OCCUPY WALL STREET

[Corkey]

MSNBC Ed Schultz has boots on the streets in NYC.

[Ebon]

Anne Hathaway at the protests today.

CY9mCuw2bu4

[Toughy]

tens of thousands of people in the streets of NYC and elsewhere

with friday and saturday and ..... to come

I so hope '4 dead in Ohio' does not come to pass AGAIN.........

[atomiczombie]

CBS News online lied today in it's article about the NY Occupy protest. It said that turnout was low and there were only about 1000 people there.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-57326965/on-2-month-anniversary-400-occupiers-arrested/?tag=cbsContent;cbsCarousel

On Countdown tonight Keith Olbermann reported that it was more like 10-30k.

[persiphone]

Video of OWS today via remote control helicopter. You can see the cops using flash grenades and tear gas on the crowds.

9vOor1xmVDs



looks like a war zone and not an American city...gives me chills. did we just step back into the 60s?

[SoNotHer]

Awesome footage and responses. So beautiful after the feeling Tuesday morning after the raids.

Great posts. Yeah!!!!


Anne Hathaway at the protests today.

CY9mCuw2bu4

[VintageFemme]

I don't know if this article has been shared or not since it's dated from October, but I had just come across it from a friend and wanted to share it as well:

http://www.disinfo.com/2011/10/jp-morgan-chase-donates-4-6-million-to-nypd-on-eve-of-protests/

No surprises.

[SoNotHer]

"JP Morgan Chase Donates $4.6 Million To NYPD On Eve Of Protests

Wondering how much it costs to buy off the police department? JP Morgan Chase just gave the New York City Police Foundation the largest donation in its history. How the police show their gratitude will presumably determine whether they receive similar donations from companies in the future."

I don't know if this article has been shared or not since it's dated from October, but I had just come across it from a friend and wanted to share it as well:

http://www.disinfo.com/2011/10/jp-morgan-chase-donates-4-6-million-to-nypd-on-eve-of-protests/

No surprises.

[persiphone]

i'm shocked that we have a president that should have a unique perspective on the civil rights protests of our history and he's not intervening in police brutality on protesters. i've been waiting this whole time for him to say SOMEthing. some kind of words of calm or words of rationality.....SOMETHING. but he hasn't said anything to the protesters and nothing to the cops. he's mentioned the general movement a couple times in passing but that's it. i think he won't be getting my vote on the next go around. i really hope there's a decent candidate to oppose him but i'm not holding my breath.

[Toughy]

Phase 1 has been about occupying turf....parks, sidewalks, etc...with a message of social, political and economic justice. We need to keep this turf war going while doing something else....move forward.

Now it's time for Phase 2 because if there is not a Phase 2 then folks are getting gassed, beat, hospitalized and jailed for no good reason except a turf war.

So what would Phase 2 look like?
* The halls and offices of Congress should be occuppied in the form of lobbying (going in the offices and talking to them or their staff) all Senators and House members.
* Voter registration drives should be part of every protest and every encampment.
* Call a Constiitutional Convention to get money out of politics would be a good thing. There are occupy movements in (I think) all 50 states now and we should be working in our states as well as on the national scene.

The Constitutional Amendment could be only 2 lines....that's it ....short sweet and unambigious.
1. Corporations are not people and money is not speech.
2. All federal elections will be publicly financed. No private money can be spent on federal elections. (this means the president, senate and house elections....Personally I think ALL elections should be publically financed.)

Article V of the Constitution outlines how it is done. Basically there are two ways to do it. One is by Congress and the way all previous amendments have been done. The other way is if 2/3 of the states (legislatures) demand a Convention, it must be called by Congress. To ratify an amendment it must be approved by 3/4 of the states. So 34 states demand a convention, then it takes 38 to ratify the amendment.

We get money out of politics and the possibility that government would again be by and for the people exists.

I got this idea from listening to the radio.........it makes sense to me.

[UofMfan]

8FFA18IvFyE

[atomiczombie]

i'm shocked that we have a president that should have a unique perspective on the civil rights protests of our history and he's not intervening in police brutality on protesters. i've been waiting this whole time for him to say SOMEthing. some kind of words of calm or words of rationality.....SOMETHING. but he hasn't said anything to the protesters and nothing to the cops. he's mentioned the general movement a couple times in passing but that's it. i think he won't be getting my vote on the next go around. i really hope there's a decent candidate to oppose him but i'm not holding my breath.

He takes so much corporate/bank campaign contributions, he is a bought and paid for president. This is who will be getting my vote:

http://www.jillstein.org/

obQ51NP4DZc

[atomiczombie]

Phase 1 has been about occupying turf....parks, sidewalks, etc...with a message of social, political and economic justice. We need to keep this turf war going while doing something else....move forward.

Now it's time for Phase 2 because if there is not a Phase 2 then folks are getting gassed, beat, hospitalized and jailed for no good reason except a turf war.

So what would Phase 2 look like?
* The halls and offices of Congress should be occuppied in the form of lobbying (going in the offices and talking to them or their staff) all Senators and House members.
* Voter registration drives should be part of every protest and every encampment.
* Call a Constiitutional Convention to get money out of politics would be a good thing. There are occupy movements in (I think) all 50 states now and we should be working in our states as well as on the national scene.

The Constitutional Amendment could be only 2 lines....that's it ....short sweet and unambigious.
1. Corporations are not people and money is not speech.
2. All federal elections will be publicly financed. No private money can be spent on federal elections. (this means the president, senate and house elections....Personally I think ALL elections should be publically financed.)

Article V of the Constitution outlines how it is done. Basically there are two ways to do it. One is by Congress and the way all previous amendments have been done. The other way is if 2/3 of the states (legislatures) demand a Convention, it must be called by Congress. To ratify an amendment it must be approved by 3/4 of the states. So 34 states demand a convention, then it takes 38 to ratify the amendment.

We get money out of politics and the possibility that government would again be by and for the people exists.

I got this idea from listening to the radio.........it makes sense to me.

This is excellent, T. I totally agree. Now, how do we get this message to the general assemblies of the Occupy groups across the US?

[Cin]

Bloomberg stated that media were prevented from reporting for their own protection.

We have a kind Securitarian state going on, and I guess we have for awhile. We seem to accept this.

It is a kind of totalitarianism that needs the appearance of elective democracy in order to function but the reality is that the representatives of the government agree that security trumps all. It is a government where the pursuit of elusive and illusionary security is used as an excuse to trample rights and freedom. We can thank the Occupy Movement for illuminating this for us in case we still doubted it.

And yet many still ask what are those protestors on about anyway? What do they want?

Human Rights Group Concerned Over Journalists’ Arrests at Occupy Wall Street

NEW YORK — A human rights office for the Americas on Thursday criticized the arrest and assault of journalists during Occupy Wall Street protests in New York and other U.S. cities in recent weeks.

The Washington-based Office of the Special Rapporteur for Freedom of Expression of the Inter-American Commission on Human Rights called for authorities to guarantee and protect the practice of journalism at public demonstrations.

The office alleged in a statement that at least three journalists have been assaulted since October by police officers, and two others by participants, in demonstrations in Nashville, Tennessee, and Oakland, California.

“In addition, at least a dozen journalists have reportedly been placed under temporary arrest while performing their professional duties,” the statement said.

The organization pointed to this week’s arrests of seven journalists during a police sweep of the Occupy Wall Street encampment in New York. The journalists included Julie Walker, a freelancer who does work for National Public Radio and The Associated Press; Patrick Hedlund and Paul Lomax of DNAinfo.com; Doug Higginbotham, freelance cameraman for TV New Zealand; Jared Malsin of The Local; Karen Matthews and Seth Wenig of The Associated Press, and Matthew Lysiak of the New York Daily News.

The Committee to Protect Journalists, a nonprofit organization that promotes press freedom, also criticized the treatment and detention of the journalists in New York.

“Journalists must be allowed to cover news events without fear of arrest and harassment,” said Carlos Lauria, CPJ’s senior coordinator for the Americas.

The Americas group also criticized the restrictions placed on media access when police moved in. Mayor Michael Bloomberg told reporters the media were kept from the site for their protection.

“The disproportionate restrictions on access to the scene of the events, the arrests, and the criminal charges resulting from the performance of professional duties by reporters violate the right to freedom of expression,” the organization said.

The Inter-American Commission on Human Rights was created by the Organization of American States, which includes countries from North and South America.

[Cin]

Sad but certainly not surprising.

Poll shows “movement is not wearing well with voters across the country.”

http://www.alternet.org/occupywallst/153116/what_to_make_of_new_polling_on_support_for_the_occ upy_movement/?page=entire

[Cin]

Austerity Alternatives
George Zornick on November 17, 2011 - 1:38pm ET

Yesterday we posted a MoveOn.org-produced video of former Labor Secretary Robert Reich explaining how the supercommittee might reduce the deficit without imposing crushing austerity measures, nor damaging the social safety net relied upon by millions of Americans. It’s really excellent, and you ought to check it out.

On the eve of some decision by the supercommittee—or no decision and painful automatic cuts—this is a time to remember the other ideas out there for balancing the budget. There are plenty of credible and thoughtful plans out there. Granted, they are not politically viable at the moment, given the Republican Party’s control of the House of Representatives, and its ability to stop virtually anything in the Senate—not to mention the six votes it controls on the supercommittee.

But to listen to most media coverage of the deficit debates—and too often, the rhetoric thrown about by Republicans and some Democrats—one comes away thinking the only way to get the fiscal house in order is via “entitlement reform” and deep domestic spending cuts, along with higher taxes and fewer loopholes.

But this just isn’t so. For example, the Congressional Progressive Caucus crafted a “People’s Budget,” which eliminates the deficit within ten years while creating a $31 billion surplus—all while protecting valuable programs like Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security. You can read the entire budget here (PDF), a one-page summary here (PDF), and an outside analysis by the Economic Policy Institute here (PDF).

Here are some of the plan’s features.

On taxes:

Ends the recently passed upper-income tax cuts and lets Bush-era tax cuts expire at the end of 2012

Extends tax credits for the middle class, families and students

Creates new tax brackets that range from 45 percent starting at $1 million to 49 percent for $1 billion or more

Implements a progressive estate tax

Eliminates corporate welfare for oil, gas and coal companies; closes loopholes for multinational corporations

Enacts a financial crisis responsibility fee and a financial speculation tax on derivatives and foreign exchange

On healthcare:

Enacts a healthcare public option and negotiates prescription payments with pharmaceutical companies

Prevents any cuts to Medicare physician payments for a decade

On defense:

Responsibly ends our wars in Iraq and Afghanistan to leave America more secure both home and abroad

Cuts defense spending by reducing conventional forces, procurement and costly R&D programs

The key theme of this plan is to put investment and job creation up front, while protecting the programs that many Americans rely upon for their economic well-being during a recession. Even Bill Clinton, no flaming liberal, called the plan “the most comprehensive alternative to the budgets passed by the House Republicans and recommended by the Simpson-Bowles Commission.”

Meanwhile, Occupy DC met in downtown Washington to discuss alternate deficit reduction proposals that would protect the 99 percent and attempt to correct rampant income inequality. They drew on advice from a wide array of economists and policy experts during the meeting, which you can watch here. The outline of their plan is here—it’s quite detailed and provides evidence and documentation for many of its claims. They are careful not to say it’s a “demand” of the OccupyDC movement, but the next time someone says the occupiers have no goals, you can send them this.

The plan shares many broad goals of the People’s Budget, like taxing high and corporate incomes more fairly and protecting safety net programs from cuts, while investing in infrastructure spending and other projects that will increase employment while improving the country.

Again, in the near term—as in, within the next six days, when the supercommittee must act—there’s no chance these proposals become reality. But OccupyDC says they offer this plan as a solution once the supercommittee fiasco concludes:

Once again, the people of the United States will see corruption reign supreme. Despite evident solutions to the deficit and the economic collapse, the Congress will show its corruption and dysfunction and be unable to put forward real solutions.

We issue this report to alert everyone—the political system is broken. It is corrupted by the power of concentrated wealth, campaign donations and corporate power. The job of the occupations across the country is to build an independent nonviolent movement that replaces this corrupt system with one in which the people rule. The battle between concentrated wealth and participatory democracy will be heightened by the evident corruption of the Super Committee which will not challenge the unfair policies of the 1 percent while requiring austerity for the 99 percent.

The economic and political elite should expect protests to grow. We are at the beginning of what will be seen as a historic revolt against status quo elites that will transform this economy as well as how the United States is governed.

