Forgiveness

[friskyfemme]

Originally Posted by Nat

What are your thoughts on forgiveness? What does forgiveness mean to you? What does it feel like to you? Do you have methods or rituals of forgiveness? Do you feel there are times when forgiveness is not an option? Do you forgive frequently or rarely? Do you forgive yourself? Do you seek forgiveness for things you regret? If you have kids or have young people in your life, what do/would you teach them about forgiveness? Any other thoughts on forgiveness?

I have to say I have strict rules about forgiveness. If someone's actions or no action depending on the situation are intentional to harm. I don't forgive and I don't stick around. If I address a harm with someone who I perceive created the harm unintentionally and they sincerely apologize, I forgive them. This is my rules for the adults. It's a kid. I probe for their reasoning. I talk to them about it. And I give them forgiveness but I stress the conseqences of their action.

I don't feel imbalanced if I don't forgive. I do ceremony to remove the negative energy created by the harm done against me or I have done to others whether intentional or not.

[JAGG]

Forgiveness doesn't stop the pain.
Forgiveness doesn't erase a memory.
Forgiveness doesn't fade a scar.
Forgiveness doesn't heal a wound.
Forgiveness doesn't unbreak a heart.
Forgiveness doesn't repair what was destroyed.
Forgiveness doesn't answer any nagging questions.
Forgiveness doesn't ease the grieving or loss.
Forgiveness can't return what was taken.
Forgiveness simply removes anger from the equation.

[JustBeingMe]

I want to contribute to this thread but will have to come back to it another time. I have enjoyed reading it and think it's a great thread. I hope more post here. til next time batman, same time same place same channel!

[~ocean]

forgiveness ~ follows acceptance ~ when u can accept the inevitable ~ then forgive ~

[Kätzchen]

Originally Posted by JAGG

Forgiveness doesn't stop the pain.
Forgiveness doesn't erase a memory.
Forgiveness doesn't fade a scar.
Forgiveness doesn't heal a wound.
Forgiveness doesn't unbreak a heart.
Forgiveness doesn't repair what was destroyed.
Forgiveness doesn't answer any nagging questions.
Forgiveness doesn't ease the grieving or loss.
Forgiveness can't return what was taken.
Forgiveness simply removes anger from the equation.

I agree with JAGG.....

Forgiveness doesn't do anything for me, at all.

Forgiveness is an concept, which to me, requires some form of pennance, or some form of repentance and corrective measures applied. In my mind, forgiveness serves no one.

Forgiveness or to forgive someone has never served any purpose in my life.

I actually learned in therapy that it's okay to not believe in forgiveness..... that it's okay to let go and move forward with my life.

[girl_dee]

Originally Posted by Kätzchen

I agree with JAGG.....

Forgiveness doesn't do anything for me, at all.

Forgiveness is an concept, which to me, requires some form of pennance, or some form of repentance and corrective measures applied. In my mind, forgiveness serves no one.

Forgiveness or to forgive someone has never served any purpose in my life.

I actually learned in therapy that it's okay to not believe in forgiveness..... that it's okay to let go and move forward with my life.

do you think some consider *letting go* forgiving?

[Kätzchen]

Originally Posted by girl_dee

do you think some consider *letting go* forgiving?

I do not equate letting go as the same thing as forgiveness.

Letting Go is the process by which you simply resolve to let go.

Forgiveness is not about letting go. Forgiveness requires an an whole other set of requirements to be accomplished in order for one to be able to let go....or move forward.

I don't believe in forgiveness, at all.

I'm my own "hero" for being able to let go and move on.

Btw, I heart you as my femme sister in our community, dee! ❤

[Brisa]

Some people can be forgiven and some can never be forgiven....and there you have it

[girl_dee]

Originally Posted by Kätzchen

I do not equate letting go as the same thing as forgiveness.

Letting Go is the process by which you simply resolve to let go.

Forgiveness is not about letting go. Forgiveness requires an an whole other set of requirements to be accomplished in order for one to be able to let go....or move forward.

I don't believe in forgiveness, at all.

I'm my own "hero" for being able to let go and move on.

