Loving a Transman Isn't Easy

[Sparx1_1]

I think what's being overlooked here is the fact that when a person transitions - they are making a choice and doing it willingly. It's not a simple or easy process and they need and deserve the support they get. The problem is that there really isn't much thought given to the wives and girlfriends who are forced into transitions of their own as part of his transition.

Their partners don't necessarily have a choice. They didn't ask for it and they are very often labelled transphobic if they do decide they can't or won't deal with it. They are expected to be the supporters but are rarely supported themselves. They are not allowed to grieve for the things they will lose - their female partner, their queer identity, their visibility. For them it ends up being a very big trap that very few can navigate successfully. Like it or not, some resentment, frustration, and anger will usually be part of the process and the world of kindness and PC-speak might just take a (hopefully short) vacation.

Almost all of us lost friends and family simply by coming out of the closet. We lost jobs, homes and opportunities that we can never get back. Femmes in particular already struggle with invisibility both inside and outside the queer community. After such a long, hard uphill battle just to be who you are, why would anyone expect them to be PC about being faced with the transition of someone they love?

Transitioning puts the partner back in the closet. After all I've been through just to come out of my closet, I sure as hell would not be the least bit pleasant or nice about being tucked back into one. But - when you are emotionally invested in someone, you don't just walk away. You stay, you struggle and you try to work it out; that is what a committed relationship is all about.

[julieisafemme]

I am reponsible for finding my own support or creating it where it does not exist. A lot of the challenge for partners in my experience does stem from transphobia. I don't like the idea that I am somehow silenced or not supported. I don't feel that way. Is it readily available? No. Are these conversations happening? Yes! I am concerned about the tone of this thread being about partners not being heard. There are a lot of factors that go in to that. No relationship is easy. I am not easy to love by any means.

There are specific issues that partners of transpeople have to deal with. The writer of that article spoke up about these. I understand her words might have upset some people. I needed to hear what she said and I hope other partners can feel empowered to talk about it too. I am not a victim of my partners transition or gender identity.

[SecretAgentMa'am]

Originally Posted by julieisafemme

I am reponsible for finding my own support or creating it where it does not exist. A lot of the challenge for partners in my experience does stem from transphobia. I don't like the idea that I am somehow silenced or not supported. I don't feel that way. Is it readily available? No. Are these conversations happening? Yes! I am concerned about the tone of this thread being about partners not being heard. There are a lot of factors that go in to that. No relationship is easy. I am not easy to love by any means.

There are specific issues that partners of transpeople have to deal with. The writer of that article spoke up about these. I understand her words might have upset some people. I needed to hear what she said and I hope other partners can feel empowered to talk about it too. I am not a victim of my partners transition or gender identity.

That's great that your experience has been good. It's great that you don't feel silenced or supported. That's you. A lot of people don't have good experiences and do feel silenced and not supported. Those people aren't wrong or to blame for having a different experience from yours, and they're transphobic because their experience is different.

[julieisafemme]

Originally Posted by SecretAgentMa'am

That's great that your experience has been good. It's great that you don't feel silenced or supported. That's you. A lot of people don't have good experiences and do feel silenced and not supported. Those people aren't wrong or to blame for having a different experience from yours, and they're transphobic because their experience is different.

I don't think I said that my experience was good. I am not saying that anyone is wrong or to blame for having a different experience. I don't feel
silenced because I speak out. I feel supported because I have worked hard to find the support I need. You're right, that's me. I don't think I need to apologize for that. I would not want someone who is just starting with a transgender partner to feel like it is all silence, no support or pain. There was not a lot of support for same sex partners in the past. We have to build those networks and support one another.

So much of the alienation and lack of support I have experienced was from the queer community. That was a bitter pill for me to swallow. I was newly out when I met my partner and all the issues we have been discussing like feeling closeted really took a toll on me in the beginning. I felt like I was not accepted as a lesbian. That hurt so much. It was not what I expected coming out but I met my partner and he is a Transman.

Bit by bit it has gotten better as I have tried to make myself more vulnerable and ask for what I need in my community. Sometimes I still feel alone and like a lesser being in the queer world. I try to be present and sit with that discomfort. Just as you said that people don't want to be judged or blamed, I don't want to either. I'm sorry if you or others interpreted me that way. I am trying to share my experiences.