Finally, in the spirit of Occupy Wall Street’s participatory democracy—perhaps you can come up with your own deficit reduction plan. The Pew Charitable Trusts has an interactive calculator that lets you play with 100 different spending and tax policies to create reduce the debt to sustainable levels
http://www.pewtrusts.org/our_work_report_detail.aspx?id=85899366327

and the New York Times offers something similar here.
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2010/11/13/weekinreview/deficits-graphic.html

Here is the article because I don't think the PDF's work. Nor can you see Occupy DC's plan unless you click the link to the original article.

www.thenation.com/blog/164679/austerity-alternativeshttp://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2010/11/13/weekinreview/deficits-graphic.html

[AtLast]

The 99% will never get anywhere unless an amendment to the Constitution is made that renders the Citizens United Suptreme Court decision unconstitutional. And this takes utilizing our voting and democratic processes to happen.

Look at the amounts of money both major parties use during elections! Obscene!

We have to get corporate money out of politics and have an election system that only uses public funds that have a maximum. No more private buying of elections!

Right now, the GOP in several states is trying to suppress voting rights of students, the elderly, the poor, and people of color.

[Cin]

The Fox/NYT nexus on OWS

The New York Times‘ media critic, Brian Stelter, yesterday had a long column criticizing the local Fox affiliate for claiming throughout the day — falsely — that OWS intended to “shut down” the New York City subway system. Stelter cited the “ominous” warnings from Fox anchor Greg Kelly — the son of NYPD Commission Raymond Kelly — saying things such as: “This is a big deal . . . .So far, they’ve focused their ire at the wealthy and those who support them, but when they start to shut down the commuting system for folks who are on their way to work, that’s something else.” Except, as Stelter documents, the whole thing was a fabrication from the start: while OWS announced their intention to “shut down” Wall Street, they intended merely to “occupy” the subway system by “handing out fliers.”

Stelter asked a Fox spokesperson about the sourcing for this claim and she replied: “It’s been reported elsewhere.” Ordinarily, one might be skeptical of this excuse, except that in this case — though Stelter doesn’t mention it — there is a significant source that also reported this claim: The New York Times. Yesterday’s NYT article on the various OWS protests by reporter Katharine Seelye “reported” as follows: “There was much confusion throughout the day in New York as protesters caused disruptions at the New York Stock Exchange and at Zuccotti Park before they moved in the afternoon to shut down subway stations” (h/t sysprog).

The current version of that article does not contain that passage, and there is no editorial note or correction noting that it had been removed, nor is there anything about this error on today’s Correction page. The NYT‘s own media critic apparently thought this reporting error was significant enough to warrant a long critique — when the error was Fox’s (and indeed, he noted that “other stations in New York City briefly suggested that the protesters might try to shut down the transit system”) – but the NYT, which likely played at least some role (if not the key role) in spawning this erroneous reporting, simply deleted the passage from its article without any acknowledgment of its error, even as its media critic bashed Fox for the same error. It’s like it just never happened (a not uncommon way of dealing with significant errors at the NYT).

As Stelter correctly noted: “Much of what is said on television about the Occupy Wall Street movement is opinion. Some is factual. And sometimes, it’s hard to tell the difference.” That is at least part of the reason that public opinion is souring on the movement. But as usual, the problem isn’t that people are watching falsehoods from Fox. The problem is that so much of what Fox spouts is also found — often first — in The New York Times.

http://www.salon.com/2011/11/18/the_foxnyt_nexus_on_ows/

[Soon]

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-y4UdSSv_8Rc/TsZ_Th1OpdI/AAAAAAABL8I/7KL5FWmOEIQ/s400/striking-photo-of-pepper-sprayed-protestor-at-occ-5501-1321588876-1.jpg

[Cin]

An interesting article.

First Steps in Reforming the U.S. Financial and Tax System

http://www.counterpunch.org/2011/11/18/first-steps-in-reforming-the-u-s-financial-and-tax-system/

[persiphone]

Press clash with police during Occupy Wall Street raid; seven journalists arrested
By Dylan Stableford

Senior Media Reporter

PostsEmailRSSBy Dylan Stableford | The Cutline – Tue, Nov 15, 2011


Zuccotti Park, which has been ground zero for the Occupy Wall Street protest since mid-September, was cleared by police in riot gear early Tuesday morning. As NYPD officers carried out the raid, they turned away members of the media--occasionally by force, with several arrests ensuing .

And like the protesters they were trying to cover, the journalists swept up in the raid have been crying foul.

"I'm press!" Rosie Gray, a reporter for the Village Voice, claims she told a female police officer.

Her response: "Not tonight."

Reporters such as Gray took to Twitter, using a #mediablackout hashtag to update their industry colleagues.

At a press conference, New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg said police barred the media from covering the raid for their own protection, and "to prevent a situation from getting worse."

"The First Amendment gives every New Yorker the right to speak out, but it does not give anyone the right to sleep in a park or otherwise take it over to the exclusion of others," Bloomberg said. "Nor does it permit anyone in our society to live outside the law."

"Could #Bloomberg be a secret Occupy Wall Streeter?" Times columnist Nicholas Kristof wrote on Twitter. "He seems to have just revived the movement."

According to Gothamist.com, the NYPD restricted airspace in Lower Manhattan to prevent local news helicopters from CBS and NBC from capturing video images of the raid. Police also used pepper spray on a "large number" of reporters.

Reporters from NPR and the New York Times were among the 200 people whom police officers arrested during the initial raid. Julie Walker, a freelancer for NPR, was arrested "despite the fact that she was wearing an NYPD-issued press pass." Police held her for four hours before releasing her.

Jared Maslin, a reporter for the New York Times's local East Village blog, said he was arrested as he tried to comply with the police orders to move away from the area.

The "reporter was put onboard a police van with eight other arrestees, including two New School undergraduates, a photographer with Agence France-Presse, and city councilman Ydanis Rodriguez, all handcuffed behind their backs," the Times said. Rodriguez "had blood on his temple from what he said was an earlier confrontation with the police."

On Tuesday afternoon, police arrested at least four other journalists who were tracking OWS protestors as they tried to gather at another nearby park. Among that group of arrested reporters were journalists from the Daily News and the Associated Press, according to the Times.

[Cin]

This Is What America Looks Like
Thursday 17 November 2011
by: William Rivers Pitt, Truthout

Protesters with the Occupy Wall Street movement in Zuccotti Park in New York, November 15, 2011. After being evicted by the police Tuesday morning, several hundred Occupy Wall Street demonstrators returned to the park the same night, but a judge’s ruling now bans tents, tarps and staying overnight.

They say it's hard to speak
They feel so strong to say we are weak
But through the eyes the love of our people
They've got to repay.

We come from Trench Town
We come from Trench Town
Trench - Trench Town
They say, "Can anything good
Come out of Trench Town?"

- Bob Marley

Let's get a few things straight right from the jump.

First of all, despite all the gleeful obituaries that have been appearing across the scabrous landscape of the "mainstream" news media, the Occupy movement is not, in fact, over. Mayor Michael Bloomberg may have sent in cops like thieves in the night to dispossess peaceful protesters and destroy books in New York City, but there are hundreds of Occupy camps still standing from one side of this nation to the other. As for the seedcorn New York protest, well...if you're one who opposes what they've been doing, you can cross your fingers and toes to your heart's delight in the hope that matters are settled in the Big Apple, but you best be prepared for disappointment, because those people have set their caps to accomplish what they endeavored to do back in September, and they are far, far more organized and determined than people like you seem capable of apprehending.

A setback like this only adds fuel to the fire. We're talking about people who are so committed to the ideals of the Occupy movement that they abandoned the soft conveniences of modern existence - walls, a roof, a bed, plumbing, locks on the doors and the soothing babble of cable TV - to sleep in a park surrounded by strangers for almost two months. Raise your hand if you've ever gone camping for two full months, anywhere. It has been hot, it has been cold, it has rained, it has snowed, and, oh yeah, there was the ever-present threat of catching a billy club over the head or a face full of NYPD mace for their trouble. You think they're going away after enduring all that?

Ha.

Second, I'm going to slap the next person who comes out with the pat line, "They don't have a message! They need a message! They're nothing without a message!" Um, cluebag, they are the message. The Occupy movement has created modern-day Hoovervilles from sea to shining sea to point out the simple fact that things have gone badly wrong in these United States, that the American Dream of even minimal upward mobility and the promise of a better future for our children were sold for pennies on the dollar to the bastards and whores who have perverted this democracy past the point of recognition. It's a fantastic bit of irony, a towering example of cognitive dissonance, that the same people who attack the Occupy movement are also the ones packing guns to Tea Party protests because they think the country is headed in the wrong direction. What in the name of Jesus H. Christ do they think the right direction is? 99% of us are getting screwed, and the Occupy movement has been the most eloquent firebreak against that heedless, moneygrubbing trend.

I'll make it simple: Wall Street has occupied American politics and stolen America's bright future in an orgy of graft and theft, so America has occupied Wall Street - along with every Main Street in every city and town you can think of - in order to try and set things right. Got it? It is pretty simple, folks. Two plus two does, in fact, equal four. The only reasons people refuse to see this thing, simply, for what it is come down to willful stupidity, stubborn partisanship, money, or a combination of the three.

Third, anyone who claims that the Occupy movement has not accomplished anything can kiss my whole entire ass. The upward mobility of our hard-earned money into the coffers of the rich and powerful has been going on since the disaster known as the "Reagan Revolution." The politicians bought by the cash-fat elite have appointed judges to every level of the state and federal judicial systems, and the serial corporate-favoring rulings handed down by these robed criminals have given this grand theft the imprimatur of legality, but it ain't legal, and it ain't right. One look at the Supreme Court's Citizen's United decision, and the after-affects of same, can tell you that. Hell, Mitt Romney actually got up with his bare face hanging out the other day to make the very modern American argument that corporations are, in fact, people...non-existent multi-billionaire people protected from even the most minimal legal oversight or scrutiny, to be sure, but people all the same.

Is that the country you want to live in? I don't, and neither do the Occupy protesters, and what they have accomplished over these last two months is to finally, finally, finally draw major national attention to the deranged way we go about things here in America. In the immortal words of a fantastic Occupy protest sign, "I'll believe corporations are people when Texas executes one." For the first time in modern memory, people in America, along with their elected representatives and the "mainstream" media that covers it all, have had their noses rubbed in the awful yawning gap between the Haves and the Have Nots, and the manner in which this doomed system of thievery-as-governance actually operates. Those who try to tell you the Occupy movement has no message are the very people who see the message with perfect clarity, and it scares the tar out of them, so they have made a point of saying black is white in order to muddy the waters. Don't believe it. In your gut, you know better.

No one, but no one, has explained it all better than Chris Hedges:

The banks and Wall Street, which have erected the corporate state to serve their interests at our expense, caused the financial crisis. The bankers and their lobbyists crafted tax havens that account for up to $1 trillion in tax revenue lost every decade. They rewrote tax laws so the nation's most profitable corporations, including Bank of America, could avoid paying any federal taxes. They engaged in massive fraud and deception that wiped out an estimated $40 trillion in global wealth. The banks are the ones that should be made to pay for the financial collapse.

The big banks and corporations are parasites. They greedily devour the entrails of the nation in a quest for profit, thrusting us all into serfdom and polluting and poisoning the ecosystem that sustains the human species. They have gobbled up more than a trillion dollars from the Department of Treasury and the Federal Reserve and created tiny enclaves of wealth and privilege where corporate managers replicate the decadence of the Forbidden City and Versailles. Those outside the gates, however, struggle to find work and watch helplessly as food and commodity prices rocket upward...And no one in the Congress, the Obama White House, the courts or the press, all beholden to corporate money, will step in to stop or denounce the assault on families. Our ruling elite, including Barack Obama, are courtiers, shameless hedonists of power, who kneel before Wall Street and daily sell us out. The top corporate plutocrats are pulling down $900,000 an hour while one in four children depends on food stamps to eat.

Finally, any and all who say the Occupy movement is meaningless in comparison to the civil rights struggle or the fight against the war in Vietnam are, quite simply, flat wrong. Worse than that, you know you're wrong. This is not to discredit or discount those great, noble and entirely just efforts in any way, shape or form. But to claim the Occupy movement is beneath those efforts not only misses the point by miles, but viciously undercuts the very fabric of those efforts. This fight is about race, and class, and justice, and what happens to a nation when it becomes addicted to war and the profits earned for a few by the delivery of death. The Occupy movement is the culmination of every great struggle, in this century and the last, against a powerful few who would have us return to the days of aristocracy and penury. Like Rosa Parks, the Occupy movement sat down where it supposedly didn't belong and said, "I'm not moving," until what is wrong is set right once and for all.

Just so we're clear
http://www.truth-out.org/what-america-looks/1321471600

[persiphone]

An interesting article.

