OCCUPY WALL STREET

[SoNotHer]

I know all of that, YB :-) I was looking for someone's personal recommendation.


[QUOTE=SoNotHer;435903]One of the actions some folks have taken in support of OWS is to change out their banks for credit unions. I'd be interested to hear what experiences you've had and if anyone can recommend a good credit union in the Chicagoland and NWI areas.

Thank you, and good night :-)

SNH

Use your internet to find one in your area. Benefits. Free checking accounts and free debit card useage. Most credit unions are employee owned and operated. That means NO CEO's, CFO's and all that 1% sucking money away from the 99% doesn't exist. Those positions are volunteers comprised of members. MOST credit unions use what they call shared services....For example...my credit union is in Memphis Tn. I have never *met* them in person. But through the wonders of electronic communication and shared banking, that means you can go to most credit unions and they honor the services of each other....anyhow, I set mine up via electronic, verified it via shared services, and that was that. Checking pays interest. Savings interest is more than a bank. CD's are higher than a bank, and loan services are lower than a bank. Again, because only the 99% are employed. It makes better cents (pun intended)

http://images.decal-orations.com/graphics/a/am/americas_credit_unions.png

[Sachita]

I am looking into credit unions. It's tricky moving everything and a pain in the ass but I know I must. I have business accounts and we also have ACH deposits to consider. Not to mention all the automated billing.

For the past year I have offered discounts on cash. Most of my local business pays cash and I have also begun doing more bartering. I know this isn't always possible for people but bartering is great. I trade boarding services and marketing services. I have my own server, build sites and market them for monthly subscriptions I trade. Its great.

[Dominique]

I am looking into credit unions. It's tricky moving everything and a pain in the ass but I know I must. I have business accounts and we also have ACH deposits to consider. Not to mention all the automated billing.

For the past year I have offered discounts on cash. Most of my local business pays cash and I have also begun doing more bartering. I know this isn't always possible for people but bartering is great. I trade boarding services and marketing services. I have my own server, build sites and market them for monthly subscriptions I trade. Its great.

Hi Sachita, it took me pretty much an entire day. I started the month before, with a bank statement to see who I had the direct withdrawls with.

Then I set up my plan. The next thing I did was open the new checking account. Once I got moving, it wasn't too bad. I made a standard form letter to mail everyone that I had the direct wirthdrawl with, as a back up, in case they screwed it up. But no one did, it was very smooth. I had more problems with my employer at the time getting the direct deposits correct:blink:, and it was employee sponsored thru them. I MADE my sister join. Now, she is all about credit unions.

[Dominique]

[QUOTE=SoNotHer;436120]I know all of that, YB :-) I was looking for someone's personal recommendation.


Ha ha! Busted me on being little miss know it all, before coffee. :police:

I'd recommend my credit union to you in a heart beat but you'd have to be a member of my family. However, I used the shared services of the Postal workers credit union, they are terrific...they treat me and my money like I am their member. As I said, my actual credit union has never seen me. Anything I need, they go ahead and do, as if they were my CU.
Check them out maybe.

I hear good things about US Airways credit union too,The postal CU is one block from my house, so thats why I never looked beyond them.

Any of them is better than a bank. coffee anyone?:tea:

[dykeumentary]

I'm a member of Alternatives credit union in Ithaca. I really like it, because the little bit of money I have there gets loaned out -at a fair rate- to people in the community, rather than leaving the town and going to a million dollar bonus of some executive.

I hate capitalism. I don't think that that people's labor should be sold to the lowest bidder. I think that exploiting labor and the earth are criminal acts, and shouldn't be financially rewarded.

[Sachita]

I'm a member of Alternatives credit union in Ithaca. I really like it, because the little bit of money I have there gets loaned out -at a fair rate- to people in the community, rather than leaving the town and going to a million dollar bonus of some executive.

I hate capitalism. I don't think that that people's labor should be sold to the lowest bidder. I think that exploiting labor and the earth are criminal acts, and shouldn't be financially rewarded.

Do most credit unions keep money within the community? I'm not entirely sure how they operate but that seems like a great thing.


I see a lot of activity and a lot of people standing up but I don't see any action. Its time to see action.

[Dominique]

Originally posted Oct. 01, 2011
Street rights: The Wall Street police clash sends a message
Saturday, October 01, 2011
Pittsburgh Post-Gazette
As protests go, the march from New York's financial district to Union Square last Saturday should not have been a big deal. Although the protesters, a loose coalition of anti-capitalism activists, did not have a permit for the march, their demonstration was generally peaceful and harmless.
Their numbers fell far short of the thousands they would have liked to muster for their ongoing protest, Occupy Wall Street. Still, it was a day for chanting slogans about financial practices that hurt the poor and the middle class, and for waving placards denouncing capitalism, free trade agreements, bank bailouts, the rich and corporate greed.
Because the marchers, who had confined their previous protests to Wall Street, lacked a permit, there was fear in the New York Police Department that the expanded event could turn violent, like the demonstrations that greeted the Group of 20 in London two years ago and the World Trade Organization in Seattle in 1999.
The New York police moved in to stop the marchers. Video of the operation showed rough tactics being used on unarmed and nonthreatening demonstrators. Marchers were thrown to the ground and dozens were arrested. Four women who were standing behind orange netting were pepper-sprayed by a deputy inspector.
The police insist that the dozens of arrests and the pepper-spraying were done according to procedure. Others on the scene beg to differ. On Wednesday the police commissioner said the Internal Affairs Bureau will look into the pepper spray decision.
Meanwhile, the protests in the financial district are expected to continue because the demonstrators have permission to picket there. Our advice to the NYPD comes courtesy of lessons learned here when Pittsburgh hosted the G-20 in 2009.
There are rights to be balanced out on those streets. A right to peaceably protest. A right to have access to streets, sidewalks and buildings. A right to feel safe.
It's not too much to ask the police to observe those rights. And it's not too much to expect the demonstrators to deliver their message while respecting the same rights as well.

First published on October 1, 2011 at 12:00 am



Read more: http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/11274/1178902-192.stm#ixzz1abEwstQ4

[Sachita]

The protesters in the nascent movement have been criticized for being too decentralized and lacking a clear list of demands. But they are bearing witness to the corruption of our politics; if they made demands to those in power, it would suggest those in power could do something about it. This contradicts what is, perhaps, their most compelling point: that our institutions and politicians serve the top 1 percent, not the other 99.

http://www.npr.org/2011/10/12/141263585/the-nation-wall-st-protests-will-shape-politics

This is partly true BUT there are so many fucked up things the government has allowed. I'm thrill to see so many people standing up but there needs to be a firm agenda and some actions taken soon. You already see the media twisting news and you have to wonder what is really going on behind the scenes in the minds of politicians. I have major trust issues with them.

[dykeumentary]

Do most credit unions keep money within the community? I'm not entirely sure how they operate but that seems like a great thing.


I see a lot of activity and a lot of people standing up but I don't see any action. Its time to see action.
Here are some thoughts from my credit union's website:
"Many bank at Alternatives because of our community focus and social change philosophy, while others have chosen us simply for our services. Our social mission is integrated into our economic mission, so for whatever reason, joining Alternatives is making a choice towards a more economically just community.

We take pride in our services, policies and procedures because they contribute to a better society, a healthier community or a financially sound member. Some of our more innovative programs include: Individual Development Accounts (IDAs), Business CENTS (our small business development program), Student Credit Union, the Free Tax Preparation Program, lending for minority and women-owned businesses, affordable mortgages, and much more."

And regarding action, Sachita, I know that you and I as rural, sustainable people know the value of patience! I see all these "occupy" actions as big compost piles. Sure they don't look like much now, and they have all kinds of disorganized elements that don't seem to go together well, but give that organic matter a chance to hang out together long enough with the right conditions, and in time you get some kick-ass compost that will fertilze, nourish and support even more life! I don't know yet what the result of these actions will be, but nature would suggest that it will be positive in the long run.

[Sachita]

And regarding action, Sachita, I know that you and I as rural, sustainable people know the value of patience! I see all these "occupy" actions as big compost piles. Sure they don't look like much now, and they have all kinds of disorganized elements that don't seem to go together well, but give that organic matter a chance to hang out together long enough with the right conditions, and in time you get some kick-ass compost that will fertilze, nourish and support even more life! I don't know yet what the result of these actions will be, but nature would suggest that it will be positive in the long run.


I know I know... I admit I'm inpatient. I know change won't happen overnight but I sure would like to see some big politicians jumping on this bandwagon and making public speeches about it. But it's also going to be a huge agenda, perhaps perfect timing for elections, during voting. I worry thought that we'll get a lot of lip service as we have in the pass.

So other then people moving bank accounts from banks what other strong actions are people taking?

[SoNotHer]

I talked to a couple people today including a colleague with whom I immediately bonded with about the protests. We're going to hook up and go into Chicago. I had him laughing when I compared the bloated corporatocracy to the "Death Star" (we're both SF/Fantasy geeks), and he responded, "Yeah, and I don't see any Luke Skywalker around ready to fire the shots to blow that thing up." We laughed hard.

Anyway, I've got a line on a credit union. Thanks everyone.

[atomiczombie]

I worry about just how long the protests can go on with winter coming.

[Corkey]

I worry about just how long the protests can go on with winter coming.

My hope is that it spreads further than just the east, Occupy the US entirely.
Winters can be brutal out here.

[Ebon]

I worry about just how long the protests can go on with winter coming.

Yeah I was thinking about that.

[SoNotHer]

on indigenous peoples' day. Maybe another quote here would serve to embolden and allay - I've worried as well about the effect of winter on the protests:

From A People's History of the United States, "Robber Barons and Rebels":

"That winter in Yonkers, a few women carpet weavers were fired for joining the Knights [of Labor], and in the cold of February, 2,500 women walked out and picketed the mill. Only seven hundred of them were members of the Knights, but all the strikers soon joined. The police attacked the picket line and arrested them, but a jury found them not guilty. A great dinner was held by working people in New York to honor them, with two thousand delegates from unions all over the city. The strike lasted six months, and the women won some of their demands, getting back their jobs, but without recognition of their union.

What was astonishing in so many of these struggles was not that the strikers did not win all that they wanted, but that, against such great odds, they dared to resist, and were not destroyed."

[Corkey]

http://rt.com/usa/news/umbrellas-outlawed-occupy-seattle-585/

If one is going to protest in Seattle, you're going to get wet, or collapse

[Starbuck]

There's even people protesting here in Oklahoma! Don't know the size of the crowd but it made it onto the evening news last night.

[SoNotHer]

What Comes After Money? Book Signing. Reasons to Occupy Wall Street
Evolver NYC, Fri, Oct. 28

Come out for the book launch of What Comes After Money: Essays from Reality Sandwich on Transforming Currency & Community, edited by Evolver co-founders Daniel Pinchbeck and Ken Jordan. This anthology is particularly relevant as thousands of protesters across the U.S. take part in the #Occupy movement, challenging the current financial paradigm in order to create a better, more equitable world. Join the editors, as well as Jivamukti co-founder Sharon Gannon, and Day 1 Wall Street occupier Kelly Heresy.

Jivamukti Yoga School, 841 Broadway, 2nd Fl, Free, 8p.
http://www.realitysandwich.com/beyond_money

[atomiczombie]

http://i813.photobucket.com/albums/zz56/atomiczombie/wallstreetgreed.jpg

[nowandthen]

Here is some good thoughts on the relationship to power and movements. Rethinking how language arrives with meaning. Thinking how "decolonize" is a more inclusive term vs. how "occupied" is positioned in relations to indigenous communities around the globe.

http://oaklandlocal.com/posts/2011/10/thoughts-moving-forward-occupy-oakland-indigenous-peoples-day-and-all-our-struggles-co

[Cin]

Mayor Bloomburg is asking protesters to clear out for a clean up. The NY Post says they won't be allowed back in.

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/manhattan/wall_street_protestors_will_tents_4IyAa1fLfXamvvwk vSbHbM

There is a petition that will be presented to Mayor Bloomburg that anyone interested can sign at moveon.org

http://www.civic.moveon.org/defend_ows/

Another article about the attempt.
http://www.alternet.org/newsandviews/article/679714/occupy_wall_street_update%3A_nyc_protesters_fight_ against_eviction%2C_another_pepper-spray_victim_presses_charges/#paragraph3

[Ebon]

Mayor Bloomburg is asking protesters to clear out for a clean up. The NY Post says they won't be allowed back in.

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/m...fXamvvwkvSbHbM

There is a petition that will be presented to Mayor Bloomburg that anyone interested can sign at moveon.org

http://www.civic.moveon.org/defend_ows/

Another article about the attempt.
http://www.alternet.org/newsandviews...resses_charges

I hope they are not stupid enough to fall for that dumb ass crap.

[Cin]

I hope they are not stupid enough to fall for that dumb ass crap.

The last article in my post, the one from Alternet outlines a sort of plan.

Sorry the links weren't working. They seem to be okay now.

[SoNotHer]

When Bush came into office, the homeless in downtown DC disappeared. Homelessness didn't disappear, but the immediate presence of it did.

So this is the latest tactical response? Interesting. OK then let something fester beneath the surface and see how that works out.

The links worked, Miss Tick, when I cut and pasted in an address bar. Thanks for posting them.


The last article in my post, the one from Alternet outlines a sort of plan.

Sorry the links weren't working. They seem to be okay now.

[JAGG]

I know all of that, YB :-) I was looking for someone's personal recommendation.


[quote=Yellow band;436020]

You are a teacher. Maybe check your area we have Teachers federal CU here. Teachers get special rates etc.

[Sachita]

Mayor Bloomburg is asking protesters to clear out for a clean up. The NY Post says they won't be allowed back in.

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/manhattan/wall_street_protestors_will_tents_4IyAa1fLfXamvvwk vSbHbM

There is a petition that will be presented to Mayor Bloomburg that anyone interested can sign at moveon.org

http://www.civic.moveon.org/defend_ows/

Another article about the attempt.
http://www.alternet.org/newsandviews/article/679714/occupy_wall_street_update%3A_nyc_protesters_fight_ against_eviction%2C_another_pepper-spray_victim_presses_charges/#paragraph3


or start calling

http://www.occupywallst.org/article/emergency-call-action-prevent-forcible-closure-occ/


come on everyone flood the phones and messaging center! don't let this happen.

[atomiczombie]

EMERGENCY #OWS EVICTION DEFENSE:
Prevent the forcible closure of Occupy Wall Street

Tell Bloomberg: Don't Foreclose the Occupation.
NEED MASS TURN-OUT, SHOW UP NO LATER THAN 6 A.M.

This is an emergency situation. Please take a minute to read this, and please take action and spread the word far and wide.

Occupy Wall Street is gaining momentum, with occupation actions now happening in cities across the world.

But last night Mayor Bloomberg and the NYPD notified Occupy Wall Street participants about plans to “clean the park”—the site of the Wall Street protests—tomorrow starting at 7am. "Cleaning" was used as a pretext to shut down “Bloombergville” a few months back, and to shut down peaceful occupations elsewhere.

Bloomberg says that the park will be open for public usage following the cleaning, but with a notable caveat: Occupy Wall Street participants must follow the “rules”.
NYPD Police Commissioner Ray Kelly has said that they will move in to clear us and we will not be allowed to take sleeping bags, tarps, personal items or gear back into the park.
This is it—this is their attempt to shut down #OWS for good.

PLEASE TAKE ACTION

1) Call 311 (or +1 (212) NEW-YORK if you're out of town) and tell Bloomberg to support our right to assemble and to not interfere with #OWS.
2) Come to #OWS TONIGHT AT MIDNIGHT to defend the occupation from eviction.

For those of you who plan to help us hold our ground—which we hope will be all of you—make sure you understand the possible consequences. Be prepared to not get much sleep. Be prepared for possible arrest. Make sure your items are together and ready to go (or already out of the park.) We are pursuing all possible strategies; this is a message of solidarity.

LINK: http://www.occupywallst.org/article/emergency-call-action-prevent-forcible-closure-occ/

[Corkey]

Russell Simmons has personally asked to do the cleanup and pay for it. Lets see if Bloomberg accepts his offer, that is if it really is about "sanitation" as Bloomberg asserts.

[atomiczombie]

Russell Simmons has personally asked to do the cleanup and pay for it. Lets see if Bloomberg accepts his offer, that is if it really is about "sanitation" as Bloomberg asserts.

Of course it isn't about sanitation. And lots of other people are in the process of cleaning the park themselves. Bloomberg just wants people out. He says he will let them back in, however they won't be allowed to bring their tents and blankets with them. He wants them exposed to the elements so they will leave.

[Kätzchen]

I just had to post here tonight!

OWS has taken POrtland by storm!!!!!

Tonight, it took me two hours to get home from work.
Gridlock downtown; an OpEd in the paper today pressuring our mayor to shut it down
and I hope it doesn't happen.... I honked and made peace signs to supporters, saw some friends of mine, nearly got into an accident, and spent time down there tonight.

No rain or snow here can stop people from standing up and making our voices heard.

Just had to share,
~D

[Cin]

RGRXCgMdz9A

[Ebon]

They get to stay I hope.

c9D33hr4CW0

[SoNotHer]

Yes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Woohoo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


They get to stay I hope.

c9D33hr4CW0


http://front.moveon.org/breaking%2Doccupy%2Dwins%2Dbloomberg%2Dbacks%2Ddow n?id=31994-9280932-ANx%3Dyux

[Cin]

Apparently Brookfield Asset Management is a Canadian Company that owns Zuccotti Park. They have backed down for now, but they're still threatening to stop the protestors from camping.

You can send them a message from this website if you care to.
http://www.leadnow.ca/stop-occupy-wall-street-eviction

[SmoothButch]

I joined a credit union today.

Tomorrow I will end my relationship with my bank.


I.Cannot.Wait.


:mob:

[SmoothButch]

PLEASE CIRCULATE WIDELY: If you are arrested at an Occupy Event, call the National Lawyers Guild:

New York City: (212) 679-6018
Los Angeles: (323) 696-2299
Washington, DC: (202) 957 2445
Chicago: (773) 309-1198
San Francisco: (415) 285-1011
New Orleans: (504) 875-0019
Baltimore: (410) 205-2850
Minnesota: (612) 656-9108
Michigan: (313) 963-0843
Portland: (503) 902-5340
Boston: (617) 227-7335
Pennsylvania & Delaware: (267) 702-4654
Idaho: (208) 991-4324

Be very sure to write the applicable phone number in PERMANENT marker somewhere concealed on your body, protected from the elements. Do NOT assume you will be able to retrieve the number from a phone or a notebook. It is very likely you will be stripped of all your belongings.

[AtLast]

I so love the clips of protesters in NY clening up the park last night. Some great ones of people shining up trash recepticles. We do need to take responsibility for sanitation and public health measures at these kinds of things and it reinforces that Occupy Wall Street is about accountability! Now, if the banks and public corporations would catch on to their part in taking responsibility!!!!

The this Faux News and outlets- this is not a bunch of free-loading hippy types out there that need baths!!

Saw the prior Faux clips too with the pert young announcers crinkling their perfect noses at the 99% too!!

[atomiczombie]

'Occupy Wall Street' -- It's Not What They're for, But What They're Against

Critics of the growing Occupy Wall Street movement complain that the protesters don’t have a policy agenda and, therefore, don’t stand for anything. They're wrong. The key isn’t what protesters are for but rather what they’re against -- the gaping inequality that has poisoned our economy, our politics and our nation.

In America today, 400 people have more wealth than the bottom 150 million combined. That’s not because 150 million Americans are pathetically lazy or even unlucky. In fact, Americans have been working harder than ever -- productivity has risen in the last several decades. Big business profits and CEO bonuses have also gone up. Worker salaries, however, have declined.

Most of the Occupy Wall Street protesters aren’t opposed to free market capitalism. In fact, what they want is an end to the crony capitalist system now in place, that makes it easier for the rich and powerful to get even more rich and powerful while making it increasingly hard for the rest of us to get by. The protesters are not anti-American radicals. They are the defenders of the American Dream, the decision from the birth of our nation that success should be determined by hard work not royal bloodlines.

Sure, bank executives may work a lot harder than you and me or a mother of three doing checkout at a grocery store. Maybe the bankers work ten times harder. Maybe even a hundred times harder. But they’re compensated a thousand times more.
The question is not how Occupy Wall Street protesters can find that gross discrepancy immoral. The question is why every one of us isn’t protesting with them.

According to polls, most Americans support the 99% movement, even if they’re not taking to the streets. In fact, support for the Occupy Wall Street protests is not only higher than for either political party in Washington but greater than support for the Tea Party. And unlike the Tea Party which was fueled by national conservative donors and institutions, the Occupy Wall Street Movement is spreading organically from Idaho to Indiana. Institutions on the left, including unions, have been relatively late to the game.

Ironically, the original Boston Tea Party activists would likely support Occupy Wall Street more as well. Note that the original Tea Party didn’t protest taxes, merely the idea of taxation without representation -- and they were actually protesting the crown-backed monopoly of the East India Company, the main big business of the day.

Americans today also support taxes. In fact, two-thirds of voters -- including a majority of Republicans -- support increasing taxes on the rich, something the Occupy Wall Street protests implicitly support. That’s not just anarchist lefty kids. Soccer moms and construction workers and, yes, even some bankers want to see our economy work for the 99%, not just the 1%, and are flocking to Occupy protests in droves.
I’ve even met a number of Libertarians and Tea Party conservatives at these protests. So the critics are right, the Occupy Wall Street movement isn’t the Tea Party. Occupy Wall Street is much, much broader.

Maybe it’s hard to see your best interests reflected in a sometimes rag-tag, inarticulate, imperfect group of protesters. But make no mistake about it: While horrendous inequality is not an American tradition, protest is.And if you’re part of the 99% of underpaid or unemployed Americans crushed in the current economy, the Occupy Wall Street protests are your best chance at fixing the broken economy that is breaking your back.
Sally Kohn is the founder and Chief Education Officer of the Movement Vision Lab

LINK: http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2011/10/14/understanding-occupy-wall-street/

[SoNotHer]

"According to polls, most Americans support the 99% movement, even if they’re not taking to the streets. In fact, support for the Occupy Wall Street protests is not only higher than for either political party in Washington but greater than support for the Tea Party. And unlike the Tea Party which was fueled by national conservative donors and institutions, the Occupy Wall Street Movement is spreading organically from Idaho to Indiana..."

Yup. :-)

LINK: http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2011/10/14/understanding-occupy-wall-street/

[Cin]

http://a.yfrog.com/img620/9430/4j3kqs.jpg

[Cin]

If you want to sign the statement here is a link:
http://act.rootsaction.org/p/dia/action/public/?action_KEY=4882

CONTACT: RootsAction
The 1st Amendment is Our Permit

WASHINGTON - October 14 - This is an emergency appeal. Spread it widely.

Our permit to occupy is called “The First Amendment.”

This morning, Occupy Wall Street protesters celebrated when New York authorities beat a last-minute retreat from clearing Liberty Plaza – as hundreds of labor and other activists rushed to defend the square.

But at the same time this morning, dozens of state troopers in riot gear cleared out Occupy Denver protests. In cities across the country, Occupy protesters have faced police violence and arrests. Some occupations have been forcibly removed while others have stood their ground successfully.

The authorities say we don’t have the proper permits to occupy public spaces. Our permit to occupy is The First Amendment.

Quickly sign the following statement which will be delivered to mayors, police chiefs and major media across the country:

Our permit to occupy public squares and parks is in The First Amendment, which affirms “the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.”

When people across the Middle East occupied public squares, leaders in Washington mostly cheered those protesters and warned Middle Eastern governments not to use force to clear them. Those other societies don’t have a First Amendment. Yet Washington affirmed the universal right to assembly and protest.

We do have a First Amendment. The force being used to clear nonviolent protesters from public squares in our country is unacceptable. It must stop.

[ruffryder]

Occupy Wall Street goes global. Arrests in Rome as people fight with the police. hmmm. . I am wondering if people are just using all this Occupy protesting as a way to show their anger on everything they are upset about and cause violence. no bueno.

[citybutch]

cCRnkamitVk

[Corkey]

http://www.businessinsider.com/occupy-wall-street-has-plans-for-a-coordinated-national-gathering-2011-10

Plans for a coordinated national gathering.

[atomiczombie]

cCRnkamitVk

LOVE IT!!!

[Gráinne]

I'm staying apart from this, seeing how it's going to pan out. There are some reports of anti-Semitism sneaking in, i.e. "the Jews control Wall Street" and the old saw of Jews=greedy and cheap. I don't know enough about exactly who is demonstrating or if they represent my beliefs.

http://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews/politics/9334-anti-semitism-in-the-occupy-wall-street-movement

[atomiczombie]

I'm staying apart from this, seeing how it's going to pan out. There are some reports of anti-Semitism sneaking in, i.e. "the Jews control Wall Street" and the old saw of Jews=greedy and cheap. I don't know enough about exactly who is demonstrating or if they represent my beliefs.

http://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews/politics/9334-anti-semitism-in-the-occupy-wall-street-movement

The New American website is a right-wing news source. I looked at some of their other articles and they are all skewed heavily to the right.

[atomiczombie]

http://www.businessinsider.com/occupy-wall-street-has-plans-for-a-coordinated-national-gathering-2011-10

Plans for a coordinated national gathering.

I'm gonna post the list of plans from your link:

1. The Occupy Wall Street movement, through the local general assembly, should elect an executive committee comprised of 11 people or some other odd number of people that is manageable for meetings. Ideally this committee should represent each city in the U.S. that is being occupied.
2. The executive committee will then attend to local issues such as obtaining permits, paying for public sanitation and dealing with the media. More important, the executive committee shall plan and organize the election of the 870 delegates to a National General Assembly between now and July 4, 2012.
3. As stated in the 99% declaration, each of the 435 congressional districts will form an election committee to prepare ballots and invite citizens in those districts to run as delegates to a National General Assembly in Philadelphia beginning on July 4, 2012 and convening until October 2012.
4. Each of the 435 congressional districts will elect one man and one woman to attend the National General Assembly. The vote will be by direct democratic ballot regardless of voter registration status as long as the voter has reached the age of 18 and is a US citizen. This is not a sexist provision. Women are dramatically under-represented in politics even though they comprise more than 50% of the U.S. population.
5. The executive committee will act as a central point to solve problems, raise money to pay for the expenses of the election of the National General Assembly and make sure all 870 delegates are elected prior to the meeting on July 4th.
6. The executive committee would also arrange a venue in Philadelphia to accommodate the delegates attending the National General Assembly where the declaration of values, petition of grievances and platform would be proposed, debated, voted on and approved. The delegates would also elect a chair from their own ranks to run the meetings of the congress and break any tie votes. We will also need the expertise of a gifted parliamentarian to keep the meetings moving smoothly and efficiently.
7. The final declaration, platform and petition of grievances, after being voted upon by the 870 delegates to the National General Assembly would be formally presented by the 870 delegates to all three branches of government and all candidates running for federal public office in November 2012. Thus, the delegates would meet from July 4, 2012 to sometime in early to late October 2012.
8. The delegates to the National General Assembly would then vote on a time period, presently suggested as one year, to give the newly elected government in November an opportunity to redress the petition of grievances. This is our right as a People under the First Amendment.
9. If the government fails to redress the petition of grievances and drastically change the path this country is on, the delegates will demand the resignation and recall of all members of congress, the president and even the Supreme Court and call for new elections by, of and for the PEOPLE with 99 days of the resignation demand.
10. There will NEVER be any call for violence by the delegates even if the government refuses to redress the grievances and new elections are called for by the delegates. Nor will any delegate agree to take any money, job promise, or gifts from corporations, unions or any other private source. Any money donated or raised by the executive committee may only be used for publicizing the vote, the National General Assembly, and for travel expenses and accommodation at the National General Assembly ONLY. All books and records will be published openly online so that everyone may see how much money is raised and how the money is spent each month. There will be no money allowed to "purchase" delegate votes as we have in the current government. No corporate "sponsorship".

[SoNotHer]

I joined a credit union on Friday (yeah!). Looking forward to checking out Chicago protests tomorrow.

Warren Buffet's son has sided with the OWS protestors -

From -
http://www.businessweek.com/news/2011-10-13/buffett-s-son-defends-protestor-push-to-make-things-happen-.html

Oct. 13 (Bloomberg) -- Howard Buffett, the Berkshire Hathaway Inc. director and son of Chairman Warren Buffett, said Wall Street protesters were provoked by abuses from corporations amid a widening disparity between rich and poor.

“I think it takes that to make things happen sometimes,” Howard Buffett, 56, said of the demonstrations in an interview yesterday in Des Moines, Iowa. Over the past 15 years, “we saw large corporations really screw people.”

Occupy Wall Street has drawn out protesters from New York to Seattle and gained empathizers among the top executives at Citigroup Inc. and BlackRock Inc. Warren Buffett, the world’s third-richest person, has said he is concerned about inequity in the U.S. The younger Buffett, a farmer and philanthropist, said obtaining enough food has become more difficult for more people.

“There has never been a larger gap between earnings in this country,” said Howard Buffett, who was in Des Moines to deliver a speech at the World Food Prize conference. “There has never been a time in my lifetime when the government is going to cut an incredible amount of programs that support poor people and feed them.”

Protesters criticized the government for propping up financial firms including Citigroup and Bank of America Corp. in 2008 while individuals struggled with unemployment, depressed wages, foreclosures and reduced retirement savings. Republican lawmakers oppose raising taxes to reduce the U.S. deficit and have pushed for cuts to government programs.

‘Get Some Balance’

“We’ve had protesting in the name of the Tea Party on the right side, and now we’re having protesting from the left side,” BlackRock Chief Executive Officer Laurence D. Fink, head of the world’s biggest asset manager, said today at a conference in New York. “Maybe we’re going to get some balance this way. But I do believe that we should not turn our backs to this protesting.”