[SelfMadeMan]

I've been doing a lot of thinking about what the lesbian partners of transmen must go through... and reading everyone's input here. I want to preface this post by saying that I speak from some of our experiences - not suggesting this is true for everyone in every place. Certainly some places have more trans support than others. But as I was sitting here pondering this issue... it dawned on me that in many relationships with transmen, when in the company of other transmen/couples, their lesbian partners aren't really encouraged to speak out about what might be uncomfortable for them during their partner's transition. I have seen, and we have experienced, the ostracizing of a lesbian by her lesbian community for partnering with a transman. And then there are the hetero friends you make - since you're viewed as just another hetero couple by society - the friends you can't always even be open and honest with about your trans partner. So oftentimes, a lesbian who chooses to partner with, or stay with a transman has no real outlet for the very real emotions and fears she is dealing with.

So, I'm happy to see these dialogues taking place, I know my wife has dealt with these issues and felt she had to become invisible again to fully support me - and that was my fault for worrying so much about being stealth and wanting to blend in. Wanting every rainbow sticker peeled off, and put away. Our relationship has grown and been so much more comfortable for both of us with my becoming an out transman. I'm not saying everyone has to be out - there are ways to support your partner as a 'stealth' transman and let her be honest - let her be vulnerable. By remembering that she is transitioning too.

I will say though, that being out and visible sure made life easier for not only me - but for the hot queer girl I married

[Quintease]

Originally Posted by Sparx1_1

I think what's being overlooked here is the fact that when a person transitions - they are making a choice and doing it willingly. It's not a simple or easy process and they need and deserve the support they get. The problem is that there really isn't much thought given to the wives and girlfriends who are forced into transitions of their own as part of his transition.

Their partners don't necessarily have a choice. They didn't ask for it and they are very often labelled transphobic if they do decide they can't or won't deal with it. They are expected to be the supporters but are rarely supported themselves. They are not allowed to grieve for the things they will lose - their female partner, their queer identity, their visibility. For them it ends up being a very big trap that very few can navigate successfully. Like it or not, some resentment, frustration, and anger will usually be part of the process and the world of kindness and PC-speak might just take a (hopefully short) vacation.

Transitioning puts the partner back in the closet. After all I've been through just to come out of my closet, I sure as hell would not be the least bit pleasant or nice about being tucked back into one. But - when you are emotionally invested in someone, you don't just walk away. You stay, you struggle and you try to work it out; that is what a committed relationship is all about.

That's what I read into it. This woman talked at length about being closeted and finally feeling free, yet suddenly she's back where she started and it hurt.

That resonated with me as I had often wondered how things would have turned out had I stayed with my first trans partner (many years ago). He was still in that transient place, between woman and man, and I was an out and proud lesbian, still fighting my corner to be recognised as a feminine lesbian. I really struggled with the realisation ..and guilt.. that a life with him, meant a life of invisibility. Luckily (possibly more for him!) other things intervened and we went our separate ways.

My current partner had long been part of my life before we got together. Perhaps that emotional connection softened the blow, or perhaps my identity doesn't really mean that much to me any more. Unlike the author of that article I have been out for many, many years and many girlfriends have come and gone. I read that article and feel proud for her that ultimately, she loved her partner more than she grieved her own losses.

[Soon]

Originally Posted by Quintease

That's what I read into it. This woman talked at length about being closeted and finally feeling free, yet suddenly she's back where she started and it hurt.

That resonated with me as I had often wondered how things would have turned out had I stayed with my first trans partner (many years ago). He was still in that transient place, between woman and man, and I was an out and proud lesbian, still fighting my corner to be recognised as a feminine lesbian. I really struggled with the realisation ..and guilt.. that a life with him, meant a life of invisibility. Luckily (possibly more for him!) other things intervened and we went our separate ways.

My current partner had long been part of my life before we got together. Perhaps that emotional connection softened the blow, or perhaps my identity doesn't really mean that much to me any more. Unlike the author of that article I have been out for many, many years and many girlfriends have come and gone. I read that article and feel proud for her that ultimately, she loved her partner more than she grieved her own losses.