First Steps in Reforming the U.S. Financial and Tax System

http://www.counterpunch.org/2011/11/18/first-steps-in-reforming-the-u-s-financial-and-tax-system/



i have been saying for a very long time that we don't live in a democracy, but rather we live in an oligarchy. we live in an illusion of democracy to keep us quiet.

[SoNotHer]

Great post, Toughy. Yes, like most change, this will be come in waves and phases. It's time to get out of the parks and into the community meetings and media and capitols.


Phase 1 has been about occupying turf....parks, sidewalks, etc...with a message of social, political and economic justice. We need to keep this turf war going while doing something else....move forward.

Now it's time for Phase 2 because if there is not a Phase 2 then folks are getting gassed, beat, hospitalized and jailed for no good reason except a turf war.

So what would Phase 2 look like?
* The halls and offices of Congress should be occuppied in the form of lobbying (going in the offices and talking to them or their staff) all Senators and House members.
* Voter registration drives should be part of every protest and every encampment.
* Call a Constiitutional Convention to get money out of politics would be a good thing. There are occupy movements in (I think) all 50 states now and we should be working in our states as well as on the national scene.

The Constitutional Amendment could be only 2 lines....that's it ....short sweet and unambigious.
1. Corporations are not people and money is not speech.
2. All federal elections will be publicly financed. No private money can be spent on federal elections. (this means the president, senate and house elections....Personally I think ALL elections should be publically financed.)

Article V of the Constitution outlines how it is done. Basically there are two ways to do it. One is by Congress and the way all previous amendments have been done. The other way is if 2/3 of the states (legislatures) demand a Convention, it must be called by Congress. To ratify an amendment it must be approved by 3/4 of the states. So 34 states demand a convention, then it takes 38 to ratify the amendment.

We get money out of politics and the possibility that government would again be by and for the people exists.

I got this idea from listening to the radio.........it makes sense to me.

[dykeumentary]

Great post, Toughy. Yes, like most change, this will be come in waves and phases. It's time to get out of the parks and into the community meetings and media and capitols.

Totally agree. And I also would add an analysis of racism.
The "New Deal" that came out of the great depression created the white middle class, and left People of Color behind. Unless this new "99%" movement studies history, listens, and doesn't make the same mistakes, we might be building a new set of institutional racist structures that just serve a few.

The extremist "Rght" has been getting themselves elected in school boards, county and town-level positions since the mid 90s. Then they moved onto state-wide seats from those constituencies. And now they are national players. People who want justice would do well to get to know their neighbors well-- it's become apparent who has been talking with them.

I remain hopeful!

[SoNotHer]

That is an exceptional article. Some many jewels are within it -

"he basic problem today is that nearly everyone is in debt. This is the problem in Europe too."

"The banking system’s alternative to 'the road to serfdom' thus turns out to be a road to debt peonage."

"Every Democratic congressional committee chairman has to pay to the Party $150,000 to buy the chairmanship. This means that the campaign donors get to determine who gets committee chairmanships. This is oligarchy, not democracy. So the system is geared to favor whoever can grab the most money."

"Today’s economic problem is systemic. This is what makes any solution so inherently radical."




An interesting article.

First Steps in Reforming the U.S. Financial and Tax System

http://www.counterpunch.org/2011/11/18/first-steps-in-reforming-the-u-s-financial-and-tax-system/

[ruffryder]

here is a livestream you can check out that has a few OWS locations. .

http://www.livestream.com/globalrevolution



Occupy Portland demands the mayor apologize for the violent crackdown

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/11/15/occupy-portland-demands-mayor-apologize-for-violent-crackdown/



X2ZMkysoBXg

Violent crackdown in NY at Zuccoti, what's next? Protestors take to the streets of NY!

[AtLast]

So, how about members right here running for local school boards and city or county government offices? What about getting on bank or hospital boards in our communities? Join non-elected city and county committes like recreation and safety committees. Many of us have raised or are raising kids and also run small businesses or work for Mom & Pop/Mom & Mom/Pop & Pop businesses and have a stake in the schools they attend. Tea Party tactics have worked for them...... from the ground up. We can't do the same?

[theoddz]

I was wondering how long it would take for the moneyed interests, crooked politicians and bastard bankers to crawl out from under their rock to outwardly and openly oppose OWS. Here we go.

This on msnbc.com this morning.

http://openchannel.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2011/11/19/8884405-lobbying-firms-memo-spells-out-plan-to-undermine-occupy-wall-street

My guess is that this is going to, ultimately, heat things up until there is rioting in the streets. The second American Revolution has begun.

~Theo~ :bouquet:

[persiphone]

in Lobbyist terms...under a million bucks is not a lot of money. also, i think that once they start delving into the who's and the whys i think they're going to be in for a rude awakening. i think the financial sector is still subscribing to the idea that they are untouchable. i think we're going to see some sacrificial lambs emerge from banking and i think the idea that they're even considering moving in this direction is both skeery and vindicating. i think you're right though.....this could get uglier than it is now.

[Soon]

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-xXO6ODyNFZI/Tse8EUeLbQI/AAAAAAABL-M/4lL8XVcfIrw/s400/pepper.jpg

OMG Cops pepper-spray UC Davis students, point blank in face, who are just sitting there doing nothing (http://www.americablog.com/2011/11/omg-cops-pepper-spray-uc-davis-students.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Americablog+%28AMERICAblog%29&utm_content=Google+Reader)

[Dominique]

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-xXO6ODyNFZI/Tse8EUeLbQI/AAAAAAABL-M/4lL8XVcfIrw/s400/pepper.jpg

OMG Cops pepper-spray UC Davis students, point blank in face, who are just sitting there doing nothing (http://www.americablog.com/2011/11/omg-cops-pepper-spray-uc-davis-students.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Americablog+%28AMERICAblog%29&utm_content=Google+Reader)


When I see things like this, and read about other cities and the problems they are having. I wonder, is the ACLU watching? Are they doing anything about this? It has been stated over and over again, (here) the ACLU will be watching everything. Redundant, but worth repeating. The police have been wonderful. Even the five people arrested this week, were put into plastic wrist cuffs, (not hand cuffed) and all walked nicely to the paddy wagon. I realize this could have gone the other way. ON EITHER PARTIES BEHALF>

[SoNotHer]

Is this photo-shopped or real? If the latter, I'm beyond words.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-xXO6ODyNFZI/Tse8EUeLbQI/AAAAAAABL-M/4lL8XVcfIrw/s400/pepper.jpg

OMG Cops pepper-spray UC Davis students, point blank in face, who are just sitting there doing nothing (http://www.americablog.com/2011/11/omg-cops-pepper-spray-uc-davis-students.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Americablog+%28AMERICAblog%29&utm_content=Google+Reader)

[VintageFemme]

Is this photo-shopped or real? If the latter, I'm beyond words.

It's as real as it gets. This is very hard to watch but here it is...

wuWEx6Cfn-I

[SoNotHer]

What have we become...

It's as real as it gets. This is very hard to watch but here it is...

wuWEx6Cfn-I

[persiphone]

i have to wonder what the members here in this online community that are members of the police force think of all of this. i was talking about this with one of them....and i said....worst case scenario if this country started transitioning into a police state....we would be on opposite sides of the fence just because hy's a cop and i'm not...not because of my belief in this movement.

[SoNotHer]

Imagine if everyone in Manhattan, Detroit and Chicago suddenly lost their ability to vote. That's the number of people -- 5 million and counting -- affected by passed and pending changes to voting laws in states around the country. When all is said and done, millions more could be disenfranchised.

The people passing these laws lie. They say that it's about voter fraud. What it's really about is systematically suppressing voters of color, students and the elderly.

While the NAACP is nonpartisan, the people pushing these laws are not. They know that the number of people, five million, whose votes would be suppressed by these laws is three times greater than the combined margin of victory in Florida, Nevada, Ohio, Pennsylvania and Virginia during the 2008 presidential election.

Let's call these new voter requirement laws out for what they are: Extreme attempts by the far right-wing to legislate voter suppression. We can fight back. Knowledge is power. Will you take these quick and easy steps to learn the facts about these new voter requirements?

Take our mobile text quiz. Text the word TRUTH to 62227 on your mobile phone to take a simple quiz: Learn the truth about who is affected by voter ID laws.

Like Stand for Freedom on Facebook: Join the discussion on new voter ID laws across the country, and learn how you can get involved in our efforts to ensure everyone has the right to vote.

You have a better chance of being struck by lightning than you do of being impersonated at the polls.

11% of eligible voters would not have the proper, up-to-date, state-issued ID required to vote.

African American, Latino, young, elderly and disabled voters are far more likely to lack the required identification to vote. Your support in the coming months is more important than ever. Take these quick and easy steps to start fighting back today.

Thanks,

Ben

Benjamin Todd Jealous
President and CEO
NAACP

[Cin]

I just read this article. It has ten police assaults on occupy protestors caught on camera. Some I had seen, some i had not. All were appalling. Particularly the ones of people trying to engage in peaceful protests being beaten for no discernible reason. I guess we are not allowed to complain anymore. I remember a quote by Cuban writer Reinaldo Arenas "The difference between the communist and capitalist systems is that, although both give you a kick in the ass, in the communist system you have to applaud, while in the capitalist system you can scream. And I came here to scream". It appears now that screaming is no longer acceptable under the newest version of capitalism. Or they will give you something to scream about.

http://www.alternet.org/occupywallst/153134/caught_on_camera%3A_10_shockingly_violent_police_a ssaults_on_occupy_protesters/?page=1

[key]

Cops could start refusing to enforce illegal commands to attack peaceful protestors exercising their first amendment rights.

When that happens (and I believe it will) the revolution will be in full swing. Power to the Peaceful!



http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2011/11/18/article-2063351-0ED828A500000578-612_634x477.jpg

[Ebon]

Cops could start refusing to enforce illegal commands to attack peaceful protestors exercising their first amendment rights.

When that happens (and I believe it will) the revolution will be in full swing. Power to the Peaceful!



http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2011/11/18/article-2063351-0ED828A500000578-612_634x477.jpg

That's right. They always have a choice to do the right thing. No excuses.

[AtLast]

i have to wonder what the members here in this online community that are members of the police force think of all of this. i was talking about this with one of them....and i said....worst case scenario if this country started transitioning into a police state....we would be on opposite sides of the fence just because hy's a cop and i'm not...not because of my belief in this movement.

I know 2 police officers in real time and neither of them agree with the tactics that have been employed. Now, both live in tiny towns that do not have a lot of crime- and have not had "crowd control" problems that have ever become violent.

I don't like what is going on here in the Bay Area in terms of the police raids and actions. But, I also don't like seeing an officer's face slashed with exacto knoves when they are just standing there and simply telling demonstrators to stay on the sidewalk. Guess, I just don't like violence or property damage to innocent parties. They have not been involved in any OWS activity at this point. I'm not going to stereotype all cops- even those around me. There have been many police officers joining in protests over the last year against anti-union legislation passed in WS, for example.

Now, this article is upsetting- and it looks like the Goodman research has turned-up some confirmation. Sorry if this link has already been posted.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/11/19/1038054/-Confirmed:-Police-Executive-Research-Forum-(PERF)-coordinating-Occupy-raids?via=siderec

[persiphone]

Cops could start refusing to enforce illegal commands to attack peaceful protestors exercising their first amendment rights.

When that happens (and I believe it will) the revolution will be in full swing. Power to the Peaceful!



http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2011/11/18/article-2063351-0ED828A500000578-612_634x477.jpg

yeah if corporations stopped "donating" to police pension funds maybe.

[persiphone]

I just read this article. It has ten police assaults on occupy protestors caught on camera. Some I had seen, some i had not. All were appalling. Particularly the ones of people trying to engage in peaceful protests being beaten for no discernible reason. I guess we are not allowed to complain anymore. I remember a quote by Cuban writer Reinaldo Arenas "The difference between the communist and capitalist systems is that, although both give you a kick in the ass, in the communist system you have to applaud, while in the capitalist system you can scream. And I came here to scream". It appears now that screaming is no longer acceptable under the newest version of capitalism. Or they will give you something to scream about.

http://www.alternet.org/occupywallst/153134/caught_on_camera%3A_10_shockingly_violent_police_a ssaults_on_occupy_protesters/?page=1


i think...of course i'm no expert on cops....but i think an entire generation of cops haven't had to deal with anything like this (meaning local civil unrest on this scale). i think their scared of it. i don't think their used to having their authority challenged and i'm of the mind that this is what's behind a lot of the violent responses.

