Stone Butches

[*Anya*]

In the beginning, I knew I was lesbian but had no knowledge of all the sub-cultures within the culture.

My first GF's were femme because they were my friends. My best friend & I had a sexual relationship for a few years. I always felt like something was missing-something was: profound, visceral, sexual attraction.

Then I met my ex. She rocked my world. Besides the fact that I was able to respond to her as no others before her, I learned a great deal about lesbian culture of the time.

She never felt like a girl & frankly never really looked like one either. Her mother tried desperately to make her into one. Pictures of her as a little girl really look like a little boy in a dress. When she came out, in the bar culture, her friends strongly identified as stone.

They even had an old-school word for butches that allowed sexual touch: Kiki. In her world, you were either butch or femme, you did not "swing both ways", so to speak. She did not want to be Kiki!

I knew nothing of this sub-culture when we first got together and I did not understand this but accepted it.<<disallowed word>>

Having had relationships with selfish bio men before I came out, men who always seemed to suffer from premature ejaculation; honestly I thought I had died & gone to heaven! Someone happy to pleasure me for hours on end (hey we were young!) what's to think about?!! I fell in love with her & when you love someone, you accept them for who & what they are, right?

No actual thought process about her being stone for a long time. I
missed reciprocating but accepted it- I was too busy enjoying myself & she was too.<<disallowed word>>

Stone or not, lesbian sex is lesbian sex! I am pretty much open to whatever comes my way, I try not to use labels. Regardless if was with a stone butch, butch or TG; I would still be a queer femme, the sexual identity of my partner does not change who I am.

No thought process involved at all with that.

PS: what is the "disallowed word" thing all about? I don't understand. The word fuck is not disallowed but innocuous words are?

[CherylNYC]

Originally Posted by morningstar55

morning Stoners...



ok i should know the answer to this ?
but ... does dating a stone butch .... make me a stone femme??
soo many variations

No, it doesn't. Having your own stone boundaries around where and how you can touch your partner makes you a stone femme. For most women who ID as stonefemme, penetrating a partner is a big boundary.

You aren't defined by who you partner with. You are who you are.

[Gemme]

Originally Posted by CherylNYC

I don't see why being a stonefemme, or a stone butch for that matter, means that we aren't lesbians. My late gf IDed as such, and I certainly do, too. She was an old school butch who IDed as a lesbian, stone butch, butch dyke, and/or leatherdyke top. All of those IDs were female to her, and she didn't feel compelled to call herself anything other than a woman. A very, VERY butch woman. She had a vagina and a clit, just like any other woman. Being stone meant that she was the pitcher. My stonefemme nature means I'm the catcher. No more, no less.

I'm a lesbian and my sex is stone sex. I assume that no one on this site is going to be foolish enough to tell me that I'm not a lesbian because I'm a stonefemme.

Of course not!

I don't id as a lesbian. It just doesn't fit for me. I wouldn't wear ill-fitting clothes (well, usually) and I won't wear an ill-fitting identity on my sleeve either. I am, however, thoroughly Stone Femme.

Identities aren't exclusive, thank goodness. I like the blends and meshed identities that we have here on the site. It helps to make like interesting.

[Electrocell]

<--------------- Sits back in the corner and quietly listens .

[ScandalAndy]

Originally Posted by Electrocell

<--------------- Sits back in the corner and quietly listens .

no no, you are spota help!!

[cuddlyfemme]

Originally Posted by Electrocell

<--------------- Sits back in the corner and quietly listens .

Hi Cell! Its always nice to see you

[Electrocell]

Originally Posted by ScandalAndy

no no, you are spota help!!

When you have femmes debating it's just better to keep your mouth shut lol.

Originally Posted by cuddlyfemme

Hi Cell! Its always nice to see you

Always nice to see you too Cuddly.

[ScandalAndy]

Originally Posted by Electrocell

When you have femmes debating it's just better to keep your mouth shut lol.



Always nice to see you too Cuddly.

Ahhh, I see your point, but this is the butch zone, so I, for one, would like some butch input please.

[Electrocell]

I recently was with this femme who was just use to what I call lesbian sex. 69 etc. She was also use to being the aggressor in the relationship(sometimes that's good ) Well I intoduced her to my butch cock and she enjoyed the hell out of it. Don't get me wrong I use my hands and my mouth still ( have to have foreplay ya know.) I also know if you don't use your cock right it can be a turn off for some femmes. So far I haven't had any complaints lol. Hope I'm allowed to say this lol.