It seems that you are suggesting in the words I bolded that those who have issues with their partner's transition are selfish in that their needs are taking precedence and that that they just don't love their partner enough if they can't forge a future with them b/c of of it.


If I am reading this correctly, I think that is an unfair implication to those partners who struggle in so many ways--one of the major struggles and mind fucks is that YOU DO still love them but must balance that love with one's own needs and not negate one's own struggles and desires.

[Quintease]

Originally Posted by HowSoonIsNow

It seems that you are suggesting in the words I bolded that those who have issues with their partner's transition are selfish in that their needs are taking precedence and that that they just don't love their partner enough if they can't forge a future with them b/c of of it.

Actually that's not what I'm saying at all, but then again, don't most breakups involve selfishness of some sort? I have no judgements on couples that don't last as I'm far more interested in couples that do!

[Nat]

I struggled to get myself out of the closet, and I made a decision at some point that nobody will be shoving me back into one. My life is as important as the life of whomever I'm with. When I came out, I found myself attracted to people with an entire array of identities - and matching an identity with the attraction/chemistry was like playing pin-the-tail-on-the-sexy-ass-masculine-person-in-a-seemingly-female-body. It took me a while to learn that however a person presents on the outside, there's no telling how that person identifies or feels on the inside unless it's discussed honestly.

Of the people I've dated since coming out, some have been butch, some have been trans, some have been bois, some have not identified, some have been femmish (I'm using the term "date" very loosely here...).

I've known many who have spoken of transitioning and not gone through with it (at least not yet). I've known others who never speak of it, then just start it.

I think honesty is a two-way street, and you can only admit to somebody else what you are willing to admit to yourself. Since I spent much time figuring out my gender and orientation and what I want in life and relationship and communing with my community, I try to be out and open early-on that I identify as a lesbian and do not want to ever ever go back in the closet. I don't want to live a closeted life or have to pretend to be straight for the sake of my partner. I wasn't happy in my "heterosexual" marriage. I wouldn't leave my girlfriend if she decided to transition - and I'd still love her and think she was hot as hell. But I wouldn't pretend to be straight in order to fit myself into the world that her transition might create. I would miss her as she is now, but I would adore her regardless. I don't have the inner resources or desire to create and protect a "stealth" life - and if asked to do so I don't think I could if I tried - and I don't think I would try. I think it can be really difficult when one person being true to himself becomes at-odds with a femme's being true to herself. Love has the capacity to make many things possible and to overcome many difficulties, but I'm pretty committed to being true to myself no matter what goes on with my partner. I definitely think femmes are expected to cheerlead unforeseen transitions, to never complain or express what they have every right to. If I transitioned, I wouldn't expect any stand-by-your-man business from my partner - I would appreciate her being there and loving me and staying with me, but not if she felt like it compromised who she is or if she couldn't feel herself attracted to me as a man.

** edited to add: there was a time when I found myself so attracted to so many transguys I met that I thought I wasn't a lesbian. It was only after breaking down my own gender experience (feeling bigendered) and examining carefully the reality of my attractions that I was able to identify as a lesbian. I have been very enamoured of transmen from time to time, and the guy part of me so yearns to experience what the girl part of me won't let him - and so I tend to vicariously enjoy and identify with transguys. I sort of had to take my glasses off and *play the tape to the end* to realize that one day I'd end up back in the same place I left - closeted, with secrets, isolated from my community, isolated from my own truth. My partner has expressed to me that in the past she assumed she would one day transition - but that she changed her mind at some point. Sometimes I ask her about that, but I don't get clear answers back. She said once that she decided one day she'd rather be a "strong woman" than a man, that much of her feeling had more to do with falling in love with straight women in the past and wishing she could be what they wanted. But I do keep it in the back of my head that transition may be part of the future I have with her - the future is uncharted - but we both know as much as we can about where each of us is regarding the subject.

[Greyson]

I realize this thread is focused on "Loving a Transman" in a romantic way. I do want to point out that we can love a Transman in an unromantic sexual way and this friendship love may still require a friend to go on a journey of sorts with their Transman friend.