[persiphone]

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/11/19/1038054/-Confirmed:-Police-Executive-Research-Forum-(PERF)-coordinating-Occupy-raids?via=siderec


this info doesn't surprise me. i'm surprised that this info surprises people. still. after all that's been done.

[dykeumentary]

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-xXO6ODyNFZI/Tse8EUeLbQI/AAAAAAABL-M/4lL8XVcfIrw/s400/pepper.jpg

OMG Cops pepper-spray UC Davis students, point blank in face, who are just sitting there doing nothing (http://www.americablog.com/2011/11/omg-cops-pepper-spray-uc-davis-students.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Americablog+%28AMERICAblog%29&utm_content=Google+Reader)

Abhorrent. As a non-violent person who has been involved in actions and organizing against police brutality, it sickens me every time.

But it seems they aren't "really" just sitting there doing nothing. The demonstrators seem to have received direction to disperse, and chose not to, as well as received warning that they would be pepper-sprayed, and they chose to stay. So with all the media there, it seems the police response was anticipated, and maybe that was the goal.

A well-organized action uses these kinds of tactics to gain attention to their cause, so I would consider this a successful action if the protestors moved closer to achieving their goals through what happened here.

I know I can be a buzzkill. I trust the readers of this thread know I'm interested in achieving a world of fairness, with the least violence possible. I dont support putting oneself in harm's way- someone being pepper prayed or beaten -- unless they are part of a coordinated action that has medical and legal contingency plans. Since it seems like police brutality is going to become standard behavior even against white people (!) I hope as few as possible suffer permanent damage, and at least it can be documented in service of worthy goals. Including ending police brutality against all people.

[persiphone]

Abhorrent. As a non-violent person who has been involved in actions and organizing against police brutality, it sickens me every time.

But it seems they aren't "really" just sitting there doing nothing. The demonstrators seem to have received direction to disperse, and chose not to, as well as received warning that they would be pepper-sprayed, and they chose to stay. So with all the media there, it seems the police response was anticipated, and maybe that was the goal.

A well-organized action uses these kinds of tactics to gain attention to their cause, so I would consider this a successful action if the protestors moved closer to achieving their goals through what happened here.

I know I can be a buzzkill. I trust the readers of this thread know I'm interested in achieving a world of fairness, with the least violence possible. I dont support putting oneself in harm's way- someone being pepper prayed or beaten -- unless they are part of a coordinated action that has medical and legal contingency plans. Since it seems like police brutality is going to become standard behavior even against white people (!) I hope as few as possible suffer permanent damage, and at least it can be documented in service of worthy goals. Including ending police brutality against all people.


uuuhhh.....what does "even against white people" mean? surely, i'm taking it the wrong way.

[Dominique]

"The difference between the communist and capitalist systems is that, although both give you a kick in the ass, in the communist system you have to applaud, while in the capitalist system you can scream. And I came here to scream". It appears now that screaming is no longer acceptable under the newest version of capitalism. Or they will give you something to scream about.


That was hard to watch. I winched a few times, but when someone started to yell "These are children, These are children", I became emotional. I only saw three being hauled away (yes, three too many) For the front the police put on, I expected more. The students showed everyone its a US against THEM situation, and you saw how the police
backed off as the crowd chanted louder and the peaceful demonstration became an anti police protest. That could have been ugly. I also saw alot of hesitation on the faces and the body language of the police. Clearly they were struggling with what was going on here.

Police are only allowed to use the amount of force that is neccessary, and NOT A BIT MORE. NOT A BIT MORE.

Thank you for posting this. Ugly as it was, I needed to see it.

[dykeumentary]

That's right. They always have a choice to do the right thing. No excuses.

I totally agree, and I hope this can be used to the 99%'s advantage.
Police are agents of state power, and state power has become "1%ers power". We are in an asymmetrical power/resource relationship with the police, so hating them or even trying to kill them means that there will be more of them, invested with ever more vicious methods and justification from their bosses.

I think the way to "win" this asymetrical situation is to have the police stop following orders that don't make sense, such as firing weapons at veterans, grannies, young people, or anyone at all.
There's no way a banker is going to go out themselves and fight. I hope we can find a way to have the police see that their orders are unethical. I hope that we can appeal to police offiicers' sense of shared humanity, rather than their survival instincts and sell-defense. Will politicians use our movement as a reason to have a domestic military force? They would be a "jobs with a secure future"- chillingly enough.

I have to deal with this issue of police brutality often, as an activist against it, and with lots of family members who work in law enforcement.
Bishop Oscar Romero is one of my heroes. I refer to him when I deal with my Catholic family:
"“Before an order to kill that a man may give, the law of God
must prevail that says: Thou shalt not kill! No soldier is obliged to
obey an order against the law of God.”

[dykeumentary]

uuuhhh.....what does "even against white people" mean? surely, i'm taking it the wrong way.

I'm glad you asked me to clarify: I am saying that police brutality is and has been a reality for People of Color, particularly for men of African decent, for centuries in the USA.

Now with all the photos and videos of police brutality against 99% protestors available, I am seeing white people surprised by police brutality, as if it is something brand new. It had never crossed the minds, or the experience, of some white people.

[atomiczombie]

I was wondering how long it would take for the moneyed interests, crooked politicians and bastard bankers to crawl out from under their rock to outwardly and openly oppose OWS. Here we go.

This on msnbc.com this morning.

http://openchannel.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2011/11/19/8884405-lobbying-firms-memo-spells-out-plan-to-undermine-occupy-wall-street

My guess is that this is going to, ultimately, heat things up until there is rioting in the streets. The second American Revolution has begun.

~Theo~ :bouquet:

Here's the article on the Up With Chris Hayes site. The video is at the bottom of the page:

http://upwithchrishayes.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2011/11/19/8896362-exclusive-lobbying-firms-memo-spells-out-plan-to-undermine-occupy-wall-street-video


Exclusive: Lobbying Firm's Memo Spells Out Plan to Undermine Occupy Wall Street (VIDEO)
Sat Nov 19, 2011 8:53 AM EST
by Jonathan Larsen and Ken Olshansky
(crossposted from MSNBC's "Open Channel" blog)

A well-known Washington lobbying firm with links to the financial industry has proposed an $850,000 plan to take on Occupy Wall Street and politicians who might express sympathy for the protests, according to a memo obtained by the MSNBC program “Up w/ Chris Hayes.”

The proposal was written on the letterhead of the lobbying firm Clark Lytle Geduldig & Cranford and addressed to one of CLGC’s clients, the American Bankers Association.

CLGC’s memo proposes that the ABA pay CLGC $850,000 to conduct “opposition research” on Occupy Wall Street in order to construct “negative narratives” about the protests and allied politicians. The memo also asserts that Democratic victories in 2012 would be detrimental for Wall Street and targets specific races in which it says Wall Street would benefit by electing Republicans instead.

According to the memo, if Democrats embrace OWS, “This would mean more than just short-term political discomfort for Wall Street. … It has the potential to have very long-lasting political, policy and financial impacts on the companies in the center of the bullseye.”

The memo also suggests that Democratic victories in 2012 should not be the ABA’s biggest concern. “… (T)he bigger concern,” the memo says, “should be that Republicans will no longer defend Wall Street companies.”

Two of the memo’s authors, partners Sam Geduldig and Jay Cranford, previously worked for House Speaker John Boehner, R-Ohio. Geduldig joined CLGC before Boehner became speaker; Cranford joined CLGC this year after serving as the speaker’s assistant for policy. A third partner, Steve Clark, is reportedly “tight” with Boehner, according to a story by Roll Call that CLGC features on its website.

Jeff Sigmund, an ABA spokesperson, confirmed that the association got the memo. “Our Government Relations staff did receive the proposal – it was unsolicited and we chose not to act on it in any way,” he said in a statement to "Up."

CLGC did not return calls seeking comment.

Boehner spokesman Michael Steel declined to comment on the memo. But he responded to its characterization of Republicans as defenders of Wall Street by saying, “My understanding is that President Obama is the single largest recipient of donations from Wall Street.”

On “Up” Saturday, Anita Dunn, Obama campaign adviser, responded by saying that the majority of the president’s re-election campaign is fueled by small donors. She rejected the suggestion that the president himself is too close to Wall Street, saying “If that’s the case, why were tough financial reforms passed over party line Republican opposition?”

The CLGC memo raises another issue that it says should be of concern to the financial industry -- that OWS might find common cause with the Tea Party. “Well-known Wall Street companies stand at the nexus of where OWS protestors and the Tea Party overlap on angered populism,” the memo says. “…This combination has the potential to be explosive later in the year when media reports cover the next round of bonuses and contrast it with stories of millions of Americans making do with less this holiday season.”

The memo outlines a 60-day plan to conduct surveys and research on OWS and its supporters so that Wall Street companies will be prepared to conduct a media campaign in response to OWS. Wall Street companies “likely will not be the best spokespeople for their own cause,” according to the memo. “A big challenge is to demonstrate that these companies still have political strength and that making them a political target will carry a severe political cost.”

Part of the plan CLGC proposes is to do “statewide surveys in at least eight states that are shaping up to be the most important of the 2012 cycle.”

Specific races listed in the memo are U.S. Senate races in Florida, Pennsylvania, Virginia, Wisconsin, Ohio, New Mexico and Nevada as well as the gubernatorial race in North Carolina.

The memo indicates that CLGC would research who has contributed financial backing to OWS, noting that, “Media reports have speculated about associations with George Soros and others.”

"It will be vital,” the memo says, “to understand who is funding it and what their backgrounds and motives are. If we can show that they have the same cynical motivation as a political opponent it will undermine their credibility in a profound way.”

[persiphone]

I'm glad you asked me to clarify: I am saying that police brutality is and has been a reality for People of Color, particularly for men of African decent, for centuries in the USA.

Now with all the photos and videos of police brutality against 99% protestors available, I am seeing white people surprised by police brutality, as if it is something brand new. It had never crossed the minds, or the experience, of some white people.



thanks for clarifying cuz for a sec i was like....oh no she dint! *ghetto neck rolling* and i thought surely i am misunderstanding after having done the online forums thing with you for so many years now.

[dykeumentary]

thanks for clarifying cuz for a sec i was like....oh no she dint! *ghetto neck rolling* and i thought surely i am misunderstanding after having done the online forums thing with you for so many years now.

I'm so glad you know this about me! How is it that we've never gone out dancing? We should have some fun times together....soon, I fear. :fastdraq:

[persiphone]

I'm so glad you know this about me! How is it that we've never gone out dancing? We should have some fun times together....soon, I fear. :fastdraq:


prolly has something to do with being on opposite ends of the country perhaps? :)

[SoNotHer]

Are you two discussing dancing in a time of great social unrest, political upheaval and paradigm shifting?

Well, then, go on with your bad selves. :-)

http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTFa99SpE3Rg2KHffrblVLzIr3ec7kle dOMK1U7l8_AUDufasv-MpyJPVGcHQ

prolly has something to do with being on opposite ends of the country perhaps? :)

[Dominique]

Are you two discussing dancing in a time of great social unrest, political upheaval and paradigm shifting?

Well, then, go on with your bad selves. :-)

http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTFa99SpE3Rg2KHffrblVLzIr3ec7kle dOMK1U7l8_AUDufasv-MpyJPVGcHQ

Hears Janis Joplin music :wine:

[persiphone]

how awesome would that be though.....flash mobs of ballroom dancers in the middle of police clashes. i call it The Mace Tango. it's sooooo Titanic~ish with the violinists playing as the ship goes down.

[dykeumentary]

how awesome would that be though.....flash mobs of ballroom dancers in the middle of police clashes. i call it The Mace Tango. it's sooooo Titanic~ish with the violinists playing as the ship goes down.

Don't even go there, P.
I might incite global revolution just so I can bedazzle you with my "BUTCH DYKE DOUGIE".

[atomiczombie]

“Tyranny is defined as that which is legal for the government but illegal for the citizenry.” - Thomas Jefferson

[Toughy]

I'm glad you asked me to clarify: I am saying that police brutality is and has been a reality for People of Color, particularly for men of African decent, for centuries in the USA.

Now with all the photos and videos of police brutality against 99% protestors available, I am seeing white people surprised by police brutality, as if it is something brand new. It had never crossed the minds, or the experience, of some white people.