Mitt Romney, the former Massachusetts governor and a candidate for the Republican presidential nomination, said protesters are targeting “a scapegoat” and are wrong to divide the country. President Barack Obama, who joined Warren Buffett in a push to raise taxes on the wealthy, is guilty of “class warfare,” Romney has said.

“There has been class warfare going on,” Buffett, 81, said in a Sept. 30 interview with Charlie Rose on PBS. “It’s just that my class is winning. And my class isn’t just winning, I mean we’re killing them.”

Howard Buffett, a Berkshire director since 1993, said hunger is rising in the U.S. as well as in poorer nations. A record 45.3 million Americans received food stamps in July and almost one in six live in poverty, the government said. Buffett is president of the Howard G. Buffett Foundation, which advances agriculture in developing nations.

Buffett’s Wagers

Warren Buffett has backed some of the biggest financial firms while chiding bankers for excesses in risk-taking and compensation. Omaha, Nebraska-based Berkshire invested $700 million in Salomon Inc. in 1987, $5 billion in Goldman Sachs Group Inc. in 2008 and $5 billion in Bank of America this year. Buffett, the father, has compared Wall Street to “a church that’s running raffles on the weekend.”

Wall Street “does a lot of good things and then it has this casino,” Buffett said in October 2010. “One of the problems we still have is we have unbalanced incentives for managers of huge financial institutions.”

Jim Chanos of hedge fund Kynikos Associates said this month he understands the anger directed at financial companies. Bill Gross, who runs the biggest bond fund at Pacific Investment Management Co., said in a Twitter post that wage earners are fighting back after three decades of class warfare in which they were “being shot at.” Citigroup CEO Vikram Pandit said yesterday he’d be happy to talk with protesters.

--With assistance from Beth Jinks in New York. Editors: Dan Reichl, Peter Eichenbaum.

To contact the reporters on this story: Andrew Frye in New York at afrye@bloomberg.net; Alan Bjerga in Des Moines, Iowa, at abjerga@bloomberg.net.

To contact the editors responsible for this story: Steve Stroth at sstroth@bloomberg.net; Dan Kraut at dkraut2@bloomberg.net.

[greeneyedgrrl]

Wondering if anyone has seen the docu "the 1 percent" by jamie johnson?

[SoNotHer]

"To the average low-information voter, these all seem like common sense solutions....course when you dig a little deeper, you realize these policies are only designed to benefit the one percent."


Ps_yOzyrLMM&feature=digest_refresh_sun

[Cin]

Keep your friends close and your enemies closer. I figure it’s important to keep abreast of the tactics being used by the right to undermine the OWS movement.


http://www.alternet.org/story/152745/andrew_breitbart%27s_pathetic_attempt_to_smear_occ upy_wall_st._/

http://www.alternet.org/occupywallst/152747/how_the_right%27s_lame_attack_on_occupy_wall_st._s hows_the_poverty_of_the_conservative_ideology/

http://www.observer.com/2011/10/reuters-and-george-soros-before-and-after/

http://www.alternet.org/occupywallst/152743/12_most_absurd_laws_used_to_stifle_the_occupy_wall _st._movement_around_the_country

http://www.commondreams.org/further/2011/10/14-3

http://dissidentvoice.org/2011/10/occupy-wall-street-separating-fact-from-media/#more-38265

[atomiczombie]

On October 7th Keith Olbermann inverviewed Tavis Smiley and Dr. Cornel West on the Occupy Wall Street movement and it's relationship to the issues of people of color. It's really interesting to see their take on the subject.

DtLrJHS4xik

[Ebon]

On October 7th Keith Olbermann inverviewed Tavis Smiley and Dr. Cornel West on the Occupy Wall Street movement and it's relationship to the issues of people of color. It's really interesting to see their take on the subject.

DtLrJHS4xik

I love Dr. West I want to be him when I grow up.

I was talking to the CVS lady today about the OWS and she was pissed off. She thinks something big will happen soon. She quoted Ghandi...“First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.” But she said he forgot one.
They get scared then they fight you, I think right now they are scared and trying to fight so hopefully we are almost there.

[Ebon]

xSxYcj2o4i4&NR

[Glenn]

Alot of those angry and poor Italians realize that a CEO's world works much like the Mafia. For example, how does a recent college grad become a VP in a major corporation when all the others have worked just as hard to qualify? It's because her/his family or friend of the family knew the Don who started the corporation, and greased the skids for that kid to go sliding. I think MOST people who are in the 1% make it from the inside through CONNECTIONS not qualifications. One kid spent 1.5 mil on a Bugatti after the Corp. gets 20mil. in funding, and the VP or Don looks the other way because her/his father is on the board. Then a few innocent programers have to get fired because of mismanagement which is never admitted. This is how their world works sometimes.
So, anyone on the outside should be pissed, because if your not on the inside, you may get left out in the cold. If anything, I think the poor should be angrier.

Occupy Wall Street goes global. Arrests in Rome as people fight with the police. hmmm. . I am wondering if people are just using all this Occupy protesting as a way to show their anger on everything they are upset about and cause violence. no bueno.

[Cin]

This would actually be funny if it wasn't so fucking sad!

VIDEO: 24 Arrested at Citibank for Attempting to Move Their Money?

As part of Saturday's global day of action against Wall Street and corporate power, in solidarity with the Occupy Wall Street movement, protesters in New York and elsewhere organized groups to go to the major banks to withdraw their money.

The day started off smoothly, with a group of people organized by the Labor Outreach working group from Occupy Wall Street arriving at a Chase bank to withdraw their money. Chase went off without a hitch, but by the time the protesters made it to a Citibank branch there was trouble.

The video below shows people being locked inside a Citi branch, and then forcibly arrested. The charge, reportedly, is "criminal trespass." For trying to withdraw your own money from a bank?

They might have temporarily been halted from removing their money, but one would have to think that as soon as they get out, they'll return even angrier than before. Not a good customer retention strategy, Citibank


TH3kiaJ1-c8&feature=player_embedded

[atomiczombie]

This would actually be funny if it wasn't so fucking sad!

VIDEO: 24 Arrested at Citibank for Attempting to Move Their Money?

As part of Saturday's global day of action against Wall Street and corporate power, in solidarity with the Occupy Wall Street movement, protesters in New York and elsewhere organized groups to go to the major banks to withdraw their money.

The day started off smoothly, with a group of people organized by the Labor Outreach working group from Occupy Wall Street arriving at a Chase bank to withdraw their money. Chase went off without a hitch, but by the time the protesters made it to a Citibank branch there was trouble.

The video below shows people being locked inside a Citi branch, and then forcibly arrested. The charge, reportedly, is "criminal trespass." For trying to withdraw your own money from a bank?

They might have temporarily been halted from removing their money, but one would have to think that as soon as they get out, they'll return even angrier than before. Not a good customer retention strategy, Citibank


TH3kiaJ1-c8&feature=player_embedded

Oh dear lord... that is bullshit. I hope they go to court and that tape is used as evidence.

[Kätzchen]

wow, thanks for posting that video Miss Tick!