I am a Transman. (Do not assume because I say I am a Transman that I think I am some sort of mistake or I believe myself to be the same as a cisman.) Back to loving a Transman.

I have friends, that are Transmen and I care about them deeply. Because I am part of their circle, the people they share their authentic life with, I also am expected on some level to respect their choices. If I cannot respect their choices, do I leave their life? Maybe, maybe not. I have a very strong Queer identity. I go into a closet for no one. Not even myself. For me I cannot be in the closet, stealth. Does this make be a better person? IMO, No. It is my choice to be out. Now, I also have Transmen in my life that I care about and love as a fellow human being. It can and has challenged our friendship. I can and will respect their choice to be in the closet and or to leave their Queer identity, allegience behind. (Not all Transmen make that choice, some do.)

I find I still can love this guy and support him but our friendship may be tried. I will hold my tongue and not speak freely if we are with his straight friends that are not privy to the truth of his past life. It is also my choice to decide do I stay in my friend's life or not. As they also choose do they keep a person such as me in their life.

That's it.

[Nat]

Originally Posted by Greyson

I realize this thread is focused on "Loving a Transman" in a romantic way. I do want to point out that we can love a Transman in an unromantic sexual way and this friendship love may still require a friend to go on a journey of sorts with their Transman friend.

I am a Transman. (Do not assume because I say I am a Transman that I think I am some sort of mistake or I believe myself to be the same as a cisman.) Back to loving a Transman.

I have friends, that are Transmen and I care about them deeply. Because I am part of their circle, the people they share their authentic life with, I also am expected on some level to respect their choices. If I cannot respect their choices, do I leave their life? Maybe, maybe not. I have a very strong Queer identity. I go into a closet for no one. Not even myself. For me I cannot be in the closet, stealth. Does this make be a better person? IMO, No. It is my choice to be out. Now, I also have Transmen in my life that I care about and love as a fellow human being. It can and has challenged our friendship. I can and will respect their choice to be in the closet and or to leave their Queer identity, allegience behind. (Not all Transmen make that choice, some do.)

I find I still can love this guy and support him but our friendship may be tried. I will hold my tongue and not speak freely if we are with his straight friends that are not privy to the truth of his past life. It is also my choice to decide do I stay in my friend's life or not. As they also choose do they keep a person such as me in their life.

That's it.

Love you Greyson

[Gemme]

Originally Posted by Deborah

I guess I have become confused as to the purpose of this thread...

It'll come around again...you know us...we have to take the long road to get to the nearest town in serious discussions.

Originally Posted by HowSoonIsNow

I looked for support but found very little because partners don’t generally talk about the difficulties we face in transition. Nobody wants to be the one to say, “This fucking hurts,” lest we be judged by the politically fuelled who would label us transphobic.

(from the original article)




....but no one discusses this

Ebon is the second Transguy I've been with. The first relationship was doomed from the beginning for one reason and no matter how wonderful the other stuff may or may not have been, it was not going to work because of this.

He wanted to sever all ties with the LGBT3Q2I community as if he didn't have his birth defect all those years and he expected...nay, demanded...that I follow suit.

First of all, you damn well don't DEMAND I follow in your footsteps like that and certainly not about anything that's so life changing.

Secondly, you don't get to decide how the rest of anyone else's like plays out except yours.

Third, no matter how I identify...and it's changed over the years...I will always be a part of this community.

Luckily for Ebon, he knows and respects this.

Originally Posted by julieisafemme

I thought we were discussing it. What do you want to discuss about it? It will be different here than in a room full of partners. I am ok with discussions of transphobia as well as sharing my experience.

I agree that's it's all interconnected by I came in here to read about what femmes in relationships like mine had to say, not necessarily fighting over context and vocabulary.

When I first came out, I hung out at the only gay bar in the little redneck county I lived in. It had an awesome but small drag show and there was always a bevy of beautiful queens and MtF performers there. I learned their lingo and they often used 'tranny' to describe themselves and one another in jest and complete seriousness and it was a perfectly acceptable term.

Maybe it was because there were a lot of gay men there and gay men are very influential. Maybe it was because that's the only terms they knew. Maybe it's because that's what they felt best suited them at that time.

