Genderless Baby

[noneoftheabove]

Originally Posted by nowandthen

http://www.parentcentral.ca/parent/b...-gender-secret

Was brought up in another thread but i think it deserves its own. The straight world is strongly opposed. I wonder what people here think.

[Corkey]

I've always insisted we're Human first, so good for them yet another couple who is doing this, one in Switzerland is doing this as well, I think.

[Soon]

http://www.butchfemmeplanet.com/foru...ead.php?t=1976


i was like i swear there was a thread on a swedish couple who did the same thing....and, lo and behold, i started it!

ha.

just thought i'd bump it up for you, noneoftheabove, so you can see what people thought of it at the time.

[noneoftheabove]

Oh OK thanks

[EnderD_503]

I was reading about that in the Toronto Star over the weekend. I know the next day or something there were a bunch of responses by people saying they were "screwing the kid up" and "experimenting" on the kid. I think it has nothing to do with "screwing the kid up" and more the fact that people aren't comfortable with it and won't admit it.

Personally, it's good to see some parents taking this approach. We talk a lot around here about making the world a better place and the problems that the gender binary causes, yet as was demonstrated in the thread HSIN linked to even here it seems like some aren't comfortable with it.

Why? How can we hope to get rid of this tendency to force children into gender expectations if we can't even be accepting of a child who's gender we aren't aware of? How can you then expect kids to be accepting of it if the parents still teach them that everyone needs to have a gender or that gender must be known.

Anyways, kudos to these parents. Unlike most parents, they are not trying to force their kid into a gendered box. Funny how that is "harmful" to those who seem to approve forcing kids to act in certain ways based on chromosomes.

[Diva]

Originally Posted by EnderD_503

I was reading about that in the Toronto Star over the weekend. I know the next day or something there were a bunch of responses by people saying they were "screwing the kid up" and "experimenting" on the kid. I think it has nothing to do with "screwing the kid up" and more the fact that people aren't comfortable with it and won't admit it.

Personally, it's good to see some parents taking this approach. We talk a lot around here about making the world a better place and the problems that the gender binary causes, yet as was demonstrated in the thread HSIN linked to even here it seems like some aren't comfortable with it.

Why? How can we hope to get rid of this tendency to force children into gender expectations if we can't even be accepting of a child who's gender we aren't aware of? How can you then expect kids to be accepting of it if the parents still teach them that everyone needs to have a gender or that gender must be known.

Anyways, kudos to these parents. Unlike most parents, they are not trying to force their kid into a gendered box. Funny how that is "harmful" to those who seem to approve forcing kids to act in certain ways based on chromosomes.

Of course, I have something to say about this.....


When I first heard this story, I sat back in my chair and thought.....well. How DO I feel about this?

I'm 58. Old school, I guess. But I'm thinking that I really admire these parents who are going to 'let thechips fall where they may'. How progressive!! How selfless of them to care for the CHILD'S development instead of their own!!!

Refreshing!

And then I thought....who cares!?!?! Is this child healthy? Is this child happy? Is this child LOVED?!?! Those are the important things, really, are they not?

And besides.....what f***ing business is it of OURS to say one way or another? Hmmm?

Storm. Great name!

[greeneyedgrrl]

i think it's silly there's so much hoopla over this. when my daughter was a baby/toddler i dressed her in "boys" or "girls" clothes and when she was old enough she got to decide what she wore how i did her hair, i didn't keep her gender a secret (wish i'd a thought of it). i didn't tell strangers, but those close to me knew and when she went to daycare/school it was disclosed on her paperwork. people had a really hard time when she was walking around in her little hiking boots and spiderman tee (her fave character even tho she wasn't exposed to tv), and they treated us completely different when she was wearing dresses. when she went to a school in a conservative area she chose to wear "girls" clothes for the first few years and was super girly everything had to be pink, ruffly, and sparkly, but now at 10 she goes back and forth and sometimes people think she's my son. i'm really curious to see how it goes for these children. it sounds like they thought it through way better than i did!

[Quintease]

There are lots of ways to screw up what would have been perfectly normal, gendered children. I don't think this is one of them.

The mainstream world is just afraid of what's not 'normal'.

I'm actually quite offended by the outrage How do they think the regular 1.5% of the population with an unidentifiable gender manage every day of their lives? And the so-called 'experts' throwing their opinion out there as if it were fact. Grrr..

[Nat]

I think it's far more challenging for adults to deal with than anybody else.

[EnderD_503]

Originally Posted by Quintease

There are lots of ways to screw up what would have been perfectly normal, gendered children. I don't think this is one of them.