I've been sleeping on and off all day today - I've come down sick and I'm doing what I can to rest and be able to function physically and mentally for the up and coming week... but I penned a poem this afternoon and would like to leave it here in this forum thread. Also, I have a few hours tomorrow early in the morning before I report for work, so I'm going downtown to participate in the OWS/Portland and spend time talking with folks who are still holding the line in support of this social movement.

~~~~~~~~~

The House of the 99%

~ LDS © October 16th, 2011

And it came to pass, in the fall of the year of 2011,
People of every color, creed,
Religious affiliation, social class status,
Politically held beliefs, gender and sexual orientation gathered
As a people in mass numbers, seemingly not found on a periodic table.

We gather in public spaces to lift up our voice
In concern for a greater social need,
Asking for redress of inequitable treatment,
We seek to be more than just heard:
We seek remedy for that which has enslaved us since time immemorial.

We, the House of the 99%, occupy every corner of the Earth
Where members of a socio-cultural fabric suffer the choke-chained elitist cocktail of corrupt power: We protest Elitist dogma that squanders communally held resources of
Water, food, and the ability to earn a respectable living;
We protest for the reasonable expectation that we deserve more than 1% by the 1%.

We, the House of the 99%, will occupy and represent whether rain, snow or wind:
Because no wind, no rain, no snow or other catastrophic condition will silence our effort to take the 1% to task and hold that 1% accountable under the same conditions
We have endured for far too long. Our voice is a concentration of rational acuity that is collectively held within the House of the 99%.

We, the House of the 99%, will not take a back seat to the 1%:
Our seat of power resides within the commonwealth of the 99%
And we actively tap that seat of power in the name of all that represents
The House of the 99%: Equitable, active social remedy that supports and provides for a quality of life to sustain 100% of humanity - locally and worldwide.

[Ebon]

Another interview. This guy is awesome.

YlBg8GtoHR0&

[Toughy]

educate the masses and you will create revolution

[greeneyedgrrl]

Wondering if anyone has seen the docu "the 1 percent" by jamie johnson?
I've gotten some ?? from people wondering wth I'm talking about here's a link to the trailer... it's available on netflix... possibly other streaming sites like hulu? The One Percent - YouTube

Sorry bout that... shoulda posted a link in the first place. Anyway... I thought it waas interesting and relevant to the occupy movement.

[atomiczombie]

I've gotten some ?? from people wondering wth I'm talking about here's a link to the trailer... it's available on netflix... possibly other streaming sites like hulu? The One Percent - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JV34oF2EEvA)

Sorry bout that... shoulda posted a link in the first place. Anyway... I thought it waas interesting and relevant to the occupy movement.

Fixed your link.


JV34oF2EEvA

[SoNotHer]

Great spirit and moments at OWS Chicago today. My camera battery died on the first shot, so here are a few vignettes -

Woman my age with a sign that read "Suburban Mom for OWS"

Another sign that read "Stop the Greedy A-holes"

Fox news and Telemundo were videotaping. One guy followed Fox around with a sign that read, "Fox news lies." He'd point at the cameraman and then the sign. People laughed.

Great drum circle - mostly overturned barrels.

Another sign read, "Koch brothers, keep your dirty hands of my democracy."

Another sign read, "For the people - the real people, not the really rich people."

A lot of horns honking in camaraderie. One city bus driver cracked us all up when she danced behind the wheel as she tapped her horn.

Another sign read, "Now that we've bailed out the banksters, is it the people's time?"

Cab and tour bus drivers honked as well as cars. The trash collection trucked honked and the guys on back gave us a "power to the people" fist. And even a limo driver honked several times. Some folks were just ecstatic to show support.

One sign next to me brought me to immediate tears. There were a number of children in the crowd, but this little one was four. Her sign read - "I had an undiagnosed lung disease for two years because I didn't have the right health insurance. I am the 99%."

It was a great scene, and there was someone with food for everyone and another person with a lot of placards and materials for making signs.

This is what democracy looks like. :-) Good night all, SNH

[greeneyedgrrl]

Fixed your link.

thanks! :) it won't let me embed video. :/

[Cin]

The video is available but I can't put it here with my limited skills.

Dr. Cornel West and 14 others Arrested Protesting Corporate Power at U.S. Supreme Court


By Margaret Flowers - Posted on 16 October 2011
October2011.org Movement Denounces the Pollution of
Money from Concentrated Wealth

Washington, DC: The October2011.org Movement that is occupying Freedom Plaza, led an impromptu march of 250 people up Pennsylvania Avenue to the U.S.Supreme Court where Dr. Cornel West climbed on the steps of the Supreme Court and denounced court decisions that have produced money-based elections that empower corporations. Dr. West was holding a sign that said "Poverty is the Greatest Violence of All." He was arrested because holding political signs on the Supreme Court steps is illegal.

Dr. West spoke to more than 500 people on Freedom Plaza where he said that "if Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. were alive today, he would be on Freedom Plaza." West described how the struggle against, poverty, war and injustice continues and confidence that the people will succeed. He applauded the occupation as "an inclusive social revolution for all of us" and a "leaderless-leader-filled movement" where people are "finding their own political voices rather than echoing others."

Kevin Zeese, an organizer of October2011.org said: "It is a fitting tribute to Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. for Dr. West and the others to risk arrest protesting the unfair wealth divide and the Supreme Court empowering money over voters. In the battle for a real, participatory democracy getting money out of politics is a critical step."

October2011.org seeks to end corporate rule and shift power to the people. The occupation of Freedom Plaza began on October 6th, the beginning of the 11th year of the Afghanistan War and a new federal fiscal year that promises austerity for everything except militarism and war. Among those arrested with Dr. West were Tarak Kauff of Veterans for Peace, Ellen Davidson of the Indypendent newspaper, filmmaker Dennis Trainor, Jr. and Maria Allwine an independent political activist.

Video will be available on http://october2011.org later this evening.

UPDATE! Dr Cornel West, rapper Raheem deVaughn and 17 others were arrested today at the Supreme Court, following a march from Freedom Plaza after Dr West's inspiring talk. Still updating status, but at least some will be held overnight. Charge is title 40 demonstration.

[Quintease]

This is disgusting, thank god there were enough viewer complaints for an apology to be issued after the show MAhHPIuTQ5k

[Cin]

56SdbTiXpic&feature=player_detailpage

http://www.eatthestate.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/Corporations-Out.jpg

[Sachita]

This is disgusting, thank god there were enough viewer complaints for an apology to be issued after the show MAhHPIuTQ5k


what an idiot. He honestly should be fired. I am certain his popularity will be effected by this. He quickly tried to change his tune tho. No doubt his teleprompter was going crazy from producers lol

bad bad move O'leary

[Ebon]

what an idiot. He honestly should be fired. I am certain his popularity will be effected by this. He quickly tried to change his tune tho. No doubt his teleprompter was going crazy from producers lol

bad bad move O'leary

Yeah that whole low budget thing about the protests like need corporate sponsors. Sometimes I feel like these people aren't really conservative but they play one on TV.

[Sachita]

US Soldiers Are Waking Up! War is a Racket - YouTube

this is really powerful. I'm not sure how to embed

[Ebon]

US Soldiers Are Waking Up! War is a Racket - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2ViWWsYmAc)

this is really powerful. I'm not sure how to embed

Embedding for you

i2ViWWsYmAc

[Sachita]

Yeah that whole low budget thing about the protests like need corporate sponsors. Sometimes I feel like these people aren't really conservative but they play one on TV.

They attempt this hard nose tactic which may have worked on the public in the past as a no nonsense approach but this is a sensitive agenda and the public is at zero tolerance. The media is going to be under the spotlight now and can seriously be at risk with stupid moves. The CEO's need to start having a pow wow with their minions and make sure they don't add fire to the flame.

Contrary to "some" belief it's not going away. It becomes more organized each day. As stated in several videos, people can't articulate why they are pissed off, they just are and seeking support, confirmation and education to resolve this anger. Protest will spawn boycotts and some large corporations and banks will be effected. Unfortunately it may also cost jobs, which sucks but you can't build a new foundation without ripping out the old.

[Cin]

“I have tried to be a man of letters in love with ideas in order to be a wiser and more loving person, hoping to leave the world just a little better than I found it.”
― Cornel West

UQNH4wphca0&feature=player_embedded

[SoNotHer]

"They know exactly what they want. They want to reverse the corporate coup."

Yes. What was only for itself was never for us all. Great interview and points.


This is disgusting, thank god there were enough viewer complaints for an apology to be issued after the show MAhHPIuTQ5k

[SoNotHer]

Very brave, powerful speaker and video identifying the racism inherent to occupation and the terrorist as himself.

'The average person has nothing to gain from war.'

Yes.


Embedding for you

i2ViWWsYmAc

[Cin]

I keep thinking I need to know how the enemy is thinking, how they are going to come at this movement. But it's annoying to read this stuff and truly sometimes I wonder if it's really necessary cause it just puts me in a bad mood. On that note, here let me share it with you.:|

My comments are in parenthesis. I only made one when I really couldn't resist because truly this shit needs no commentary it speaks for itself.

What the Right is saying about the Occupy Wall Street movement

It’s a mob

The movement is made of spoiled lazy trust fund kids
(odd since it arose organically out of anger over pervasive economic injustice)

The movement lacks the nerve to engage in violence.

They’re mad. They’re getting violent. They don’t have a plan to work within the parameters of a civil society (The Constitution).

They are quite literally throwing a temper tantrum and demanding that “the rich” fork over more money to the government. Despite the predictable failure of Progressivism, they still think “the rich” paying more in taxes is going to lead to them getting a job. It’s almost sad to watch. I’d pity them if they weren’t a bunch of arrogant entitled brats.

The tea party inspired OWS.

Fewer people have participated in all the Occupy movements combined than attended just one tea party rally on the Washington Mall.

In comportment, OWS is to the tea party as Lady Gaga is to Lord Chesterfield.
(This one actually rendered me speechless. So many thoughts flowed in at once that I gave up trying to articulate them. I’m truly gobsmacked.)

This “movement” has no idea what they’re going to do beyond “occupying” public parks across the country. They’re under the impression that simply making a lot of noise will somehow magically force Congress to pass the legislation necessary to make the changes they’re demanding. There is no plan B. What you see now – the drum circles and chants and signs – is all they have. And they wonder why normal people see this “movement” as the temper tantrum it is?

Demands posted in OWS' name include a "guaranteed living wage income regardless of employment"; a $20-an-hour minimum wage (above the $16 entry wage the United Auto Workers just negotiated with GM); ending "the fossil fuel economy"; "open borders" so "anyone can travel anywhere to work and live"; $1 trillion for infrastructure; $1 trillion for "ecological restoration" (e.g., re-establishing "the natural flow of river systems"); "free college education."
(This reminds me of the outcry the Right had regarding The Promise of America, a program teaching kids to read. They claimed the program spewed offensive socialist propaganda by saying horrible things like the People’s basic needs must be met. Needs for housing, education, transportation, and health care need to be overseen by our government system. Labor laws should ensure that people work in safe environments and that they are paid fairly for the work they do. Really controversial stuff apparently.)

It’s going to get ugly. And they’re going to lose.

OWS casts Barack Obama and the Democrats as the problem and will ultimately cost the Democrats the election.

Republicans support the tea party. Democrats don’t support OWS.

Occupy Wall Street is a loosely knit movement with opaque goals.

You cannot compare OWS to the tea party because the tea party attracted substantial financial backing.
(they really don’t get it do they?)

The tea party appeals to middle-class Americans who not only tend to have more money than the angry young people who are at the core of the “Occupy” movement, but who also tend to vote.

Do Democrats really think that casting Barack Obama as the enemy of business is going to win him this election? The real problem, politically speaking, with building a Democratic tea party on the back of Wall Street is that it is unlikely to elect more Democrats
(there is actually a sensical point in there somewhere, but first you have to accept the premise that OWS is the Democratic version of the tea party.)

Political instability caused by protesting is not good for the economy. (ya, cause things have been going so great until now.)

Protesting against business – or even just big business- is not going to lead those companies to hire more people
(Well, this assumes that they were actually hiring Americans in the first place. Most of Wall St companies don’t actually produce anything. They are giant gambling casinos. Manufacturing corporations are already moving their jobs and production overseas and getting big tax breaks to break our backs.)

Does OWS really think that this is how we boost consumer confidence?
(I guess they aren’t kidding when they say they don’t understand what all the protesting is about. The message really isn’t clear to these chowderheads.)


A couple of reference links so it doesn't look like I pulled this crap out of, well you know.

http://www.therightsphere.com/2011/10/the-occupy-wall-street-movement-is-anti-democracy/

http://www.newsmax.com/GeorgeWill/Occupy-Wall-Street-tea/2011/10/14/id/414495

http://www.newsmax.com/Estrich/Wall-Street-Protests-economy/2011/10/14/id/414455

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/10/16/1026468/-What-Occupy-Wall-Street-teaches-us-about-fighting%C2%A0conservatism

[Sachita]

I would like to see people shopping local. Not shopping at walmart, McDonalds and the like. To seek out local stores, farmers, etc. make a strong statement and it would. You can make changes, support this revolution right now by being proactive towards change.

Some might say "It's just not affordable" but if you plan and if this is important enough to you then you'll start finding a way. If we all made these choices- not use credit cards, move money, shop different it does more because it forces change.

while you're at it support our local food systems- bulk purchases at local co-ops and small health food chains. Try and buy organic and stop GMO's. Its all part of a whole. Lets do it.

[Dominique]

Here I am again, talking about the pro's and con's of living in an *old* city neighborhood.

I think it is very important to patronize local businesses. Times are tough for the entire 99%! don't forget that. As we are asking the 1% to pay their share, I think those of us that can pay a little more, should. I give my money to as many businesses in my neighborhood as I can. CHOICE. Yes, it may cost me a dollar more. But it will keep that business here, and keep a local mom or dad working. (maybe that mom or dad doesn't have a car, or there is a reason real specific they are working at Mary's Nut and Bolt store)

I moved into this neighborhood 15 years ago, with promises of big things to come. GENTRIFICATION!! Revitalization. Well.....

To date: The elementary school has closed. Merged with one 6 miles miles away.

The Grocery store closed. Nearest one is 3.5 miles away.

The Post office sub station closed. Nearest one 1.5 miles away. That closed. Main post office 3 miles away.

Bus route cut significantly. No week end service unless you can walk one mile. Week day service routes are ok if you work....every 30 minutes, from 6a until 9a and again from 3p to 6p. two buses late night 11:45p and 12:30a. Holiday service, one every two hours.

Laundry mat closed.

Two banks moved away CREDIT UNIONS (TWO) STAYED!!

Major hospital 4 blocks away.

OK, Mostly I've told you what has left. This is the city people. Who would move into this neighborhood? We are walking distance to the major down town area.....16 blocks or less. Dense in senior citizens.

I patronize my local businesses because these are the things that make a neighborhood. The elderly people/ and the very poor, need these things to be here. They can't rely on mass transportation system to help them get around (mass transportation is free to them, paid for by the Pa. Lottery) what good is it, if it doesn't come into the neighborhood?

Absolutely, you have to force change. The rerouting of the buses had little effect on me. But you can bet I was at every meeting speaking. Basically I told them what I told you. I even tossed in some census numbers. These things effect everybody. Do not buy your stamps at a mac machine because it is convienient. How long has it been since you have used your post office? What will you be saying when your post office closes?

[SmoothButch]

N9HvJhilJzo



3bBb1U-PLJE

[persiphone]

This would actually be funny if it wasn't so fucking sad!

VIDEO: 24 Arrested at Citibank for Attempting to Move Their Money?

As part of Saturday's global day of action against Wall Street and corporate power, in solidarity with the Occupy Wall Street movement, protesters in New York and elsewhere organized groups to go to the major banks to withdraw their money.

The day started off smoothly, with a group of people organized by the Labor Outreach working group from Occupy Wall Street arriving at a Chase bank to withdraw their money. Chase went off without a hitch, but by the time the protesters made it to a Citibank branch there was trouble.

The video below shows people being locked inside a Citi branch, and then forcibly arrested. The charge, reportedly, is "criminal trespass." For trying to withdraw your own money from a bank?

They might have temporarily been halted from removing their money, but one would have to think that as soon as they get out, they'll return even angrier than before. Not a good customer retention strategy, Citibank


TH3kiaJ1-c8&feature=player_embedded


wow. just......WOW. i think this is a peek into what we can expect.

[atomiczombie]

N9HvJhilJzo

This guy was a guest on Countdown with Keith Olbermann on the Current channel tonight.

[Kätzchen]

Tonight, after work, I went down to our OWS campaign site (downtown by the Elk Fountain) and spent time there visiting with many supporters.

I got permission from supporters to share their stories here and for the photos I took: my night's visit started off a with locking myself out of my son's car....



"Solomon" (his street name) helped me unlock my car! He allowed me to take a photo of the sign he made for his tent (seen below). Solomon is Black and he has a rap sheet a mile long for 'breaking and entering.' He's been homeless for over 2 years. I told him tonight that I liked his street name a lot because of Solomon (in the bible) and to not assimilate because he's been labeled a felon due to his circumstances! He has a heart of gold! He has been part of the protest since it began here in Portland and I learned tonight that he was going to Eugene tomorrow to take up a post down there. I gifted him enough money to catch a bus to Eugene and donated the left over proceeds of my small winnings from a lottery ticket I bought last week to OWS tonight.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/68856794@N08/6255753477/


The photo below is of Maggie and David - they just got married tonight at OWS... They have been out of work for some time now and have been at the OWS site since it began. I spoke with them for quite awhile tonight and they plan to stay for as long as they can here in Portland, but they may migrate to Eugene to participate there this weekend.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/68856794@N08/6255753551/

In the photo below is Zach who manned the Information booth tonight! He was instrumental in helping me connect with "Solomon" to unlock my car!

http://www.flickr.com/photos/68856794@N08/6256283962/

Here are posters that various supporters have made for OWS
(by the information booth)

http://www.flickr.com/photos/68856794@N08/6256283426/

(I don't how to embed the photos here in this thread, but if someone knows a better way than just leaving a link to the photos, let me know asap tonight and I can resubmit this post)

[Kätzchen]

Well, for heaven's sake, I just got accidentally logged out from the system and can't amend my post above! *blush*


Many people have submitted written opinion to our local newspaper (The Oregonian) and here's a brief statement of support from a reader who lives in Vancouver (across the river from Portland):


There is a huge movement sweeping across the country as people take up occupation of public squares to express outrage over citizen suffering as a result of greedy, unethical and likely illegal actions on Wall Street.

Disparagers scoff that participants come from a variety of backgrounds and lack focus. Do not let anyone portray cohesive diversity as inarticulate disunity. The diversity of participants is one of the strongest statements of all.

JUDITH DAHLEN
Vancouver
(link to The Oregonian Blog) (http://blog.oregonlive.com/myoregon/2011/10/letters_occupy_movement.html#incart_mce)

Last second edition to this post:

I also met Heidie and Len - an elderly retired couple who spent years as public servants in the State of Oregon: They watched over me and 'Solomon' as he helped me to unlock my car. Just speaking with them and knowing that they support this movement brought me to tears tonight. Many people from all types of sectors in Portland are representing the OWS movement and I couldn't be more proud of the support people have given and continue to give in light of all the other events happening US-wide. ~D

[Kätzchen]

Here I am again, talking about the pro's and con's of living in an *old* city neighborhood.

I think it is very important to patronize local businesses. Times are tough for the entire 99%! don't forget that. As we are asking the 1% to pay their share, I think those of us that can pay a little more, should. I give my money to as many businesses in my neighborhood as I can. CHOICE. Yes, it may cost me a dollar more. But it will keep that business here, and keep a local mom or dad working. (maybe that mom or dad doesn't have a car, or there is a reason real specific they are working at Mary's Nut and Bolt store)

I moved into this neighborhood 15 years ago, with promises of big things to come. GENTRIFICATION!! Revitalization. Well.....

To date: The elementary school has closed. Merged with one 6 miles miles away.

The Grocery store closed. Nearest one is 3.5 miles away.

The Post office sub station closed. Nearest one 1.5 miles away. That closed. Main post office 3 miles away.

Bus route cut significantly. No week end service unless you can walk one mile. Week day service routes are ok if you work....every 30 minutes, from 6a until 9a and again from 3p to 6p. two buses late night 11:45p and 12:30a. Holiday service, one every two hours.

Laundry mat closed.

Two banks moved away CREDIT UNIONS (TWO) STAYED!!

Major hospital 4 blocks away.

OK, Mostly I've told you what has left. This is the city people. Who would move into this neighborhood? We are walking distance to the major down town area.....16 blocks or less. Dense in senior citizens.

I patronize my local businesses because these are the things that make a neighborhood. The elderly people/ and the very poor, need these things to be here. They can't rely on mass transportation system to help them get around (mass transportation is free to them, paid for by the Pa. Lottery) what good is it, if it doesn't come into the neighborhood?

Absolutely, you have to force change. The rerouting of the buses had little effect on me. But you can bet I was at every meeting speaking. Basically I told them what I told you. I even tossed in some census numbers. These things effect everybody. Do not buy your stamps at a mac machine because it is convienient. How long has it been since you have used your post office? What will you be saying when your post office closes?


You mention the post office, bus system and small business imploding in our current economy.

Today, at work, I performed an expensive service and the customer handed me a Hundred Dollar bill and while I was presenting her change and as she was leaving her 'tip,' somehow the customer swiped back the $20 dollar bill... I didn't realize how fast it happened, but she ended up not paying fully for her service. I doubt she will ever come back and make it right. When we counted the till tonight, I handed back the tip she supposedly left me because I won't be a part of cheating - even if it hurt me the most.

Also, the USPS is downsizing it's locations and service centers here. I have a client who has logged 24 years of service who will lose his job by the end of this month. He *was* full time; he's been working a reduced schedule and lost considerable benefits under the federal pay system, et al.

Also, recently, a long tenured bus driver from Tri-Met kicked a young Latino mother and her baby off the bus in the dark (late at night), and other riders left the bus in protest over the treatment the bus driver gave to her. She's a student learning English at a local PCC campus in the Beaverton/Hillsboro area and her professors saw the news story about her and helped her to make a statement to law enforcement (and TriMet investigators) about what happened that night. She didn't feel like she had any choice but to leave the bus with her crying baby - which according to others on the bus, was not crying as badly as the bus driver portrayed the situation. The bus driver is no longer an employee (or maybe still relieved of duty pending the investigation), but racism is alive and well in the suburbs of the Portland Metro area and in Portland as well.

Ye_DGPU-ubw

[Ebon]

US Soldiers Are Waking Up! War is a Racket - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2ViWWsYmAc)

this is really powerful. I'm not sure how to embed

Probably my favorite video so far. I guess the brainwashing didn't work on him.

[Ebon]

I keep thinking I need to know how the enemy is thinking, how they are going to come at this movement. But it's annoying to read this stuff and truly sometimes I wonder if it's really necessary cause it just puts me in a bad mood. On that note, here let me share it with you.:|

My comments are in parenthesis. I only made one when I really couldn't resist because truly this shit needs no commentary it speaks for itself.

What the Right is saying about the Occupy Wall Street movement

It’s a mob

The movement is made of spoiled lazy trust fund kids
(odd since it arose organically out of anger over pervasive economic injustice)

The movement lacks the nerve to engage in violence.

They’re mad. They’re getting violent. They don’t have a plan to work within the parameters of a civil society (The Constitution).

They are quite literally throwing a temper tantrum and demanding that “the rich” fork over more money to the government. Despite the predictable failure of Progressivism, they still think “the rich” paying more in taxes is going to lead to them getting a job. It’s almost sad to watch. I’d pity them if they weren’t a bunch of arrogant entitled brats.

The tea party inspired OWS.

Fewer people have participated in all the Occupy movements combined than attended just one tea party rally on the Washington Mall.

In comportment, OWS is to the tea party as Lady Gaga is to Lord Chesterfield.
(This one actually rendered me speechless. So many thoughts flowed in at once that I gave up trying to articulate them. I’m truly gobsmacked.)

This “movement” has no idea what they’re going to do beyond “occupying” public parks across the country. They’re under the impression that simply making a lot of noise will somehow magically force Congress to pass the legislation necessary to make the changes they’re demanding. There is no plan B. What you see now – the drum circles and chants and signs – is all they have. And they wonder why normal people see this “movement” as the temper tantrum it is?

Demands posted in OWS' name include a "guaranteed living wage income regardless of employment"; a $20-an-hour minimum wage (above the $16 entry wage the United Auto Workers just negotiated with GM); ending "the fossil fuel economy"; "open borders" so "anyone can travel anywhere to work and live"; $1 trillion for infrastructure; $1 trillion for "ecological restoration" (e.g., re-establishing "the natural flow of river systems"); "free college education."
(This reminds me of the outcry the Right had regarding The Promise of America, a program teaching kids to read. They claimed the program spewed offensive socialist propaganda by saying horrible things like the People’s basic needs must be met. Needs for housing, education, transportation, and health care need to be overseen by our government system. Labor laws should ensure that people work in safe environments and that they are paid fairly for the work they do. Really controversial stuff apparently.)

It’s going to get ugly. And they’re going to lose.

OWS casts Barack Obama and the Democrats as the problem and will ultimately cost the Democrats the election.

Republicans support the tea party. Democrats don’t support OWS.

Occupy Wall Street is a loosely knit movement with opaque goals.

You cannot compare OWS to the tea party because the tea party attracted substantial financial backing.
(they really don’t get it do they?)

The tea party appeals to middle-class Americans who not only tend to have more money than the angry young people who are at the core of the “Occupy” movement, but who also tend to vote.

Do Democrats really think that casting Barack Obama as the enemy of business is going to win him this election? The real problem, politically speaking, with building a Democratic tea party on the back of Wall Street is that it is unlikely to elect more Democrats
(there is actually a sensical point in there somewhere, but first you have to accept the premise that OWS is the Democratic version of the tea party.)

Political instability caused by protesting is not good for the economy. (ya, cause things have been going so great until now.)

Protesting against business – or even just big business- is not going to lead those companies to hire more people
(Well, this assumes that they were actually hiring Americans in the first place. Most of Wall St companies don’t actually produce anything. They are giant gambling casinos. Manufacturing corporations are already moving their jobs and production overseas and getting big tax breaks to break our backs.)

Does OWS really think that this is how we boost consumer confidence?
(I guess they aren’t kidding when they say they don’t understand what all the protesting is about. The message really isn’t clear to these chowderheads.)


A couple of reference links so it doesn't look like I pulled this crap out of, well you know.

http://www.therightsphere.com/2011/10/the-occupy-wall-street-movement-is-anti-democracy/

http://www.newsmax.com/GeorgeWill/Occupy-Wall-Street-tea/2011/10/14/id/414495

http://www.newsmax.com/Estrich/Wall-Street-Protests-economy/2011/10/14/id/414455

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/10/16/1026468/-What-Occupy-Wall-Street-teaches-us-about-fighting%C2%A0conservatism

3 words, bat shit crazy.

[T4Texas]

[QUOTE=Yellow band;439284]
Absolutely, you have to force change.

I think those who oppose OWS are waiting for some violent explosion so they can institute martial law and become even more oppressive. No one knows where all this will go. I believe as many have said the best ways to fight are to move your money, support small business, and let your public officials know your displeasure with the way they vote or make policy decisions. What they forget is the general public is what makes this country tick, not just a handful of politicians or a president, or a CEO. They might hold the reigns of power, but its still John Q. public making it all work. WE have the power to decide where our money goes and what we spend it on. These folks are afraid because they know this thing could become a serious grass roots movement that will alter the way they profit. Its always all about the dollar no matter how you look at it.
You do have to force change because otherwise its not going to happen. But you don't need a mob to force change. You do it quietly by using your credit union instead of your bank. By not patronizing companies like WalMart. By telling your elected officials they need to work for their constituents instead of some lobbyist or they can forget re-election. Just occupying public spaces is not going to make it work.
I feel if change is not forthcoming, this country is going to be in a hella mess. We already have a debt that is out of control and will take years to fix. We import so much more than we export and have allowed China to overrun our country with mass poorly made goods. We have outsourced so much that if our international creditors shut us down tomorrow, we'd be screwed. We waste money on wars that will never be won or serve the interests of either us or the countries we fight in. We have a president who appears to be more concerned about his re-election than running the country. How many times in the last few years has wall street almost been on the verge of financial collapse? I think people have no idea what will really happen if this economy bottoms out and I fear we are getting close.
Those in power have not been working for you. They have been working for their own interests and filling their own pockets for years now. We need to do a house cleaning in washington and get some people in office who are truly concerned about the mom and pop business owners, the people on public assistance who want to get off it, the unemployed who get caught up in a cycle of benefits vs taking a job. I feel until we do this house cleaning, the problem is not going to get better.

[SoNotHer]

"It's already historic." I've seen Dr. West in a lot of interviews and talks, but I've never seen him this animated.

I love how this movement is reawakening our humanity, our hope, our fight.

:-)

“I have tried to be a man of letters in love with ideas in order to be a wiser and more loving person, hoping to leave the world just a little better than I found it.”
― Cornel West

UQNH4wphca0&feature=player_embedded

[SoNotHer]

Well, I hate to revert to adolescence (at least for something like this), but the only response I have is a big "W" on my forehead and a gum-snapping "Whatever" rolled off my lips. :-0


I keep thinking I need to know how the enemy is thinking, how they are going to come at this movement. But it's annoying to read this stuff and truly sometimes I wonder if it's really necessary cause it just puts me in a bad mood. On that note, here let me share it with you.:|

My comments are in parenthesis. I only made one when I really couldn't resist because truly this shit needs no commentary it speaks for itself.

What the Right is saying about the Occupy Wall Street movement

It’s a mob

The movement is made of spoiled lazy trust fund kids
(odd since it arose organically out of anger over pervasive economic injustice)

The movement lacks the nerve to engage in violence.

They’re mad. They’re getting violent. They don’t have a plan to work within the parameters of a civil society (The Constitution).

They are quite literally throwing a temper tantrum and demanding that “the rich” fork over more money to the government. Despite the predictable failure of Progressivism, they still think “the rich” paying more in taxes is going to lead to them getting a job. It’s almost sad to watch. I’d pity them if they weren’t a bunch of arrogant entitled brats.

The tea party inspired OWS.

Fewer people have participated in all the Occupy movements combined than attended just one tea party rally on the Washington Mall.

In comportment, OWS is to the tea party as Lady Gaga is to Lord Chesterfield.
(This one actually rendered me speechless. So many thoughts flowed in at once that I gave up trying to articulate them. I’m truly gobsmacked.)

This “movement” has no idea what they’re going to do beyond “occupying” public parks across the country. They’re under the impression that simply making a lot of noise will somehow magically force Congress to pass the legislation necessary to make the changes they’re demanding. There is no plan B. What you see now – the drum circles and chants and signs – is all they have. And they wonder why normal people see this “movement” as the temper tantrum it is?

Demands posted in OWS' name include a "guaranteed living wage income regardless of employment"; a $20-an-hour minimum wage (above the $16 entry wage the United Auto Workers just negotiated with GM); ending "the fossil fuel economy"; "open borders" so "anyone can travel anywhere to work and live"; $1 trillion for infrastructure; $1 trillion for "ecological restoration" (e.g., re-establishing "the natural flow of river systems"); "free college education."
(This reminds me of the outcry the Right had regarding The Promise of America, a program teaching kids to read. They claimed the program spewed offensive socialist propaganda by saying horrible things like the People’s basic needs must be met. Needs for housing, education, transportation, and health care need to be overseen by our government system. Labor laws should ensure that people work in safe environments and that they are paid fairly for the work they do. Really controversial stuff apparently.)

It’s going to get ugly. And they’re going to lose.

OWS casts Barack Obama and the Democrats as the problem and will ultimately cost the Democrats the election.

Republicans support the tea party. Democrats don’t support OWS.

Occupy Wall Street is a loosely knit movement with opaque goals.

You cannot compare OWS to the tea party because the tea party attracted substantial financial backing.
(they really don’t get it do they?)

The tea party appeals to middle-class Americans who not only tend to have more money than the angry young people who are at the core of the “Occupy” movement, but who also tend to vote.

Do Democrats really think that casting Barack Obama as the enemy of business is going to win him this election? The real problem, politically speaking, with building a Democratic tea party on the back of Wall Street is that it is unlikely to elect more Democrats
(there is actually a sensical point in there somewhere, but first you have to accept the premise that OWS is the Democratic version of the tea party.)

Political instability caused by protesting is not good for the economy. (ya, cause things have been going so great until now.)

Protesting against business – or even just big business- is not going to lead those companies to hire more people
(Well, this assumes that they were actually hiring Americans in the first place. Most of Wall St companies don’t actually produce anything. They are giant gambling casinos. Manufacturing corporations are already moving their jobs and production overseas and getting big tax breaks to break our backs.)

Does OWS really think that this is how we boost consumer confidence?
(I guess they aren’t kidding when they say they don’t understand what all the protesting is about. The message really isn’t clear to these chowderheads.)


A couple of reference links so it doesn't look like I pulled this crap out of, well you know.

http://www.therightsphere.com/2011/10/the-occupy-wall-street-movement-is-anti-democracy/

http://www.newsmax.com/GeorgeWill/Occupy-Wall-Street-tea/2011/10/14/id/414495

http://www.newsmax.com/Estrich/Wall-Street-Protests-economy/2011/10/14/id/414455

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/10/16/1026468/-What-Occupy-Wall-Street-teaches-us-about-fighting%C2%A0conservatism

[SoNotHer]

Disparagers scoff that participants come from a variety of backgrounds and lack focus. Do not let anyone portray cohesive diversity as inarticulate disunity. The diversity of participants is one of the strongest statements of all.

At the gym tonight, I watched two local Chicago stations give this air time. The FOX station, not surprisingly, portrayed this a protest of mostly "25 to 35 year olds." Well, I saw what I saw yesterday, and I wasn't the only person approaching a half century.

The newscast went on to offer that "many were unemployed, but some were employed." And the more FOX hopes to manipulate folks into seeing this movement as something specific to young, restless, unemployed folks, the more they continue to lose its own credibility (if that's possible).