Actually if you go back to the 60's......it was white folk who were also beat, gassed, arrested during political protests and they were surprised then....

white folk in the US have no oral tradition to pass down the reality of oppression by the owner, landed class........it's no surprise that some are shocked today....

as Sonny & Cher sang

"and the beat goes on'

[persiphone]

Don't even go there, P.
I might incite global revolution just so I can bedazzle you with my "BUTCH DYKE DOUGIE".


i'm not even gonna ask what that is. i'm picturing something like out of West Side Story though

[dykeumentary]

i'm not even gonna ask what that is. i'm picturing something like out of West Side Story though

Yes, you aren't too far off. Not only will I do the "butch dyke dougie" but will also treat the 'old world order' to this:
An elaborate production number; a kick line of Femmes in sequin gowns and elbow gloves, me-- ascending from a pomegranate-shaped pool of sychronized swimmers in a top hat and tails, disco balls, full orchestra, AND the ghost of Celia Cruz.

Doesn't that vision make you just want to speed the day!

Ps: you can read me like a book! I love that Jets' finger-snap walk!

[persiphone]

Republicans blast Occupy movement at debate
AFP – 4 hrs ago



Republicans candidates vying for their party's nomination lambasted the Occupy Wall Street movement on Saturday, at a debate organized by Christian groups.

"Go get a job right after you take a bath," Newt Gingrich told the audience at the "Thanksgiving Family Forum," when asked about activists protesting over the last two months in major US cities including New York and Washington.

The protesters seek an overhaul to what they see as major socioeconomic inequalities fostered by mainstream US politics and systems of finance.

Another frontrunner in the race, former pizza boss Herman Cain, slammed the OWS movement by claiming that "freedom without responsibility is immoral."The forum, organized by a number of right-wing Christian organizations, was attended by other candidates Michele Bachmann, Rick Perry, Ron Paul, and Rick Santorum, were present Saturday to this discussion.

Only Mitt Romney and Jon Huntsman, both Mormons and more moderate candidates, did not attend.
Iowa is a key state for the Republican primary, as it holds the first in a series of primary votes on January 3, in the battle to face incumbent Barack Obama in the general election next November.


i highlighted the classy bits in red and funny bits in blue

[persiphone]

How Did They Project That Occupy Wall Street Message on the Verizon Building?
By Dashiell Bennett | The Atlantic Wire – Fri, Nov 18, 2011




..One of the most impressive moments of yesterday's Occupy Wall Street marches, was when someone projected a giant 99% "bat signal" on the side of one of lower Manhattan's skyscrapers as thousands of people swarmed across the nearby Brooklyn Bridge. New Yorkers know the Verizon Building as the windowless, concrete eyesore that looms over the bridge and mars the downtown skyline, so seeing it used is such a way certainly got a lot of attention.


But who did it? And how were they able to project the stories-high words on the building just as the protesters made their way over the span? Boing Boing's Xeni Jardin spoke to Max Read, one of the Occupy Wall Street organizer who pulled together a team of friends and artists that arranged for the projection to happen.


Read says he got help from two video projection artists, Max Nova and JR Skola, who used a 12,000 lumen projector and programmed the software needed to properly program the message. He also found an apartment in a nearby housing project from where they safely angle the projection on to the building. He says he offered to rent the apartment from a single mother of three, but when she found out what they wanted to use it for — and saw what happened during the eviction of Zuccotti Park — she refused to take their money.


You can read more detail in the full interview at Boing Boing and see a video of the full message below:

Related: Bloomberg Says Unions Supporting Protesters Ought to Be Thanking Banks


here's the link for a nice view of the Verizon building: (i wish i knew how to embed)

Occupy Wall Street 99% Spotlight Signal #N17 #OWS #OccupyEverything - YouTube

[persiphone]

and this was all i could find on this:


UC Davis launches probe after pepper spray video
The chancellor of the University of California, Davis said Saturday that the school was launching an investigation after "chilling" video images surfaced online showing an officer using pepper spray on several protesters as they sit passively with their arms interlocked.

[dykeumentary]

and this was all i could find on this:


UC Davis launches probe after pepper spray video
The chancellor of the University of California, Davis said Saturday that the school was launching an investigation after "chilling" video images surfaced online showing an officer using pepper spray on several protesters as they sit passively with their arms interlocked.


So it appears that Davis CA has a 5 member (districtless) city council, and all city departments answer to them.
Here's the plan UC Davis students: Register, then vote every one of those current members out. Create a citizen police review board with investigative and legal teeth. Then hire a police chief who wouldn't give orders to pepper spray sitting students.

It's great that they don't have districts- in many college towns they slice off students from having political power. I'm glad elections are coming up in 2012!

[Toughy]

I want Phase 2 NOW

tired of turf wars..........I live in Oakland...it's part of my everyday life...

the difference now is that white folk are involved in a turf war over white folk land...........city hall, wall street.........whatever..........wait what year is it.....the 60's

Phase 2..........get the fucking money out of politics

[Nat]

and this was all i could find on this:


UC Davis launches probe after pepper spray video
The chancellor of the University of California, Davis said Saturday that the school was launching an investigation after "chilling" video images surfaced online showing an officer using pepper spray on several protesters as they sit passively with their arms interlocked.

http://thisweekinblackness.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/J3AE5-494x329.jpg

Protect and Serve (http://thisweekinblackness.com/blog/2011/11/19/ows-uc-davis-protect-serve/)

This was the scene at UC Davis when police arrived to deal with some occupiers. That spray? Oh, that’s pepper spray. Sometimes when people are peacefully protesting you gotta pepper spray them. You know, to let them know that their still alive. Agree with the the Occupy Movement or not–the police across the country have acted terribly in dealing with them. It seems if the government doesn’t like what you’re doing your prone to being attacked, pepper sprayed or whatever feels right at the moment.

*UPDATED*

Just ran across this gem defending this–

UC Davis Police Chief Annette Spicuzza said officers used force out of concern for their own safety after they were surrounded by students.

“If you look at the video you are going to see that there were 200 people in that quad,” said Chief Spicuzza. “Hindsight is 20-20 and based on the situation we were sitting in, ultimately that was the decision that was made.”

Right. That cop looks TERRIFIED. He can barely strut while pepper spraying those folks. I SEE FEAR IN HIS EYES.

Check out video of the incident above

WmJmmnMkuEM

Here's the "gem" being referred to (http://sacramento.cbslocal.com/2011/11/18/police-defend-use-of-force-on-occupy-uc-davis/)

Police Defend Use Of Force On ‘Occupy UC Davis’

The watching crowd began shouting chants of “Shame on you” and “Let them go,” while dozens of students recorded the encounter on cell phone cameras.

“I don’t think that was warranted,” one protester told CBS13. “It was non-violent protests, we were sitting, linking arms.”

UC Davis Police Chief Annette Spicuzza said officers used force out of concern for their own safety after they were surrounded by students.

“If you look at the video you are going to see that there were 200 people in that quad,” said Chief Spicuzza. “Hindsight is 20-20 and based on the situation we were sitting in, ultimately that was the decision that was made.”

Authorities are still reviewing video of the incident, Spicuzza added.

Officers left the quad after making 10 arrests, nine of which were UC Davis students. Law enforcement retreated out of the field in a direction that was not obstructed by sitting protesters.

Protesters vowed to remain in the quad and reestablish their camp Friday evening, but as of 10:00 p.m. Friday, no demonstrators or tents were visible in the area.

[dykeumentary]

Holy Crap.
I had no idea that campus police have weapons and riot gear! I thought they issued parking tickets.
I thought surely they must be real cops with a real agenda to brutalize students.
Wow. All all universities like that?
Sad thing is that it might be harder to throw out a campus regime than a municipal one.
I'm so sorry, UC Davis!

[Nat]

kNHXuf6qJas

UC Berkeley English Professor Celeste Langan (1st woman pulled) offers out her wrists and tells police they can arrest her -- they yank her out by the hair and do the same with two students. The police were intent on destroying the Occupy Cal encampment tents. Later in the video, a woman is pinned to a bush and being batoned, and a man trying to rescue her gets beaten by police.

[atomiczombie]

http://i813.photobucket.com/albums/zz56/atomiczombie/policestate.jpg

Grrr....

[Toughy]

ain't it hard to be peaceful.........

what kind of revolution do we want?

edited to add: it looks no different from the 60's or the 90's (HIV/AIDS protests)...........so what

[Dominique]

:hamactor:what the republican party has to say

http://thinkprogress.org/lgbt/2011/11/19/372836/gingrich-occupy-wall-street-should-go-get-a-job-right-after-you-take-a-bath/

[Cin]

1000 students-perfect silence for Chancellor Katehi. One minute in the woman accompanying her said to a reporter asking Katehi if she was still afraid of the students that they (meaning her and Katehi) asked for it to be silent. Nice try. Beautiful statement by the students.

CZ0t9ez_EGI&feature=player_embedded

[persiphone]

1000 students-perfect silence for Chancellor Katehi. One minute in the woman accompanying her said to a reporter asking Katehi if she was still afraid of the students that they (meaning her and Katehi) asked for it to be silent. Nice try. Beautiful statement by the students.

CZ0t9ez_EGI&feature=player_embedded



she looks pretty somber

[Cin]

she looks pretty somber
I almost felt sorry for her. She does look rocked.

[Cin]

It's a matter of opinion but worthy of the read for sure.

According to The American Prospect here are
The five most important OWS pieces this week:


http://www.alternet.org/occupywallst/153118/ows_shows_fight_is_far_from_over%3A_explosive_acti ons_on_2_month_anniversary_of_movement/?page=entire

http://www.alternet.org/occupywallst/153118/ows_shows_fight_is_far_from_over%3A_explosive_acti ons_on_2_month_anniversary_of_movement/?page=entire

http://www.thenation.com/article/164686/students-debt-cant-pay-wont-pay-dont-pay

http://www.inthesetimes.com/article/12038/occupy_chicago_no_park_no_sleep_no_problem/

http://www.salon.com/2011/11/17/occupy_philly_debates_move_or_get_moved/singleton/

[persiphone]

I almost felt sorry for her. She does look rocked.


i don't feel sorry for her. she should be outraged and she should be filing complaints with authorities and she should be organizing campus cops to protect the students from that ever happening again.

[UofMfan]

1000 students-perfect silence for Chancellor Katehi. One minute in the woman accompanying her said to a reporter asking Katehi if she was still afraid of the students that they (meaning her and Katehi) asked for it to be silent. Nice try. Beautiful statement by the students.

CZ0t9ez_EGI&feature=player_embedded



I saw this on my FB earlier, it is amazing how powerful silence is.

[dykeumentary]

Today is the most discouraged I can remember ever being.
I did not expect that Halliburton/KBR/Blackwater would be the police force in the USA this soon.

I am sure that the "private security firm" hired by the owners of Zucotti Park is a KBR spawn, and if it isn't already, it will be this week.

And campus security? What with all those dangerous students sitting down, I'm sure KBR sees each college campus as a "market". They can point to the successful "business model" they've developed in Iraq to 'quell unrest'.

So it's come to this, quicker than I thought.
Sad irony that this country makes students go deeply into debt to learn a skill, but billions of tax dollars were given to Cheney and Co to learn how to beat and kill defenseless people fighting for self-determination.

I look back at the work I've done against police brutality and the prison industrial complex and it almost looks quaint.
I suppose if I was smarter, I should either get a job with Halliburton/KBR/Blackwater/whatever they are called now-- or buy stock in them.

Anybody want to get a bourbon?

[Sachita]

I want Phase 2 NOW

tired of turf wars..........I live in Oakland...it's part of my everyday life...

the difference now is that white folk are involved in a turf war over white folk land...........city hall, wall street.........whatever..........wait what year is it.....the 60's

Phase 2..........get the fucking money out of politics

Agree!

See here's what I dont get...

They work for us, right? Isnt that why we vote? Doesnt our hard earned money pay their salaries? If so why is everything being held up in congress? Fuck them all, fire them and lets hire mediators and advisers who work for us.

There needs to be drastic measures and money talks.

[AtLast]

Now, the cop spraying the demonstrators with pepper spray at the UC, Davis demonstration this weekend did piss me off. They were just sitting there- no weapons, no rocks, etc.

One, and only one cop did it- which makes me wonder about him, individually acting completely differently than the other officers right there with him. None of them joined in doing this, not one.

Also having trouble with how faux News keeps trying to link both the murder in Oakland and now the murder (the student died this morning) on the UCB campus (in the computer lab) with the OWS demonstrations. They are not connected. There is some speculation (no confirmation I have heard) that the suspect in the Oakland incident had camped for a few days with OWS campers, but he is not really an activist at all.

[Cin]

i don't feel sorry for her. she should be outraged and she should be filing complaints with authorities and she should be organizing campus cops to protect the students from that ever happening again.

Yes, agreed. I said almost.

I doubt things went down exactly as she wanted but I don't believe the campus cops acted the way they did without believing that this is what was expected of them. While she's filing complaints she ought to file some against herself.

[Corkey]

http://news.yahoo.com/officers-pepper-spray-incident-placed-leave-182151195.html

Yea wonder if they are being paid while on administrative leave.