The mainstream world is just afraid of what's not 'normal'.

I'm actually quite offended by the outrage How do they think the regular 1.5% of the population with an unidentifiable gender manage every day of their lives? And the so-called 'experts' throwing their opinion out there as if it were fact. Grrr..

Agreed. Also makes me think of the shitstorm some parents in B.C. made over an anti-discrimination policy drawn up for schools in Burnaby. They go on about how it is "sexualizing" schools and looking at some of the signs from the protest, they said things like "don't put labels on children" and so on. Except that they are the ones putting labels on children and assuming that children are born within the "norm" and can be influenced into falling outside of it. It's easy for them to say that talking about homophobia, transphobia and heterosexism in schools is "sexualizing" the curriculum, yet schools, parents and society as a whole already are operating under the assumption that children are default heterosexuals/non-transgender. Sex ed is already taught fairly young in Canada, yet somehow talking about homophobia is "vulgar"?

And that's similar to what's going on with the people who are criticizing these parents in the newspapers who decided to raise their children as genderless, saying they are placing their own beliefs on their children etc. etc. These parents are assuming that every child is heterosexual and falls distinctly into a certain gender by default and that that default needs to be maintained. They, then, come to believe that raising a child as genderless endangers that supposedly "natural" default. Like others have said, it is all about the comfort level of adults, not that of young children.

Edit: and that makes me think as well as how people view raising a child as genderless is introducing children to the idea of being genderless prematurely... But it seems the whole argument is based on maintaining their own gendered worldview. How is it that we live in a world where enforcing gendered norms on children is not seen as "sexualization" or "inappropriate," yet introducing them to the concept of non-gender or a fluid gender or perhaps ignoring gender entirely is seen as "inappropriate"? It's almost like society fetishizes anything that is not the "norm."

[Quintease]

The problem is, people inside the 'norm' can't see that. They can't see that they themselves have a label that other people see as 'different'. It's like an English speaking person seeing English 'as the norm'. Or a person in a binary (gay/straight, black/white, male/female) seeing that as the 'norm' and all else is other.

[NJFemmie]

I grew up in a gender-defined free household and I turned out alright.

*nervous twitch*

[iamkeri1]

I think you did very well with this approach to gender issues with your child. Letting her choose her own style and expression seems just right to me.
Smooches,
Keri

Originally Posted by greeneyedgrrl

i think it's silly there's so much hoopla over this. when my daughter was a baby/toddler i dressed her in "boys" or "girls" clothes and when she was old enough she got to decide what she wore how i did her hair, i didn't keep her gender a secret (wish i'd a thought of it). i didn't tell strangers, but those close to me knew and when she went to daycare/school it was disclosed on her paperwork. people had a really hard time when she was walking around in her little hiking boots and spiderman tee (her fave character even tho she wasn't exposed to tv), and they treated us completely different when she was wearing dresses. when she went to a school in a conservative area she chose to wear "girls" clothes for the first few years and was super girly everything had to be pink, ruffly, and sparkly, but now at 10 she goes back and forth and sometimes people think she's my son. i'm really curious to see how it goes for these children. it sounds like they thought it through way better than i did!

[LaneyDoll]

I read the article a few days ago on Yahoo but the link here is to a MUCH better and more in depth piece.

I LOVE the name, Storm is a pretty cool name whether you are a guy or a girl-lol.

When my youngest was a toddler, a friend of mine gave me a pink teddy bear that Ethan loved. So, he started taking "winky-bear" to pre-school and everyone asked me "why is it pink" and I replied "why does it matter, its a teddy bear." A teacher bought him an exact replica in blue & presented it to Ethan then hinted later that I could do away with the pink one. Yeah right-tell any mom to get rid of her youngest child's cherished teddy bear. Ultimately, Ethan began to take BOTH bears to pre-school and named them "pink winky" and "blue winky." He is 7 now and the winky bears are still part of the family.

[Linus]

I'm still baffled by the whole concept that this might "damage" the child and yet, people have no issue with parents who teach their kids that slavery never happened, that the world is less than 2000 years old and that being intolerant is an ok thing to do.

[AtLast]

I certainly don't see this as abuse.

What I wish was true was change within the social definitions of gender completely! The only way we will stop the negative with gender role identification is if gender was viewed as the fluid and elastic concept that it really is. No need for stereotypic and oppressive gender roles if gender-ignorance is halted.

I know, a huge endeavor- but the seeds have been planted with research and political issues that can effect change in legislation for the entire gender spectrum. Long way to go- but we will get there.

[lisa93]

I say let the parents decide.