[Electrocell]

Originally Posted by southernboi63

I have to agreee with you DomnNC. I define myself as Stone but as I have read I find myself as being confussed. For myself, when I am with that special woman, When we are tgether in the bedroom, I get off by getting her off by me penertrating her. I like being touched but not penertation at all, I feel as if I were born in the wrong body, I wear mens clothing, boxers, eveything....I pack all the time so what would you classify me if not a stoner... the only thing I see if anything would be the touching... I need help//\\

Sounds to me like you are a Transgendered stonebutch. I too feel like I was born in the wrong body. Wouldn't mind having my breast removed but until they perfect the other part of the ftm operation wouldn't consider that part of it. I want to still want to beable to have an orgasm. There are all different types of stonebutches and butches.

[MainelyButch]

Wow, I've been "away" from this site for quite a bit of time and thought I would pop in and see what's going on these days. This conversation in the Butch Zone is really a great one. There can be so many variations of "Butch" and "Femme", I think we each embody different ways, just as we each have different personalities. Diversity is a wonderful thing.

I am back in southern Maine and just bought a place here. It feels great to be back "home" again. And I don't plan on straying too far, except on vacation, from now on! Figured out pretty fast that I was not cut out to live in the southern states!

Looking forward to catching up with people here, and making new friends as well. Hope you are all doing great! And having a super summmer!

~MainelyButch

[QueenofSmirks]

Originally Posted by CherylNYC

No, it doesn't. Having your own stone boundaries around where and how you can touch your partner makes you a stone femme. For most women who ID as stonefemme, penetrating a partner is a big boundary.

You aren't defined by who you partner with. You are who you are.

'm in agreement with a lot of what you said, but some stonefemmes actually DO identify as such because their partner ID's as stonebutch. That isn't to say that it's right or necessary for everyone, but I have read posts from other femmes that do claim their stonefemme identity is in direct relation to the fact that they date stonebutches.

[QueenofSmirks]

Originally Posted by Gemme

Of course not!

I don't id as a lesbian. It just doesn't fit for me. I wouldn't wear ill-fitting clothes (well, usually) and I won't wear an ill-fitting identity on my sleeve either. I am, however, thoroughly Stone Femme.

Identities aren't exclusive, thank goodness. I like the blends and meshed identities that we have here on the site. It helps to make like interesting.

I, too, do not identify as a "lesbian". The term doesn't feel right to me, and I long ago discarded it as part of any identifier for myself. I wholeheartedly embrace the word queer, but even more to my liking and fit, I identify as a queer femme.

[daisyfm]

Originally Posted by Converse

Ok Lets try this….

For the people who have partnered with a Stone Butch, I’m curious what was the “thought process” that you went through the very first time- did you discuss it before/afterwards with the Butch or others, was it a surprise, something you had to adjust to – or did you know that you were looking for a Stone, and what that would mean?

to me there is no thought process, when i have partnered with a Stone Butch i have always known what to expect, which is awesome because i don't like surprises. when there is too much to figure out it means that something is not for you, otherwise things just flow. i knew exactly what i was looking for. there is nothing as wonderful as knowing what you want and finding it. i think...

[ScandalAndy]

Originally Posted by daisyfm

to me there is no thought process, when i have partnered with a Stone Butch i have always known what to expect, which is awesome because i don't like surprises. when there is too much to figure out it means that something is not for you, otherwise things just flow. i knew exactly what i was looking for. there is nothing as wonderful as knowing what you want and finding it. i think...

But how did you know what to expect if not all stone identities encompass the same things? What kind of questions do you ask? Do you ask any questions at all? How could you tell you had addressed their desires, how could they tell they had addressed yours? This may sound dumb, but I'm not sure how to accomplish any of that without at least some dialogue.

[Converse]

Some really interesting posts, thank you for the insight. And it leads me to my next question…

Elsewhere a very young person posted that they had just discovered the term Stone, and with that discovery a lot of things started to make sense for her/hym. The person posted that until now their involvement has been only with those who identify as lesbian, and that when she/hy tries to raise the topic of how she/hy relates sexually to others they turn away. Feeling hurt and rejected, the person asked do I keep trying to explain, or do I just keep looking?