[Kätzchen]

Disparagers scoff that participants come from a variety of backgrounds and lack focus. Do not let anyone portray cohesive diversity as inarticulate disunity. The diversity of participants is one of the strongest statements of all.

At the gym tonight, I watched two local Chicago stations give this air time. The FOX station, not surprisingly, portrayed this a protest of mostly "25 to 35 year olds." Well, I saw what I saw yesterday, and I wasn't the only person approaching a half century.

The newscast went on to offer that "many were unemployed, but some were employed." And the more FOX hopes to manipulate folks into seeing this movement as something specific to young, restless, unemployed folks, the more they continue to lose its own credibility (if that's possible).

You know what? I haven't owned a TV in years - for the very reasons you state above -- that media seems to manipulate (or shall I say, construe messages) according to the perspective media feels will garner the most attention or closely align with the viewing audience of said station????

I think social media -whether it occurs here on the Planet, FB, MS or other social networking sites- is probably the largest way people gather information and form opinion according to what source they deem is most rational to them.

Simultaneously, for me and maybe others, I don't always buy what media produces as an 'credible' accounting of news. I think people like me are not representative of the majority. That's not to say that my way of digesting communication is the best way ... but I guess what I am trying to say is that I think what we have going on within the medium of OWS is clearly, most likely, the closest thing we have to people actually participating in active democracy; ensuring that voice from the center, off-center, or even on the perimeter - the outskirts of the Bell Curve (those lovely little statistical 'trouble makers' :)) whose voice is not all that often heard due to the cacaphony of the majority; thus, an indication that we as a people, diverse as we are, are capable of making sure that our voices are heard - one way or the other.

I hope my idea makes sense (above).

I appreciate your comments and share the same sentiment, the urgency, to advocate this social cause (OWS).

~D

[Dominique]

15jCOgZgsSM

[Cin]

Here are counters for how much we spend every second on war and for how much the government has lost in revenue because of the Bush tax cuts for the rich. I'm no economist; I'm not even that good with crunching numbers but I don't think it takes a degree in macroeconomics to get that ending these tax cuts and curtailing our government's penchant for making war would go a long, long way toward closing the deficit. Here are two of the biggest drains on our nation's budget and yet we are continually fed the same bullshit about people on welfare dragging us down. I tried to find a counter for how much money our government spends every second on welfare for its citizens, but there doesn't seem to be a counter for that. Nor is there one for how much the government spends every second on unemployment benefits. We are told demands for a fair wage, $20 an hour, is ridiculous. We are told guaranteeing a living wage for all, regardless of employment, is ridiculous. A single payer healthcare system and free college education...just ridiculous according to most of our nation's public officials.

The numbers flying by on these counters...if you ask me, that is the definition of ridiculous.

http://costoftaxcuts.com/

http://costofwar.com/en/

[Ebon]

Here are counters for how much we spend every second on war and for how much the government has lost in revenue because of the Bush tax cuts for the rich. I'm no economist; I'm not even that good with crunching numbers but I don't think it takes a degree in macroeconomics to get that ending these tax cuts and curtailing our government's penchant for making war would go a long, long way toward closing the deficit. Here are two of the biggest drains on our nation's budget and yet we are continually fed the same bullshit about people on welfare dragging us down. I tried to find a counter for how much money our government spends every second on welfare for its citizens, but there doesn't seem to be a counter for that. Nor is there one for how much the government spends every second on unemployment benefits. We are told demands for a fair wage, $20 an hour, is ridiculous. We are told guaranteeing a living wage for all, regardless of employment, is ridiculous. A single payer healthcare system and free college education...just ridiculous according to most of our nation's public officials.

The numbers flying by on these counters...if you ask me, that is the definition of ridiculous.

http://costoftaxcuts.com/

http://costofwar.com/en/

The saddest part about the cost of war one is that all of that money isn't worth the life lost in fighting these bullshit wars. That includes both sides.

[persiphone]

[QUOTE=Yellow band;439284]
Absolutely, you have to force change.

I think those who oppose OWS are waiting for some violent explosion so they can institute martial law and become even more oppressive. No one knows where all this will go. I believe as many have said the best ways to fight are to move your money, support small business, and let your public officials know your displeasure with the way they vote or make policy decisions. What they forget is the general public is what makes this country tick, not just a handful of politicians or a president, or a CEO. They might hold the reigns of power, but its still John Q. public making it all work. WE have the power to decide where our money goes and what we spend it on. These folks are afraid because they know this thing could become a serious grass roots movement that will alter the way they profit. Its always all about the dollar no matter how you look at it.
You do have to force change because otherwise its not going to happen. But you don't need a mob to force change. You do it quietly by using your credit union instead of your bank. By not patronizing companies like WalMart. By telling your elected officials they need to work for their constituents instead of some lobbyist or they can forget re-election. Just occupying public spaces is not going to make it work.
I feel if change is not forthcoming, this country is going to be in a hella mess. We already have a debt that is out of control and will take years to fix. We import so much more than we export and have allowed China to overrun our country with mass poorly made goods. We have outsourced so much that if our international creditors shut us down tomorrow, we'd be screwed. We waste money on wars that will never be won or serve the interests of either us or the countries we fight in. We have a president who appears to be more concerned about his re-election than running the country. How many times in the last few years has wall street almost been on the verge of financial collapse? I think people have no idea what will really happen if this economy bottoms out and I fear we are getting close.
Those in power have not been working for you. They have been working for their own interests and filling their own pockets for years now. We need to do a house cleaning in washington and get some people in office who are truly concerned about the mom and pop business owners, the people on public assistance who want to get off it, the unemployed who get caught up in a cycle of benefits vs taking a job. I feel until we do this house cleaning, the problem is not going to get better.


yes but it's important that the people come together and stand together if for nothing else than to say we have been wronged. it's important because we are trapped in a place where we have no choices. we have have no choices as consumers because everything on shelves in stores across America ...it's all made in China. we have no food choices (and the fact that our food supply was mentioned in the OWS declaration really struck a chord with me) because our food supply has been quietly becoming monopolized and being replaced, literally, with poisonous chemicals. if for nothing else.....the people need to stand up and say that they are not ignorant to the goings on of the widespread corruption that has become our country and say NO to it. we have no choices in democracy because we've lost so many freedoms in the name of security that we can't even protest in parks that our tax dollars pay for without getting arrested or pepper sprayed. even when the people come together and elect the right guy as president he's so crippled by government infighting that not a lot happens in our favor. we have no choices. deregulation has taken the power of choice out of the people's hands and put that power into the hands of corporations that can pirate you and not be held accountable. we have judges on the supreme court who have been caught lying, evading taxes, and taking money from lobbyists to pass judgement that further the corporate agenda and nothing is being done about it. because we have no choices. the people absolutely need to come together in masses and stand together and fight. freedoms are not free. we had to fight to get them and we have to fight to keep them and we should fight back when we lose them.

on a side note.....it took months of a group of women protesting and some endured jail time and abuse....to get women the right to vote. and that was LESS than one hundred years ago.

[SoNotHer]

The saddest part about the cost of war one is that all of that money isn't worth the life lost in fighting these bullshit wars. That includes both sides.

Ain't that the truth. Here's another Zinn quote that speaks to the moment and speaks to how in the world we got to the place where we need to fight fruitless, expensive, devastating war after war:

"The year of the massacre at Wounded Knee, 1890, it was officially declared by the Bureau of the Census that the internal frontier was closed. The profit system, with its natural tendency for expansion, had already begun to look overseas. The severe depression that began in 1893 strengthened an idea developing within the political and financial elite of the country: that overseas markets for American goods might relieve the problem of underconsumption at home and prevent the economic crises that in the 1890s brought class war.

And would not a foreign adventure deflect some of the rebellious energy that went into strikes and protest movements toward an external enemy? Would it not unite people with government, with the armed forces, instead of against them? This was probably not a conscious plan among most of the elite -- but a natural development from the twin drives of capitalism and nationalism."

http://www.historyisaweapon.com/defcon1/zinnempire12.html

[Cin]

The saddest part about the cost of war one is that all of that money isn't worth the life lost in fighting these bullshit wars. That includes both sides.

Yes. That is the saddest part. And I thought of that when I wrote that post, I thought of a ton of stuff that I felt was just as or even more important than what I posted about. But I wanted to make a particular point and I didn't want to digress. But yes for the record I also believe that the saddest part and actually the HIGHEST cost of war is tallied in human life.

Hopefully someone will also focus a little on the cost of Bush's tax cuts, as well as the cost of war in the context of the failing national budget. But of course human life is more important than money.

Upon further reflection that might not go without saying so thanks for saying it.

[Cin]

And would not a foreign adventure deflect some of the rebellious energy that went into strikes and protest movements toward an external enemy? Would it not unite people with government, with the armed forces, instead of against them?


"A foreign adventure" - what an appalling euphemism for war. But I suppose we must consider poetic license. It's hard out there for a writer.

War is almost always helpful no matter what is causing a division. If you can get the public on board, which, initially, is easily done using a variety of tactics with fear in the forefront then it will be smooth sailing for awhile. It certainly helped unite the country after the election in 2000 when everyone was walking around trying to figure out what the hell had just happened. The war in Iraq, just after 9/11, catapulted Bush’s job approval rating to 90%.

This was probably not a conscious plan among most of the elite -- but a natural development from the twin drives of capitalism and nationalism."

Well perhaps the first ten times it's not a conscious plan just great timing, but eventually...

[theoddz]

Checking in with OccupyLasVegas!!!! :clap::thumbsup:

9zUQbuwpLKo

...and a nod to Occupy Savannah (Georgia), my own hometown!!! :clap::thumbsup::heartbeat:

uKMATGv1IP4

lsRc-Q80kfI

~Theo~ :bouquet:

[Toughy]

Probably my favorite video so far. I guess the brainwashing didn't work on him.

Actually most of the veterans I know (serving from Vietnam to present) don't believe in war.....didn't support Iraq. Most veterans believe the same thing this guy does. It's tough on those on active duty to speak out against police brutality as active duty folks are prevented from participating in protests and/or active campaigning for candidates.

The brainwashing that occurs is usually around freedom and looking out for your brothers and sisters, not killing or brutalizing US citizens.

[SelfMadeMan]

This just in... Goldman Sachs sets aside 10 billion dollars for executive bonuses, yet they post a loss, and lay off thousands of employees.

And they wonder why we occupy...

[Dominique]

And they wonder why we occupy...

It's Mockery, They don't care that we occupy!

eta, do you have a link?

[SelfMadeMan]

It's Mockery, They don't care that we occupy!

eta, do you have a link?

It was on CNN... I was watching the news (when I sould have been picking classes for spring sem.... lol

[Cin]

It's Mockery, They don't care that we occupy!

eta, do you have a link?

Speaking of mockery.

http://www.mediabistro.com/fishbowlla/files/2011/10/bank-of-america.png

Bank of America’s Not-So-Subtle Jab at Occupy Wall Street

Found that pic clicking one of the links in this article about Jesse Jackson saving the medi-tent at Occupy Wall St.
http://www.alternet.org/newsandviews/article/682262/occupy_wall_street%3A_jesse_jackson_helps_save_med i-tent_from_cops%2C_shocking_firsthand_arrest_report %2C_writers_weigh_in_and_more/#paragraph4

[Cin]

It was on CNN... I was watching the news (when I sould have been picking classes for spring sem.... lol

I think this article covers it.

http://alexjonessucks.blogspot.com/2011/09/wall-street-to-layoff-people-for.html

[SmoothButch]

_2YBM9eitTE

[Ebon]

Austin Checking In

96EsNxd7rqc

[SmoothButch]

WASHINGTON -- While an estimated 15,000 to 20,000 Occupy Wall Street protesters flooded into Times Square on Saturday, there was still a regular New York general assembly at 7 p.m. During that meeting, according to sources who contacted The Huffington Post, the Zuccotti Park General Assembly -- though at a reduced presence due to the Times Square march -- approved the formation of a new working group.

This “Demands Working Group” then immediately “established a website and fairly educated/articulated list of solutions.” A separate group out of Zuccotti Park has also been working on a list of possible proposals, but a member of the Education and Empowerment Working Group said he suspects the Demands Working Group’s list will become the national platform.

They’ve posted the list online but they’ve also made this announcement under the radar -- a national convention to be held July 4, 2012:


WE, THE NINETY-NINE PERCENT OF THE PEOPLE of the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, in order to form a more perfect Union, by, for and of the PEOPLE, shall elect and convene a NATIONAL GENERAL ASSEMBLY beginning on July 4, 2012 in the City Of Philadelphia.

They plan to elect delegates by direct vote, one male and one female per each of the 435 Congressional Districts. The office would be open to any United States citizen over the age of 18. The 870 delegates would then compose a petition of grievances that would be non-partisan.

The posted “demands” are only a working list of “suggestions,” however. Number one and two are a ban on private contributions to politicians seeking or holding federal office and instead public financing for campaigns, and a constitutional amendment to reverse the Citizens United decision by the Supreme Court.

The list then goes on to suggest single-payer national health care, immediate passage of the DREAM Act, a jobs plan, a deficit reduction plan and recalling military personnel at all non-essential bases.

The movement would also reinstate the Glass-Steagall Act, increase regulation and increase taxes by way of eliminating corporate tax loopholes.

The idea of coming up with a list of demands has been controversial among protesters.

David Sauvage, who directs videos for the Occupy Wall Street protests and supports the movement, said he viewed demands as being too similar to talking points.

But Daniel Lerner, a physicist and member of the Demands Working Group, argued to Mother Jones that their demands would have wide appeal.

In their list, however, they close with one last warning: if Congress, the President and the Supreme Court do not act on the settled grievances the movement eventually comes up with, its members are prepared to form a third, independent political party to run in every Congressional seat in 2014 and 2016.

[Cin]

The99PercentDeclaration

An OWS Working Group Committed to Elect a Non-Partisan National General Assembly


https://sites.google.com/site/the99percentdeclaration/_/rsrc/1318391103604/home/images.jpeg?height=200&width=200

WHEREAS THE FIRST AMENDMENT TO THE UNITED STATES CONSTITUTION PROVIDES:
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

BE IT RESOLVED THAT:
WE, THE NINETY-NINE PERCENT OF THE PEOPLE of the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, in order to form a more perfect Union, by, for and of the PEOPLE, shall elect and convene a NATIONAL GENERAL ASSEMBLY beginning on July 4, 2012 in the City Of Philadelphia.

I. Election of Delegates:

The People, consisting of all United States citizens who have reached the age of 18, regardless of party affiliation and voter registration status, shall elect Two Delegates, one male and one female, by direct vote, from each of the existing 435 Congressional Districts to represent the People at the NATIONAL GENERAL ASSEMBLY in Philadelphia. Said Assembly shall convene on July 4, 2012 in the city of Philadelphia.

The office of Delegate shall be open to all United States citizens who have reached the age of 18. Election Committees, elected by local General Assemblies from all over the United States, shall coordinate with the 99 Percent Declaration Working Group (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the99declaration/) to organize, coordinate and fund this national election by direct democratic voting. The Election Committees shall operate similarly to the original Committees of Correspondence during the first American Revolution.

II. Meeting of the National General Assembly and Deliberation:

At the NATIONAL GENERAL ASSEMBLY, the 870 Delegates shall set forth, consider and vote upon a PETITION OF GRIEVANCES to be submitted to all members of Congress, The Supreme Court and President and each of the political candidates running in the nationwide Congressional and Presidential election in November 2012. The Delegates of the National General Assembly shall vote upon and implement their own agenda, propagate their own rules and elect or appoint committee members as the Delegates see fit to accomplish their goal of presenting a PETITION OF GRIEVANCES from the 99% of Americans before the 2012 elections.

III. Proposed Petition for the Redress of Grievances:

The PETITION OF GRIEVANCES shall be non-partisan and address the critical issues now confronting the People of the United States. The Delegates shall deliberate and vote upon proposals for the PETITION OF GRIEVANCES in consultation with the 99% similarly to the first two Continental Congresses.

Below is a suggested list of grievances respectfully submitted by the OWS Working Group on the 99% Declaration. The final version of the PETITION OF GRIEVANCES voted upon by the Delegates of the National General Assembly MAY or MAY NOT include the following suggested issues:

1. Implementing an immediate ban on all private contributions of money and gifts, to all politicians in federal office, from Individuals, Corporations, Political Action Committees, Super Political Action Committees, Lobbyists, Unions and all other private sources of money to be replaced by the fair and equal public financing of all federal political campaigns. We categorically REJECT the concept that money is equal to free speech because if that were so, then only the wealthiest would have a voice. These actions must be taken because it has become clear that politicians in the United States cannot regulate themselves and have become the exclusive representatives of corporations, unions and the very wealthy who spend vast sums of money on political campaigns to influence the candidates’ decisions and ensure their reelection year after year.

2. The immediate reversal, even if it requires a Constitutional Amendment, of the outrageous and anti-democratic holding in the "Citizens United" case by the Supreme Court, which equates the payment of money by corporations, wealthy individuals and unions to politicians with free speech. We, the People, demand that institutional bribery and corruption not be deemed protected speech.

3. Prohibiting all federal public officials and their immediate family members, whether elected or appointed, from EVER being employed by any corporation they regulate while in office and/or holding any stock or shares in any corporation they regulate while in office until a full 5 years after their term is completed.

4. A complete lifetime ban on accepting all gifts, services, money, directly or indirectly, to any elected or appointed federal officials or their immediate family members, from any person, corporation, union or other entity that the public official was charged to regulate while in office.

5. A complete reformation of the United States Tax Code to require ALL citizens to pay a fair share of a progressive, graduated income tax by eliminating loopholes, unfair tax breaks, exemptions and deductions, subsidies (e.g. oil, gas and farm) and ending all other methods of evading taxes. The current system of taxation favors the wealthiest Americans, many of whom, pay fewer taxes to the United States Treasury than citizens who earn much less and pay a much higher percentage of income in taxes to the United States Treasury. We, like Warren Buffet, find this income tax disparity to be fundamentally unjust.

6. Medicare for all American citizens or other single-payer healthcare system, adjusted by a means test (i.e. citizens who can afford it may opt-out and pay their own health insurance or opt-in and pay a means tested premium). The Medicaid program, fraught with corruption and fraud, will be eliminated except for the purpose of providing emergency room care to indigent non-citizens who will not be covered by the single-payer program.

7. New comprehensive regulations to give the Environmental Protection Agency expanded powers to shut down corporations, businesses or any entities that intentionally or recklessly damage the environment and/or criminally prosecute individuals who intentionally damage the environment. We also demand the immediate adoption of the most recent international protocols, including the "Washington Declaration" to cap carbon emissions and implement new and existing programs to transition away from fossil fuels to reusable or carbon neutral sources of power.

8. Adoption of an immediate plan to reduce the national debt to a sustainable percentage of GDP by 2020. Reduction of the national debt to be achieved by BOTH a cut in spending to corporations engaged in perpetual war for profit, the "healthcare" industry, the pharmaceutical industry and all other sectors that use the federal budget as their income stream AND a truly progressive income tax code that does not allow the wealthy and corporations to evade taxes through excessive deductions, subsidies and loopholes. We agree that spending cuts are necessary but those cuts must be made to facilitate what is best for the People of the United States of America, not multinational and domestic corporations.

9. Passage of a comprehensive job and job-training act like the American Jobs Act to employ our citizens in jobs that are available with specialized training and by putting People to work now by repairing America's crumbling infrastructure. We also recommend the establishment of an online international job exchange to match employers with skilled workers or employers willing to train workers in 21st century skills.

10. Student loan debt relief. Our young People and students are more than $830 billion in debt from education loans alone. Payment and interest on these debts should be deferred for periods of unemployment and the principal on these loans reduced using a corporate tax surcharge.

11. Immediate passage of the Dream Act and comprehensive immigration and border security reform including offering visas, lawful permanent resident status and citizenship to the world’s brightest People to stay and work in our industries and schools after they obtain their education and training in the United States.

12. Recalling all military personnel at all non-essential bases and refocusing national defense goals to address threats posed by the geopolitics of the 21st century, including terrorism and limiting the large scale deployment of military forces to instances where Congressional approval has been granted to counter the Military Industrial Complex's goal of perpetual war for profit.

13. Mandating new educational goals to train the American public to perform jobs in a 21st Century economy, particularly in the areas of technology and green energy, taking into consideration the redundancy caused by technology and the inexpensive cost of labor in China, India and other countries and paying our teachers a salary that is competitive with the private sector. Paying our teachers a competitive salary commensurate with the salaries of People in the private sector with similar skills.

14. Subject to the elimination of corporate tax loopholes and exploited exemptions and deductions stated above, offering tax incentives to businesses to remain in the United States and hire its citizens rather than outsource jobs and reconstruct the manufacturing capacity of the United States. In conjunction with a new jobs act, reinstitution of the Works Progress Administration and Civilian Conservation Corps and a similar emergency governmental agency tasked with creating new public works projects to provide jobs to the 46 million People living in poverty, the 9.1% unemployed and 10% underemployed.

15. Implementing of immediate legislation to encourage China and our other trading partners to end currency manipulation and reduce the trade deficit.

16. Immediate reenactment of the Glass-Steagall Act and increased regulation of Wall Street and the financial industry by the SEC, FINRA and the other financial regulators, and the commencement of a Justice Department criminal investigations into the Securities and Banking industries practices that led to the collapse of markets, $700 billion bail-out, and financial firm failures in 2007-2008.

17. Adoption of a plan similar to President Clinton’s proposal to end the mortgage crisis and instead of the Federal Reserve continuing to lower interest rates for loans to banks who are refusing to loan to small businesses and consumers, the Federal Reserve shall buy all underwater or foreclosed mortgages and refinance these debts at 1% or less to be managed by the newly established Consumer Financial Protection Bureau (and foreclosure task force described below) because 1% or less is the interest rate the Federal Reserve loans to the banks directly who hoard the cash rather than loan it to the People and small businesses.

18. An immediate one year freeze on all foreclosures to be reviewed by an independent foreclosure task force appointed by Congress and the Executive Branch to (in conjunction with the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau ) determine, on a case by case basis, whether foreclosure proceedings should continue based on the circumstances of each homeowner and propriety of the financial institution's conduct.

19. Subject to the above ban on all private money and gifts in politics, to enact additional campaign finance reform requiring free air time and public campaign finances to all candidates who obtain sufficient petition signatures and/or votes to participate in the primaries and/or electoral process, to shorten the campaign season and to allow voting on weekends and holidays.

20. An immediate withdrawal of all troops from Iraq and Afghanistan and a substantial increase in the amount of funding needed for veteran job placement and the treatment of the physical and emotional injuries sustained by veterans in these wars. Our veterans are committing suicide at an unprecedented rate and we must help now.

BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED that IF the PETITION OF GRIEVANCES approved by the 870 Delegates of the NATIONAL GENERAL ASSEMBLY in consultation with the PEOPLE, is not acted upon by Congress, the President, and Supreme Court, to the satisfaction of the Delegates of the NATIONAL GENERAL ASSEMBLY, said Delegates shall organize a THIRD, COMPLETELY NON-PARTISAN, INDEPENDENT POLITICAL PARTY to run candidates for every available Congressional seat in the mid-term election of 2014 and again in 2016 until all vestiges of the existing corrupt corporatocracy have been removed by the ballot box.

★THE NINETY-NINE PERCENT★

Email us with your ideas for this declaration and petition at: The99Declaration@gmail.com or join this Working Group by visiting http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the99declaration/ and the Working Group Forum at http://the99delegation.forumotion.com/.

[Corkey]

I think that is the point frankly, wiggle room to have more ideas.

[Cin]

I think that is the point frankly, wiggle room to have more ideas.


Well, yes, certainly, more ideas anyway. And anyone is welcome to have them.

As a matter of fact they are asking us for them.

Email us with your ideas for this declaration and petition at: The99Declaration@gmail.com or join this Working Group by visiting http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the99declaration/ and the Working Group Forum at http://the99delegation.forumotion.com/.

[Kätzchen]

Thank you so much, Miss Tick and SmoothButch, for posting these artifacts (documents).

I would love to attend in Philadelphia next summer!
Hopefully I won't have to hitchhike my way to the event. ;)

I think the instrument presented is ambitious also; but I think that with what time constraints and deadlines the members of the WGF were against, I think they did fairly well in putting this instrument together.

At the moment, I can see that maybe no. 7 might need the language tightened a bit or at least review other prior case law tested in the Supreme Court pertaining to how current law is (or has been) applied in the past. The reason I say this is because, do we have access to environmental law with rules and regulations that are useful or are the current rules and regs lacking specificity?

I have a current 2011 edition of Communication Law and I could check to see if there are examples of prior case law tested in the Environmental arena and see if, for myself or anyone else, if what we have existing on the books equals or comes near enough to the language drawn in no. 7.

That's the only flag that comes to my attention at this time in examining the current instrument that has been drawn by the WFG.

Thanks again, Miss Tick and SmoothButch!

[persiphone]

i think farm subsidies elimination should be limited to gmo crops. that's my only wrinkle with what they've got down. otherwise.....WOOT!

[atomiczombie]

Well one of my concerns is 20. I think that the vast majority of our troops need to be home from Iraq and Afghanistan. However, I am afraid of what might happen if we just pull EVERYONE out at the same time. We have made a huge mess there, so to up and leave it without things all put back together sets off alarms for me.

[atomiczombie]

This is an excellent documentary. I am just linking part 1 but you folks can find the other parts on youtube if you follow the links.


MCNKn7JirBU

[SoNotHer]

Great interview and speaker. I have also seen police in riot gear when there was no riot. We had gone down to protest W's second inauguration (and what a dark day that was). Some kids were pulling on one of the fences (there were two high fences between us and the motorcade, as well snippers on roof tops and helicopters overhead). That's all they were doing - pulling a little on a fence.

In came the riot police in double file, and people just fled. Nevertheless, in the fray as the riot police doubled back, some woman decided to take me on about my anti-war stance - interesting timing and context.

This veteran presents some very good challenges and observations on the status quo.

_2YBM9eitTE

[citybutch]

You can get it on Netflix as well... really great documentary...

His father's anguish (and stubbornness) is stunning...

This is an excellent documentary. I am just linking part 1 but you folks can find the other parts on youtube if you follow the links.


MCNKn7JirBU

[Ebon]

i think farm subsidies elimination should be limited to gmo crops. that's my only wrinkle with what they've got down. otherwise.....WOOT!

Absolutely, we need local real food. Not GMO crops and not veggies from 2000 miles away.

[Cin]

http://www.alternet.org/occupywallst/152782/10_craziest_things_said_about_occupy_wall_street_/



ybYYMUR92e8&feature=player_embedded"]10-18-11 3 - Smearing Occupy, with Joshua Holland - Countdown with Keith Olbermann -

[atomiczombie]

http://www.alternet.org/occupywallst/152782/10_craziest_things_said_about_occupy_wall_street_/



ybYYMUR92e8&feature=player_embedded"]10-18-11 3 - Smearing Occupy, with Joshua Holland - Countdown with Keith Olbermann -

Yeah, I knew all this anti-semitic stuff was just right wing propaganda and lies.

[persiphone]

This is an excellent documentary. I am just linking part 1 but you folks can find the other parts on youtube if you follow the links.


MCNKn7JirBU


i was up till the wee hours of the night watching this. then had to pull a 14 hour day right after. i just got home. i blame you :P however excellent flick. loved it :)

i think i was a little taken aback by how uncomfortable people with money are with talking about....money. i think money comes up all the time amongst my circles. we discuss it like we discuss sports, or weekend plans, or any other kind of idle chatter. we wanna know who's got what so we can figure out who's buying coffee on friday. or we bitch about the bills. or how little we get paid (if we even have a job). but these people act like having a conversation is akin to mentioning the name Valdemort in the Harry Potter series. it was almost laughable.

/ramble

[persiphone]

Absolutely, we need local real food. Not GMO crops and not veggies from 2000 miles away.



food. a topic near and dear to my heart. there are many problems with this direction even though i completely agree with you. i truly wish it were that simple. a few tidbits....

~farmers make up 1% or less (oh the irony) of all occupations in America. the number is so small that the word "farmer" isn't even listed on the census anymore.

~corps have addicted the public to A.) hfcs and B.) absurdly low prices for food (which is part of a whole slew of other hidden agendas that could take days to hash out)

~not all places in America CAN be farmed to supply local cities in towns

~importing. need i say more?

~farming to feed cattle, pork, etc. lots of issues surrounding that.

i mean, it goes on and on and on. i won't even get into farming practices themselves cuz that could take another week right there. the main thing is that the food supply is so severely fucked up on so many levels that it could take decades to clean it up. literally. however, i think gmo's are a good start. incidentally, one of the reason we can't export our food supply is because the rest of the world doesn't want our gmo garbage contaminating their food supply. but we never hear about THAT in the news. getting rid of gmos could help us export crops, which, would mean farmers could actually make a living. and that's just the beginning. that topic is so deep it makes my head spin and keeps me up at night.

[atomiczombie]

cJqM2tFOxLQ

[Cin]

Occupy Wall Street's $435,000 In Donations Could Last The Winter
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/10/19/occupy-wall-streets-43500_n_1019352.html

[Ebon]

food. a topic near and dear to my heart. there are many problems with this direction even though i completely agree with you. i truly wish it were that simple. a few tidbits....

~farmers make up 1% or less (oh the irony) of all occupations in America. the number is so small that the word "farmer" isn't even listed on the census anymore.

~corps have addicted the public to A.) hfcs and B.) absurdly low prices for food (which is part of a whole slew of other hidden agendas that could take days to hash out)

~not all places in America CAN be farmed to supply local cities in towns

~importing. need i say more?

~farming to feed cattle, pork, etc. lots of issues surrounding that.

i mean, it goes on and on and on. i won't even get into farming practices themselves cuz that could take another week right there. the main thing is that the food supply is so severely fucked up on so many levels that it could take decades to clean it up. literally. however, i think gmo's are a good start. incidentally, one of the reason we can't export our food supply is because the rest of the world doesn't want our gmo garbage contaminating their food supply. but we never hear about THAT in the news. getting rid of gmos could help us export crops, which, would mean farmers could actually make a living. and that's just the beginning. that topic is so deep it makes my head spin and keeps me up at night.

Yeah I watched a couple of docos about it and read about a bunch of shit that Monsanto did (like trying to put a patent on the pig). :| I didn't even think about places not being able to be farmed on, that's a good point. However, it seems like there is a lot of land outside of cities that can be used. Also there are lots of people doing urban farming for the little neighborhoods that they live in, I know of 3 here in Austin, plus 2 more farmers markets. I know not everyone can afford it but I think that the government should pitch in to help make costs lower for everyone when comes to natural non gmo foods for us to eat.

[Cin]

Naomi Wolf: how I was arrested at Occupy Wall Street

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/cifamerica/2011/oct/19/naomi-wolf-arrest-occupy-wall-street?newsfeed=true

[SoNotHer]

Absolutely, we need local real food. Not GMO crops and not veggies from 2000 miles away.

Yes, we could, should, and will, and I would encourage anyone to start a garden at home (even a pot with a basil plant is a start) and look into permaculture and food forests and "edible landscaping." "Food forests" are already being created in places like Philadelphia, and permaculture is growing in presence and understanding = permacultures which allowed one California family to create enough food for itself on 1/10th an acre and be able to sustain itself financially selling food to upscale restaurants.

Industrial agriculture is highly problematic. 1) It is dependent on the petro-chemical cycle of propping up lifeless, ruined soil with fertilizers (petroleum based) and maintaining wide swaths of monocultures (like corn and soy) with herbcides/insecticides. It is therefore highly dependent on oil and oil prices, and is a large contributor to C02 emissions. 2) It demands high water use and contaminates water. 3) It promotes heavy soil loss. 4) It creates an unnatural representation of nature that is ripe for all of these conditions.

Permaculture works with the prevailing natural system and embraces, supports and promotes biodiversity, guilds of companion plants working together, and, frankly, a rich, beautiful and sustainable paradise. It also promotes social justice, sharing and planetary care.

Here is a good beginning, but there are many other videos available on You Tube:


Bw7mQZHfFVE

4z-fRQayrUk

8gPvsl9ni-4&feature=related

[Sachita]

You can get it on Netflix as well... really great documentary...

His father's anguish (and stubbornness) is stunning...

he's never had to want for nothing. Also I see a thread of pure ignorance and selfishness. I'm sure its also conditioning.

I don't have a problem with wealthy families. I have a problem with how the government allows them to get away with shit. I have a problem with corruption. If you have that much money rather then funnel it away into bogus tax sheltering charities, allow it to be taxed and help offset some of our surmounting debit or provide tax relief for the 99% that are not quite so fortunate.

[citybutch]

Watching the entire documentary you see that his father was once a proud photographer/filmmaker who wanted to do work with exposing poverty on the planet (my memory may not be serving me because I saw this a long time ago). He was actually quite radical and wanted to make a difference. When one of the corporations he was exposing was his own families corporation he was slammed down... HARD. I see a man who is living in fear... shame... someone whose spirit was beaten. His entire attitude in my humble opinion showed deep anguish... Yes, as an adult he has choices... but it almost seemed as though he reacted with a kind of post traumatic reaction to events.