I'm not sure. All I knew was that that was another word to add to my expanding vocabulary. It was only when I came onto sites like this did I realize that others did not share that same or similar experience with the word. Before I realized how offensive it was to some, I felt it was like dyke...a word that could be used against our community by those outside of it for the purposes of hurting or shaming us, but that we could take it back and empower ourselves with it. Not so much, I guess. But part of what makes our community so unique is our diversity and, with that, comes differences in all aspects of our lives.

Originally Posted by Sparx1_1

I think what's being overlooked here is the fact that when a person transitions - they are making a choice and doing it willingly. It's not a simple or easy process and they need and deserve the support they get. The problem is that there really isn't much thought given to the wives and girlfriends who are forced into transitions of their own as part of his transition.

Their partners don't necessarily have a choice. They didn't ask for it and they are very often labelled transphobic if they do decide they can't or won't deal with it. They are expected to be the supporters but are rarely supported themselves. They are not allowed to grieve for the things they will lose - their female partner, their queer identity, their visibility. For them it ends up being a very big trap that very few can navigate successfully. Like it or not, some resentment, frustration, and anger will usually be part of the process and the world of kindness and PC-speak might just take a (hopefully short) vacation.

Almost all of us lost friends and family simply by coming out of the closet. We lost jobs, homes and opportunities that we can never get back. Femmes in particular already struggle with invisibility both inside and outside the queer community. After such a long, hard uphill battle just to be who you are, why would anyone expect them to be PC about being faced with the transition of someone they love?

Transitioning puts the partner back in the closet. After all I've been through just to come out of my closet, I sure as hell would not be the least bit pleasant or nice about being tucked back into one. But - when you are emotionally invested in someone, you don't just walk away. You stay, you struggle and you try to work it out; that is what a committed relationship is all about.

Exactly!!!!

Being the partner of a transitioning person can be another coming out....or pushing in, as the case may be. A rebirth of sorts, but one we have little to no control over. For control freaks like me, it can be a scary ass thing.

I remember sitting in my apartment and just curling up and crying when I was supposed to be on my way to see him. We lived about an hour and a half apart and saw each other on the weekends and odd days off during the week. I literally felt as if all my emotions had taken flight and were swirling around me, like a tornado funnel. I felt as if everything I knew was also in that funnel, just flying around me. Close enough to reach out and touch but I couldn't grasp any of it firmly. It felt like the emotional version of vertigo, like when you stand up too quickly and that momentary spacey swirly feeling, except it didn't go away after a second. It didn't stop. Not until the relationship ended.

In the end, he was demanding things of me that he had no right to demand and I was too naive to know that. I felt that I was doing it wrong. I was not playing the right role in our relationship and that was somehow hurting him. I felt that I was secondary to what was happening to him and that I was a bad girlfriend for speaking in any way that could be determined to be or twisted to be negative. I felt sad. Depressed. Unworthy. Incompetent.

I had given up a wonderful man when I came out. I was married to the sweetest guy and I broke his heart into a million pieces. I had built my life back up from nothing, because I took very little with me due to the shame I felt at hurting my husband. So, I had come from that mindset and I'd dated some and I was beginning to feel as if I had made the right decision and that things were going well.

And then I met him.

And then I was nothing.

Walking away from that relationship hurt and I left a lot of myself on the floor. It really pisses me off when folks try to shame those who leave. We all leave. The butch leaves when the Transguy develops. Sometimes, the femme leaves when the butch leaves and sometimes the femme leaves when the Transguy makes his appearance.

We. All. Leave.

Sometimes it *is* one person's fault. Most of the time, in these relationships that don't work out, it's no one's *fault*. It just is what it is.

Ebon and I have had 'leaving' discussions and have talked about all the 'if then' situations we could think of. We know that he will change as he delves deeper into his transition and, thus, I will change.

But, Hell. Everyone changes. Change is the ONLY thing that is guaranteed. With medical advances and the slickness of tax evasion nowadays, death and taxes aren't always a guarantee anymore.

Maybe we'll mesh more and have a stronger relationship. Maybe we'll drift apart. The one thing I am certain of is that we'll always be a part of one another's lives, no matter the capacity.