Btw, I heart you as my femme sister in our community, dee! ❤

i heart you too!!! i love your way of thinking

[CherylNYC]

Originally Posted by Kätzchen

I do not equate letting go as the same thing as forgiveness.

Letting Go is the process by which you simply resolve to let go.

Forgiveness is not about letting go. Forgiveness requires an an whole other set of requirements to be accomplished in order for one to be able to let go....or move forward.

I don't believe in forgiveness, at all.

I'm my own "hero" for being able to let go and move on.

Btw, I heart you as my femme sister in our community, dee! ❤

I could never quite understand what 'forgiveness' really means. The closest definition I ever found for myself was that forgiving someone means you're saying to them that whatever happened is OK now. There are some things that will simply NEVER be ok, so I couldn't figure out why I was supposed to forgive them. So I didn't, and I don't. But I do strive to let go. I agree with Katchen. It's not the same thing at all.

[*Anya*]

Originally Posted by Kätzchen

>>>snip<<<

Forgiveness is an concept, which to me, requires some form of pennance, or some form of repentance and corrective measures applied. In my mind, forgiveness serves no one.

Forgiveness or to forgive someone has never served any purpose in my life.

I actually learned in therapy that it's okay to not believe in forgiveness..... that it's okay to let go and move forward with my life.

I honestly never thought about it exactly like this.

The concept of letting go, for me, is everything and it really is not the same as forgiveness.

Holding onto anger, resentment or bitterness hurts me more than another person. Letting go of all of that really feels liberating.

My clients talk about doing their 12-steps and getting stuck on making amends. They state that they are afraid the person they want to make amends to will not forgive them. I try to reinforce that they are making amends for themself; not to expect the other person to "forgive" them.

I never thought about it in terms of letting go but I think it is the same thing.

I can't really move on until I let go. That is really difficult for me.

I need to work on this.

[Soft*Silver]

Julie...thank you for the information about your religion. Whenever I have learned about Jewish faith, I find a distinct pull to it, totally different than I feel toward Christianity. I feel so at home in Judaism. Comfortable. As I read about shedding of skin and renewal and even more so, about forgiveness and how not everything should be forgiven, I felt the pull even more. I do not believe everything needs forgiven. I think we need to learn from everything and can move on from it but no,not everything needs or deserves a clean wash. And yet, is that what forgiveness is? I think thats what I have been taught and yet i dont buy into it. Perhaps thats why I like the concept that not everything deserves or needs forgiveness.

I have done some wrongs in life that do not deserve forgiveness. Nothing horrid like murder....shaking my head....but there are many ways to kill parts of people. I am a recovering alcoholic and I have done things that while I ask for ammends for, do not ever expect forgiveness of. Most of these were perpetrated on my daughter. SHe has been in al anon and while we love each other powerfully, we are so both affected by my disease. She says she forgives me but you know what? I hope she doesnt. I hope she keeps it close to her breast, along with her love for me, and combines them, so she can walk beside me. I think thats the only way she can trust me, is to never forget and never forgive. It doesnt mean she should not love me. It does mean nothing can undo what I did. But we do not live in the past so the past should only be there as a reminder.

When I relapsed Nov of 2007, she was shattered. She was nowhere near me geographically but it was as tho I had done this as surely as if I was standing right next to her. I drew a sword and with each drink, shoved it inside her. Does that need forgiven?

Forgiven is not the word that catches everything we need to do spiritually in the world of ammends. The only forgiveness I seek, is with myself, for the pain I brought forth on all those part of me. I learned from it and take great measures to not relapse again. Certainly for me but oh yes, for those my every move in life affects.

I love my AA but I feel a responsibility beyond myself. They say we should only get sober for ourselves. True on some levels but on many others, not completely true. My sobriety is my true act of repentance, and ammends making, to my daughter.

And no, I am not beating myself up over relapsing. I am actually very very glad I relapsed. It broke what needed to be finally completely broken so I could snap out of denial and heal the right way. But it came at a cost. And it wasnt just I who paid it. For this, I am accountable for. Thats all...

well...this is my personal history with forgiveness