That was my only point....

he's never had to want for nothing. Also I see a thread of pure ignorance and selfishness. I'm sure its also conditioning.

I don't have a problem with wealthy families. I have a problem with how the government allows them to get away with shit. I have a problem with corruption. If you have that much money rather then funnel it away into bogus tax sheltering charities, allow it to be taxed and help offset some of our surmounting debit or provide tax relief for the 99% that are not quite so fortunate.

[theoddz]

Since I live in Las Vegas, I can totally understand where this guy is coming from, on "ringers", "muscle" and the Three Card Monty game. He's right on the mark with what will probably become of the OWS movement. :winky:

i9zkQcLi4Yo#!

~Theo~ :bouquet:

[SoNotHer]

Great riff and analogy on this. Thank you for posting :-)


Since I live in Las Vegas, I can totally understand where this guy is coming from, on "ringers", "muscle" and the Three Card Monty game. He's right on the mark with what will probably become of the OWS movement. :winky:

i9zkQcLi4Yo#!

~Theo~ :bouquet:

[persiphone]

Yeah I watched a couple of docos about it and read about a bunch of shit that Monsanto did (like trying to put a patent on the pig). :| I didn't even think about places not being able to be farmed on, that's a good point. However, it seems like there is a lot of land outside of cities that can be used. Also there are lots of people doing urban farming for the little neighborhoods that they live in, I know of 3 here in Austin, plus 2 more farmers markets. I know not everyone can afford it but I think that the government should pitch in to help make costs lower for everyone when comes to natural non gmo foods for us to eat.


i absolutely agree. but the subsidies end up propping up huge gmo monocultures while the average joe farmer gets squeezed out by the gmo creators. and farming ain't easy. it's hard, back breaking work, unless you are mechanized and even then it's not all that easy. to grow food for a populace with out harming the soils and the environment, one needs to have a deep understanding of soils and how they work, the microbiological life it needs to be sustainable, the nutrients/minerals and all of THEIR cycles not to mention have impeccable timing of seasonal pests and diseases to just maintain whatever it is your growing to get it to harvest. i mean, it's not glamorous lol! and it's not profitable, either. farmers are not making millions. in fact, a lot of the average joe farmers left are deeply in debt just to keep the show going. and THEN.....you have to convince that same populace that eating seasonally is the way to go. do you eat only what's in season? i never have, but i've been working on it for the past couple of years. it's really hard! cuz dangit i want a strawberry in january.

in the utopia in my head everyone cooperates and farms pop all over place and farms in places that can grow strawberries in january in America do and send them to places in America where they can't. until then, people will continue to buy strawberries from some foreign country that were picked green and gassed on the way here to make them red enough for grocery stores across America.

[AtLast]

Yes, we could, should, and will, and I would encourage anyone to start a garden at home (even a pot with a basil plant is a start) and look into permaculture and food forests and "edible landscaping." "Food forests" are already being created in places like Philadelphia, and permaculture is growing in presence and understanding = permacultures which allowed one California family to create enough food for itself on 1/10th an acre and be able to sustain itself financially selling food to upscale restaurants.

Industrial agriculture is highly problematic. 1) It is dependent on the petro-chemical cycle of propping up lifeless, ruined soil with fertilizers (petroleum based) and maintaining wide swaths of monocultures (like corn and soy) with herbcides/insecticides. It is therefore highly dependent on oil and oil prices, and is a large contributor to C02 emissions. 2) It demands high water use and contaminates water. 3) It promotes heavy soil loss. 4) It creates an unnatural representation of nature that is ripe for all of these conditions.

Permaculture works with the prevailing natural system and embraces, supports and promotes biodiversity, guilds of companion plants working together, and, frankly, a rich, beautiful and sustainable paradise. It also promotes social justice, sharing and planetary care.

Here is a good beginning, but there are many other videos available on You Tube:


Bw7mQZHfFVE

4z-fRQayrUk

8gPvsl9ni-4&feature=related

Container gardening at home is a really good way to have some fresh, organically grown produce and keep costs minimal. I am amazed at the amount of veggies I have been able to kick out with this. And you can plant winter veggies in containers, too. No way could I do in ground gardening with my arthritis (unless I had raised beds). I do live where there is a 2 x/week local farmers market closeby and that helps a lot.

I do understand that for some, their work hours and commute time might make it very difficult to do this- or any gardening. Some people just don't like gardening. But buying in season is helpful and buying from stores that do bring in local produce. Very small changes can make a big difference.

[Sachita]

i absolutely agree. but the subsidies end up propping up huge gmo monocultures while the average joe farmer gets squeezed out by the gmo creators. and farming ain't easy. it's hard, back breaking work, unless you are mechanized and even then it's not all that easy. to grow food for a populace with out harming the soils and the environment, one needs to have a deep understanding of soils and how they work, the microbiological life it needs to be sustainable, the nutrients/minerals and all of THEIR cycles not to mention have impeccable timing of seasonal pests and diseases to just maintain whatever it is your growing to get it to harvest. i mean, it's not glamorous lol! and it's not profitable, either. farmers are not making millions. in fact, a lot of the average joe farmers left are deeply in debt just to keep the show going. and THEN.....you have to convince that same populace that eating seasonally is the way to go. do you eat only what's in season? i never have, but i've been working on it for the past couple of years. it's really hard! cuz dangit i want a strawberry in january.

in the utopia in my head everyone cooperates and farms pop all over place and farms in places that can grow strawberries in january in America do and send them to places in America where they can't. until then, people will continue to buy strawberries from some foreign country that were picked green and gassed on the way here to make them red enough for grocery stores across America.

Since agriculture is my passion I stay tuned to the issues. Since this thread is not specifically about that I will not go into all the details. But I will say that there is a LARGE % of the population who just care not to think about it. If they did we wouldn't supporting the food markets we do. The reality is they will turn a blind eye and people will feed their kids and pets processed foods without even reading the label or researching to see the effects of certain ingredients and GMO's.

But these same people rely on the government and agencies such as the FDA to allow it into our food systems. Are you kidding me? We have a huge fucking financial crisis due to political corruption. Do you think these same people give a rats ass if the FDA is honest or not? Do most people know that in a HUGE part of processed food is after growth of the weed killer Round-up? Corn, soy beans, canola, wheat, just to name a food. All genetically modified seed to to control weeds. its growing in the freaking plant and YOU are consuming it. If they are giving it to cattle as feed its in the beef and in milk.

But the good news is that there has a been a HUGE increase in farmers markets the past ten years. That people are becoming more conscious and wise about choices, HOWEVER we need to act fast. Do something about it. Stop dreaming and giving lip service. (this is people in general) Stop shopping at Walmart or at least not so much. Find your local farms ( www.localharvest.org ) go visit, talk, help, support. Support organics. Yes it cost more because of supply and demand. Shop wisely and eat less if you have to. Stop making excuses. Get together with a few friends one day a week and plants an organic garden together. If you can raise some hens. Find local food coalitions in your area and see how you can help and support. Shop local and stop spending money on unnecessary things. Trade stuff, barter, shop at good will. Be proactive and conscious.

Talk, talk talk, go to an occupy with a group of friends.

We can change the world if we all get on board and stop the fucking insanity.

[Sachita]

Yeah I watched a couple of docos about it and read about a bunch of shit that Monsanto did (like trying to put a patent on the pig). :| I didn't even think about places not being able to be farmed on, that's a good point. However, it seems like there is a lot of land outside of cities that can be used. Also there are lots of people doing urban farming for the little neighborhoods that they live in, I know of 3 here in Austin, plus 2 more farmers markets. I know not everyone can afford it but I think that the government should pitch in to help make costs lower for everyone when comes to natural non gmo foods for us to eat.


There's lots of great documentaries that have facts


Deconstructing Supper - On a personal quest to understand our food choices, acclaimed chef John Bishop travels around the world exploring where genetically modified crops come from, whether they may be harmful and what alternative options currently exist. Through interviews with farmers, scientists and activists, this thought-provoking documentary offers substantial insight into the nuts and bolts of global food production.

The Future of Food - Before compiling your next grocery list, you might want to watch filmmaker Deborah Koons Garcia's eye-opening documentary, which sheds light on a shadowy relationship between agriculture, big business and government. By examining the effects of biotechnology on the nation's smallest farmers, the film reveals the unappetizing truth about genetically modified foods: You could unknowingly be serving them for dinner.

Food Matters (one of my favs)- With a staggering number of Americans suffering from obesity and other food-related maladies, this film takes a timely and hard-hitting look at how the food we eat is helping or hurting our health, and what we can do to live (and eat) better. Nutritionists, naturopaths, scientists, doctors, medical journalists and more weigh in on everything from using food as medicine to the value of organic food and the safety of the food we consume.

Ingredients - Narrated by actress Bebe Neuwirth, this engaging documentary weighs the shortcomings of America's industrialized food system against a rising local-growth movement, whose proponents are shrinking the gap between farmland and dinner table. With chefs Alice Waters and Greg Higgins as guiding lights, growers, restaurateurs and consumers around the country, from Oregon to Harlem, New York, discuss their methods for bringing food production back home.

All of the above films are available on Netflix instant play. They are inspiring and they will also piss you off when you learn what big corporations and pharmaceutical companies are allowed to get away with. As you continue your research, that is any of this really matters to you, you'll see the hand our government has and how elections are really won or supported.

If you dare, watch them all and let's get a thread going on what we can do to help put an end to it. You wanna grow some food? I'll tell you how. In fact we have a thread on sustainability and growing. I can't think of the name right now but if you're interested hit me up.

[atomiczombie]

Obama Tops GOP Candidates in Wall Street Donations

New figures show President Obama continues to pull in huge donations from the financial sector, with more money from Wall Street this year than all other Republican presidential candidates combined. According to the Washington Post, Obama has raised a total of $15.6 million from banks and other financial firms, with nearly $12 million of that going to the Democratic National Committee. Republican frontrunner Mitt Romney has raised less than half that much from Wall Street, around $7.5 million. A top banking executive and Obama fundraiser told the Washington Post that reports of Wall Street antagonism toward Obama "are exaggerated and overblown ... [but] it probably helps from a political perspective if he’s not seen as a Wall Street guy."

Link:

http://www.democracynow.org/2011/10/20/headlines#4

[persiphone]

Since agriculture is my passion I stay tuned to the issues. Since this thread is not specifically about that I will not go into all the details. But I will say that there is a LARGE % of the population who just care not to think about it. If they did we wouldn't supporting the food markets we do. The reality is they will turn a blind eye and people will feed their kids and pets processed foods without even reading the label or researching to see the effects of certain ingredients and GMO's.

But these same people rely on the government and agencies such as the FDA to allow it into our food systems. Are you kidding me? We have a huge fucking financial crisis due to political corruption. Do you think these same people give a rats ass if the FDA is honest or not? Do most people know that in a HUGE part of processed food is after growth of the weed killer Round-up? Corn, soy beans, canola, wheat, just to name a food. All genetically modified seed to to control weeds. its growing in the freaking plant and YOU are consuming it. If they are giving it to cattle as feed its in the beef and in milk.

But the good news is that there has a been a HUGE increase in farmers markets the past ten years. That people are becoming more conscious and wise about choices, HOWEVER we need to act fast. Do something about it. Stop dreaming and giving lip service. (this is people in general) Stop shopping at Walmart or at least not so much. Find your local farms ( www.localharvest.org ) go visit, talk, help, support. Support organics. Yes it cost more because of supply and demand. Shop wisely and eat less if you have to. Stop making excuses. Get together with a few friends one day a week and plants an organic garden together. If you can raise some hens. Find local food coalitions in your area and see how you can help and support. Shop local and stop spending money on unnecessary things. Trade stuff, barter, shop at good will. Be proactive and conscious.

Talk, talk talk, go to an occupy with a group of friends.

We can change the world if we all get on board and stop the fucking insanity.

i actually work in agriculture and am studying some ag in college. i have worked next to migrant workers doing what they do and i've worked with farm owners doing what they do and i've done some consulting (just a little) on some specific farming practices. everything involving food is a passion of mine as well. i'm very passionate about the politics, ethics, practices, cooking, eating, etc of food. so i'm very aware of everything you're mentioning and then some lol!

the complexities i've pointed out involving the hurdles that live within our food supply (and all that that entails) are just a few things that most people simply aren't aware of. and that's ok, it just takes these kinds of conversations to make that happpen. kids aren't taught about food in school anymore. or anything involving ag for that matter. ag programs in colleges teach mechanized and chemical infused farming practices and how to fill out subsidy forms (i'm not kidding). it's amazing to me that my ag professors don't know what allelopathy is. but then they can't understand why grape vines are stunted near certain trees. and they really just don't know. we have become largely disconnected from our food on more than just the consumer level.

wheat is in a big battle right now because the gmo corps want to introduce gmo wheat and the wheat farmers don't want it because then they won't be able to export. i haven't updated myself in a few months on what the status of that fight is because i'm pretty swamped.

generally, but not exclusively, gmo's are a "Round-up ready" seed. so when the farmers spray Round-Up in their fields, the crop is resistant to the spray so that only the weeds die. They do that by taking an e.coli bacteria as a vector and transferring whatever DNA they want (in this case a gene coding that is resistant to Round -Up) into the e.coli and then the e.coli carries the DNA into the plant cells in the lab. additionally, there is a marker gene present in gmo's that are antibiotic resistant. the problem here is that DNA can be taken up by cells in more than one way. so, to have antibiotic resistant DNA litter floating about your body is bad bad bad.

but back to your point about blind eyes and such. i think that's valid. the first thing i hear out of a person's mouth when i say something like....buy organic....is that they can't afford it. and i believe them. i can't really afford it either. so i feel their pain. i recently went through a crisis where we lost everything and i decided when replacing everything in my kitchen to go gmo free and buy as much organic as i can. it was time to put up or shut up, i told myself. after eating cleaner for some time now, i have discovered that cleaner food fills me up faster and for longer. and the whole time i thought i was allergic to bread....i think i'm actually allergic to gmos. so while my grocery bill is a little higher and my grocery bag is a little lighter, it takes LESS clean food for me to feel nourished. and that was a huge thing for me. eating is such an intimate thing for so many people.

i went off on a tangent again. the point i wanted to make is.....the chips on the shelf today are not the chips i grew up on as a kid. the big mac of today is not the same big mac from 30 years ago. our food changed and we didn't. and now our food has made a lot of us sick and dependent on very expensive meds. so of course, when you live on minimum wage and you have diabetes....where are you gonna shop? not Whole Foods that's fo sho. i think it's less of a blind eye and more of an economic issue for lots of folks. not to mention....there are tons of places in America that don't have access to clean foods at all. we are lacking in choices. and it comes back full circle.

[Ebon]

There's lots of great documentaries that have facts


Deconstructing Supper - On a personal quest to understand our food choices, acclaimed chef John Bishop travels around the world exploring where genetically modified crops come from, whether they may be harmful and what alternative options currently exist. Through interviews with farmers, scientists and activists, this thought-provoking documentary offers substantial insight into the nuts and bolts of global food production.

The Future of Food - Before compiling your next grocery list, you might want to watch filmmaker Deborah Koons Garcia's eye-opening documentary, which sheds light on a shadowy relationship between agriculture, big business and government. By examining the effects of biotechnology on the nation's smallest farmers, the film reveals the unappetizing truth about genetically modified foods: You could unknowingly be serving them for dinner.

Food Matters (one of my favs)- With a staggering number of Americans suffering from obesity and other food-related maladies, this film takes a timely and hard-hitting look at how the food we eat is helping or hurting our health, and what we can do to live (and eat) better. Nutritionists, naturopaths, scientists, doctors, medical journalists and more weigh in on everything from using food as medicine to the value of organic food and the safety of the food we consume.

Ingredients - Narrated by actress Bebe Neuwirth, this engaging documentary weighs the shortcomings of America's industrialized food system against a rising local-growth movement, whose proponents are shrinking the gap between farmland and dinner table. With chefs Alice Waters and Greg Higgins as guiding lights, growers, restaurateurs and consumers around the country, from Oregon to Harlem, New York, discuss their methods for bringing food production back home.

All of the above films are available on Netflix instant play. They are inspiring and they will also piss you off when you learn what big corporations and pharmaceutical companies are allowed to get away with. As you continue your research, that is any of this really matters to you, you'll see the hand our government has and how elections are really won or supported.

If you dare, watch them all and let's get a thread going on what we can do to help put an end to it. You wanna grow some food? I'll tell you how. In fact we have a thread on sustainability and growing. I can't think of the name right now but if you're interested hit me up.

The only one of those I haven't seen is deconstructing supper. I'll check it out tomorrow if it's on Netflix along with that 1% doco.

[AtLast]

Obama Tops GOP Candidates in Wall Street Donations

New figures show President Obama continues to pull in huge donations from the financial sector, with more money from Wall Street this year than all other Republican presidential candidates combined. According to the Washington Post, Obama has raised a total of $15.6 million from banks and other financial firms, with nearly $12 million of that going to the Democratic National Committee. Republican frontrunner Mitt Romney has raised less than half that much from Wall Street, around $7.5 million. A top banking executive and Obama fundraiser told the Washington Post that reports of Wall Street antagonism toward Obama "are exaggerated and overblown ... [but] it probably helps from a political perspective if he’s not seen as a Wall Street guy."

Link:

http://www.democracynow.org/2011/10/20/headlines#4

From the time he wanted Tim Guitner (sp?)as Sec of Treasury, I knew he had a close relationship with Wall Street. Never have liked that "wiz kid." No way can I see him having one ounce of real understanding of the average wage-earner in the US. Yet, I also get that any candidate for president will have some strings with Wall Street.

Shit.... just had a pretty big earthquake jolt here in SF Bay Area! Whoa!!! Going to listen to news and see what is going on. Net not off, so I think I am safe. But WOW- big bang and shake. Today is the 20 yr anniversary of the Oakland Hills fires. And close to San Bruno gas pipe fires. Shit. Weird.

[atomiczombie]

4Adr_Pck6VI

[Toughy]

so............lets talk about the great goddess Hilary who would have been different......

So go do some research on Canadian pipelines and some nasty ass oil containing sludge found in Alberta. The enviormental impact statement given by TransCanadia......something about a top Clinton aid involved in pipelines and disaster with leaks.....

folks

occupy wall street
look for the truth

Hilary is no different than Obama

[SoNotHer]

Like spoken word on OWS. There's some real highs in this, particularly when it gets rolling about 'America getting extracted while we focus on celebrity nonsense.' Spot on.

4Adr_Pck6VI

[Kätzchen]

Obama Tops GOP Candidates in Wall Street Donations

New figures show President Obama continues to pull in huge donations from the financial sector, with more money from Wall Street this year than all other Republican presidential candidates combined. According to the Washington Post, Obama has raised a total of $15.6 million from banks and other financial firms, with nearly $12 million of that going to the Democratic National Committee. Republican frontrunner Mitt Romney has raised less than half that much from Wall Street, around $7.5 million. A top banking executive and Obama fundraiser told the Washington Post that reports of Wall Street antagonism toward Obama "are exaggerated and overblown ... [but] it probably helps from a political perspective if he’s not seen as a Wall Street guy."

Link:

http://www.democracynow.org/2011/10/20/headlines#4


Thank you for this, AZ. Seriously.
But I gotta sit tight on my feelings about what I have to say because I want to make sure that I'm not filtering through some fucked up anger I already have about O'Bama (checking my bias for hidden prejudices, etc.)(whole other thread, maybe RZ it).

*Thank you*

~D

[atomiczombie]

Russell Brand's blog post today:

October 20th, 2011

Among the many triumphs of the Occupy Wall Street movement (a campaign so alive with zeitgeist that I feel here obligated to reference its proper title – #OccupyWallStreet) is the remarkable sense of occasion that accompanies the phenomenon. Since it began a month ago I’ve been subliminally transfixed. Then, like a baffled alien abductee, I unwittingly found myself first transplanted from Los Angeles to Manhattan then suddenly somnambu-jogging through Tribeca to Zuccotti Park, lured by a peculiar certainty that I simply had to be there.

Leaving my apartment with an objective no grander than to go for a run I somehow landed amidst Zuccotti’s tarpaulin sprawl in unforgivable leggings and a headband that would have had Alice reaching for a shard of cracked looking-glass.

There can be few cultures that would unthinkingly welcome into their fold a man dressed as I was in the macabre attire of a spandex scarecrow but the occupants of this pop up civilization offered me first food, then shelter and then, incredibly, hope that we can change the world.

Of course, this may seem like cock-eyed optimism given that physically the site resembles a Kenyan slum, all slung together wigwams, a Toy-Town medi-centre and a cardboard-igloo library, but whilst the visible structures
may be flimsy they are held together by an invisible scaffold of ideals founded upon the thing the establishment fears most; the will of the people.
During my first accidental visit I chatted with an enthralling bunch, notably a beautiful group of teenagers, righteous and idealistic and interestingly mellow. I suppose they differ from the London teens that last month took a starkly contrasting course of action from the same impetus of frustration, in that while they may be similarly disenfranchised, they believe in the possibility of change.

Brianna who is seventeen, pagan-pretty and dusky, is attending college by day and occupying Wall Street by night like some heart wrenching cross between Pocahontas and Batman, said that young people are entitled to an education without being bound to a lifetime of debt. Whilst “Messiah” (there’s a lot of those names flying about, go with it; it’s a small price to pay for Utopia) literally danced into the conversation and self consciously, but touchingly, divided up and shared a stick of gum in a “Sermon on the Mount” brought to us by Juicy Fruit. You might think, that given her name, that was the least she could do, but we’re talking about a sixteen-year-old girl here. If Fox News and the Daily Mail are to be believed I’m damn lucky she didn’t shiv me in the guts and film it on her phone.

Here in Zuccotti Square these young people clearly felt safe, purposeful, included and behaved with charm, compassion and respect. Naturally I was impressed but more agitated than ever by my jogging outfit. Really, it’s terrible, I mean if we’re going to bring about systemic and meaningful social change, I want to be dressed for it.

The next day I returned to learn more, in a very fetching scarf with my friend Daniel Pinchbeck the brilliant writer, radical and ludicrously, yet truthfully titled “psychedelic Shaman”.

One of the movement’s significant principles is that there are no appointed leaders. That said, there are more experienced and pragmatic inhabitants to whom Daniel and I chatted. We were given a tour of the site and in spite of the lashing rain and gales, which I, of course regarded as the winds of change and cleansing rain, all we encountered were bonhomous and welcoming. Much more than I’d anticipated. Let’s face facts, one of the campaign’s few edicts is to provide the unrepresented 99% with a voice, had I, when I fitted into that demographic, chanced upon a touring celebrity I would have used that voice to tell him to fuck off, no matter how nice his scarf was.

Perhaps it is this ambience of inclusion, of acceptance and indeed of love that has brought #OccupyWallStreet such success. There is a remarkable absence of anger and resentment which is why the movement resonates so
deeply. Is this movement’s implicit goal to reengage our humanity? To reach beyond the political, the national and other illusory, temporary concepts and into our true, spiritual nature?

Justin, our volunteer tour guide was smiling and patient, especially with my incessant questioning about where people go to the toilet; mostly in McDonald’s it transpires – I’m glad Ronald and the Hamburglar at last have a chance to atone for their mucky past and eery jocundity. The sense of cohesion and civic duty in the square, which many call Liberty Square, its former title, was something I found appealing. In my country, England, and across the world there is amongst older people an irritation at the breakdown of traditional values, a grudge against apathetic and uncaring youth, atomized and X-box agog, indifferent to their culture, abstracted from their land.

Here young men who would typically be drenched in spittle-flecked “Get a job” rage diligently join committees for sanitation, cooking and on site security. A voluntary conscription to the cause of change. A nation founded on ideals of harmony and responsibility, on representing the whole, built here in a privately owned square. The ownership of the Square, explained David, a seasoned and visionary activist, is important as the New York Real Estate Group who represent the interests of the powerful institutions to whom this movement is a threat, are now desperate to implement legislative change that will ensure the Occupation will be curtailed and not repeated. Clearly this is no simple undertaking as demonstrated when the suspicious attempts to vacate the Square for cleaning were abandoned. It is unlike Mayor Bloomberg to back down but David outlined this movement is unlike anything this country has ever seen.

Other protestors took the time to educate me on the matters that had brought them to the square. One purple haired, perfect skinned occupant told me beneath the billow and crack of the turbulent tarpaulin that in 2009 24% of American families with children were at some point too poor to buy food. Hunger. It doesn’t get more basic than that. Another lad, black and bright eyed with spectacles that I suspect-acle didn’t have glass in them, informed me that 50 million Americans do not have health care. Perhaps that’s why his glasses weren’t finished.

Of course these problems are not unique to America, they are the symptoms of a global epidemic, said a lady who was there speaking on behalf of the Mexican Zapatista movement using the already iconic “Human Mic” system in which staccato sentences are truncated and repeated by the crowd. A charming and inspiring instant cultural artifact.

A Scotsman there told me that he considered this to be America’s class awakening, that the 99% are a contemporary proletariat existing in opposition to an oligarchical 1%. A business class that have been steadily waging a clandestine class war through market deregulation and psychopathic economic exploitation. The surprisingly sanguine Scot told me that now this exploitation is reaching critical mass, too many families are affected, too many people are losing jobs, too many people across our planet cannot put food on their family’s table for this behavior to continue unopposed.
As I listened, Johnny, a wild-eyed wolf man drummer, continued the burgeoning rhythm, a slow, comforting nocturnal heartbeat.

Later, leaving the McDonald’s lavvy (the staff were lovely and friendly and seemed to really like the protestors; recognizing perhaps whose interests were being represented) we exploited corporate facilities further by questioning Bill, a seasoned campaigner, in Dirty Ron’s boutique brand, Pret a Manger.

Bill has been an activist for many years primarily with the early campaigns to bring awareness and justice to sufferers of HIV and AIDS. He said there were similarities with the #OccupyWallStreet movement in terms of the bureaucratic obstacles and official reluctance, but that this huge issue of social inequality, of unbearable economic disparity has a veracity and velocity that was difficult even for those on the ground floor to anticipate.
Daniel Pinchbeck proposes that we are entering an era of profound change of consciousness. That capitalism has provided our civilization with the machinery of mass communication and with it potential global union.
It occurs that the relentless charge of vagueness leveled at this movement may be it’s great strength. The reason there is no candid agenda is because a spiritual shift this seismic is initially difficult to legislate.

I think another attractive distinction that #OccupyWallStreet has is that unlike a lot of pious “Lefty” movements it’s a riot down there – I mean in the sense of “fun” not the kind of riots I was arrested at as a boy. Why, I met a fellow in a skin-tight stars and stripes gimp suit, all covered with scribbles and slogans. I’m not ashamed to admit that in the giddiness of the moment I quite forgot myself and unzipped his mouth and planted a kiss on his full lips. Only after did I ask his sexual orientation which he described as “open minded”, the perv.

As I was leaving, my outfit compromised once more by the addition of a freely given plastic poncho (it wasn’t really a poncho it was a sack, I had to chew my way out of it to make a head-hole, even then I was hardly Clint Eastwood but I had to do something about my hair. Plus my ascot was by now ruined) a bloke I spoke to, a former US government employee, a Doogie Howser Deepthroat, told me of the fear the movement had generated amongst politicians. #OccupyWallStreet has no recognizable funding, an anomaly the government does not know how to address. Typically public protests are funded by non-profit organizations that are easy to hound, and behind them foundations that would yield to political intimidation. But this amorphous, righteous, global collective is impossible to buy, too popular to repress and too peaceful to oppose militarily. Those in power for the first time in two generations are being confronted with something they don’t understand, and they are afraid.

As I walked home to my 1% apartment I felt incredibly hopeful, the benevolence and enlightenment of the Zuccotti tribe alleviated my feelings of hypocrisy, at least for now. Looking back through the media trucks and flash bulbs it was apparent that they have colonized more than the formerly anonymous square, they have colonized the international agenda. All about the surveillance cameras observe, the police look on.

The Occupy Wall Street movement is already a success on the most basic of principles; it’s own simple objective as stated in its name has been met- Wall Street is occupied. At least Zuccotti Park is, this once architecturally banal plaza, framed by silently thundering corporate tombstones, is becoming both the graveyard of a deceased economic dogma and the cradle of the revolution.

America is awake and with it the American dream has awoken.


Russell Brand rocks. Just sayin'.

[atomiczombie]

Thank you for this, AZ. Seriously.
But I gotta sit tight on my feelings about what I have to say because I want to make sure that I'm not filtering through some fucked up anger I already have about O'Bama (checking my bias for hidden prejudices, etc.)(whole other thread, maybe RZ it).

*Thank you*

~D

Ya know, Obama has been a huge disappointment to a lot of people. It is really starting to sink in just how conservative he is, which is why his poll numbers are so low among his voting base. Noam Chomsky says he is worse than Bush in terms of foreign policy. And he has been in the pockets of Wall Street all along, don't doubt that. This is why I am a member of the Green Party. I lost my respect for the Democrats 20 years ago.

[Kätzchen]

I just want to say that I am learning so much from all of you.
Thank you for your thoughtful posts,
your ability to offer criticism in ways that is productive
and keeps to its own organic process - which- to me,
is highly characteristic of what successful campaigns for
social change is all about.

I liked Theo's post - I've been watching this guy for awhile on Youtube.
He's got such a way with illustrating priniciple in action and the thought process behind certain agenda and messages we get from them (those who facilitate and aspects of gatekeeping and the forms these particular strategies take).

Miss Tick expressed the idea that if certain politics monopolize (could we say it's oligarchy? yes, maybe, no?) and materialize we will all be sharing in the sorrow of what seats of entitlement, consumer based behaviors have wrought upon the environment (literally and metaphorically).
The perfect storm, the trifecta.

Are people listening?

I propose the other side (any side, really) is listening.

The hyper-acuteness of the OWS message is something worth more than just advocating massive change in our fiscal and financial sectors. It's about a change of heart toward ourselves, others and sentient beings who have no voice, but depend on us to be and act mercifully in our use and touch upon each and every aspect of relationships we have, personally and communally, socially. And that's just it. Being socially responsible. Reduce our global footprint in terms of improving the natural resources we have by being faithful stewards of our environment.

I'm inspired by the participation in this thread and the many various perspective and informed people in our membership.

K, I'm gonna go back to reading,
~D

PS/ AZ, any person who uses a corollary involving Clint Eastwood has my attention.

[atomiczombie]

I am just excited that the national conversation is getting moved in a different direction. I am excited that people are re-thinking their assumptions about the ways that big money banks and corporations are influencing every aspect of our lives, and that there is a readiness and hope for actually doing something about it. I haven't felt excited about political change in a long time. I have been cynical and discouraged for 20 years. Today I am not.

[nowandthen]

Some good points

http://www.indigenouspolitics.com/

What’s in a Name? Critical Indigenous Engagement with “Occupy” Wall Street
Join your host, J. Kehaulani Kauanui for an episode that focuses on critical indigenous engagements and participation with the Occupy Wall Street (OWS) demonstrations. Listen to the show and learn about the indigenous history of Wall Street, which was built on Lenape tribal territory, and the terms of domination and potentials for decolonization. The program include interviews with: Joanne Barker (Lenape nation of eastern Oklahoma); Farrett (Cree) and Charles Whalen (Oglala Lakota) direct from OWS;Tiokasin Ghosthorse (Cheyenne River Lakota); and Steven Newcomb (Lenape and Shawnee). Native activists have questioned how successful OWS can be given the problematic language of “occupation” and absence of meaningful acknowledgment and redress of the issue of the continued occupation of native lands. As John Paul Montano (Nishnaabe) asserted in, “An Open Letter to the Occupy Wall Street Activists” from September 22, 2011, he read the OWS statement hoping and believing that “enlightened folks fighting for justice and equality and an end to imperialism…” would make mention of the fact that the very land upon which they are protesting does not belong to them—that they are guests upon that stolen indigenous land. And, as Jessica Yee (Mohawk) put it in her column, “OCCUPY WALL STREET: The Game of Colonialism and further nationalism to be decolonized from the ‘Left’”, published on racialicious.com, “Colonialism also leads to capitalism, globalization, and industrialization. How can we truly end capitalism without ending colonialism?” Original air-date: 10-18-11.

[Cin]

I would imagine they are all in Wall St.'s pocket, but the way the numbers were interpreted is a tad off.

Romney's Raised More Than Twice the Wall St. Cash as Obama... Why Does the WaPo Say the Opposite?

Compare and contrast. Here, via Open Secrets, are the top recipients of campaign cash from the finance, insurance and real estate sector, according to FEC filings:

Top Recipients, 2011-2012

Candidate Office Amount
Romney, Mitt (R) $5,047,797
Obama, Barack (D) $2,464,605
Gillibrand, Kirsten (D-NY) Senate $1,398,945
Corker, Bob (R-TN) Senate $1,195,864
Boehner, John (R-OH) House $1,159,137

And here is the lede from a Washington Post story that's been getting a lot of play:

Despite frosty relations with the titans of Wall Street, President Obama has still managed to raise far more money this year from the financial and banking sector than Mitt Romney or any other Republican presidential candidate, according to new fundraising data.

What's going on? Well, the WaPo included not only cash that Obama has raised on Wall Street for his campaign, but also for the Democratic National Committee, which, it notes, "will aid in his reelection effort."

That's not an entirely inappropriate analysis -- Obama raised that cash, which is news-worthy if for no other reason than we have a lot of Wall Street execs taking to various opinion pages to whine about how mean Obama has been to them and promising to take their balls and go home if he's not nicer. And of course Obama was the Darling of Wall Street in 2008. But there are a few problems with it.

