How did you know?

[kassykit]

Guess i been trying to think of how to ask this question for the longest time. Please don't yell at me, or get offended by the following post. It takes a lot for me to post something public.

To start off before I get to my question I feel the need to explain a little about me.

I was sexually abused for a large portion of my childhood. I learned that to dress as a "girl" was to open myself up to the possiblity of it happening more often. A lot of the time my family just simply couldn't afford new cloths anyways. So i suppose it is lucky that my dresses and "girl" cloths were few and far between. I grew up more likely to run out and hide in the woods, it was safe there, than i was to stay at home and play with dolls. Realize this was years after the abuse started. Let me just say right off, no it was not my father, mother, or brothers. It was other close "friends" of the family. My parents put me through theraphy and since they found out they have been supportive to a point.

So with that being said, I grew up needing to protect myself by being a "boy".

I do not identify as "butch". I do not identify as a "tweener". I do identify as "femme". I don't wear a lot of makeup, I do tend to wear jeans, tshirts and hide behind banter.

After doing a lot of reading, I am starting to wonder about myself. About the labels that the people around me are using.

Butch does not equal boylike, it's a way that person carries themselves. To me anyway. I can't even define it properly. All i know is it isn't me.

Tweeners. well, i'm not 100 percent sure what this even means! So how could i be a tweener if i'm not sure what it IS?

Femme, well why do I feel I am more femme than anything else. This is the part i'm afraid of explaining. So be patient.

- femmes are lipstick toteing, high heel wearing, skirt flaring, shopaholics.... this is the typical sterotype seen in popular media......no this is not me

i like lipstick, i like makeup, i like shopping, i like skirts, shopping and all that ...... but sometimes jeans are just plain dandy!

I have never had my nails done professionally......nor my toes O_O (no one touches dah feet!!! ))

I have short hair...... I hate it, but it's a work in progress.

I can hang just fine with the boys/bois/men in my life. I have few female friends, mostly cuz they scare me!

You talk about makeup and well i know how to do my makeup one way.... goth

Yes in highschool i was the one in black leggings, a short skirt or cutoff shirts......combat boots, a sportsbra and a seethrough football jersy....all black.. or close to it anyway..... and yes the boots were shined ... i wore dark makeup, always had my hair in a pony tail and people gave me space and avoided me..... i was a introvert.... i am more extroverted these days.... the makeup, the dressing, that was as i've come now to realize a set of armor.... i lost the ablity to do it somewhere.... about the time i got into my last relationship.....

What to each of you who read this, What makes you femme? what makes you identify as femme?

i can't define femme as i am so confused now from all the various debates and threads on sexualilty.......am i thinking to much on it?

and if you ask anyone who "knows" me, they say i'm a girlie girl..... no idea why.... how does someone who is confused at this point, define themselves if the definitions themselves seem to be changing?

[Gemme]

Kassy, just as you mentioned in your post, it's more of a feeling. You said butch didn't always mean dressing boylike but you knew you aren't one. It's the same with femme. If you feel it, then it is so.

There are tons of 'types' of femmes in this world of ours. Tomboy femmes, high femmes, lipstick femmes, and the list goes on. You should define yourself as YOU see yourself; no one else. After all, you have to live with you and the decisions you make for yourself.

For myself, I am femme because I am. I've known it since I first admitted (not realized...ADMITTED) that I wasn't straight. In the most simplistic view, I saw GLBTQ relationships as having a more feminine partner and a more masculine partner. I knew I was the more feminine partner from the beginning. Of course, as I've grown more comfortable with myself, I've realized that our kind of relationships are anything BUT simple. But I am still femme.

Some days, I like to get dressed up and do the heels and make up and whatnot. Some days I am very low key. It depends on what I feel like doing that day. I like to be pampered but I'm not going to get a mani or pedi every week (unless I win the lottery and then I'll have more time and funds to devote to stuff like that and then it still wouldn't be EVERY week).

So, don't worry about how others see you or if you are defining yourself 'right'. It's your label, if you choose to use one. You need to be okay with it before anyone else, after all, it's YOUR label.

[Apocalipstic]

Cool thread subject!

At first, when I came out in the early 80's, it was so not cool to be Femme and to be honest I fought being Femme. I was told I had to be submissive and a bottom to be Femme. Of course now I know that is not true.

I definitely have a guy side. I wear makeup sometimes, but not always. I love to watch cartoons with my hand in my pants like Al Bundy and burp aloud. I know way more about cars than my Butch G/F who used to work in a car factory.

I also had a childhood that made me want to hide my femininity and also did the Goth thing, though in college, not high school. I still tend to wear black a lot. Regular makeup is the same as Goth, just less harsh colors. Not sure what your coloring is, but I wear brown liner instead of black and so forth now. I would still do the Goth thing, but at 46, it does not seem like an option any more...I save it for parties from time to time.

No matter what I wear, or what I am doing I am girly, so I finally decided to accept it and go with being Femme.

There are all types of Femme, just enjoy being YOU!

That was kinda rambling, but I hope it helps.