[Cin]

Now, the cop spraying the demonstrators with pepper spray at the UC, Davis demonstration this weekend did piss me off. They were just sitting there- no weapons, no rocks, etc.

One, and only one cop did it- which makes me wonder about him, individually acting completely differently than the other officers right there with him. None of them joined in doing this, not one.


I don't think it was just one cop. Here is a description of what happened from an English professor who was there.

Another widely-circulated description comes from assistant English professor Nathan Brown:

Police used batons to try to push the students apart. Those they could separate, they arrested, kneeling on their bodies and pushing their heads into the ground. Those they could not separate, they pepper-sprayed directly in the face, holding these students as they did so. When students covered their eyes with their clothing, police forced open their mouths and pepper-sprayed down their throats. Several of these students were hospitalized. Others are seriously injured. One of them, forty-five minutes after being pepper-sprayed down his throat, was still coughing up blood.

[AtLast]

http://www.ebcitizen.com/2011/11/peralta-community-college-board.html

Peralta Community College Board Approves Moving Money Out Of Big Banks

I hope other districts all over the US do this!

[Corkey]

Raise your hand if this reminds anyone of the Secret Police of Nazi Germany?

[AtLast]

I don't think it was just one cop. Here is a description of what happened from an English professor who was there.

Another widely-circulated description comes from assistant English professor Nathan Brown:

Police used batons to try to push the students apart. Those they could separate, they arrested, kneeling on their bodies and pushing their heads into the ground. Those they could not separate, they pepper-sprayed directly in the face, holding these students as they did so. When students covered their eyes with their clothing, police forced open their mouths and pepper-sprayed down their throats. Several of these students were hospitalized. Others are seriously injured. One of them, forty-five minutes after being pepper-sprayed down his throat, was still coughing up blood.

The "clip" being shown here does not have any of this on it. Just peaceful students sitting and one cop spraying them and then walking away. One cop and he did not touch them at all.

I believe the proff- most likely, the rest was just not caught on video. But, this is what the general public here in CA is being shown. I don't think there was a need for pepper spray at all.

Maybe there are other clips out there?

[Corkey]

The "clip" being shown here does not have any of this on it. Just peaceful students sitting and one cop spraying them and then walking away. One cop and he did not touch them at all.

I believe the proff- most likely, the rest was just not caught on video. But, this is what the general public here in CA is being shown. I don't think there was a need for pepper spray at all.

Maybe there are other clips out there?

Did you read the one I posted AtLast? There were others involved.

[Corkey]

http://news.yahoo.com/top-0-1-nation-earn-half-capital-gains-172647859.html

Top 1% earn half capitol gains earnings.

[Corkey]

http://thinkprogress.org/special/2011/11/18/372361/rep-deutch-introduces-occupied-constitutional-amendment-to-ban-corporate-money-in-politics/

Rep. Deutch introduces Occupied Constitutional Amendment.

[Cin]

http://news.yahoo.com/top-0-1-nation-earn-half-capital-gains-172647859.html

Top 1% earn half capitol gains earnings.

From this article:

"It's crystal clear that the Bush tax reduction on capital gains and dividend income in 2003 was the cutting edge policy that has created the immense increase in net worth of corporate executives, Wall St. professionals and other entrepreneurs.

I commend you to the late Justice Louis Brandeis warning to the nation that " We can have democracy in this country, or we can have great wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both."
We have to make up our minds to restore a higher, fairer capital gains tax to the wealthiest investor class-- or ultimately face increased social unrest."

So true. Thanks Corkey.

[ruffryder]

I want Phase 2 NOW

tired of turf wars..........I live in Oakland...it's part of my everyday life...

the difference now is that white folk are involved in a turf war over white folk land...........city hall, wall street.........whatever..........wait what year is it.....the 60's

Phase 2..........get the fucking money out of politics

What's goin in Oakland with the anti OWS protestors? Looks like a huge bunch. Is anyone else seeing this in Oakland or any other cities?

[Corkey]

Anti OWS protests haven't made it here. Our OWS are still in the park and are minus electricity except for a generator that was provided them.

[dykeumentary]

Raise your hand if this reminds anyone of the Secret Police of Nazi Germany?

Again, this is important to me.
In my opinion, comparisons to Nazi Germany are not helpful in any way, to anyone here.

[Corkey]

Again, this is important to me.
In my opinion, comparisons to Nazi Germany are not helpful in any way, to anyone here.

Really, have you studied Nazi Germany, or had a relative who fought against them? Because the tactics are exactly the same. You are free to disagree, but at least do so with some facts.

[atomiczombie]

Also having trouble with how faux News keeps trying to link both the murder in Oakland and now the murder (the student died this morning) on the UCB campus (in the computer lab) with the OWS demonstrations. They are not connected. There is some speculation (no confirmation I have heard) that the suspect in the Oakland incident had camped for a few days with OWS campers, but he is not really an activist at all.

Fox has created an on-going, full-on smear campaign against OWS:

USPW1BxJQXU

[dykeumentary]

Really, have you studied Nazi Germany, or had a relative who fought against them? Because the tactics are exactly the same. You are free to disagree, but at least do so with some facts.

Ok Corley, based on your studies: When you make this comparison, what insight or strategy to improve our current situation do you offer?

[Corkey]

Ok Corley, based on your studies: When you make this comparison, what insight or strategy to improve our current situation do you offer?

How about supporting the Rep who is placing an amendment up for vote. Vote the damned tea party out and everyone else who the 1% buy. Remember what we are fighting about, freedom and free speech. Support GMO, get money out. And remember this, that fortune favors those who remember the past. Lest we forget we are doomed to repeat it.

[atomiczombie]

Really, have you studied Nazi Germany, or had a relative who fought against them? Because the tactics are exactly the same. You are free to disagree, but at least do so with some facts.

Well Corkey, the Gestapo didn't just arrest protestors. They executed them. That is a fact. It's also a huge difference.

[Corkey]

Well Corkey, the Gestapo didn't just arrest protestors. They executed them. That is a fact. It's also a huge difference.

So when the police spray pepper spray down a protestors throat, he wasn't actually trying to kill him? Or does this not qualify due to hospital care. Really people start opening your eyes. You are not that far from Martial Law being declared.

[AtLast]

Did you read the one I posted AtLast? There were others involved.

Hey, Corkey- now I have seen them and also (finally) I have picked-up more on the local TV here. Also a short phone interview with the UCD Chief (a "sister). Two of the officers involved are on admin leave and it is being investigated. i saw the holding up of a hood and spraying. Then the chancellor's statements.

What the hell is going on? I would think that that the admin and the Chief would go over what is going too far against students that are not armed and not challenging anyone physically at all. Yes, they were blocking a pathway and 60,000 people use the campus, but they could have been removed without spraying them. We would go limp and be carted away back in the late 60's and 70's. They posed no immediate danger to anyone.

I am wanting students to get some small groups together and meet with boards, however, and push for what the Peralta district has done. getting the entire U of C, state colleges and universities and community college districts to move bank accounts out of big banks and into smaller community banks would be millions of dollars - even billions. These are the kinds of things that will make a difference and are aimed at some of the real culprits. The movement needs to proceed with organized goals aimed at all of the institutions that contribute to income disparity- camping isn't going to do this. In fact, that aspect of the movement ends up taking public funds away from the very programs and people that are always suffer cut-backs. And there will be more of these unless we take back our political system and get the right-wingers out of office.

There was a point in my student activism that I realized that things needed to be more focused and all the marching in the streets was not going to effect change. And my generation brought about a lot of change. But we also has a US Congress that became over 65% Democrat at the time as were most of the states.

[dykeumentary]

So when the police spray pepper spray down a protestors throat, he wasn't actually trying to kill him? Or does this not qualify due to hospital care. Really people start opening your eyes. You are not that far from Martial Law being declared.

Ok, I was going to have a conversation about this, but I think you made my point for me.
That is: a university security officer who pepper sprayed an informed protestor (who chose to be at a demonstration), with witnesses, who was given warning of consequences that would befall him for refusing to move, and who can trust that there will be legal recourse, DOES NOT EQUAL "the tactics used by the Nazi secret police."
I choose to not continue this line of conversation. The situation is bigger than showing oneself to be "right" in some analogy.

What would be interesting and useful to me is to converse with people who post here, to increase our understanding what's going on, and to discuss responses that might improve our situation.

I don't think you need to convince anyone here that we are at a critical juncture, Corkey. When you write things like "really people start opening your eyes" to a forum of people taking time out of their day to thoughtfully discuss exactly this issue, it doesnt feel good. Martial law was declared when they passed the Patriot Act. These are new times calling for new tactics. Let's talk about that.

Now I really need that bourbon.

[Corkey]

What of the Police who shot the college student, or doesn't that one count either? The Brown shirts started beating people before they ever killed them, history repeats, let them with ears and eyes remember.

[Cin]

Ok, I was going to have a conversation about this, but I think you made my point for me.
That is: a university security officer who pepper sprayed an informed protestor (who chose to be at a demonstration), with witnesses, who was given warning of consequences that would befall him for refusing to move, and who can trust that there will be legal recourse, DOES NOT EQUAL "the tactics used by the Nazi secret police."


I may choose to participate in a peaceful demonstration and I may expect to be arrested for my choice but I never, until now, would i have expected to be pepper sprayed directly in my face from 6 inches away or have my mouth held open and be pepper sprayed down my throat. I might have expected to be arrested roughly, especially if i chose to peacefully resist arrest, but if I held my hands out to the arresting officer, I wouldn't expect to offer my wrists to be arrested and have the police instead pull me around by my hair. I wouldn't expect to be asking the cops if this was okay or if i was too close over and over checking with them constantly and have them just shoot me with a less lethal weapon. There are a hundred images, at least, of excessive force used on peaceful protestors. Choosing to peacefully demonstrate because you feel there is something wrong with your government does not give the police the right to brutalize you. It is not the fault of the peaceful protestors because they are taking a stand for what they believe. It is the fault of the abusive police who are denying the rights of citizens to protest peacefully.

In January 1933, when Hitler was appointed Chancellor, Germany was a democracy. There were various political parties and people had the right to vote in fair elections. 50% of those who held seats in the Reichstag were against the Nazi Party. It was highly unlikely he would have gotten anywhere. Hitler used the burning of the Reichstag building as an excuse to take control. He claimed a communist conspiracy and got the President to give him emergency powers playing on fear and the rest is history.

Doesn't sound that difficult to duplicate really. The United States of Fear, I mean America, is not going to roll over as quickly as Germany did, but then the U.S. is not in the condition Germany was in because of WW1. But fear is the tactic they use successfully against us. And you are right about Martial Law since the Patriot Act. So why would you think things aren't going to get worse, much worse? As the economy worsens, as unemployment continues to increase, as we become weaker and more vulnerable we will be even more susceptible to fear. I'm not saying the police will become the Gestapo exactly but they are definitely paramilitary already. I think it's scary.

And I don't think people deserve what they get when they choose to peacefully assemble and demonstrate to draw attention to the abuses our government has allowed the financial sector to inflict on the 99%.

[Cin]

Published on Sunday, November 20, 2011 by CommonDreams.org

OWS, Police Brutality, and the War on Terror: An Empire State of Mind
by Falguni Sheth

Over the last week, among the multiple images that horrified and angered the American public, two stood out: One is an image of Dorli Rainey, an 84 year old protester at Occupy Seattle with milk dripping from her face after being pepper-sprayed by a uniformed Seattle officer. Another is the video clip of a uniformed Davis, California police officer pulling out two cans of pepper-spray and directing it at the faces of non-aggressive, stationary student protesters at UC Davis. Both images have gone viral. I suspect this is because there is something so grotesque and terrifying about watching a uniformed officer pull out a can of chemicals that are designed to seriously, if temporarily, cripple and paralyze the its victims. Watching the lurid spectacle happen in real-time has the effect of paralyzing the viewer.

Occupy Seattle's Dorli RaineyOccupy Seattle's Dorli RaineyBesides the outrage that these events provoked, several questions have been raised, even by those who have followed most global political news over the last decade: “What are they thinking? Why these heavy-handed tactics? Why is it ok to assault people instead of arrest them?” And others, perhaps without knowing why, are horrified but not at all surprised. Why not?