First, this is simply an advantage of being an incumbent at this point in the cycle. Eventually the GOP will have a nominee and he (it won't be Bachmann) will go to Wall Street and raise money for the RNC.

So, it's an apples to oranges comparison. The RNC has already raised about $3.3 million from finance and real estate, according to OpenSecrets.

The other problem is that while the DNC will "aid in his re-election effort," it will also spend some of that cash on party infrastructure and for the campaigns of other Democratic candidates.

I note this mainly because we use contributions to the campaigns themselves in our report on Wall Street's influence in Washington, merely noting in parentheses that the figures don't include money raised for the two parties' national committees. So, a clarification seemed to be in order.

[Cin]

I would imagine they are all in Wall St.'s pocket, but the way the numbers were interpreted is a tad off.

Romney's Raised More Than Twice the Wall St. Cash as Obama... Why Does the WaPo Say the Opposite?

Compare and contrast. Here, via Open Secrets, are the top recipients of campaign cash from the finance, insurance and real estate sector, according to FEC filings:

Top Recipients, 2011-2012

Candidate Office Amount
Romney, Mitt (R) $5,047,797
Obama, Barack (D) $2,464,605
Gillibrand, Kirsten (D-NY) Senate $1,398,945
Corker, Bob (R-TN) Senate $1,195,864
Boehner, John (R-OH) House $1,159,137

And here is the lede from a Washington Post story that's been getting a lot of play:

Despite frosty relations with the titans of Wall Street, President Obama has still managed to raise far more money this year from the financial and banking sector than Mitt Romney or any other Republican presidential candidate, according to new fundraising data.

What's going on? Well, the WaPo included not only cash that Obama has raised on Wall Street for his campaign, but also for the Democratic National Committee, which, it notes, "will aid in his reelection effort."

That's not an entirely inappropriate analysis -- Obama raised that cash, which is news-worthy if for no other reason than we have a lot of Wall Street execs taking to various opinion pages to whine about how mean Obama has been to them and promising to take their balls and go home if he's not nicer. And of course Obama was the Darling of Wall Street in 2008. But there are a few problems with it.

First, this is simply an advantage of being an incumbent at this point in the cycle. Eventually the GOP will have a nominee and he (it won't be Bachmann) will go to Wall Street and raise money for the RNC.

So, it's an apples to oranges comparison. The RNC has already raised about $3.3 million from finance and real estate, according to OpenSecrets.

The other problem is that while the DNC will "aid in his re-election effort," it will also spend some of that cash on party infrastructure and for the campaigns of other Democratic candidates.

I note this mainly because we use contributions to the campaigns themselves in our report on Wall Street's influence in Washington, merely noting in parentheses that the figures don't include money raised for the two parties' national committees. So, a clarification seemed to be in order.


forgot to add link to source for the previous post:
http://www.alternet.org/newsandviews/article/683477/romney%27s_raised_more_than_twice_the_wall_st._cas h_as_obama..._why_does_the_wapo_say_the_opposite/


To Be With the 99%, President Obama Must Fire Tim Geithner
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dylan-ratigan/to-be-with-the-99-preside_b_1021972.html

[Cin]

Interesting article. Well, I think it is anyway.

http://www.alternet.org/world/152802/how_can_we_rouse_police_and_other_protectors_of_th e_corporatocracy_--_%22guards%22_of_the_status_quo_--_to_join_the_ows_rebellion_/?page=1

[persiphone]

The only one of those I haven't seen is deconstructing supper. I'll check it out tomorrow if it's on Netflix along with that 1% doco.

and don't forget The End Of The Line. great flick. very depressing.

[persiphone]

Interesting article. Well, I think it is anyway.

http://www.alternet.org/world/152802/how_can_we_rouse_police_and_other_protectors_of_th e_corporatocracy_--_%22guards%22_of_the_status_quo_--_to_join_the_ows_rebellion_/?page=1


me too. it was very thought provoking and it enlightened me to an aspect of the system that i hadn't thought of before. but it clicks with me as a parent of a kid in the public school system. i've had more than a few convos with teachers over the years about my child. i have to remind them that i'm not raising a kid to automatically do what adults say just cuz their adults. my son is capable of thinking for himself and it's created some communication problems within the school system. he's also not afraid to point out adult injustice. they don't like that very much either. so when i get called in over an incident like that, the teacher is shocked when i take my son's side. the experience has been very much like swimming upriver for the past 10 years. so this thought process actually makes perfect sense to me. i just never knew what to call it other than i knew something was really fucked up.

[Sachita]

and don't forget The End Of The Line. great flick. very depressing.



Is that the one about factory farming? Its too hard for me to watch these. I do, however drive and buy pasture grass fed meats. I don't eat meat often but when I do...

But you know a lot of people can watch the docs, cry, bitch and get upset but a week later still spend three days a week in a drive thru or buying steaks at sam's club. The truth is you love only the animals you can see and touch.

[persiphone]

Is that the one about factory farming? Its too hard for me to watch these. I do, however drive and buy pasture grass fed meats. I don't eat meat often but when I do...

But you know a lot of people can watch the docs, cry, bitch and get upset but a week later still spend three days a week in a drive thru or buying steaks at sam's club. The truth is you love only the animals you can see and touch.


End Of The Line is about the state of our ocean fish supply and yeah i lost sleep over it. the result of that movie for me is that now i will only purchase alaskan seafood and some stuff off the coast of oregon that i can get local. but that's it. i will eat nothing else and i stopped going to sushi bars. it's pretty skeery.

on a side note....."grass fed beef" is often what they call "finished" in a feed lot. so it completely defeats the purpose. i just recently learned this myself (about a year ago) and i was kinda pissed cuz here i thought i was buying the right meat. you're not completely safe with any meat you buy in any retail store unless it's certified organic period. otherwise....you're basically paying higher prices for the exact same shit. oh, and "grass fed" doesn't specifiy just how LONG they were grass fed before hitting the feed lot, either. i thought that was interesting. so they could be grass fed for the first 6 months of their lives and then spend the rest of their lives on a feed lot and still be marketed as "grass fed" or they could spend a year being grass fed and spend the last year on a feed lot. it's complete and utter bullshit that makes me madder than hell. cuz the public doesn't know and that's just wrong

[atomiczombie]

I would imagine they are all in Wall St.'s pocket, but the way the numbers were interpreted is a tad off.

Romney's Raised More Than Twice the Wall St. Cash as Obama... Why Does the WaPo Say the Opposite?

Compare and contrast. Here, via Open Secrets, are the top recipients of campaign cash from the finance, insurance and real estate sector, according to FEC filings:

Top Recipients, 2011-2012

Candidate Office Amount
Romney, Mitt (R) $5,047,797
Obama, Barack (D) $2,464,605
Gillibrand, Kirsten (D-NY) Senate $1,398,945
Corker, Bob (R-TN) Senate $1,195,864
Boehner, John (R-OH) House $1,159,137

And here is the lede from a Washington Post story that's been getting a lot of play:

Despite frosty relations with the titans of Wall Street, President Obama has still managed to raise far more money this year from the financial and banking sector than Mitt Romney or any other Republican presidential candidate, according to new fundraising data.

What's going on? Well, the WaPo included not only cash that Obama has raised on Wall Street for his campaign, but also for the Democratic National Committee, which, it notes, "will aid in his reelection effort."

That's not an entirely inappropriate analysis -- Obama raised that cash, which is news-worthy if for no other reason than we have a lot of Wall Street execs taking to various opinion pages to whine about how mean Obama has been to them and promising to take their balls and go home if he's not nicer. And of course Obama was the Darling of Wall Street in 2008. But there are a few problems with it.

First, this is simply an advantage of being an incumbent at this point in the cycle. Eventually the GOP will have a nominee and he (it won't be Bachmann) will go to Wall Street and raise money for the RNC.

So, it's an apples to oranges comparison. The RNC has already raised about $3.3 million from finance and real estate, according to OpenSecrets.

The other problem is that while the DNC will "aid in his re-election effort," it will also spend some of that cash on party infrastructure and for the campaigns of other Democratic candidates.

I note this mainly because we use contributions to the campaigns themselves in our report on Wall Street's influence in Washington, merely noting in parentheses that the figures don't include money raised for the two parties' national committees. So, a clarification seemed to be in order.


Yes I totally get what you are saying. However, the fact remains that Obama and the Democrats are just as much in the pocket of big banks and corporations as are the Republicans.

[Cin]

Yes I totally get what you are saying. However, the fact remains that Obama and the Democrats are just as much in the pocket of big banks and corporations as are the Republicans.

LOL, yes, I believe you are exactly right. They are all in the pocket of the Wall Street. And it looks like both parties are equally compensated for their efforts. I just came across the article and thought it was interesting how The Washington Post interpreted the numbers. Doesn't change a thing except WaPo got it backwards.

[SoNotHer]

I agree, Sachita. I look for beliefs to morph into actions.

Someone mentioned the destruction of the oceans. If you haven't seen Dr. Jeremy Jackson's TED lecture, you should:

u0VHC1-DO_8

Jeremy Jackson: How we wrecked the ocean - YouTube


Is that the one about factory farming? Its too hard for me to watch these. I do, however drive and buy pasture grass fed meats. I don't eat meat often but when I do...

But you know a lot of people can watch the docs, cry, bitch and get upset but a week later still spend three days a week in a drive thru or buying steaks at sam's club. The truth is you love only the animals you can see and touch.

[SoNotHer]

It sounds like a lot of us are talking about the same great ideas about social justice, food miles, compassion and other important issues in this and other threads. I'm sad that we don't live closer. I'm sure we would have a lot of fun sharing dip and chips (organic, local, dairy-free of course :-) and discussions about what moves us and what we want to move forward.

What do you all think about doing this on the Internet? I've attend a couple webinars (for permaculture and shamanic plants). I thought they were terrific experiences. What if a time and day was set up to explore films, lectures, essays and subjects together and talk about them via the chat room or Skype or another venue?

I personally would love it. What do you think?

[Toughy]

The cops shut down Occupy San Jose last night and Occupy Oakland is being told to vacate today.

I was down at Occupy SF today.........they seem to be going strong....about 30-40 tents and lots of tourists taking pictures of them. The cops have barricades around the Federal Reserve Bank....about 2 blocks from the Occupy SF site....lots of cops around.

The best sign I read:

You would think a police state would pay it's police better

Oh yeah
3:00pm Saturday a rally and march against police brutality is happening.......I think it's going on around the US.

[Sachita]

End Of The Line is about the state of our ocean fish supply and yeah i lost sleep over it. the result of that movie for me is that now i will only purchase alaskan seafood and some stuff off the coast of oregon that i can get local. but that's it. i will eat nothing else and i stopped going to sushi bars. it's pretty skeery.

on a side note....."grass fed beef" is often what they call "finished" in a feed lot. so it completely defeats the purpose. i just recently learned this myself (about a year ago) and i was kinda pissed cuz here i thought i was buying the right meat. you're not completely safe with any meat you buy in any retail store unless it's certified organic period. otherwise....you're basically paying higher prices for the exact same shit. oh, and "grass fed" doesn't specifiy just how LONG they were grass fed before hitting the feed lot, either. i thought that was interesting. so they could be grass fed for the first 6 months of their lives and then spend the rest of their lives on a feed lot and still be marketed as "grass fed" or they could spend a year being grass fed and spend the last year on a feed lot. it's complete and utter bullshit that makes me madder than hell. cuz the public doesn't know and that's just wrong

Yes I understand about grass fed and how the popularity has forced cutting corners. I buy my beef from a local farm, have been there and know them. I think that its important to know. But they do feed some organic grain and have good permaculture practices.

[atomiczombie]

Check this out:

http://www.nycga.net/category/minutes/

It's the minutes from the daily General Assemblies at OWS Zucotti Park (Liberty Plaza). This form of consensus building is simple, yet it seems revolutionary when you compare it to the type of "democracy" we are used to here in the US.

[Quintease]

Hmm... I have police on my Facebook account. Most of them seem to have bought into the lie that OWS is about a sense of entitlement and wanting something for nothing.

Since I live in Las Vegas, I can totally understand where this guy is coming from, on "ringers", "muscle" and the Three Card Monty game. He's right on the mark with what will probably become of the OWS movement. :winky:

i9zkQcLi4Yo#!

~Theo~ :bouquet:

[Quintease]

Muslims join Jewish and Christian groups nnCqNpeVLI0

[Ebon]

Coverage for OWS since the US isn't covering it

UFRh0a6z5J8&NR

Occupy Melbourne

aPbcAd-d-tw&

Occupy London

6p7-bCBIesw

Occupy Toronto

9HVvnjLzU2I

[PapiChino]

I looked and I didn't see a thread on this particular subject, so I decided to start one here. I want to have a place to specifically discuss the Occupy Wall Street movement, rallys, and how it is spreading across the nation.

Here is their newly voted on platform/declaration:




I think this movement is tremendously important and it's existence is an inevitable outcome of decades of economic injustices perpetrated by the government, banks and corporations in the US and around the world.

What do you all think about the Occupy Wall Street movement and it's message?

Thanks for starting this...

[Ebon]

Naomi Wolf arrested at OWS

http://occupycyberspace.wordpress.com/2011/10/20/how-i-was-arrested-at-occupy-wall-street/

pt7pIhapo1o


How I Was Arrested at Occupy Wall Street
Naomi Wolfe

Naomi Wolfe

Last night I was arrested in my home town, outside an event to which I had been invited, for standing lawfully on the sidewalk in an evening gown. Let me explain; my partner and I were attending an event for the Huffington Post, for which I often write: Game Changers 2011, in a venue space on Hudson Street. As we entered the space, we saw that about 200 Occupy Wall Street protesters were peacefully assembled and were chanting. They wanted to address Governor Andrew Cuomo, who was going to be arriving at the event.

They were using a technique that has become known as “the human mic” – by which the crowd laboriously repeats every word the speaker says – since they had been told that using real megaphones was illegal. In my book Give Me Liberty, a blueprint for how to open up a closing civil society, I have a chapter on permits – which is a crucial subject to understand for anyone involved in protest in the US. In 70s America, protest used to be very effective, but in subsequent decades municipalities have sneakily created a web of “overpermiticisation” – requirements that were designed to stifle freedom of assembly and the right to petition government for redress of grievances, both of which are part of our first amendment. One of these made-up permit requirements, which are not transparent or accountable, is the megaphone restriction.

So I informed the group on Hudson Street that they had a first amendment right to use a megaphone and that the National Lawyers’ Guild should appeal the issue if they got arrested. And I repeated the words of the first amendment, which the crowd repeated. Then my partner suggested that I ask the group for their list of demands. Since we would be inside, we thought it would be helpful to take their list into the event and if I had a chance to talk with the governor I could pass the list on.

That is how a democracy works, right? The people have the right to address their representatives. We went inside, chatted with our friends, but needed to leave before the governor had arrived. I decided I would present their list to his office in the morning and write about the response. On our exit, I saw that the protesters had been cordoned off by a now-massive phalanx of NYPD cops and pinned against the far side of the street – far away from the event they sought to address.

I went up and asked them why. They replied that they had been informed that the Huffington Post event had a permit that forbade them to use the sidewalk. I knew from my investigative reporting on NYC permits that this was impossible: a private entity cannot lease the public sidewalks; even film crews must allow pedestrian traffic. I asked the police for clarification – no response. I went over to the sidewalk at issue and identified myself as a NYC citizen and a reporter, and asked to see the permit in question or to locate the source on the police or event side that claimed it forbade citizen access to a public sidewalk. Finally a tall man, who seemed to be with the event, confessed that while it did have a permit, the permit did allow for protest so long as we did not block pedestrian passage.

I thanked him, returned to the protesters, and said: “The permit allows us to walk on the other side of the street if we don’t block access. I am now going to walk on the public sidewalk and not block it. It is legal to do so. Please join me if you wish.” My partner and I then returned to the event-side sidewalk and began to walk peacefully arm in arm, while about 30 or 40 people walked with us in single file, not blocking access. Then a phalanx of perhaps 40 white-shirted senior offices descended out of seemingly nowhere and, with a megaphone (which was supposedly illegal for citizens to use), one said: “You are unlawfully creating a disruption.

You are ordered to disperse.” I approached him peacefully, slowly, gently and respectfully and said: “I am confused. I was told that the permit in question allows us to walk if we don’t block pedestrian access and as you see we are complying with the permit.” He gave me a look of pure hate. “Are you going to back down?” he shouted. I stood, immobilised, for a moment. “Are you getting out of my way?” I did not even make a conscious decision not to “fall back” – I simply couldn’t even will myself to do so, because I knew that he was not giving a lawful order and that if I stepped aside it would be not because of the law, which I was following, but as a capitulation to sheer force. In that moment’s hesitation, he said, “OK,” gestured, and my partner and I were surrounded by about 20 officers who pulled our hands behind our backs and cuffed us with plastic handcuffs.

We were taken in a van to the seventh precinct – the scary part about that is that the protesters and lawyers marched to the first precinct, which handles Hudson Street, but in the van the police got the message to avoid them by rerouting me. I understood later that the protesters were lied to about our whereabouts, which seemed to me to be a trickle-down of the Bush-era detention practice of unaccountable detentions. The officers who had us in custody were very courteous, and several expressed sympathy for the movements’ aims.

Nonetheless, my partner and I had our possessions taken from us, our ID copied, and we were placed in separate cells for about half an hour. It was clear that by then the police knew there was scrutiny of this arrest so they handled us with great courtesy, but my phone was taken and for half an hour I was in a faeces- or blood-smeared cell, thinking at that moment the only thing that separates civil societies from barbaric states is the rule of law – that finds the prisoner, and holds the arresting officers and courts accountable. Another scary outcome I discovered is that, when the protesters marched to the first precinct, the whole of Erickson Street was cordoned off – “frozen” they were told, “by Homeland Security”. Obviously if DHS now has powers to simply take over a New York City street because of an arrest for peaceable conduct by a middle-aged writer in an evening gown, we have entered a stage of the closing of America, which is a serious departure from our days as a free republic in which municipalities are governed by police forces.

The police are now telling my supporters that the permit in question gave the event managers “control of the sidewalks”. I have asked to see the permit but still haven’t been provided with it – if such a category now exists, I have never heard of it; that, too, is a serious blow to an open civil society. What did I take away? Just that, unfortunately, my partner and I became exhibit A in a process that I have been warning Americans about since 2007: first they come for the “other” – the “terrorist”, the brown person, the Muslim, the outsider; then they come for you – while you are standing on a sidewalk in evening dress, obeying the law.

By Naomi Wolf, Guardian UK

[persiphone]

i'm actually pretty surprised by the police response. perhaps i shouldn't be. perhaps i knew this would be the reaction all along i just didn't want to admit it. police brutality is something that happens to other people in far away places. it's something you read about sometimes in the morning news and you shake your head while reading it and then go about your day. and now the police brutality is in our face and happening to our own with massive frequency. and yes, we have lost our rights. we have no choices. and this is fast becoming possibly the second greatest civil rights movement in our history.

[SoNotHer]

I have enormous respect for NW, and her post are one of the things I miss about FB.

This post feels momentous to me. I think we're watching the historical landmarks of this movement fall into place.

No wake up call is easy, particularly when it has been a long, self-induced, self-delusional slumber. But we are waking up. I am more hopeful about that than ever.

Thank you for the videos and Wolf's commentary, Ebon. :-)

Naomi Wolf arrested at OWS

http://occupycyberspace.wordpress.com/2011/10/20/how-i-was-arrested-at-occupy-wall-street/

pt7pIhapo1o


How I Was Arrested at Occupy Wall Street
Naomi Wolfe

Naomi Wolfe

Last night I was arrested in my home town, outside an event to which I had been invited, for standing lawfully on the sidewalk in an evening gown. Let me explain; my partner and I were attending an event for the Huffington Post, for which I often write: Game Changers 2011, in a venue space on Hudson Street. As we entered the space, we saw that about 200 Occupy Wall Street protesters were peacefully assembled and were chanting. They wanted to address Governor Andrew Cuomo, who was going to be arriving at the event.

They were using a technique that has become known as “the human mic” – by which the crowd laboriously repeats every word the speaker says – since they had been told that using real megaphones was illegal. In my book Give Me Liberty, a blueprint for how to open up a closing civil society, I have a chapter on permits – which is a crucial subject to understand for anyone involved in protest in the US. In 70s America, protest used to be very effective, but in subsequent decades municipalities have sneakily created a web of “overpermiticisation” – requirements that were designed to stifle freedom of assembly and the right to petition government for redress of grievances, both of which are part of our first amendment. One of these made-up permit requirements, which are not transparent or accountable, is the megaphone restriction.

So I informed the group on Hudson Street that they had a first amendment right to use a megaphone and that the National Lawyers’ Guild should appeal the issue if they got arrested. And I repeated the words of the first amendment, which the crowd repeated. Then my partner suggested that I ask the group for their list of demands. Since we would be inside, we thought it would be helpful to take their list into the event and if I had a chance to talk with the governor I could pass the list on.

That is how a democracy works, right? The people have the right to address their representatives. We went inside, chatted with our friends, but needed to leave before the governor had arrived. I decided I would present their list to his office in the morning and write about the response. On our exit, I saw that the protesters had been cordoned off by a now-massive phalanx of NYPD cops and pinned against the far side of the street – far away from the event they sought to address.

I went up and asked them why. They replied that they had been informed that the Huffington Post event had a permit that forbade them to use the sidewalk. I knew from my investigative reporting on NYC permits that this was impossible: a private entity cannot lease the public sidewalks; even film crews must allow pedestrian traffic. I asked the police for clarification – no response. I went over to the sidewalk at issue and identified myself as a NYC citizen and a reporter, and asked to see the permit in question or to locate the source on the police or event side that claimed it forbade citizen access to a public sidewalk. Finally a tall man, who seemed to be with the event, confessed that while it did have a permit, the permit did allow for protest so long as we did not block pedestrian passage.

I thanked him, returned to the protesters, and said: “The permit allows us to walk on the other side of the street if we don’t block access. I am now going to walk on the public sidewalk and not block it. It is legal to do so. Please join me if you wish.” My partner and I then returned to the event-side sidewalk and began to walk peacefully arm in arm, while about 30 or 40 people walked with us in single file, not blocking access. Then a phalanx of perhaps 40 white-shirted senior offices descended out of seemingly nowhere and, with a megaphone (which was supposedly illegal for citizens to use), one said: “You are unlawfully creating a disruption.

You are ordered to disperse.” I approached him peacefully, slowly, gently and respectfully and said: “I am confused. I was told that the permit in question allows us to walk if we don’t block pedestrian access and as you see we are complying with the permit.” He gave me a look of pure hate. “Are you going to back down?” he shouted. I stood, immobilised, for a moment. “Are you getting out of my way?” I did not even make a conscious decision not to “fall back” – I simply couldn’t even will myself to do so, because I knew that he was not giving a lawful order and that if I stepped aside it would be not because of the law, which I was following, but as a capitulation to sheer force. In that moment’s hesitation, he said, “OK,” gestured, and my partner and I were surrounded by about 20 officers who pulled our hands behind our backs and cuffed us with plastic handcuffs.

We were taken in a van to the seventh precinct – the scary part about that is that the protesters and lawyers marched to the first precinct, which handles Hudson Street, but in the van the police got the message to avoid them by rerouting me. I understood later that the protesters were lied to about our whereabouts, which seemed to me to be a trickle-down of the Bush-era detention practice of unaccountable detentions. The officers who had us in custody were very courteous, and several expressed sympathy for the movements’ aims.

Nonetheless, my partner and I had our possessions taken from us, our ID copied, and we were placed in separate cells for about half an hour. It was clear that by then the police knew there was scrutiny of this arrest so they handled us with great courtesy, but my phone was taken and for half an hour I was in a faeces- or blood-smeared cell, thinking at that moment the only thing that separates civil societies from barbaric states is the rule of law – that finds the prisoner, and holds the arresting officers and courts accountable. Another scary outcome I discovered is that, when the protesters marched to the first precinct, the whole of Erickson Street was cordoned off – “frozen” they were told, “by Homeland Security”. Obviously if DHS now has powers to simply take over a New York City street because of an arrest for peaceable conduct by a middle-aged writer in an evening gown, we have entered a stage of the closing of America, which is a serious departure from our days as a free republic in which municipalities are governed by police forces.

The police are now telling my supporters that the permit in question gave the event managers “control of the sidewalks”. I have asked to see the permit but still haven’t been provided with it – if such a category now exists, I have never heard of it; that, too, is a serious blow to an open civil society. What did I take away? Just that, unfortunately, my partner and I became exhibit A in a process that I have been warning Americans about since 2007: first they come for the “other” – the “terrorist”, the brown person, the Muslim, the outsider; then they come for you – while you are standing on a sidewalk in evening dress, obeying the law.

By Naomi Wolf, Guardian UK

[Cin]

Here is a link to what I found to be a great article. It’s quite long, 30 pages, kind of like a short story - a non-fiction horror story. It’s an analysis of financial terrorism and it explains to some degree the process by which global bankers plunder nations.

It wasn’t a lot of new material exactly, but it cleared up a lot of stuff for me. It connected a lot of dots. Maybe someone else will get something out of it as well.

If it wasn't so long I would have posted the whole article because i've noticed that sometimes just a post with a link can get lost. Oh well here's hoping...


http://andrewgavinmarshall.com/2011/07/15/167/

[atomiczombie]

73eRqA4-Yic

[Cin]

Throw Them Out With the Trash: Why Homelessness Is Becoming an Occupy Wall Street Issue
by Barbara Ehrenreich

As anyone knows who has ever had to set up a military encampment or build a village from the ground up, occupations pose staggering logistical problems. Large numbers of people must be fed and kept reasonably warm and dry. Trash has to be removed; medical care and rudimentary security provided -- to which ends a dozen or more committees may toil night and day. But for the individual occupier, one problem often overshadows everything else, including job loss, the destruction of the middle class, and the reign of the 1%. And that is the single question: Where am I going to pee?

Some of the Occupy Wall Street encampments now spreading across the U.S. have access to Port-o-Potties (Freedom Plaza in Washington, D.C.) or, better yet, restrooms with sinks and running water (Fort Wayne, Indiana). Others require their residents to forage on their own. At Zuccotti Park, just blocks from Wall Street, this means long waits for the restroom at a nearby Burger King or somewhat shorter ones at a Starbucks a block away. At McPherson Square in D.C., a twenty-something occupier showed me the pizza parlor where she can cop a pee during the hours it’s open, as well as the alley where she crouches late at night. Anyone with restroom-related issues -- arising from age, pregnancy, prostate problems, or irritable bowel syndrome -- should prepare to join the revolution in diapers.

Of course, political protesters do not face the challenges of urban camping alone. Homeless people confront the same issues every day: how to scrape together meals, keep warm at night by covering themselves with cardboard or tarp, and relieve themselves without committing a crime. Public restrooms are sparse in American cities -- "as if the need to go to the bathroom does not exist," travel expert Arthur Frommer once observed. And yet to yield to bladder pressure is to risk arrest. A report entitled “Criminalizing Crisis,” to be released later this month by the National Law Center on Homelessness and Poverty, recounts the following story from Wenatchee, Washington:

"Toward the end of 2010, a family of two parents and three children that had been experiencing homelessness for a year and a half applied for a 2-bedroom apartment. The day before a scheduled meeting with the apartment manager during the final stages of acquiring the lease, the father of the family was arrested for public urination. The arrest occurred at an hour when no public restrooms were available for use. Due to the arrest, the father was unable to make the appointment with the apartment manager and the property was rented out to another person. As of March 2011, the family was still homeless and searching for housing."

What the Occupy Wall Streeters are beginning to discover, and homeless people have known all along, is that most ordinary, biologically necessary activities are illegal when performed in American streets -- not just peeing, but sitting, lying down, and sleeping. While the laws vary from city to city, one of the harshest is in Sarasota, Florida, which passed an ordinance in 2005 that makes it illegal to “engage in digging or earth-breaking activities” -- that is, to build a latrine -- cook, make a fire, or be asleep and “when awakened state that he or she has no other place to live.”

It is illegal, in other words, to be homeless or live outdoors for any other reason. It should be noted, though, that there are no laws requiring cities to provide food, shelter, or restrooms for their indigent citizens.

The current prohibition on homelessness began to take shape in the 1980s, along with the ferocious growth of the financial industry (Wall Street and all its tributaries throughout the nation). That was also the era in which we stopped being a nation that manufactured much beyond weightless, invisible “financial products,” leaving the old industrial working class to carve out a livelihood at places like Wal-Mart.

As it turned out, the captains of the new “casino economy” -- the stock brokers and investment bankers -- were highly sensitive, one might say finicky, individuals, easily offended by having to step over the homeless in the streets or bypass them in commuter train stations. In an economy where a centimillionaire could turn into a billionaire overnight, the poor and unwashed were a major buzzkill. Starting with Mayor Rudy Giuliani in New York, city after city passed “broken windows” or “quality of life” ordinances making it dangerous for the homeless to loiter or, in some cases, even look “indigent,” in public spaces.

No one has yet tallied all the suffering occasioned by this crackdown -- the deaths from cold and exposure -- but “Criminalizing Crisis” offers this story about a homeless pregnant woman in Columbia, South Carolina:

"During daytime hours, when she could not be inside of a shelter, she attempted to spend time in a museum and was told to leave. She then attempted to sit on a bench outside the museum and was again told to relocate. In several other instances, still during her pregnancy, the woman was told that she could not sit in a local park during the day because she would be ‘squatting.’ In early 2011, about six months into her pregnancy, the homeless woman began to feel unwell, went to a hospital, and delivered a stillborn child."

Well before Tahrir Square was a twinkle in anyone’s eye, and even before the recent recession, homeless Americans had begun to act in their own defense, creating organized encampments, usually tent cities, in vacant lots or wooded areas. These communities often feature various elementary forms of self-governance: food from local charities has to be distributed, latrines dug, rules -- such as no drugs, weapons, or violence -- enforced. With all due credit to the Egyptian democracy movement, the Spanish indignados, and rebels all over the world, tent cities are the domestic progenitors of the American occupation movement.

There is nothing “political” about these settlements of the homeless -- no signs denouncing greed or visits from leftwing luminaries -- but they have been treated with far less official forbearance than the occupation encampments of the “American autumn.” LA’s Skid Row endures constant police harassment, for example, but when it rained, Mayor Antonio Villaraigosa had ponchos distributed to nearby Occupy LA.

All over the country, in the last few years, police have moved in on the tent cities of the homeless, one by one, from Seattle to Wooster, Sacramento to Providence, in raids that often leave the former occupants without even their minimal possessions. In Chattanooga, Tennessee, last summer, a charity outreach worker explained the forcible dispersion of a local tent city by saying, “The city will not tolerate a tent city. That’s been made very clear to us. The camps have to be out of sight.”

What occupiers from all walks of life are discovering, at least every time they contemplate taking a leak, is that to be homeless in America is to live like a fugitive. The destitute are our own native-born “illegals,” facing prohibitions on the most basic activities of survival. They are not supposed to soil public space with their urine, their feces, or their exhausted bodies. Nor are they supposed to spoil the landscape with their unusual wardrobe choices or body odors. They are, in fact, supposed to die, and preferably to do so without leaving a corpse for the dwindling public sector to transport, process, and burn.

But the occupiers are not from all walks of life, just from those walks that slope downwards -- from debt, joblessness, and foreclosure -- leading eventually to pauperism and the streets. Some of the present occupiers were homeless to start with, attracted to the occupation encampments by the prospect of free food and at least temporary shelter from police harassment. Many others are drawn from the borderline-homeless “nouveau poor,” and normally encamp on friends’ couches or parents’ folding beds.

In Portland, Austin, and Philadelphia, the Occupy Wall Street movement is taking up the cause of the homeless as its own, which of course it is. Homelessness is not a side issue unconnected to plutocracy and greed. It’s where we’re all eventually headed -- the 99%, or at least the 70%, of us, every debt-loaded college grad, out-of-work school teacher, and impoverished senior -- unless this revolution succeeds.

[SoNotHer]

"It is illegal, in other words, to be homeless or live outdoors for any other reason. It should be noted, though, that there are no laws requiring cities to provide food, shelter, or restrooms for their indigent citizens....All over the country, in the last few years, police have moved in on the tent cities of the homeless, one by one, from Seattle to Wooster, Sacramento to Providence, in raids that often leave the former occupants without even their minimal possessions. In Chattanooga, Tennessee, last summer, a charity outreach worker explained the forcible dispersion of a local tent city by saying, “The city will not tolerate a tent city. That’s been made very clear to us. The camps have to be out of sight.”


Frightening the lines that have already been drawn. Ehrenreich is brilliant, and she's been forecasting this movement for some time with seminal works like Nickel and Dimed.



[QUOTE=Miss Tick;445066][B]Throw Them Out With the Trash: Why Homelessness Is Becoming an Occupy Wall Street Issue
by Barbara Ehrenreich

As anyone knows who has ever had to set up a military encampment or build a village from the ground up..."

[Cin]

This is an excerpt from a work in progress that "plans on examining the nature, ideas, and institutions of power in our world, and to prepare a blueprint for change. That blueprint is The People’s Book Project."

I thought it was interesting.

"While the Global Political Awakening is a present reality in the world, the conditions for a true global revolution and challenge to the global power structures has yet to manifest itself. There are movements in different places, through different peoples, with differing ideas, but they are not yet united in aim, ideology, or action. The elite are seeking to establish a system and structure of global government, and are working very hard to establish such consensus among the global elite, as well as to employ specific strategies of action to effect such a change. We must do the same in order to counter this process.