[kassykit]

Originally Posted by apocalipstic

Cool thread subject!

At first, when I came out in the early 80's, it was so not cool to be Femme and to be honest I fought being Femme. I was told I had to be submissive and a bottom to be Femme. Of course now I know that is not true.

I definitely have a guy side. I wear makeup sometimes, but not always. I love to watch cartoons with my hand in my pants like Al Bundy and burp aloud. I know way more about cars than my Butch G/F who used to work in a car factory.

I also had a childhood that made me want to hide my femininity and also did the Goth thing, though in college, not high school. I still tend to wear black a lot. Regular makeup is the same as Goth, just less harsh colors. Not sure what your coloring is, but I wear brown liner instead of black and so forth now. I would still do the Goth thing, but at 46, it does not seem like an option any more...I save it for parties from time to time.

No matter what I wear, or what I am doing I am girly, so I finally decided to accept it and go with being Femme.

There are all types of Femme, just enjoy being YOU!

That was kinda rambling, but I hope it helps.

Goth = not so dark makeup

So i can draw designs on my cheeks? -giggles-

And yes at 29 i've decided (well i decided at 25) that i needed to "grow" up and act more mainstream in order to succeed in this world!

And i enjoy rambling

[kassykit]

So in other words, stop worrying so much about it?

Shoot i joke around and say i'm a manly man etc.......always makes my friends laugh.

I guess to me that's important, the laughter.

So can we have another labeL?

that of clown?

thank you for your post hun, i'll read it, digest it (after more coffee) an do up a replay with more questions if i fee its needed, thank you for being poliet! Now can soemone just hand me a book, or a program where i enter in my personality and it gives me answers? all this searchign mysef is at times painful and frustraiting!

Originally Posted by Gemme

Kassy, just as you mentioned in your post, it's more of a feeling. You said butch didn't always mean dressing boylike but you knew you aren't one. It's the same with femme. If you feel it, then it is so.

[NJFemmie]

Yes, stop worrying so much about it.
Be whoever it is you feel you are and let the rest of the world deal with it.

[kassykit]

Ok first off i LOVE the piccy!! -points to dah kitty making the puppies sleep-



sometimes it's hard tojust be yourself, or at least it is for me!! which i suppose is why i'm soul searching

am hunting for answers, inside and outside......

thank you for your input

Originally Posted by NJFemmie

Yes, stop worrying so much about it.
Be whoever it is you feel you are and let the rest of the world deal with it.

[Apocalipstic]

Originally Posted by kassykit

Goth = not so dark makeup

So i can draw designs on my cheeks? -giggles-

And yes at 29 i've decided (well i decided at 25) that i needed to "grow" up and act more mainstream in order to succeed in this world!

And i enjoy rambling

If the designs are in a nice taupe and not for work! Laughhhhhhhhh!

[Kenna]

Originally Posted by kassykit

......sometimes it's hard to just be yourself, or at least it is for me!! which i suppose is why i'm soul searching

am hunting for answers, inside and outside......

thank you for your input

Dearest Mishy, you certainly are not alone.

I won't give my long life story to describe how I relate to you...I won't turn this subject into "all about me"... but I will support you with open arms and a warm understanding heart in your soul searching and hunting for answers....

My story shortened, my childhood was filled with much the same thing and MANY times I hid in the mountains and countryside, arriving home well after dark willing to take the whipping for missing dinner rather than be at home... I am also a Rape Survivor. I came out several years ago and have, until very recently, struggled very much with my femme/lesbian identity and "how do I fit in". One of my accomplishments in life was turning my feelings as a rape victim, into becoming a Survivor (in all senses of the word, and becoming a Domestic Violence Advocate). Being a Survivor (to me) does not allow my abusers or my rapist to re-victimize me or continue to abuse me, in any form...especially my mental/physical health state. I do not intend to down play anyone who is a victim (absolutely no insult intended)...after my abuse, I HAD to see myself as a Survivor, or lose my mind...

My struggle with "am I Femme?", came from not being confident of myself, not having much of a community here or mentors, my lack of knowledge of various identities and dynamics and my misconception that "Femme" meant my outside appearances only ...how I dressed, etc. I have many hobbies that are related to masculine activities/stereotypes (including all things mechanical)... at work, I am very much a "High Power Priss" in my "kick ass femmie clothes and sexy boots" (sometimes even wearing a beautiful corset & thigh highs under my black "stuffy" business suit)... but for the longest time, I questioned "Am I Femme?, what does Femme mean to me?... I'm not Top? I'm not always submissive so I didn't consider myself entirely bottom... am I Butch because I like to fix cars and am very aggressive in the boardroom at work?... etc, etc...does Femme mean just how I dress?"