These heavy-handed tactics should come as no surprise to any of us. The ability to assault people prior to—no, instead of arresting and charging them with crimes—has become an explicit staple of United States foreign policy since the passage of the USA PATRIOT Act, on Oct. 22, 2001. That bill, some 350 pages long and written over much longer than a month’s time, authorized the state police and army forces to wiretap, investigate, search and detain individuals as part of a pre-emptive strategy to seek out “suspected terrorists,” that is, before they could do damage to “US” (pun intended). Augmented to this was G.W. Bush’s presidential endorsement of torture and rendition strategies, along with the invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan under the auspices of waging a “War on Terror” and the associated military bombings of thousands of people in Iraq, Afghanistan, and Pakistan (with President Obama’s continued support of rendition, the expansion of military drones targeted towards “suspected Al-Qaeda” buildings, and of course, civilians). Tack on Presidential Obama’s enthusiasm to assassinate suspected terrorists in lieu of a trial (Osama Bin Laden), even when they are American citizens (Anwar Al-Awlaki and Samir Khan).

What does any of this have to with police brutality in response to peaceful political dissent and protests in NYC, Berkeley, Seattle, Oakland, Davis, and elsewhere around the country? Everything. We are in an “Empire State of Mind,” with apologies to Jay Z and Alicia Keyes. We have become conditioned to accept and expect police brutality to be imposed on everyone but “US”: African-American men and women; Muslim men and women all over the world, including Western and Northern Europe; Latino migrants in the US. We have also become used to justifying police brutality as directed towards “people who deserve it.” This, at bottom, is an Empire State of Mind. An Empire State of Mind is one where those who order and those who carry out the brutalization and murder, can do so with the assurance of complete impunity because they have the approval of political and media elites, and through them, a widespread public.

Think about it: it is still laughable to consider the possibility of GW Bush and Barack Obama being put on trial for the torture, warrantless detention, or the innumerable murders that have been ordered on their watch. Was there ever a moment when someone thought that President Obama would order the punishment and reprimands of rogue bankers, or the arrest of CEOs who authorized their staff to push toxic mortgages or carry out irresponsible trades that eroded the pensions and life-savings of everyday working people? The evidence of widespread fraud and misconduct is widely available. But in an oligarchy, the prosecution of elites is left to the fantasies of action movies.

Why then are we surprised that the chickens have come home to roost? We have become accustomed to police and army brutality around the world. We have stopped protesting it to a large extent, in part because our sentiments have been mocked (witness the most recent endorsement of the president by the SEIU, with its promiscuous cooptation of OWS rhetoric). We have stopped, if we ever did, seeing the connections between the gluttonous disemboweling of the economic security and safety nets once available to the lower and middle-classes, and the war on immigrants. At a basic level, the latter is a distraction from the former: “Hey, look, a foreigner is taking your job,” says Congress, while they are being paid off by Wall Street bankers to prevent the passing of legislation that would protect pensions, salaries, and benefits of working folks from being plundered. Similarly, we have refused to make the links between the persecution and torture of Muslim men in the name of “fighting terrorism,” and the ever-greater harassment of US citizens: “We need to track devious elements for your safety.” We vote for these folks continually, and then are shocked when the same spurious logic is turned against American citizens.

We are shocked by the police brutality of Dorli Rainey and the Occupy Davis protestors because they are guilty of nothing but loud political dissent. Why then should we not revisit our suspicions of the unproven assertions of the criminal tendencies of millions of men and women around the world and here in the US? We need to see through the aspersions that have been unceasingly cast by the United States government, the 1%, and their minions in order to justify their assaults, brutality, and murderous actions? It’s an Empire State of Mind, not only abroad but increasingly here at home. And the way to dismantle an Empire State of Mind is to revisit our assumptions about the targets of violence and brutality. If brutality can be leveled at American students wrongly, then we need to accept that it’s been meted out unfairly in the Wars on Iraq, Afghanistan, Terror, and Latino migrants, among others.

We shouldn’t be shocked. We should, however, continue to be outraged: the War on OWS, the War on Terror, and the War on Immigrants, are all part and parcel of an Empire State of Mind. We need to consider that each of these wars is equally dubious, intended to distract US by casting a spurious guilt on political dissenters, the working-class, the unemployed, the foreclosed, and other innocent civilians. This is the most basic step needed to resist those state officials, the 1%, and their minions who plunder the government coffers, our taxes, our bank accounts, our equity, our homes, and our livelihood and security, while pretending that their theft and their brutality is conducted for our protection.

[persiphone]

just for shits and giggles....here is what the religious right thinks about the similarities between America and the nazi regime.....

http://www.worldviewweekend.com/worldview-times/article.php?articleid=4881

1. In 1935, under Hitler's rule, prayers ceased to be obligatory in schools. In 1962, The U.S. Supreme Court outlawed school prayer.

2. Hitler eliminated Christian holidays in the schools first by calling Christmas "Yuletide." Most American public schools now call Christmas vacation a "winter break."

3. Hitler took Easter out of schools and instead honored that time of year as the beginning of spring. It has likewise become common for schools in America to refer to time off at Easter as "spring break."

4. Hitler controlled the church using intimidation and threats. A half-century ago, U.S. Senator and Senate Majority Leader Lyndon Baines Johnson, promoted a bill that included an amendment to use the Internal Revenue Service to remove the non-profit status of a church that speaks against the election of any specific political candidate.

5. Hitler enticed thousands of pastors to promote paganism in their congregations. Neopaganism is one of the fastest growing religions in America, doubling every 18 months according to a June 2008 article in The Denver Post. Many American church-goers practice paganism such as "Christian" yoga, contemplative prayer, and walking a labyrinth. As evidence that church doors continue to open further to aberrant beliefs, a 2008 survey found that 57% of evangelicals do not believe Jesus Christ is the only way to God.

6. Hitler was an environmentalist and vegetarian. Marriages performed by the Nazi state frequently included blessings of "Mother Earth" and "Father Sky." Today Americans increasingly accept radical environmentalism, pantheism, and the celebration of Earth Day.

7. Hitler was fascinated by eastern mysticism. Today an increasing number of American pastors encourage their followers to become "mystic warriors".

8. Hitler believed in reincarnation. He even convinced SS officers that by murdering millions of Jews and other "undesirables" they were allowing them to get on with the reincarnation process and come back more quickly in an advanced status. Americans increasingly accept the idea of reincarnation as well as good and bad karma.

9. Hitler's holocaust killed between 8 and 11 million Jews and non-Jews. Americans have killed an estimated 50 million babies since abortion was legalized through the U.S. Supreme Court in 1973. According to a July 7, 2008 article on worldnetdaily.com "An abortionist who claims to have destroyed more than 20,000 unborn children and who once was Hillary Clinton's OB-GYN says he is doing 'God's work' when he terminates a pregnancy…He admits that abortion kills a human soul."

10. Hitler killed 270,000 handicapped people through active euthanasia.[1] America and the courts are rushing toward the same with the murder of individuals such as Terri Schiavo. Oregon voters passed their Death with Dignity Act in 1994 and re-affirmed it in 1997. Washington state voters legalized doctor-assisted suicide on November 4, 2008. In December 2008, a Montana judge ruled terminally ill residents of that state have the right to physician-assisted suicide, and "death with dignity" is gaining acceptance in other states as well.

11. By 1938, all private schools were abolished by Hitler and all education placed under Nazi control. There is constant pressure from federal and many state education authorities to require that Christian schools use state-mandated, humanistic textbooks. The Home School Legal Defense Association is fighting numerous battles at any given time to prevent parents from loosing the right to educate their children as they see fit. In August 2008, a federal district court ruled that the state of California university system may choose not to recognize the diplomas-and thereby deny college entrance to-students who attended a school using textbooks that express a Biblical worldview in the areas of history and science (i.e., Christian schools).

12. Hitler prevented dissenters from using radio to challenge his worldview. Many powerful liberals in America have made clear their intent to reintroduce the "Fairness Doctrine" that would require conservative and religious radio stations to offer equal time to anti-Christian, anti-conservative worldviews.

13. Pastors who spoke against Hitler's worldview and his murderous regime found themselves on trial and frequently imprisoned for "Abuse of Pulpit." In America, hate-crime legislation has the potential to criminalize Christians and pastors who speak out against the homosexual agenda.

14. Many Christians in Germany justified their allegiance to Hitler through a belief that "Their duty to God was spiritual; their duty to the state was political."[2] Many American Christians now have bought the lie that their worldview can be divided between the secular and the sacred-the politician has one area of responsibility, the pastor another, and never shall the two meet. Yet the Bible teaches that all issues are fundamentally spiritual.

15. Hitler outlawed the cross and replaced it with the swastika. Today many churches, Christian colleges, and universities have willingly removed the cross from their buildings. Numerous court cases sponsored by the ACLU have required the removal of the cross from public grounds. The U.S. Supreme Court ruled in 2005 that the Ten Commandments cannot be posted on public grounds for religious purposes.

16. Hitler was fascinated with Friedrich Nietzsche and distributed his writings to his inner circle. Nietzsche promoted Nihilism, the belief that life has no meaning, and he is best known for his position that "God is dead". Nietzsche is presently one of the most widely read authors by American college students.

17. Hitler exploited the economic collapse of Germany to take over as dictator and usher in his brand of socialism. America's financial crisis has given liberals in both political parties the opportunity to grow the size of government and implement freedom-robbing socialism at lightning speed.

18. Hitler was obsessed with globalism, and many of America's most powerful political leaders are willing to subjugate American sovereignty to contemporary globalism.

19. Many Germans responded to Hitler by retreating into neutrality. Today most Americans prefer to remain neutral on moral issues that they think don't affect them personally.

20. On trial after World War II, Hitler's henchmen used the defense that they had not broken any laws. True, they had not defied the laws of Germany since those had been re-written to fit the goals and objectives of Hitler. The Nazi leaders were nevertheless found guilty because the courts at the time recognized a "law above the law." Yet now the U.S. Supreme Court has rejected the law of nature and nature's God by claiming that as society evolves, morals evolve, and so the law, too, must evolve.

21. Calling upon Darwinian evolution, Hitler convinced the German people that purging millions of people was acceptable because of the need to create a pure race; also referred to as eugenics. American students across the board have been educated in Darwinian evolution because the Supreme Court has ruled that creation cannot be taught in our schools-even if both creation and evolution are taught side by side.

22. Margaret Sanger, the founder of Planned Parenthood in America became acquainted with the doctors and scientists that had worked with Nazi Germany's eugenics program and had no quarrel with the euthanasia, sterilization, abortion, and infanticide programs of the early Reich.[3] Sanger even published several articles in Birth Control Review that reflected Hilter's White Supremacist worldview. Planned Parenthood now grosses one billion per year.

23. In Germany, pastors often cited Romans 13:1-2 to encourage Christians to obey the Nazis. Today in America, many pastors have a false view of Romans 13:1-2 and have convinced millions that to disobey governing authorities is to disobey God. This poor training would facilitate Christians here doing just as the German Christians did if faced with similar challenges.

24. Germans accepted socialism to avoid pain. Today's Americans are rejecting capitalism in exchange for government-sponsored "free" healthcare, education, and countless other government handouts.

25. Many Americans accept what I call, One World Spirituality. This is actually an amalgamation of the three worldviews of evolutionary humanism, Hindu pantheism, and occultism. I noted earlier that Hitler embraced all of these.

26. America is rushing toward government-sponsored, national healthcare. We already have a form of this in Medicare and Medicaid. Hitler, too, expanded and centralized Germany's healthcare system. As Melchior Palyi explained, "The ill-famed Dr. Ley, boss of the Nazi labor front, did not fail to see that the social insurance system could be used for Nazi politics as a means of popular demagoguery, as a bastion of bureaucratic power, [and] as an instrument of regimentation."


wow this is .....special. and super creepy. :|

[persiphone]

this place makes valid points without the religious spin of doom in regards to America vs. nazis, but focuses on the Bush administration. LMAO

http://www.angelfire.com/az/sthurston/comparison.html

[Cin]

just for shits and giggles....here is what the religious right thinks about the similarities between America and the nazi regime.....


Are you quoting the religious right's ideas about what makes America like the Nazis because you think they are on par with the reasons people might see some similarity between the police state Germany was and the police state the U.S. is heading toward becoming?

[persiphone]

interestingly, here is a current comparison of America and Germany in present day

http://math-www.uni-paderborn.de/~axel/us-d.html

[persiphone]

Are you quoting the religious right's ideas about what makes America like the Nazis because you think they are on par with the reasons people might see some similarity between the police state Germany was and the police state the U.S. is heading toward becoming?


i posted it because of the above argument and i thought it would be interesting to view all sides of that argument. i have posted other links as well. *points up there*

[Diavolo]

First, I am consistently bothered by references to Nazi's, brownshirts and the Gestapo. While it could be argued that Martin Niemoller was right and we need to stop this at it's root, in deference to the 11-17 million murdered Jews, ethnic Poles, Soviets, homosexuals and people with disabilities, can we agree to not use that language?

