine' as she devalues the female (or possibly just *femme*, case depending) while celebrating the masculine (male case depending). and not so suddenly we're all unwilling or not, participants even if our only participation was being a witness. -i shall return- |
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11-29-2009, 09:22 AM | #47 | |
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thanks, blush! |
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11-29-2009, 10:14 AM | #48 | |||
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I was seriously considering making it my signature line. Quote:
I'm glad you spoke to this aspect of "standing in a community." I've seen a bit of this in the realz. A femme attends local butch/femme meetings, begins to date another femme, or a male (of any variety) and suddenly other folks start to question her presence in the community. As if who she is bangin' has anything to do with her sense of community belonging, or deep affiliation. What? We can only check one box now? Quote:
I blush.
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11-29-2009, 10:15 AM | #49 |
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There's no place like home....
Oh man, (oops)
I have been reading the posts and loving the energy, words hadn't quite come to the tips of my fingertips. But, the thread has obviously entered my subconscious. I just remembered I dreamt last night that I was dressed as a babygirl at the Michigan Women's Music Festival. That must be the weirdest fucking convergence of femme, feminist, girl, female subtex. There were other babygirls here and there at the Fest as well. At one point someone was trying to ask me if I needed help getting out of there, as I obviously didn't belong (to her). I looked at her coldly, and said, "No." You see, I was dressed as a babygirl, but certainly wasn't feeling one inside, and certainly had no butch lookin after me. I was kind of a babygirl ethnographer on a mission. Observing how the festies reacted to me and the other babygirls. I had the cutest little gingham outfit. Anyhow, a tad about me, just to add to the diverse-titty of us. I came out as a lesbian-feminist in 1979 in one of the many super-insulated, almost separatist, lesbian-feminist communities around the country at the time. Three years later I discovered the word femme, and knew it was who I was. I found this word in the middle of a worldwide protest movement against long range nuclear missiles, when I was sleeping many nights in a lesbo-constructed protest structure on the grounds of a corporation that built the guidance systems for these missiles. I knew femme was me because I did things like: 1) painted my bedroom in the lesbo collective houseshold pink 2) decorated said room with my babydolls from my childhood 3) wore a collection of thrift store dresses, and skirts against my hairy legs amidst the jeans and political t-shirts 4) threw tea parties and garden parties for the grumpy lesbian masses. Anyhow, all of this was tolerated by the androgynous masses, probably because I did it in a butchless, asexual vacuum. The femme who I am has always been just that, who I am. I think my biggest struggle with inclusion/feeling sidelined on these sites has been the anti-lesbian sentiment which is sometimes subtle and sometimes oh-so-very Overt. And, being on these sites has been an opportunity to enrich myself and my femmeness in so many ways. To be friends with girls/women/femmes who wear makeup and high heels has been profoundly moving and affirming. You all have always scared the shit outta me!!!!
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11-29-2009, 10:41 AM | #50 | ||||||||
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So I'm late to this party. Bite me. I will be multi-quoting in purple and using emoticons. Double bite me.
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But when I don't toe the "party" line, I am in danger of being ostracized. And that hurts too. Sometimes more than doing what is expected. So do I to the expected party line or do I become a and make my own way? It's an ongoing struggle. Quote:
Why is that? Do those that post only fluff take away from who I am in any way? Do their words and colors and emoticons diminish me personally? The concept of "femme" as a whole? No. Not even one iota. What FemmeA says in purple, italic, Georgia font about being a babygirl has NOTHING to do with me. It, like the color of her font, doesn't rub off. So I need to check my own "party" line at the door. I am as guilty of doing to that femme as what has been done to me in an effort to silence or censure me. Quote:
I think being called "mean" is a way of trying to force me into someone else's box. So I am learning to stand on my own two feet (at 48...you think I would have learned this by now) and not worry about it. But it still hurts. I've learned a lot specifically from you, A. Because of you. Through you. From you. You have been an amazing teacher even when you didn't know it. Quote:
It is not "who I'm boinking" defined. It is not "what color is my lipstick" defined. It is not "how long is my dildo" defined. It is not "how polite am I in public" defined. It is not "how short my skirts are" defined. and so on. Quote:
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And your last line? Me too! Seriously. P.S. Did you come out in upstate NY? Because those were some hardcore dyke-feminists. And isn't it odd. I'm fine with calling myself a dyke, but not a lesbian. Must explore that. |
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11-29-2009, 11:04 AM | #51 | |
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I think this is a great place to talk about the ways in which that has happened. And why are we silencing one another? What does it mean that we do this? Are we, as a friend suggested (thanks hudson), playing out the evolutionary battle in a competition for resources (butch/masculine people)? Is this what that competition begins to look like when it becomes so fiercely ingrained? And is this why our masculine counterparts seem to be in their own power-struggle? Or does it truly, at baseline, have to do with misogyny? Is misogyny the result of that struggle? These questions aren't really for this thread, I suppose, so forgive my tangential mind. But I do wonder about the ways that we silence one another. And at least about the more topical reasons as to why.