Very recently I entered into a wonderful, very promising relationship with an AMAZING StoneButch...someone I took my time getting to know and respect. Someone who has gently and patiently guided me and stood beside me during my "identity crisis" and my journey to find what Femme means to me... after reading one of her posts on "the other site" and talking with her more, I suddenly and with much delight realized that I AM FEMME because Femme is what I am inside, not my outside appearances and I am NOT a "confused straight woman" (as I had been accused of being by a heartless person, I pass for straight and to the het world, am an "invisible Femme" because I'm not recognized or accepted as a lesbian or Femme..."they just don't get me".) ... I AM Femme because I am a Survivor and I AM PROUD of Surviving my hardships and PROUD of who I am... I am Femme while in my bluejeans and baseball cap with pony tail looped out the back when I go outside to bust my knuckles on the manifold of my car... I AM a FEISTY Femme as I stand in my boardroom and tell them how it is, my way or the highway... I am Femme when I come home and take my "boss hat" off, kick my boots off and proceed to kiss and greet my partner and turn into a Sweet, Loving, Content, Gentle, Cute, Sexy, Smart, Quiet, Thoughtful, Respectful, Affectionate "Queen of my Kitchen" Femme that my partner adores. I recently joked with my partner... "I'm not Femme Top, I'm not entirely Femme Bottom... can I be Femme Middle?" lol

Hon, be yourself... turn your soul searching into a Journey to find what your identity means to you... in the process and struggle, be careful not to lose "Mishy".

We love, respect and adore you...Mishy... no matter what ID or label you feel comfortable with...

sorry I rambled, it was more than I had intended... but this subject and supporting you is very near and dear to my heart. Look me up any time... Much TLC,
S&C
ID: Queen of my Kitchen

[blush]

Originally Posted by kassykit

and if you ask anyone who "knows" me, they say i'm a girlie girl..... no idea why.... how does someone who is confused at this point, define themselves if the definitions themselves seem to be changing?

Doesn't it sometimes seem that the femme "label" is bestowed upon us like some gift? I've been called every version of femme in the book. And after awhile it irritated me. Who gave anyone permission to decide who I was? Or what "type" of femme I was because it suited their definition.

If femme resonates with you, make it your own.

[WolfyOne]

Kassy, I read your original post and I have to tell you, you're not alone in this world we've created, full of labels and identities. My GF is a jeans and tee shirt gal, but considers herself to be femme. She can dress up or down and never wears makeup because she's allergic to most all brands. Those here that know her, know what I mean. I often call her my tweener, but she hates the label, so I've taken to calling her toolbelt femme at times. She has more tools than I'd ever seen in one house and she can use all of them. I, on the other hand, consider myself to be a butch, but I'm not as good with tools as my GF....I have no depth perception, but it doesn't make me any less butch. I'm thankful to have a woman in my life that's better at the things I'm not good at. So, in the end, don't worry about what you wear or don't wear. You can be anyone you want to be and don't ever let anyone ever tell you different. How you feel from the inside out is totally up to you.

[kassykit]

Thank you ! sometimes when it comes to these labels i feel if i'm beating my head against a wall one day i will break down the wall and be comfy with being me!

Originally Posted by WolfyOne

Kassy, I read your original post and I have to tell you, you're not alone in this world we've created, full of labels and identities. My GF is a jeans and tee shirt gal, but considers herself to be femme. She can dress up or down and never wears makeup because she's allergic to most all brands. Those here that know her, know what I mean. I often call her my tweener, but she hates the label, so I've taken to calling her toolbelt femme at times. She has more tools than I'd ever seen in one house and she can use all of them. I, on the other hand, consider myself to be a butch, but I'm not as good with tools as my GF....I have no depth perception, but it doesn't make me any less butch. I'm thankful to have a woman in my life that's better at the things I'm not good at. So, in the end, don't worry about what you wear or don't wear. You can be anyone you want to be and don't ever let anyone ever tell you different. How you feel from the inside out is totally up to you.

[WolfyOne]

Originally Posted by kassykit

Thank you ! sometimes when it comes to these labels i feel if i'm beating my head against a wall one day i will break down the wall and be comfy with being me!

Sometimes it takes years before one can be comfy with themselves. First you have to figure out who you are or want to be. I've seen gals transform from being a total femme to breaking out and becoming butch. What used to be expected of us is no longer something we have to stand behind. Sometimes all it takes is coming out to family and friends that makes us begin to feel comfy with who we are or who we want to grow into. Trust yourself and it'll all fall into place.

[kassykit]

i'm out, i'm just confused half the time about all the labels, and i get them mixed up and then people get angry!!

I think i like the idea of when asked if i'm butch, femme or a tweener, i'm going to start saying i'm me, mishy.....

[kassykit]

Originally Posted by blush

Doesn't it sometimes seem that the femme "label" is bestowed upon us like some gift? I've been called every version of femme in the book. And after awhile it irritated me. Who gave anyone permission to decide who I was? Or what "type" of femme I was because it suited their definition.

If femme resonates with you, make it your own.

I am deffinately trying to do this! I like to know other peoples POV's cuz it opens to my mind! new roads and ways of thought!!


If i wanna be a flannelwearing, truckdriving cowgirl femme! then so be it! just because i like fannels doenst make me butch!

correct??

**disclaimer, there is nothing wrong with being butch, i just ain't