Living in the era of the ‘Technological Revolution’, we are faced with an unprecedented dichotomy, whereby we are in the circumstances where for the first time in all of human history, a truly global oppressive system and structure of governance is made possible, and simultaneously, for the first time in human history, a global resistance and revolution against power structures is made possible via the communication and information revolutions, with the ultimate potential for all of humanity to become free simultaneously. This is unprecedented. Never before have all of humanity had the possibility of achieving liberation at the same time. Thus, we have never truly had a liberated human society. This is both the greatest challenge and the greatest opportunity that humanity has ever faced. The elite see these developments in the same context, but with the perspective reversed. The elite see the greatest opportunity they have ever faced in human history as being to achieve the actual construction of a global government, never before possible, but now made plausible through advancements in technology; they also see the greatest challenge they have ever collectively faced in human history as being from a globally aware, active, and philosophically united world population seeking liberation and freedom. The elite are articulating these realities, and attempting to strategize and plan actions based upon these concepts. Brzezinski is perhaps the best example of this, as he has been articulating the notion of the ‘Global Political Awakening’ for many years, and has traveled to several of the more prominent think tanks among the imperial nations, warning the elites of the true realities of the world in which they seek to operate and dominate.

So too must the people of the world begin discussing these ideas, issues, and realities in order to establish consensus in understanding and initiatives for action. So long as we remain divided by artificial separations such as seeking change within the context of the ‘nation-state’ (as many in the anti-globalist movement seek a return to nationalism as a “solution”), which keeps them divided from the rest of the world. Only through solidarity of philosophy and action on the part of the world’s people may we come to actually and effectively create true change. The elite understand this. It’s time that we do too."

http://andrewgavinmarshall.com/2011/09/20/a-revolutionary-idea-for-a-revolutionary-time-a-plan-of-action-for-the-global-political-awakening/

[UofMfan]

Jailed Occupy Chicago Protesters Describe Harsh Treatment By Police, Plan To Picket Rahm Emanuel's Office, HuffPo (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/10/24/jailed-occupy-chicago-pro_n_1028081.html)

[SoNotHer]

It occurs to me that the violence began when one person decided to get over on another, not with the resistance - peaceful, permitted or otherwise - to such a notion. We have to remember this - that the violence and offense lies in the inherent nature of greed.

[ruffryder]

Easier said than done, shop local. Do not shop Wal-Mart or go to McDonald's. You can only shop local if there is local farmers. There are not a lot! I went to a local grocery store, but guess what, it gets it's food from the same place Wal-Mart does and it was more expensive. Farmers sell their product to Wal-Mart and other major grocery stores because there is money in it for them. Why sit outside at a farmer's market all day and hope for someone to buy their stuff when a grocery chain will buy in bulk and take all the crop. I worked wholesale meat and produce for 8 years. We bought bulk from farmers and sold to grocery stores, restaurants, and schools. So farmers stuff does actually make it into stores and around town and stays in the U.S. McDonalds buys their beef from local farmers. . . I also worked 6 years in beef production. We got our cattle from local feed lots, slaughtered them, cleaned them up and distributed the meat to McDonalds and other major restaurants and grocery chains. We even shipped to Japan and handled organic meat for the customers that wanted it. I worked Quality Assurance so I know what is in the meat and how safe it is when it comes out of a meat plant. I have taken many tours from where the cattle comes from to how it is slaughtered, packaged, and shipped. You may not want to shop Wal-Mart or McDonalds, however you should research where they actually get their product from because some of it is from local farmers and from the U.S. We may not like McDonalds and Wal-Mart but they do provide many jobs for people in the U.S. Just a thought..

[Dominique]

Easier said than done, shop local. Do not shop Wal-Mart or go to McDonald's. You can only shop local if there is local farmers. There are not a lot! I went to a local grocery store, but guess what, it gets it's food from the same place Wal-Mart does and it was more expensive...

Sigh. You must force change. There have been extensive and in in depth studies about how the Walmarts of the world, have ruined the small businesses. We [the collective we] in this thread, didn't make this stuff up. One of Walmarts biggest down falls is it's unwillingness to pay it's employees a decent wage. They encourage them to apply
for public assistance. Are you following what the Occupy Wall Street is about Ruffryder? Walmart would be part of the 1%.

Personally, I come here to see what is going on with the movement, what NEW idea's people have to contribute and to see what others are doing to affect change. Based on your post below....you are totally ok with the direction our country is going ? Including what the Walmarts of the world are doing. Let us have our space to discuss how we want to affect change, and you just keep doing the same old, same old. OK?

[persiphone]

Easier said than done, shop local. Do not shop Wal-Mart or go to McDonald's. You can only shop local if there is local farmers. There are not a lot! I went to a local grocery store, but guess what, it gets it's food from the same place Wal-Mart does and it was more expensive. Farmers sell their product to Wal-Mart and other major grocery stores because there is money in it for them. Why sit outside at a farmer's market all day and hope for someone to buy their stuff when a grocery chain will buy in bulk and take all the crop. I worked wholesale meat and produce for 8 years. We bought bulk from farmers and sold to grocery stores, restaurants, and schools. So farmers stuff does actually make it into stores and around town and stays in the U.S. McDonalds buys their beef from local farmers. . . I also worked 6 years in beef production. We got our cattle from local feed lots, slaughtered them, cleaned them up and distributed the meat to McDonalds and other major restaurants and grocery chains. We even shipped to Japan and handled organic meat for the customers that wanted it. I worked Quality Assurance so I know what is in the meat and how safe it is when it comes out of a meat plant. I have taken many tours from where the cattle comes from to how it is slaughtered, packaged, and shipped. You may not want to shop Wal-Mart or McDonalds, however you should research where they actually get their product from because some of it is from local farmers and from the U.S. We may not like McDonalds and Wal-Mart but they do provide many jobs for people in the U.S. Just a thought..

i see what you're saying. it's gonna take me a minute to deconstruct all your points carefully, but i'll try to break it down. first lemme say that i agree....not all places in America have the basic option of buying from someplace OTHER than Walmart and to be honest, i think that is exactly the point of Walmart. they certainly didn't want to make buying from anyone else easier on the consumer and Walmart has basically monopolized many food markets, and that, in itself, goes against what we, as consumers, deserve as a liberty in America. corporate monopolies used to be regulated and now they are wildly out of control and taking over, which leaves us with....no choices as consumers.

also, farmers are not making money selling to Walmart. they are just as trapped in that system as the consumer is. when a business like Walmart drives the prices down on everything, it's the farmer that eats that cut, not Walmart. so they end up getting caught in the grow more treadmill rather than the grow better sustainable life cycle because they have to grow more to make ends meet, if they can even do that. and they end up cutting corners, like migrant labor (which is a whole other discussion) that will work those thousands of acres of fields for well below minimum wage illegally. adding onto this...it's corporations like Walmart that have pushed, and got approved, the kinds of visas that allow people from other countries to come and work in agriculture that leads to illegals staying here after those visas have expired. it's actually NOT coming from hordes of people running across the border in the middle of the night. so there are huge impacts that institutions like Walmart represent that are grossly negative on the well being of the country as a whole, from immigration, to agriculture, to food laws, to economic depression and the list goes on and on.

now farming organically is about 3 times as expensive (and that's a conservative number) as farming commercially. AND....out of season produce, i garauntee you, comes from other countries. the in season products that come from other countries are there because it's literally impossible for American farmers to produce those products for cheaper. their hands are tied. you can only drop the prices so much before you're out of business. which leads me to farm subsidies. what alot of people don't understand is that farming has become ONLY profitable IF it is subsidized. it's a hidden cost that most people aren't aware of. so when you get you paycheck, taxes taken out of your check go to subsidizing agriculture. the consumer is paying for that. THEN.....when you go to the store and you get an orange from Florida.... you're paying for that orange. again! but you're not complaining because that orange was only 50 cents. but how much have you already paid for that orange in the form of tax dollars? so what we have is this illusion of "cheap food" that really, isn't cheap at all. and we have no say in the matter....that's the real kick. AND....it's corps like Walmart that push for those ag subsidies, btw. they practically wrote them. so basically, corps like Walmart are deciding how our tax dollars are being spent for us. i dunno about you, but i kinda have a problem with that.

oohhhh where do i start about the beef? *deep sigh* sooooooo.....once upon a time, in a land far, far away, there were some cows that became steak. i'm just kidding. this stuff depresses me. i need some humor. so what if it wasn't funny. so a couple decades ago there were roughly 5 meat corporations that owned somewhere around 20% of the beef supply...the remaining percentage was privately owned, ie cattle ranchers. today there are 4 that own 80 or 85% of that supply and there are less than six slaughter houses in the country that handles all of the nations commercial beef supply. during this time, monopolies (it's a theme here) emerged in the meat industry and in the name of driving prices down, we now have feedlots, injections, subsidized commercial corn (means it's not fit for human consumption) being fed to cows, and all kinds of shady dealings like cutting labor corners (insert illegal immigrant here) so that Walmart can sell beef at a certain price. see where i'm going with this? production in slaughterhouses have tripled because the beef industry, like the farmers, have to now produce in bulk to turn a profit. they're not making a whole lot of money either, or else they wouldn't need to produce in bulk. feedlots are a nightmare to the environment, as well. it creates a host of disease problems, a host of environmental problems, and it's a system entirely dependent on oil to work. all of which are bad and not sustainable forever.

can i talk about McDonalds for a sec? the "beef" that makes up a McDs patty is actually the bits that are sent to a factory that (is also entirely dependent on oil) specializes in grinding them all up and then spraying it all with ammonia, wrapping it in plastic and shipping it out to your neighborhood drive thru. mmmm delish. a McD's burger bun has a grotesque amount of ingredients in it (like 80 i'm not kidding). i'm using the bun as an example, but that's basically the theme for the entire menu. it's not actually food. it's ....something ...else.....that is designed to taste and look like food. colleges offer degrees in this stuff. you can get a bachelor's in "food sciences" and then go to work for Kraft for 100 grand a year trying to make cheese that will never mold. or a bun that looks like bread but actually isn't. but no one offers a bachelors in sustainable agriculture. coincidence? i think not.

ok what's next. oohhh quality assurance. i love this one. i cannot count how many times there has been a meat (of sort) recall in the past ten years there has been that many. and they've been huge, too...like in the millions of pounds kind of thing....not like oops we dropped a side of beef on the floor and it contaminated 300 pounds of beef, no. millions of pounds. millions! that's an astounding number to me. i think the most recent one was ground turkey. the one that sticks out, though, was the one that woke me up and that was 2 million pounds of ground beef that was recalled and it stopped me cold from buying commercial ground beef and i took my son off the school lunch program. children have died eating commercial beef in america. DIED. so please tell me about quality assurance. i would looooovvveeee to know more and i'm not being sarcastic at all. on side note, the beef industry had legislation passed that actually permits slaughterhouses that keep having "issues" from shutting down while also keeping the public from being able to sue them. i gotta say, i'm not feeling super confident about any quality assurances that might be in place, as you say. cuz....the proof is in the pudding, man. you can't deny that massive and commonly occuring meat recalls in this nation is a good example of quality nor is it very assuring.

[atomiczombie]

For any of you who still shop at Walmart, PLEASE watch this documentary so you can at least be an INFORMED consumer.

Hftb_DVuelo

[Cin]

Occupy the Food System!
by Eric Holt-Giménez and Tanya Kerssen

In the past few weeks, the U.S. Food Movement has made its presence felt in Occupy Wall Street. Voices from food justice organizations across the country are connecting the dots between hunger, diet-related diseases and the unchecked power of Wall Street investors and corporations (See Tom Philppot's excellent article in Mother Jones).

This is very fertile ground.

On one hand, the Food Movement's practical alternatives to industrial food are rooted at the base of our economic system. Its activities are key to building the alternative, localized economies being called for by Occupy Wall Street. On the other hand, Occupy provides a space for the Food Movement to politicize its collective agenda and scale-up community-based solutions by changing the rules that govern local economies.

Of course, in the U.S., what we refer to as the "food movement" is really more of a loose "food network" of non-profit organizations and community groups (CSAs, food policy councils, community gardens, etc) with a sprinkling of bona-fide family farmer organizations and food worker organizations. There's nothing wrong with this. The network has blossomed over the past decade, creating an amazing social infrastructure that is actively using the food system to make us healthier and happier. In the Food Movement we re-learn and re-invent ways of farming, cooking and eating. In doing so, we put back in the social, economic and cultural values robbed by the industrial food system.

But if the community gardens, CSAs, farm-to-school programs and sustainable family farms in the Food Movement are so great why isn't everyone doing it?

The simple answer is, because the rules and institutions governing our food system -- Wall Street, the U.S. Farm Bill, the World Trade Organization and the USDA -- all favor the global monopolies controlling the world's seeds, food processing, distribution and retail. This should come as no surprise, the "revolving door" between government and corporate food monopolies is alive and well, and goes back decades. But it means it's unlikely that the Food Movement's alternatives will ever become the norm rather than the alternative fringe -- unless the Food Movement can change the rules and institutions controlling our food.

To do that, the Food Movement needs politicizing.

Why? Hasn't it worked to improve school food, legalize urban chickens and reform the farm bill? Indeed, it has made important strides in impacting food policy. But many community food organizations have become dependent on the diminishing funding streams from the very foundations that helped them get off the ground. The nation's economic downturn has further affected community organizations, forcing them to tighten belts, cut staff, eliminate programs and compete for scarce resources at a time when communities need them more than ever. This makes them vulnerable to cooptation.

This is not to say that the organizations in the Food Movement don't deserve financial support. They do, and the existence of so many community food organizations is testament to positive cooperation with funders. But a broad-based movement is a different animal than an isolated community organization. For a movement, following a funding stream is the tail wagging the dog. Movements are about creating political will for the benefit of all. They converge, unifying and amplifying popular voices around a shared vision. Politically, movements cannot afford to be disarmed by money, silenced or divided.

A movement to "occupy the food system" will need to put healthy food in our communities and community voices in places of power.

A new, collective decision-making process is being fleshed out at Occupy sites across the country, and in the vibrant conversations on blogs, list servs and social media. It's about more than formulating "demands." As Naomi Klein commented in a recent visit to Food First, "Demands are about negotiation and compromise; this movement is articulating a broader vision." As the food movement moves into the new political spaces being opened up by Occupy Wall Street, a bold vision of food sovereignty is being crafted -- one in which food decisions, food resources and the food dollar are not controlled by Wall Street or by the food monopolies, but by local communities.

This political "convergence in diversity" has the potential to take us from the strategies for survival to strategies for transformation.



Another interesting article-

http://motherjones.com/environment/2011/10/food-industry-monopoly-occupy-wall-street?page=1

[Cin]

JVpoOdz1AKQ&feature

[Cin]

OWS demand introduction of "Robin Hood" tax
Published: 25 October, 2011, 08:41
Edited: 25 October, 2011, 08:41

http://rt.com/files/news/robin-hood-tax-police-641/occupy-2011-demonstrators-protest.n.jpg

Occupy Wall Street activists have called for worldwide protests ahead of Saturday's G20 summit in France, demanding that the G20 leaders introduce a "Robin Hood" tax on high-finance transactions and currency trades by banks and institutions.

Anti-corporate demonstrations are continuing across the US, despite tougher tactics from police, including mass arrests. In Chicago, 130 have been held and charged with camping out in a city park after closing time. Back in New York, where the rallies began over a month ago, dozens have been arrested in a police crackdown on activists in recent days.

Author and activist David Swanson, who has been at the protests in Washington, believes neither the police nor the upcoming cold spell will stop the growing movement.

“We are starting to hear talk from the police again that they are being pushed by someone in the administration higher up to drive us out of there. We’ll see what comes of that. We are not leaving,” he told RT.

“We are protesting not just our government but its funders, its handlers, its think-tanks, and we are building a community and we are making decisions, and we are networking with the other ‘occupy’ movements around the country,” he said. “We’ll see what the police do and what the weather does to these occupations but, you know, the weather won’t shut down half of this country… and there are a lot of people camped out there that have no intention of ever leaving.”

OCTOBER 29 – #ROBINHOOD GLOBAL MARCH

This is a proposal for the general assemblies of the Occupy movement.
Eight years ago, on February 15, 2003, upwards of 15 million people in sixty countries marched together to stop President Bush from invading Iraq … a huge chunk of humanity lived for one day without dead time and glimpsed the power of a united people's movement. Now we have an opportunity to repeat that performance on an even larger scale.

On October 29, on the eve of the G20 Leaders Summit in France, let's the people of the world rise up and demand that our G20 leaders immediately impose a 1% #ROBINHOOD tax on all financial transactions and currency trades. Let's send them a clear message: We want you to slow down some of that $1.3-trillion easy money that's sloshing around the global casino each day – enough cash to fund every social program and environmental initiative in the world.

Take this idea to your local general assembly and join your comrades in the streets on October 29.

for the wild,
Culture Jammers HQ

[Dominique]

JaGG, I hope you are still following us!!

Here is the revised *Obama Home Loan Program* as it was dubbed. I'm glad they did revisit this. (It didn't take long either!)

http://www.governmentrefinanceassistance.com/

[Ebon]

INsxBCtlc20

[Sachita]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=40ijxYVn810&feature=player_embedded#!

40ijxYVn810


Hartmann: What if I prove scientifically that 147 corps run the world?


and if this is true do you really trust food sources, vaccinations and medical research? You can rebel against taxes because its an immediate tangible thing but the picture is much larger then that. Are you going to ignore it and keep on the way you have or become proactive in changing it?

[nowandthen]

Next time one thinks of Vacationing in Hawaii, pause, watch this and reconsider how that supports the occupation of Hawaii.

Part 3: Hawaii vs. U.S. Imperialism - YouTube

[atomiczombie]

I just want to say that it seems like its just a handful of us who are regular posters in this thread, which saddens me. I wish we could get a lot more participation, because this movement is about ALL of us. Perhaps we can each pm our friends and invite them to join us here and participate?

[nowandthen]

http://www.prospect.org/article/occupy-wall-streets-race-problem

[persiphone]

Next time one thinks of Vacationing in Hawaii, pause, watch this and reconsider how that supports the occupation of Hawaii.

Part 3: Hawaii vs. U.S. Imperialism - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9nqDkCzwXeY&feature=share)



i loved this thank you :)

[persiphone]

I just want to say that it seems like its just a handful of us who are regular posters in this thread, which saddens me. I wish we could get a lot more participation, because this movement is about ALL of us. Perhaps we can each pm our friends and invite them to join us here and participate?



i've pointed more than a few people to this thread because the posters here have been doing a great job of consolidating information and updates here. i've even changed some minds about what Occupy represents. they may not be posting, but i'm billing this thread as the go to place to stay updated. it really helped me cuz digging this stuff out of the media rubble is really time consuming. i come here instead so i'm grateful to the posters that are posting. :) i look forward to checking it everyday :)

[Cin]

INsxBCtlc20

This guy is awesome!

[Sachita]

For any of you who still shop at Walmart, PLEASE watch this documentary so you can at least be an INFORMED consumer.

Hftb_DVuelo



this is really great if anyone cares enough to watch it. thanks for posting it

[Cin]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=40ijxYVn810&feature=player_embedded#!

40ijxYVn810


Hartmann: What if I prove scientifically that 147 corps run the world?


and if this is true do you really trust food sources, vaccinations and medical research? You can rebel against taxes because its an immediate tangible thing but the picture is much larger then that. Are you going to ignore it and keep on the way you have or become proactive in changing it?

This was quite interesting. Corporations acting like cancer...

[Ebon]

This was quite interesting. Corporations acting like cancer...

Yeah I love the way he broke it down.

[SoNotHer]

Elizabeth Warren nails it again. Great video. You'll be super charged :-)


wK1MOMKZ8BI

[atomiczombie]

Elizabeth Warren nails it again. Great video. You'll be super charged :-)


wK1MOMKZ8BI

I love Elizabeth Warren. She rocks.

[persiphone]

Elizabeth Warren nails it again. Great video. You'll be super charged :-)


wK1MOMKZ8BI


great vid! and very enlightening, thank you. i'm so engrossed in food issues i'm not up on the specifics of the financial legislation issues.

[SoNotHer]

I know you love that Mother Jones article Miss Tick posted, Persephone (great name for an ag person ;-) It was was one of the coolest things I've read lately.

http://motherjones.com/environment/2011/10/food-industry-monopoly-occupy-wall-street?page=1

great vid! and very enlightening, thank you. i'm so engrossed in food issues i'm not up on the specifics of the financial legislation issues.

[Toughy]

Let's see.........about 5:00am somewhere around 500 police from various jurisdictions around Oakland used tear gas and bean bags fired from shotguns to forcibly remove about 150 folks occupying downtown Oakland. The reasons cited were primarily about health and safety....They arrested about 80 people most of whom were/are cited and released. The protesters are re-grouping right now outside the Oakland Public Library.

You can read all about it at any of the Oakland/SF TV stations and also KPFA free radio has the protesters version.

[atomiczombie]

For everyone who is reading but not participating, I just want to say that your voices are missed here. Even if you don't agree with some of what we are talking about, the Occupy movement is about inclusion and that means everyone, not just the people we agree with. So PLEASE tell us what you are thinking and share your personal stories/points of view. :)

[Ebon]

Let's see.........about 5:00am somewhere around 500 police from various jurisdictions around Oakland used tear gas and bean bags fired from shotguns to forcibly remove about 150 folks occupying downtown Oakland. The reasons cited were primarily about health and safety....They arrested about 80 people most of whom were/are cited and released. The protesters are re-grouping right now outside the Oakland Public Library.

You can read all about it at any of the Oakland/SF TV stations and also KPFA free radio has the protesters version.

The news story I read on said that there were only 17 cops but the video shows different.

[Ebon]

The cops adding fuel to the fire again.


q_SmVnjoA08

8KwRiBge9r4

[ruffryder]

The federal reserves has 1 billion $1 coins. I say we need to use them up! They have cost 300 million to make and they continue making them. The government is wasting money to make money and the taxpayers are paying for it.

"Some 2.4 billion dollar coins have been minted since the start of the program in 2007, costing taxpayers about $720 million. The government has made about $680 million in profit by selling some 1.4 billion dollar coins to the public since the program began."

More of this story can be seen here http://www.npr.org/2011/06/28/137394348/-1-billion-that-nobody-wants

[persiphone]

I know you love that Mother Jones article Miss Tick posted, Persephone (great name for an ag person ;-) It was was one of the coolest things I've read lately.

http://motherjones.com/environment/2011/10/food-industry-monopoly-occupy-wall-street?page=1



thanks for that. great read and horrible at the same time. so it's even worse than i knew. geeez

[julieisafemme]

For everyone who is reading but not participating, I just want to say that your voices are missed here. Even if you don't agree with some of what we are talking about, the Occupy movement is about inclusion and that means everyone, not just the people we agree with. So PLEASE tell us what you are thinking and share your personal stories/points of view. :)

Hey Drew! I have read the whole thread but not commented. The absolute best thing about OWS is that it is getting some people involved in social justice who may never have been so before. That is a great thing.

[greeneyedgrrl]

Thanks for posting Ebon! They have reconvened at OO... anyone know of a live news feed for this? I have a buddy down there and I know they have used tear gas again tonight, and some people have been injured... but can't find a live feed... or even anything from tonight
:(

The cops adding fuel to the fire again.


q_SmVnjoA08

8KwRiBge9r4

[Ebon]

Thanks for posting Ebon! They have reconvened at OO... anyone know of a live news feed for this? I have a buddy down there and I know they have used tear gas again tonight, and some people have been injured... but can't find a live feed... or even anything from tonight
:(

Here you go

live feed occupy oakland (http://www.livestream.com/occupyoakland)

Here is another link as well http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/livenow?id=8405688

[greeneyedgrrl]

thank you! you rock! i am going to repost. :)

[Ebon]

This is a video of the actual tear gas....

It's like a war zone. http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/video?id=8405794

[ruffryder]

Banks are seeking incentives and money from cities to bring jobs to the area.
In Jacksonville, http://jacksonville.com/business/2011-09-27/story/jpmorgan-seeks-incentives-bring-250-jobs-jacksonville

On a positive note, perhaps, Mayor Brown went to Brazil to try and open up the ports for trading.

Is either of these good for cities?

[Ebon]

Atlanta is about to be raided as well. Here is there live stream. So I've heard. I'm going to keep an eye out.

http://www.livestream.com/occupyatlantahttp://www.livestream.com/occupyatlanta

[greeneyedgrrl]

yeah.. it's scary. it isn't that bad where i'm at... but most of the protesters here are middle aged white folks and i think that makes a big difference in the pd's response.. plus it's much smaller here. we're lucky if we get 100 people.

[greeneyedgrrl]

oakland's "finest" gassing a woman in a wheelchair
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10150373498622416&set=a.10150095655212416.279917.807242415&type=1&theater

[Ebon]

Well they cut the live feed from fox then turned it back on 5 minutes after everything happened.

[nowandthen]

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=237706202950462

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=237706202950462

[Ebon]

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=237706202950462

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=237706202950462

THANK YOU!!!

[nowandthen]

http://www.change.org/petitions/demand-mayor-jean-quan-stop-the-police-repression-of-occupy-oakland

[greeneyedgrrl]

mayor jean quan's statement on police action today... she characterizes it as "generally peaceful"... gotta wonder what "downright violent" looks like in her world.

https://www.facebook.com/MayorJeanQuan/posts/291025897588660

[greeneyedgrrl]

grrrrr. :censor:
Well they cut the live feed from fox then turned it back on 5 minutes after everything happened.

[Ebon]

mayor jean quan's statement on police action today... she characterizes it as "generally peaceful"... gotta wonder what "downright violent" looks like in her world.

https://www.facebook.com/MayorJeanQuan/posts/291025897588660

I can't even believe she said that shit.

[greeneyedgrrl]

right?!?? :wtf:
I can't even believe she said that shit.

[SoNotHer]

Unbelievable. Guess we're finding out what it feels to live in an American-occupied country.

A friend just wrote me that there are a lot of tents and protestors in SF - the most she's ever seen.

oakland's "finest" gassing a woman in a wheelchair
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10150373498622416&set=a.10150095655212416.279917.807242415&type=1&theater

[greeneyedgrrl]

so pissed i'm not there :/
Unbelievable. Guess we're finding out what it feels to live in an American-occupied country.

A friend just wrote me that there are a lot of tents and protestors in SF - the most she's ever seen.

[persiphone]

This is a video of the actual tear gas....

It's like a war zone. http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/video?id=8405794



no it IS a war zone. except the people being fired on aren't armed.

[AtLast]

What I am not understanding about what is going on in Oakland (a few miles South of me) is that the whole sanitation thing has been handled differently across many of the OWS protest areas across the states. In NYC, those protesting cleaned up the area themselves and all involved (demonstrators, city hall and police & fire) worked through these issues in a peaceful manner. There are usual and customary and scheduled cleaning methods used by towns and cities to keep parks clean and stop the spread of disease. These duties are performed by public employees that need their jobs.

I do just as a citizen have some issues about actual camps being set up in parks without having sanitation facilities also being set up along with people not littering or taking park space from usual visitors. for example, many elderly people gather to play chess and checkers in public parks and socialize on an every day basis. They ought to be able to use a public park in this way without being shoved out due to the protests.

I think that in some cases (not all), that homeless people are joining in because it is a way to set up a tent somewhere and blend in- and actually be in a safer (and warmer at night) environment. And no, I am not saying that all homeless people would not be part of such protests. Hell, there is a rise in homelessness that comes along with such high unemployment rates. Also, there are never enough beds or enough meals for the homeless as it is as provided by organizations that offer help to them.

I have been in many, many protests through the years and organizing sanitation as well as emergency contingency plans ate critical for long term protests. usually, permits are required that call for these kinds of contingencies. The fact is that hundreds of people in one area does pose health issues if things are not done to prevent these problems via public health practices.

There have been many nearby businesses in Oakland that do not want to continue to have non-customers use their restrooms. They have a right to feel this way as they are the ones that clean and maintain their restrooms and also want their restrooms to be used by customers.

I back this movement and want it to grow into something that effects voting and change that reflects the 99%. I don't want violent outbreaks in which people are injured, including police officers.

I don't get why the Oakland demonstrators and all involved couldn't come up with some of the same procedures as the NYC people did that made it so that the park was cleaned and the demonstrations could go on. Why not have an agreed amount of time that demonstrators leave and the cleaning is done- and also demonstrators making sure trash and litter is picked up?

I am also wondering about how at first, OWS participants came to designated areas and protested, then went home.. then came back on a daily basis. people were really rotating in and out of the protests, not living there.

Just seems like there are solutions available so that violence does not break out. I could not have all of the facts about the Oakland situation, however. I do know that if a group took over the dog park I use everyday in a way that I could not use it as a citizen, I wouldn’t like it. I have gone over to SF and participated in OWS, and then came home. I will do this again. Yet, so many people have lost their homes and jobs throughout all that has gone on with the 1% screwing common people, setting up tent cities may be a much more pointed way to draw attention to what has happened to so many… having to live in tents or cars and losing jobs.

[Nat]

I identify with and agree with the protesters on pretty much all I've heard, though I haven't followed the protests closely enough to offer any insights here that haven't already been offered.

I think the term "Occupy" wasn't the best term due to US history and present of occupation.

It doesn't surprise me that some groups are more organized than others. Protests often inconvenience people - but I don't think I'd mind much if I were inconvenienced. (Not a single Occupy Temple protestor, I'm afraid).

I've been to protests that last an evening - maybe a late-afternoon til midnight. In those cases, all I had to do was show up (in Sacramento, protesting Prop 8 just after it was passed). These were not super-planned, but they weren't forever-protests. We went home, went to bed, and went about our business the next day. I'm impressed people are able to hold out so long. These sort of protests taking place require a support network - not just people who show up. My impression is the original protest was extremely well-planned, and probably has the most *professional* protestors. (I have a few friends who - though neither would claim the title - would qualify as professional. They are a bit snotty when regular folks attempt to protest - with no experience, no direction, etc. Anyway, they know the drill, they know what they'll need, they know to pick up after themselves, they are super-trained for dealing with cops, they understand the resources for support, the network of couches to surf, lawyers willing to support them if needed. They are well-practiced and well-trained). Anyway, I think regular folks just show up and there is no training and no preparation - and that's okay if you're talking about an afternoon or evening of protest. If protestors need more support in some areas, then they need more support.

I hope I'm making sense - I just woke up. I wanted to write last night, but ended up reading and watching the youtubes posted here. It was nice to hear Naomi Wolf talk - haven't heard her in a while.

I took a sociology class in college - "the sociology of deviance." I thought it was going to be nice and juicy, but instead the entire class focused on corporate deviance with an eye to Enron. I found the reading extreeeeemely tedious. But, I'm glad now I took the class. I wish I'd retained more of what I read. I am glad so many people can be so motivated for such a long period of time to protest what has been a long history of corporate crime, violation and injury at the expense of those who can least recover from it.

I hear alarm bells with people switching their banks on November 5th. When I think of masses of people withdrawing money from a bank, when you know they don't have the cash at hand to pay for it, it just reminds me of that Mary Poppins scene about the run on the bank. I am somewhat concerned that certain actions could plunge us into a (worse) depression and there might be a certain element of cutting-off-our-noses-to-spite-our-faces going on. The banks deserve it, but I do wonder what the long-term ramifications will be for people.

I think it's shitty anywhere it's illegal to be homeless.

[persiphone]

i've come to the conclusion that i'm against the idea of having to get a (or 47) permit(s) to protest. free speech and freedom to assemble has become a victim to overpermitization. (is that a word?) especially in areas that the public pays for. it's a little ridiculous and it's the grounds Naomi was arrested on.

about the name. i understand the issue with the name. however, i couldn't care less if they called it Shit On A Stick, as long as it invokes positive changes.

[Dominique]

The *Occupied Cities* seem to all be different. Albeit, the cause is the same. Tent city, here in Pgh. is less than 20 tents. Ironic that the small patch of grass they are [occupying] is owned by Mellon Bank (part of BNY). Mellon Bank has given them permission to be there. The area is clean. I haven't heard of this being an issue. The majority of the people go home each night and return each day. Some, like me, have jobs and other things going on and can only participate on a limited basis. Therefore, the size of the crowds vary. The Pgh. Police are near by but have not interrupted any of the demonstrations. All have been described as *peaceful*. The ACLU has been on the television saying it is keeping a watchful eye on what is going on.

The messages are getting out. There are plenty. I don't think there is a right way or a wrong way. As long as this movement is getting peoples attention. Giving people something to think about. This entire state is in extreme financial hardship, Harrisburg, our Capitol, may not be able to pay it's bills until the end of the year. Lot's of people are loosing jobs because of Goverment free wheeling. People want answers. Tent cities send a message.

[Ebon]

i've come to the conclusion that i'm against the idea of having to get a (or 47) permit(s) to protest. free speech and freedom to assemble has become a victim to overpermitization. (is that a word?) especially in areas that the public pays for. it's a little ridiculous and it's the grounds Naomi was arrested on.

about the name. i understand the issue with the name. however, i couldn't care less if they called it Shit On A Stick, as long as it invokes positive changes.

Here is their permit.

"When in the Course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."

Moving on.

[SoNotHer]

From Zinn's A People's History of the United States -