It made me think about those who have no exposure to Butch-Femme dynamics, and how because of a fear of rejection by their peer group, suppress and yearn in silence.... So, can someone id as an androgynous presenting "stone" lesbian, and find interest from a stonefemme?

Of course I have my own opinion, but am curious to hear what others might have to say.

[ScandalAndy]

Ooooh, i LIKE this thought!

First of all, I want to bring up something that stood out about your post. This individual is very young, and their partners turned away from them when dialogue was opened about their sexual desires.

This sounds to me like perhaps the youth and inexperience of this individual's partners caused them to behave selfishly or perhaps a bit immaturely in this case. It can be a folly of youth to subscribe to the idea that lesbianism means one particular way of being intimate (i fell into that trap once, myself). There may be a lack of information available to this person's partners, or this person's partners may not have the compassion or patience to explore different intimacies (another folly of youth I was guilty of once upon a time). Conversely, if a stone relationship isn't what worked best for them, it's probably in everyone's best interest to discover that as soon as possible.


That being said, I feel I can only speak from experience when I say I, as a femme, would have no problem dating an androgynous individual who self identifies as stone. Clearly a dialogue is in order prior to physical intimacy, but a person's sexual preferences and proclivities have never been enough to scare me away. I'll try anything twice.

Originally Posted by Converse

Some really interesting posts, thank you for the insight. And it leads me to my next question…

Elsewhere a very young person posted that they had just discovered the term Stone, and with that discovery a lot of things started to make sense for her/hym. The person posted that until now their involvement has been only with those who identify as lesbian, and that when she/hy tries to raise the topic of how she/hy relates sexually to others they turn away. Feeling hurt and rejected, the person asked do I keep trying to explain, or do I just keep looking?

It made me think about those who have no exposure to Butch-Femme dynamics, and how because of a fear of rejection by their peer group, suppress and yearn in silence.... So, can someone id as an androgynous presenting "stone" lesbian, and find interest from a stonefemme?

Of course I have my own opinion, but am curious to hear what others might have to say.

[CherylNYC]

Originally Posted by Converse

Some really interesting posts, thank you for the insight. And it leads me to my next question…

...It made me think about those who have no exposure to Butch-Femme dynamics, and how because of a fear of rejection by their peer group, suppress and yearn in silence.... So, can someone id as an androgynous presenting "stone" lesbian, and find interest from a stonefemme?
.

No problems here. Presenting as androgynous wouldn't exclude a person from consideration for me. Not being a leather top would be a deal breaker, though.

[Converse]

Originally Posted by ScandalAndy

Ooooh, i LIKE this thought!

This sounds to me like perhaps the youth and inexperience of this individual's partners caused them to behave selfishly or perhaps a bit immaturely in this case.

Yes I think you may be correct- youth is probably one of the contributing factors to the dilemma.

Originally Posted by ScandalAndy

That being said, I feel I can only speak from experience when I say I, as a femme, would have no problem dating an androgynous individual who self identifies as stone.

Originally Posted by CherylNYC

No problems here. Presenting as androgynous wouldn't exclude a person from consideration for me. Not being a leather top would be a deal breaker, though.

This is interesting. So should I read this to mean that it is “Stone” rather than “Butch” that is the more relevant?

I wonder if a similar perception exists for Stone Butches i.e. that the “femme” is secondary to the “stone”, that the two words are separable- allowing Stone to be attached to any ID, gender etc while still retaining its attraction.

[ScandalAndy]

I wouldn't necessarily say that either is more relevant than the other. There are some femmes who would prefer butch to androgyne regardless of stone identity, as well as some femmes whose preference require that their partner identify as stone.

Since this is a question that you are posing to femmes, I would have to assume that majority of those responding are attracted to butches or masculine-identified partners. Androgynes would, therefore, be viewed through the lens of masculinity, I believe. For instance, I personally would be okay with dating an androgynous partner because I do not see them as being firmly identified with femininity or the femme identity.

I think it is possible to separate all labels and use them as we see fit.

Originally Posted by Converse

This is interesting. So should I read this to mean that it is “Stone” rather than “Butch” that is the more relevant?

I wonder if a similar perception exists for Stone Butches i.e. that the “femme” is secondary to the “stone”, that the two words are separable- allowing Stone to be attached to any ID, gender etc while still retaining its attraction.