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11-29-2009, 11:14 AM | #52 | |
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We throw ourselves into our lives so thoroughly. When someone else comes along who may take up space in our lives that we are not willing to yield, we want to scream :shutup:. Instead of screaming, we turn into those catty, nasty women none of us seem to like or want to be. We gather with our friends to be reminded of how fabulous WE are and how fabulouse THEY aren't. This, to me, has nothing to do with butch-femme and everything to do with SuperId, Id, and Ego. And, for what it's worth, I think this is very apropos to the dynamic and evolution of this thread. |
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11-29-2009, 11:16 AM | #53 | |
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This in itself is the crux of the reason behind my decision to write this letter to all of you. I wrote something once about how I do not see myself as "invisible." I am not an invisible femme. Whether or not I am seen is merely a determination as to the clarity in the eyesight of others. I intend, only, to stand tall enough so as not to be missed should they endeavor to look. I hope more ladypeople come in here and read this!
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11-29-2009, 11:33 AM | #54 |
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Dear Bonne,
babygirl ethnographer on a mission. You just fuckin' made my goddamned day. I you like you don't know what, e
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11-29-2009, 11:39 AM | #55 |
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I do feel like some of the reasons we push each other down is to climb on top of each other in order to reach some fantasy superior position. To what end?
Are we afraid we'll suffocate? Is it ~ forgive me ~ "every man for himself" kind of mentality? Because frankly, I don't get that. But I do believe it is fear~based. And I guess the older I get, I just don't have TIME for it. I don't have time for Pot/Kettle stuff. It's that stones/glass houses, heat/kitchen thing. And yes.....I can be catty and judgemental and I'm so not perfect....and it just kills me (not really) how we get so whiney when we are criticized about our behavior and then go and do the same damn thing! What manner of heinous fuckery is that? That being said, I don't think femmes have the corner of the market on THAT. Now. Will I get shot down for being brutally honest about this? Maybe. But I can tell You this: I have no problem loading the rifle and handing it to You. Fire away. |
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11-29-2009, 11:45 AM | #56 | |
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I so agree with this, Diva. But I think those that do not react to the criticism are simply not buying into the "corrections" we offer. They are living their lives in their own way and to their own drummers. That may be why there is more than one band. I wonder when I criticize someone...am I hoping they will correct their ways? Toe my "party" line? I have to think on that a bit more. I do know that my own response to open, honest critique (and there is a difference, to me, between critique and criticism) is to bounce it off a few others. If I get buy in from those I trust, then I am apt to listen to the critique. If I don't? Grin, well I continue on as I have and let the criticism roll on down the old back. I do hope no one "shoots" you down. I think your opinion and worldview is as valuable as the rest here.
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Last edited by Arwen; 11-29-2009 at 11:47 AM. Reason: Edited lest anyone think I was agreeing with the wrong thing in Diva's post! And correcting my typo. :) |
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11-29-2009, 12:06 PM | #57 |
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Dear E;
I love your style ! And certainly the head-on way you broach subjects that seem to be "blind spots" in the vision test. This thread is an eye-opening education regarding the Femme "smackdown" by way of Butch, Patriarchal, Societal and the worst (from my perspective) the sabotage of Femme Cannibalism. It's that "friendly fire" , being shanked by a stiletto, that has always perplexed me. We are all fighting mortal combat in an effort to be seen and not steamrolled into a homogeny of expectation. But it pains me to think that femmes feel they have been relegated to "Best Supporting Actress" in our symbiotic relationships (Femme - Butch) when the meat and potatoes of validation is : see me for who I am. I love this thread, and I have much to recognize. Perhaps this is my first lesson in understanding Butchbull behavior in the Femme china shop (not meant to infer Femmes are delicate) as well as the snares and pitfalls of Femme V Femme. Lambaste me if you will, but I'm hanging around the halls ...this thread is good stuff ! signed : Excuse me Waiter, there's a butch in my soup.... Boots |
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11-29-2009, 12:19 PM | #58 | |
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And yes, we do cannibalize each other, don't we? All of us (not just Femmes), but in our quarters and what with Relational Aggression it can be so...nasty. As it is socially acceptable, and even encouraged as a rite of passage, for masculine creatures to rough-it-out as a means to work-it-out, out-right aggressions are hardly frowned upon in the school yard. But girls are supposed to "be nice and look sweet." So what do we do with our naturally arising feelings of aggression? (We are animals after all.) We have devised elaborate inter-social methods of torturing and ostracizing one another. The cruel word spoken in clever jest. (plausible deniablity) Unkind Gossips. Out-casting. (a very fickle art) And, everyone's favorite: The Naming of The Slut. There are more. We've all shanked a lady with a fine stiletto, whether we wear them or not.
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11-29-2009, 12:20 PM | #59 | |||
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you are one of those pretty, put-together girls that I have been scared of all my life! You make my goddamned day when you say shit like this!
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http://www.sakshamimpex.com/images/logo_bonne_small.jpg Last edited by bonne-maman; 11-29-2009 at 12:33 PM. Reason: to change goddmaned to goddamned, I do like goddmaned though, it evokes an image. |
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11-29-2009, 12:32 PM | #60 | |
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And this is the crux of the matter, n'est pas? Let me ask You.....must we be friends with EVERYone? Just because there is this Femme Bond thing going on? Is it ever ok just to "divorce" yourself from a friendship because it's no longer satisfactory? I can be cordial to just about anyone....but I don't feel I need to be joined at the hip to a femme just because.....does that make me a femme betrayor....a community slayer? I can love everyone....but I don't think that means I must LIKE everyone, does it? |
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