http://www.historyisaweapon.com/defcon1/zinnselhel15.html

These people were becoming "dangerous," as Steinbeck said. The spirit of rebellion was growing. Mauritz Hallgren, in a 1933 book, Seeds of Revolt, compiled newspaper reports of things happening around the country:

England, Arkansas, January 3, 1931. The long drought that ruined hundreds of Arkansas farms last summer had a dramatic sequel late today when some 500 farmers, most of them white men and many of them armed, marched on the business section of this town. .. . Shouting that they must have food for themselves and their families, the invaders announced their intention to take it from the stores unless it were provided from some other source without cost.

Detroit, July 9, 1931. An incipient riot by 500 unemployed men turned out of the city lodging house for lack of funds was quelled by police reserves in Cadillac Square tonight. . ..

Indiana Harbor, Indiana, August 5, 1931. Fifteen hundred jobless men stormed the plant of the Fruit Growers Express Company here, demanding that they be given jobs to keep from starving. The company's answer was to call the city police, who routed the jobless with menacing clubs.

Boston, November 10, 1931. Twenty persons were treated for injuries, three were hurt so seriously that they may die, and dozens of others were nursing wounds from flying bottles, lead pipe, and stones after clashes between striking longshoremen and Negro strikebreakers along the Charlestown-East Boston waterfront.

Detroit, November 28, 1931. A mounted patrolman was hit on the head with a stone and unhorsed and one demonstrator was arrested during a disturbance in Grand Circus Park this morning when 2000 men and women met there in defiance of police orders.

Chicago, April 1, 1932. Five hundred school children, most with haggard faces and in tattered clothes, paraded through Chicago's downtown section to the Board of Education offices to demand that the school system provide them with food.

Boston, June 3, 1932. Twenty-five hungry children raided a buffet lunch set up for Spanish War veterans during a Boston parade. Two automobile-loads of police were called to drive them away.

New York, January 21, 1933. Several hundred jobless surrounded a restaurant just off Union Square today demanding they be fed without charge.. . .

Seattle, February 16, 1933. A two-day siege of the County-City Building, occupied by an army of about 5,000 unemployed, was ended early tonight, deputy sheriffs and police evicting the demonstrators after nearly two hours of efforts.

Yip Harburg, the songwriter, told Studs Terkel about the year 1932: "I was walking along the street at that time, and you'd see the bread lines. The biggest one in New York City was owned by William Randolph Hearst. He had a big truck with several people on it, and big cauldrons of hot soup, bread. Fellows with burlap on their feet were lined up all around Columbus Circle, and went for blocks and blocks around the park, waiting." Harburg had to write a song for the show Americana. He wrote "Brother, Can You Spare a Dime?"

Once in khaki suits.

Gee, we looked swell,

Full of that Yankee Doodle-de-dum.

Half a million boots went sloggin' through Hell,

I was the kid with the drum.

Say, don't you remember, they called me Al-

It was Al all the time.

Say, don't you remember I'm your pal-

Brother, can you spare a dime?

[dreadgeek]

I just want to say that it seems like its just a handful of us who are regular posters in this thread, which saddens me. I wish we could get a lot more participation, because this movement is about ALL of us. Perhaps we can each pm our friends and invite them to join us here and participate?

Drew:

My reasons for being uncharacteristically quiet on this thread are covered pretty well in this post at HuffPo by the law professor Lawrence Lessig:

[begin his words]
Here's the fact about America: It takes an insanely large majority to make any fundamental change. You want Citizens United reversed, it is going to take 75% of states to do it. You want public funding of public elections? It's going to take 67 Senators to get it. You want to end the corruption that makes it impossible to get any of the things liberals push? It's going to take a broad based movement that cuts across factions, whether right (as in correct) or Right (as in not Left).

It's great to rally the 99%. It is a relief to have such a clear and powerful slogan. But explain this, because I'm a lawyer, and not so great with numbers: Gallup's latest poll finds 41% of Americans who call themselves "conservative." 36% call themselves "moderate." Liberals account for 21%. In a different poll, Gallup finds 30% of Americans who "support" the Tea Party.

So who exactly are we not allowed to work with, Dave? 30% of America? 41% of America? All but 21% of America? And when you exclude 30%, or 41%, or 79% of Americans, how exactly are you left with 99%?

Talk about wanting to have it "both ways"! How can you claim to speak for 99% but refuse to talk to 30%? (And just to be clear: the 30% of Americans who support the Tea Party are not the 1% "superrich." I checked. With a calculator.)

And finally as to one of the commentators on Dave's essay who finds me "poisonous," and said I said: "OWS needs to drop the 'We are the 99%' slogan because it might hurt the feelings of the rich." What I said was not that the movement should give up the slogan 99% because it offended. I said it should instead talk about the 99.95%. That's the percentage of Americans who did not max out in giving in the last Congressional election. That is the percentage that becomes invisible in the money-feeding-fest that is DC.

So if you really want to rally the 99%, you might begin by identifying those things that 99% might actually agree about. That the 30% of Americans who call themselves "supporters" of the Tea Party are racists is not a statement likely to garner the support of at least that 30%. (And again, as ABC found, it's not even true).

On the other hand, 99% of America should be perfectly willing to agree that a system in which the top 1% -- or better, .05% -- have more power to direct public policy than do the 99% or 99.95% is wrong. And must be changed. Before this nation can again call itself a democracy (for those on the Left) or a Republic (for those on the Right). This "Republic," by which the Framers meant a "representative democracy," by which they intended a body "dependent upon the People ALONE," is not.

That, too, must change. Meaning, in addition to all the things we Liberals want, we must change that as well. And my view is that if we changed that corruption first, we might actually find it a bit easier to get those other things too.

[end his words]
-----------------------

I am a Liberal but I'm a Liberal that does not believe I am living on 'occupied' land. I am living on land taken by conquest over a century ago but that cannot be changed and so to call America 'occupied' land is to make me a foreigner in my own country, the only country my family has known since at least the early 19th century. I've read a number of OWS statements that were decidedly anti-capitalist. Some of the stuff at People of Color Organize invokes the 'petty bourgeois' and speaks of destroying capitalism. This turns me off for two reasons.

As a college educated professional, I am the 'petty bourgeois' which has to be 'swept aside' in order for the poor and working-class to be free. Secondly, there is simply no way to have a *socialist* society without seriously restricting freedom and liberty. We can have social democracy but we cannot have socialism. I have also noted that skeptical or dissenting voices are written off not caring or being fine with the ways things are. I think that people of goodwill can disagree with certain rhetorical flourishes (presuming that the people using that rhetoric mean it) while still agreeing that the system is skewed toward the rich and that this creates injustice which leads to instability.

I don't want to create a socialist utopia because I know of no better way to create a dystopia than to try to create a utopia. I would argue that one of the causes of our current suffering is that the Right has been pursuing a libertarian utopia. I want to create a society where someone who is born into poverty can get an education, find themselves a job, work their way up a career ladder and perhaps retire as solidly middle-class. I want to *expand* the ranks of the 'petty bourgeois' not see them swept away.

Right now, I'm seeing the Left talk to the Left and only certain segments of the Left at that! I do not see anything that leads me to believe that people of the Right (of which I am not) are welcome nor have I heard or read anything here to make me believe that Liberals (as opposed to radicals) are at all welcome, that our voices would be heard, that our ideas would be given due consideration, or that our experiences would be considered at all worth listening to. I might be wrong but I've been reading this thread since the very beginning and I don't see a great deal that leads me to believe otherwise.

Lessig is right, we are the 99% is a great slogan. The problem is is that there isn't a concerted effort to bring most of that 99% into the fold.

Cheers
Aj

[AtLast]

I identify with and agree with the protesters on pretty much all I've heard, though I haven't followed the protests closely enough to offer any insights here that haven't already been offered.

I think the term "Occupy" wasn't the best term due to US history and present of occupation.

It doesn't surprise me that some groups are more organized than others. Protests often inconvenience people - but I don't think I'd mind much if I were inconvenienced. (Not a single Occupy Temple protestor, I'm afraid).

I've been to protests that last an evening - maybe a late-afternoon til midnight. In those cases, all I had to do was show up (in Sacramento, protesting Prop 8 just after it was passed). These were not super-planned, but they weren't forever-protests. We went home, went to bed, and went about our business the next day. I'm impressed people are able to hold out so long. These sort of protests taking place require a support network - not just people who show up. My impression is the original protest was extremely well-planned, and probably has the most *professional* protestors. (I have a few friends who - though neither would claim the title - would qualify as professional. They are a bit snotty when regular folks attempt to protest - with no experience, no direction, etc. Anyway, they know the drill, they know what they'll need, they know to pick up after themselves, they are super-trained for dealing with cops, they understand the resources for support, the network of couches to surf, lawyers willing to support them if needed. They are well-practiced and well-trained). Anyway, I think regular folks just show up and there is no training and no preparation - and that's okay if you're talking about an afternoon or evening of protest. If protestors need more support in some areas, then they need more support.

I hope I'm making sense - I just woke up. I wanted to write last night, but ended up reading and watching the youtubes posted here. It was nice to hear Naomi Wolf talk - haven't heard her in a while.

I took a sociology class in college - "the sociology of deviance." I thought it was going to be nice and juicy, but instead the entire class focused on corporate deviance with an eye to Enron. I found the reading extreeeeemely tedious. But, I'm glad now I took the class. I wish I'd retained more of what I read. I am glad so many people can be so motivated for such a long period of time to protest what has been a long history of corporate crime, violation and injury at the expense of those who can least recover from it.

I hear alarm bells with people switching their banks on November 5th. When I think of masses of people withdrawing money from a bank, when you know they don't have the cash at hand to pay for it, it just reminds me of that Mary Poppins scene about the run on the bank. I am somewhat concerned that certain actions could plunge us into a (worse) depression and there might be a certain element of cutting-off-our-noses-to-spite-our-faces going on. The banks deserve it, but I do wonder what the long-term ramifications will be for people.

I think it's shitty anywhere it's illegal to be homeless.


I feel like you might be jumping to a negative conclusion about what I was trying to get across about how there needs to be responsibility taken for "occupying" any public space and respect for what we all do in these spaces. I really appreciated the NYC groups recognizing that when we band together and exercise our right to protest, we do need to consider how our actions could impact public health & safety. Plus, how do we make the protest space safe and healthy for all of us protesting? There are ways to do this and continue to put OWS front and center so that our grievances are addressed.

I don't like police using tear gas, bean bag "bullets" on citizens that are airing their grievances peacefully. And what I was saying had to do with how these conflicts can be better addressed.

I have worked with homeless programs in the past and it is a huge social problem with many of these people not getting medical (and mental health care) care along with decent nutrition and the ability to stay warm in winter or cool in heat waves. I spent quite a few years in public service as a social worker. Personally, I feel we all are responsible for challenging the reasons for homelessness and have no problem with tax dollars being spent on homeless programs. In fact, I would like to see more spent on dealing with the challenges of homelessness.

There needs to be a balance between not infringing on the rights of others (the very 99% that uses these public areas- rich people go to private gyms, for examples and bring their kids to private day care, not the city parks) and having a consistent protest movement. Public parks, especially in large cities, offer people many forms of relaxation and exercise areas that are inexpensive and are at the heart of where we can congregate and do need to be kept clean and sanitary for public health reasons.

At the center of this is how to groom good relations that help bring people into this movement and begin to take action against the entities that the protests are pointing out. Getting to the goals of prosecution of Wall Street predatory lenders and actually seeing our government utilize the new regulatory legislation that was passed by Congress. Getting results.

As much as I hate to say this, I did see public urination in SF during a protest I went to there. Now my guess is that the guy that did it does all of the time, yet, this is what will be first on the news stations owned by Faux News to incite negative feelings about the entire OWS movement. Wouldn't it be better to have organized measures to have porta-potties in place? He also needs help.

I also believe that it might be more effective to have well planned, major events country-wide on specified dates. That way, the numbers of people protesting would be much larger and numbers in these things do matter in terms of impact. This could be a very influential movement in the coming general elections across the US if large protests are in place during the Summer and fall before the election. In fact, getting the OWS agendas to be part of the presidential debates during the general election campaign season is imperative for action. Including actions that might stop the number of people that will be tossed out of their homes.

This movement needs to grow and befriend a multitude of people in order to bring about the changes needed to protect the 99% just as the anti-Vietnam War protests did. With good organization and communication, that protest movement influenced congressional leaders to look at what we were doing in Vietnam and get us the hell out of there. This took quite a bit of time, but finally broke through a diversity of people in the US from liberals to conservatives. Which is needed here. Standing as one no matter if you vote Democrat, Republican or Independent is essential to get the changes we need and be heard.

I don’t like what is going on in Oakland because I am afraid that people will get hurt and that doesn’t have to happen. There are members of the Oakland City Council that support these protests but they also have duties to the entire city and are responsible for public health and welfare. Let's make it easier for them to back the protests. Although, the Oakland PD has a long history with unjust treatment of citizens and the chief just resigned due to the lack of support of city officials that were promised. There is some tension there that is not related to OWS.

Of course homelessness should not be viewed as illegal.

[Ebon]

PC8UEOh1vG4

[Ebon]

Austin still going strong even after this incident. I love the way the news handled it.

HbGDv7usmv0

[ruffryder]

.. almost Halloween, it could get scary!

Friday the 28th is National Walk Out of School Day for OWS. 12:30 p.m. nationwide. Time for students and teachers to show their outrage with a walkout and a protest. This is slated for schools across the nation. Who will attend?

Remove inflation. The cause for holding students hostage with the debt of education. Be protected by the Bill of Rights. Assemble peacefully and occupy public space. Take a stand together against the 1%, have a right to free speech, protest, and make your voice heard in your country and in your streets. Occupy it.

[Ebon]

I am part of the 99%. I hope this all brings about some change and unifies those of us who pay more taxes for less representation. I hope it helps people like my mother understand that we are owned by corporations and the Republicans are not our saviors.

With that said. Our "Occupy Portland Camp" smells like reefer and Patcchuli and seems to be made up of young white folks with enough middle class privilege that they can afford to camp out in the middle of the city.

That kind of sucks. I know the one in NYC wasn't allowing drugs or alcohol, not that I ever think of reefer(I haven't heard this term used since 1982) as a drug. Patchouli I expected. lol At most of the other camps I've seen people from all walks of life. Older people, young people, students, union workers etc...

[ruffryder]

I thought this article was interesting on the connection between food stamps and JPMorgan or banks.

http://theeconomiccollapseblog.com/archives/the-more-americans-that-go-on-food-stamps-the-more-money-jp-morgan-makes

[Toughy]

yahoo photos.....about 2/3 through the 27 pics you will see what it looked like before the police 'evicted' them. Looks very neat and orderly to me.

http://news.yahoo.com/photos/police-arrest-75-protesters-at-oakland-s-city-hall-1319580771-slideshow/occupy-wall-street-protesters-run-tear-gas-deployed-photo-072926256.html#crsl=%252Fphotos%252Fpolice-arrest-75-protesters-at-oakland-s-city-hall-1319580771-slideshow%252Foccupy-wall-street-protesters-run-tear-gas-deployed-photo-072926256.html

I'm not buying the health and safety crap. KPFA....it's free radio...gave voice to the Occupy folks. They all seemed knowlegeable about food safey and health stuff. There are plenty of ways to safely deal with human waste. Camping toliets are fabulous things. These folks are not dirty nasty sub humans who want to wallow in human and rat piss and shit. Rats are everywhere in downtown Oakland as they are in every frigging city in the country.

If the Health Department had concerns they could have simply asked to talk to the folks in charge of the kitchen and work with them to make corrections IF needed.

Occupy Oakland and Occupy SF are well organized with every kind of committee you can think of..I know SF even has a gender issues point person.....they have regular open meetings. They are serious folks about the issues.

Oh yes there are probably some asshats.....always have been and always will be.......however they are no where no way the majority of the 99% folks.

[Toughy]

That kind of sucks. I know the one in NYC wasn't allowing drugs or alcohol, not that I ever think of reefer(I haven't heard this term used since 1982) as a drug. Patchouli I expected. lol At most of the other camps I've seen people from all walks of life. Older people, young people, students, union workers etc...

come on............it's Portland..........laughin......about the most white bread city in the country.......:toypony:

As to reefer....I smell it every day on the streets anyway....medical marijuana is alive and well and on the streets in the Bay...

I didn't read the rules at the camps, but I would imagine no booze, no illegal drugs, no cigarettes/cigars would be the norm and probably no weapons except for knives. Smoking a bowl of bud is another thing.

[Dean Thoreau]

Unfortunately, Occupy Wall St has been occupying privately owned property not a public park, not a city park,....The owner of the land has told them they will be evicted..and they need to move. They have done neither so they have been evicted.
Please do not take this for my lack of support for occupy wall street...I am extremely supportive of all occupy movements across the country i spend much time here at the occupy philly one....

But, having a legal leg to stand on is usually a smart idea. and there is such a thing as trespassing....I dont like it,,,I am glad the city of philadlephia has been absolutely wonderful...they have even supplied some electric lines form city hall...However, the people who own our old liberty park are not as open minded nor do they want the occupiers on their property. Sad ,, but nothing to get ones bloomers in a bunch about,,There are plenty of places in the wall street area to occupy, march and stroll...If they would put their signs down they could occupy the nyse visitors section for a day....or so...Peaceful gatherings as in occupiers walking 2 by 2 down wall street sidewalks very very slowly, in silence, no signs...(see with no signs and in silence then it is just people walking) walk slow enough and you can cause major bedlam on that street.... and bluntly a few stalled out vehicles....in opportune places can make quite a statement....
The biggest point is however, the occupiers have started something good, but for it to continue each individual in the 98% needs to take responsibility for their own actions and say enough is enough and cut up the credit cards, close the bank account, open a credit union account, and start cutting their shackles to corporate America by buying locally, not buying on credit, and by simply saying I dont need it...I dont want it....none of us need the new fancy cellphone or the latest computer, or 4 00 channels on tv or the latest shoes, purse or jeans....we want so we say need....and until every person stops supporting the 2% with their need for immediate material gratification,,all the occupations in the world will do nothing..

Read this..... and I promise you will see what I am saying..

http://www.forbes.com/sites/brendancoffey/2011/10/26/the-four-companies-that-control-the-147-companies-that-own-everything/

[ruffryder]

what to do if you're arrested for participating in OWS.

Although there may not be any justification for an arrest and you don't like the way you are treated, you should always remain calm. Physically resisting arrest will be worse for you. You have the right to remain silent and you have the right to refuse consent for a search.

Most of the arrests for OWS are falling under disorderly conduct. It can be different for each state, but they are along those lines, impeding traffic, failure to disperse, creating annoyance, loitering, etc. It could result in a misdemeanor charge, jail time and a criminal record. Once out of jail, if you continue to OWS and another arrest happens, it could bring harsher penalties each time.

Understand your rights however. Here is a link that goes over your rights if you're stopped by police, including asking if you are free to leave and writing a complaint and contacting your local ACLU if you feel your rights are violated.

http://www.aclu.org/drug-law-reform-immigrants-rights-racial-justice/know-your-rights-what-do-if-you

[AtLast]

i've come to the conclusion that i'm against the idea of having to get a (or 47) permit(s) to protest. free speech and freedom to assemble has become a victim to overpermitization. (is that a word?) especially in areas that the public pays for. it's a little ridiculous and it's the grounds Naomi was arrested on.

about the name. i understand the issue with the name. however, i couldn't care less if they called it Shit On A Stick, as long as it invokes positive changes.


I see your point about permits and I also want safety for all as well as sanitary conditions to exist at protests. Sometimes someone gets sick and needs an ambulance. There has to be a way for the ambulance to get to them and get them on their way to a hospital, for example.

And I don't see a problem with having demonstrators disperse for public works employees to do their clean up jobs. Parks are continually maintained and cleaned by these kinds of departments and power washing is used all of the time. Then, everyone can come back.

I don't agree with the camping out as it leads to many more sanitation problems. For everyone- and disease is spread this way. There are many people including homeless folks that do not have good healthcare (one of our complaints), have compromised immune systems or other chronic illness in which contracting stash or hepatitis is more likely, thus, potentially threatening the health of others. This just happens in large crowd situations no matter who the people gathering are.

In a socially democratic society, we care about the health and well being of others. So, in exercising our rights to protest for the "good of the common people," shouldn't we consider how to best control the spread of germs, etc.?

LOL, yes, I am a germ-phobe, although it comes naturally as a person with an audio-immune cluster that I know compromises me in these kinds of situations. I wash my hands a lot! Don't even think about eating off of my plate or sharing a beverage. And if someone is coughing or sneezing, I'm gone. It isn't just a common cold that I could get. And I am just one of millions of people in the US dealing with this. I will be a real mess if I have to evacuate to a dorm situation or tent city during an earthquake! Consider the fact that homeless people may very well have poor health and not be able to fight off a common cold or become very ill with a flu strain. They don't even get decent general medical care as it is and most that have mental illnesses are not on needed medications in any consistent manner. They are at high risk.

It looks like in Oakland, the demonstrators are free to come back to the park after it is cleaned. However, they will not be allowed to camp-out or demonstrate after dark. I agree with Aj on the whole occupied land thing and the fact that unless one is Native American, they don't really have a right to take over any public space.

Does anyone know if these are now common procedures that are being put in place in other cities in the US where there are OWS protests. Also, have there been more efforts get a balance between the demonstrators and the jobs public works employees need to do with maintaining a public park. Frankly, I don't see the need for violence on either side of this if cool heads prevail. There have to be common sense solutions to keeping this peaceful and safe so that the real points of this assembly is realized.

I was arrested more than once back in the 70's while protesting- and I usually caught a cold after protesting. It's kind of like going into a classroom with a bunch of little kids with runny noses. Back then I didn't have the same health concerns, however. I am still going to some of these, but I won't be setting up camp.

[dreadgeek]

Ruffryder:

You bring up some interesting points that I wish were given more due consideration. One of the books I read in the last six months (I think it was Matt Ridley's The Rational Optimist) had a discussion about local sourcing and while it seems like a great idea, it actually can create quite a bit of price inflation. Someone back east set out to create a men's suit using only materials that could be obtained within 50 miles of her home. To be fair she started absolutely from scratch and, if memory serves (I don't have the book with me at work) a suit that would have cost maybe $150 - $200 at a local clothing store was close to $1000 when all was said and done. Another book I'm currently reading (Steven Pinker's The Better Angels of Our Nature) brings up a really interesting point about trade and that is that it appears to create a more peaceful world. Why bomb someone at great expense when you can trade with them and get the things they have that you want at a fraction of the cost?

People who have studied how humans have become less violent over time (and despite what you might think humans are *far* less violent now then even a century ago) have noted two things. Trading partners tend not to go to war with one another and democracies tend not to go to war with one another. So while the idea of local sourcing and buying local might seem like an intuitively obvious idea, it may turn out that there are hidden costs. This is NOT a defense of globalization nor is it a defense of unregulated capitalism.

Another problem I see with our quickness to grasp onto local sourcing and buying local as a panacea is that it ignores what happens when trade is diminished. Let's say you live someplace where there's plenty of minerals but not a lot of good farmland. I live someplace where there's not a lot of minerals but lots of farmland. Now, if you trade your surplus minerals with me and I trade my surplus food with you, you have the food you can't grow yourself and I have the minerals I can't dig out of the ground. But what happens if I stop trading with you? Well, I still have all this food but I don't need to grow as much anymore. If I'm no longer selling for a large market, I don't need all the extra hands around. So I lay them off. Likewise, since you don't need nearly as many miners if you aren't trying to get enough minerals out of the ground to trade for other goods you lay them off. Now, we've done the right thing and we've shrunk our footprint. We are now only doing business locally but we're doing *less* business. Every person I lay off is one person who doesn't have money to stop by the bar and buy a couple of beers after a hard day. Every person you lay off is someone who isn't going to eat at the diner during their lunch hour. So the diner lays off someone. That person isn't going to go to the tailor and buy a new dress. So the tailor lays off someone. That person isn't going to be buying a car from the used car dealership, so they lay off someone.

We can't say that the economy doesn't behave that way because, in fact, we are in a recession *precisely* because the economy *does* behave that way. There's a crisis on Wall Street and businesses either fold or contract. The people who lose their jobs aren't spending at the lunch counters, bars and little shops surrounding the business districts so some of those businesses also fold. People who keep their jobs seriously contract their spending in case they are the next one's to get a layoff notice. More jobs are lost. And the cycle feeds on itself.

This is why I am so very, very frustrated that the GOP is pretending that a Keynesian stimulus would be nothing but a waste of money and energy. If people are hired to start repairing schools, bridges and roads those will be construction workers who have money in their pocket. Knowing that it's going to take a while to do the job and there'll be more work because there's a lot of roads to be repaired and schools to be updated, so they spend at the bar or the tailor or what-have-you. That is part of what is wrong is that the government, the spender of last resort, isn't able to do infrastructure projects NOT because there's no money but because our politics is broken.

I understand the arguments in favor of buying local and to some degree I think that's good. My wife and I, for instance, have committed to not eating out of season so there won't be bananas in January for us. On a limited scale this works and as an act of conscience I applaud it. However, I think that we need to be mindful of the ripple effects of economic actions. What might seem to be a self-evidently great idea may, in light of deeper reflection, have hidden costs that may be higher than we should want to pay.

How many here would be willing to have the cost of most everything--certainly their electronics, clothing and food--to double? Triple? Would this really help the poor if suddenly a $700 bare-bones laptop suddenly became a $2100 laptop because every component had to be made within 100 miles? What about those objects that have no physicality? Do we local source that stuff as well? When I upgraded to OS X Lion I didn't touch a DVD, I downloaded it. I don't know nor do I care *where* those bits came from. Should we local source those items like software, books and music that have no physicality to them?

Cheers
Aj

Easier said than done, shop local. Do not shop Wal-Mart or go to McDonald's. You can only shop local if there is local farmers. There are not a lot! I went to a local grocery store, but guess what, it gets it's food from the same place Wal-Mart does and it was more expensive. Farmers sell their product to Wal-Mart and other major grocery stores because there is money in it for them. Why sit outside at a farmer's market all day and hope for someone to buy their stuff when a grocery chain will buy in bulk and take all the crop. I worked wholesale meat and produce for 8 years. We bought bulk from farmers and sold to grocery stores, restaurants, and schools. So farmers stuff does actually make it into stores and around town and stays in the U.S. McDonalds buys their beef from local farmers. . . I also worked 6 years in beef production. We got our cattle from local feed lots, slaughtered them, cleaned them up and distributed the meat to McDonalds and other major restaurants and grocery chains. We even shipped to Japan and handled organic meat for the customers that wanted it. I worked Quality Assurance so I know what is in the meat and how safe it is when it comes out of a meat plant. I have taken many tours from where the cattle comes from to how it is slaughtered, packaged, and shipped. You may not want to shop Wal-Mart or McDonalds, however you should research where they actually get their product from because some of it is from local farmers and from the U.S. We may not like McDonalds and Wal-Mart but they do provide many jobs for people in the U.S. Just a thought..

[dreadgeek]

Unfortunately, Occupy Wall St has been occupying privately owned property not a public park, not a city park,....The owner of the land has told them they will be evicted..and they need to move. They have done neither so they have been evicted.
Please do not take this for my lack of support for occupy wall street...I am extremely supportive of all occupy movements across the country i spend much time here at the occupy philly one....

But, having a legal leg to stand on is usually a smart idea. and there is such a thing as trespassing....I dont like it,,,I am glad the city of philadlephia has been absolutely wonderful...they have even supplied some electric lines form city hall...However, the people who own our old liberty park are not as open minded nor do they want the occupiers on their property. Sad ,, but nothing to get ones bloomers in a bunch about,,There are plenty of places in the wall street area to occupy, march and stroll...If they would put their signs down they could occupy the nyse visitors section for a day....or so...Peaceful gatherings as in occupiers walking 2 by 2 down wall street sidewalks very very slowly, in silence, no signs...(see with no signs and in silence then it is just people walking) walk slow enough and you can cause major bedlam on that street.... and bluntly a few stalled out vehicles....in opportune places can make quite a statement....
The biggest point is however, the occupiers have started something good, but for it to continue each individual in the 98% needs to take responsibility for their own actions and say enough is enough and cut up the credit cards, close the bank account, open a credit union account, and start cutting their shackles to corporate America by buying locally, not buying on credit, and by simply saying I dont need it...I dont want it....none of us need the new fancy cellphone or the latest computer, or 4 00 channels on tv or the latest shoes, purse or jeans....we want so we say need....and until every person stops supporting the 2% with their need for immediate material gratification,,all the occupations in the world will do nothing..

Read this..... and I promise you will see what I am saying..

http://www.forbes.com/sites/brendancoffey/2011/10/26/the-four-companies-that-control-the-147-companies-that-own-everything/

Dean:

I get what you're saying and I'm wrestling with this myself because my wife and I are not buying on credit and we've basically decided that if we can't save up for it, we don't need it. On the other hand, certain industries--and here I'm thinking about the computer industry--is predicated on a certain amount of 'churn'. Let's say that people took your advice and stopped buying the latest computer. That means that Dell, Apple and HP won't need as many employees so they'll lay them off. That means that the software vendors won't need as many employees so they'll lay *them* off. If everyone closes up their pockets and buys only the necessities then I think the economy will get worse, not better. It may not be the way we want it to be but I fear that whether we would prefer it, this is the economy we have to start with and make changes to that system.

I would like to see more emphasis on thrift and delayed gratification on the consumer side and a return to slow-and-steady growth on the business side. I would like to see businesspeople once again use, as one metric of success, hiring people instead of it being seen as, at best, an inconvenience to have a larger payroll this year than last.

Cheers
Aj

[MsMerrick]

Unfortunately, Occupy Wall St has been occupying privately owned property not a public park, not a city park,....The owner of the land has told them they will be evicted..and they need to move. They have done neither so they have been evicted.
Please do not take this for my lack of support for occupy wall street...I am extremely supportive of all occupy movements across the country i spend much time here at the occupy philly one....


Dean, where are you getting the information that OWS has been evicted? I have heard nothing that says that has happened.
Are you referring to Occupy Oakland?

[Toughy]

Occupy Oakland @6:00pm 14th and Broadway tonight

ps Merrick I think Dean has old news....I heard about this last week and the guy decided not to evict them.

[MsMerrick]

Occupy Oakland @6:00pm 14th and Broadway tonight

ps Merrick I think Dean has old news....I heard about this last week and the guy decided not to evict them.
Oh that.. The clean up thing.. Yeah that's very old news :)
Did everyone hear about the Chief of Police in Albany who defied the Governor ? Or lets put it this way, suggested he needed to rethink evicting peaceful protesters ; )
Let me see if I can link it..
I have only heard generally about it, don't have specific knowledge ...
It will be covered tomorrow morning on WRRL with a commentator who has broadcast from OWS several times now, Mark Lewis...Worth listening to and yes you can catch the show streaming live...
But here you go:

http://www.timesunion.com/opinion/article/Occupy-Albany-s-right-to-protest-2234390.phpttp://

[Ebon]

Oh that.. The clean up thing.. Yeah that's very old news :)
Did everyone hear about the Chief of Police in Albany who defied the Governor ? Or lets put it this way, suggested he needed to rethink evicting peaceful protesters ; )
Let me see if I can link it..
I have only heard generally about it, don't have specific knowledge ...
It will be covered tomorrow morning on WRRL with a commentator who has broadcast from OWS several times now, Mark Lewis...Worth listening to and yes you can catch the show streaming live...
But here you go:

http://www.timesunion.com/opinion/article/Occupy-Albany-s-right-to-protest-2234390.phpttp://

I found an article. So awesome!

http://redgreenandblue.org/2011/10/24/police-defy-order-from-mayor-ny-gov-to-shut-down-and-arrest-occupy-albany/

Police defy order from Mayor, NY Gov, to shut down and arrest Occupy Albany

This is a breath of fresh air. Democratic New York State Governor Andrew Cuomo, who should know better, wanted Occupy Wall Street protesters out of the park at the NY State Capitol. If they refused to leave, he wanted arrests.

He pressured Albany Mayor Jerry Jennings, who had earlier said he had no problem with the occupiers camping out, and Jennings changed his tune. Orders also went out to New York State Police. Cuomo and Jennings both said, “Get them out of here.”

But the police said no, and stood by the occupiers.

And as the Albany Times Union reported (full disclosure: I used to work for the Times Union):

“We were ready to make arrests if needed, but these people complied with our orders,” a State Police official said. However, he added that State Police supported the defiant posture of Albany police leaders to hold off making arrests for the low-level offense of trespassing, in part because of concern it could incite a riot or draw thousands of protesters in a backlash that could endanger police and the public.

“We don’t have those resources, and these people were not causing trouble,” the official said. “The bottom line is the police know policing, not the governor and not the mayor.” (via)

The occupation now looks to be settling in and could go on indefinitely.

That is just a bit of the article.