Secondly, we have seen time and time again, police over reacting to these Occupy crowds. Not ok. Not ok by any stretch of the imagination. We cannot be excused away as dirty hippies. I'm a businesswoman. And I am the 99%. I am appalled by what I saw at the Davis campus. The Chancellor is in the middle of a horrific shit storm just like the Mayor of Oakland. I hope when this shakes out we will find that she is as horrified as we are with the the cops did to those students and professors and the cops are fired.

We have to be vigilant and we have to understand what this is about. It's about equality. It's not about socialism or even communism. It's about every body pitching in their fair share. Most of the ultra wealthy in this country pay less taxes than I do. And have way more influence. Shouldn't we have an equal amount of influence? Shouldn't corporations be legal entities, not "persons"? Shouldn't the people who screwed up this country, the bankers in particular, be held responsible for their actions? That's what I keep seeing from the OWS folks and I agree wholeheartedly.

[Cin]

interestingly, here is a current comparison of America and Germany in present day

http://math-www.uni-paderborn.de/~axel/us-d.html

So there is hope the U.S. may mirror present day Germany in some distant future.

Although Germany, as well as the rest of Europe, is not safe from Goldman Sachs and financial terrorism in general.

[persiphone]

First, I am consistently bothered by references to Nazi's, brownshirts and the Gestapo. While it could be argued that Martin Niemoller was right and we need to stop this at it's root, in deference to the 11-17 million murdered Jews, ethnic Poles, Soviets, homosexuals and people with disabilities, can we agree to not use that language?

Secondly, we have seen time and time again, police over reacting to these Occupy crowds. Not ok. Not ok by any stretch of the imagination. We cannot be excused away as dirty hippies. I'm a businesswoman. And I am the 99%. I am appalled by what I saw at the Davis campus. The Chancellor is in the middle of a horrific shit storm just like the Mayor of Oakland. I hope when this shakes out we will find that she is as horrified as we are with the the cops did to those students and professors and the cops are fired.

We have to be vigilant and we have to understand what this is about. It's about equality. It's not about socialism or even communism. It's about every body pitching in their fair share. Most of the ultra wealthy in this country pay less taxes than I do. And have way more influence. Shouldn't we have an equal amount of influence? Shouldn't corporations be legal entities, not "persons"? Shouldn't the people who screwed up this country, the bankers in particular, be held responsible for their actions? That's what I keep seeing from the OWS folks and I agree wholeheartedly.


actually we use this language already in the sense that Bush created "Homeland" Security....a term only used by nazi germany and yet no one has mentioned that. that being said, i'm quite undecided on my position in this specific argument. i think it's a slippery slope. i'm just not sure if we're already on it or if not...do i wanna go there?

[persiphone]

yet another comparison. i don't have words for this one,

http://www.hermes-press.com/germany1930.htm

[Cin]

We have to be vigilant and we have to understand what this is about.

Yes, I agree we have to be vigilant. And as I mentioned in 1933 when Hitler became chancellor of Germany it was a democracy.

It doesn't hurt to pay attention to history.

I certainly don't expect to have someone with Hitler's ideology become President and make himself a dictator. However, I am saying Germany's economic vulnerability brought about by WWI left it susceptible to fear tactics. Which is how Hitler rose to power. I don't think it is beyond the realm of possibility that human rights in the U.S. will continue to deteriorate over time if conditions continue to worsen. And while I wouldn't expect the U.S. to fall prey to the same kind of ideological crap that Hitler spewed, it is an unarguable reality that we have an unlimited amount of ideological crap just waiting for it's time in the sun. No harm in noticing the changes in our basic human rights.

That's all I'm saying.

[persiphone]

Yes, I agree we have to be vigilant. And as I mentioned in 1933 when Hitler became chancellor of Germany it was a democracy.

It doesn't hurt to pay attention to history.

I certainly don't expect to have someone with Hitler's ideology become President and make himself a dictator. However, I am saying Germany's economic vulnerability brought about by WWI left it susceptible to fear tactics. Which is how Hitler rose to power. I don't think it is beyond the realm of possibility that human rights in the U.S. will continue to deteriorate over time if conditions continue to worsen. And while I wouldn't expect the U.S. to fall prey to the same kind of ideological crap that Hitler spewed, it is an unarguable reality that we have an unlimited amount of ideological crap just waiting for it's time in the sun. No harm in noticing the changes in our basic human rights.

That's all I'm saying.


also i keep seeing people repeating the "history repeats itself" mantra in terms of genocide and yet we forget that it's already repeating itself in Africa. just cuz it hasn't happened in America yet, doesn't mean it's not happening anywhere. because it is and has been.

[Corkey]

http://morallowground.com/2011/11/17/retired-ny-supreme-court-justice-karen-smith-roughed-up-by-cops-for-intervening-in-brutal-beating-of-occupy-protesters-mom/

Just in case someone thinks it can't happen here.
She should have taken the cops names instead.

[Cin]

yet another comparison. i don't have words for this one,

http://www.hermes-press.com/germany1930.htm

Everybody and his brother uses the Nazi comparison. Maybe we need a fresh one.

[persiphone]

Everybody and his brother uses the Nazi comparison. Maybe we need a fresh one.


i just think it's worth looking at. some are crazy some are not so crazy. i think there are valid points amidst the noise.

[Cin]

also i keep seeing people repeating the "history repeats itself" mantra in terms of genocide and yet we forget that it's already repeating itself in Africa. just cuz it has happened in America yet, doesn't mean it's not happening anywhere. because it is and has been.

Yes, but it's so surprising when it happens to you. The U.S. government has been doing it to everyone else for years but when they turn on you it's always a shock.

I posted an article entitled "OWS, Police Brutality, and the War on Terror: An Empire State of Mind" that talks about when them chickens come home to roost.

[persiphone]

Yes, but it's so surprising when it happens to you. The U.S. government has been doing it to everyone else for years but when they turn on you it's always a shock.

I posted an article entitled "OWS, Police Brutality, and the War on Terror: An Empire State of Mind" that talks about when them chickens come home to roost.


i know. i read it. :) and very good points btw. i'm actually not as shocked as some others.

[Cin]

http://morallowground.com/2011/11/17/retired-ny-supreme-court-justice-karen-smith-roughed-up-by-cops-for-intervening-in-brutal-beating-of-occupy-protesters-mom/

Just in case someone thinks it can't happen here.
She should have taken the cops names instead.

It is getting out of hand. My concern is that it will continue to get worse. No one seems to know what to do to stop it.

[MsMerrick]

This a n event, hopefully you can read it , its on FB.. If you are anywhere near the NYC area, join in...
All Women's Assembly to End Violence Against Women + March to OWS! (http://www.facebook.com/events/107098372739617/)

[Diavolo]

Everybody and his brother uses the Nazi comparison. Maybe we need a fresh one.

I personally believe that it is one of those events in history which must be held with the highest of reverence lest it ever happen again. Tossing the terms around in lesser instances cheapens the horror of the atrocities committed in Nazi Germany. IMHO.

While I believe we need to be ever vigilant and I do believe there is a faction in this country that wants to push us to that direction, I also have faith in this country as a whole. I have a deep faith in the occupiers.

If history does indeed repeat itself, let us not forget, the hippies were right. The Gulf of Tonkin never happened, it was the figment of the imagination of an over excited radioman...according to Robert McNamara himself! Vietnam was a sham. A political sham. So is what is happening now, but I don't believe we are heading down the road to Hitler's Germany as long as we stand up and say "No!" Not as long as we still have judges and lawyers and Congress members that stand up and say "No!" with us. Right now we do. We have people in government who see the wrong. If the other half of this country would stop watching Faux News and start paying attention we might get somewhere.

[persiphone]

I personally believe that it is one of those events in history which must be held with the highest of reverence lest it ever happen again. Tossing the terms around in lesser instances cheapens the horror of the atrocities committed in Nazi Germany. IMHO.

While I believe we need to be ever vigilant and I do believe there is a faction in this country that wants to push us to that direction, I also have faith in this country as a whole. I have a deep faith in the occupiers.

If history does indeed repeat itself, let us not forget, the hippies were right. The Gulf of Tonkin never happened, it was the figment of the imagination of an over excited radioman...according to Robert McNamara himself! Vietnam was a sham. A political sham. So is what is happening now, but I don't believe we are heading down the road to Hitler's Germany as long as we stand up and say "No!" Not as long as we still have judges and lawyers and Congress members that stand up and say "No!" with us. Right now we do. We have people in government who see the wrong. If the other half of this country would stop watching Faux News and start paying attention we might get somewhere.

but it HAS happened again. IS happening. in Africa. smh.

[atomiczombie]

I personally believe that it is one of those events in history which must be held with the highest of reverence lest it ever happen again. Tossing the terms around in lesser instances cheapens the horror of the atrocities committed in Nazi Germany. IMHO.

I couldn't agree with this more. It's not just lesser instances. What the Germans did was on a whole different scale. They committed mass murder and were the most blatantly racist and oppressive regime in modern history.

What is going on today in the US is a crime; our "democracy" is a sham; our civil liberties are threatened and our freedoms are infringed upon. But we are not in danger of being rounded up into camps and being executed for our political beliefs. If it comes to a day where we are in danger of that, then I will say this is like the Nazis.

[Corkey]

I couldn't agree with this more. It's not just lesser instances. What the Germans did was on a whole different scale. They committed mass murder and were the most blatantly racist and oppressive regime in modern history.

What is going on today in the US is a crime; our "democracy" is a sham; our civil liberties are threatened and our freedoms are infringed upon. But we are not in danger of being rounded up into camps and being executed for our political beliefs. If it comes to a day where we are in danger of that, then I will say this is like the Nazis.

I prefer not to wait. That is exactly what happened in Nazi Germany, people thought it could never happen, it did, and history is repeating itself because good people think it will never happen to them.

[persiphone]

current genocides happening right now~


In 2004, Yad Vashem, in response to the BBC documentary, "Access to Evil", which includes witness testimonies from camp survivors and a former guard of gas chambers and mass killings occurring systematically in the camps, called on the international community in 2004 to investigate “political genocide” in North Korea, yet no substantial action has been taken to this day to interven.

In September 2011, the Harvard International Review published an article which argued that North Korea was violating the UN Genocide Convention in every possible way, through its systematic killing of half-Chinese babies and religious groups

The ruling military regime in Burma is one of the world’s most oppressive and abusive. Currently, the Burmese government is involved in a military campaign against the largest indigenous ethnic group in Eastern Burma, the Karen. The Karen practice Christianity, whereas Burma is a mostly Buddhist nation. The militarized government has developed plans to eliminate those who do not fit in to what is thought of as being “Burmese.” Many Karen accuse the Burmese government of “ethnic cleansing” due to major counter-insurgency campaigns that have led to widespread mass atrocities against the Karen people. Such atrocities include summary execution, severe torture and rape, as well as forced labor, extortion and displacement. Aid agencies estimate that more than 200,000 Karen have been driven from their homes during the decades of conflict.

The “Darfur Genocide” refers to the current mass slaughter and rape of Darfuri men, women and children in Western Sudan. The killings began in 2003 and continue still today, as the first genocide in the 21st century.

The genocide is being carried out by a group of government-armed and funded Arab militias known as the Janjaweed (which loosely translates to ‘devils on horseback’). The Janjaweed systematically destroy Darfurians by burning villages, looting economic resources, polluting water sources, and murdering, raping, and torturing civilians. These militias are historic rivals of the main rebel groups, the Sudanese Liberation Movement (SLM), and the Justice and Equality Movement (JEM). As of today, over 480,000 people have been killed, and over 2.8 million people are displaced.

Since 1996, the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC; Congo) has been embroiled in violence that has killed as many as 5.4 million people. The conflict has been the world’s bloodiest since World War II. The First and Second Congo Wars, which sparked the violence, involved multiple foreign armies and investors from Rwanda, Zimbabwe, Angola, Namibia, Chad, Libya and Sudan, among others, and has been so devastating that it is sometimes called the “African World War.”

Fighting continues in the eastern parts of the country, destroying infrastructure, causing physical and psychological damage to civilians, and creating human rights violations on a mass scale. Rape is being used as a weapon of war, and large-scale plunder and murder are also occurring as part of efforts to displace people on resource-rich land.

Today, most of the fighting is taking place in North and South Kivu, on the DRC/Rwanda border. Some fighting is political, resulting from unrest caused by Hutu refugees from the Rwandan genocide now living in DRC, while other fighting results from an international demand for natural resources. DRC has large quantities of gold, copper, diamonds, and coltan (a mineral used in cell phones), which many parties desire to control for monetary reasons. However, money from the sales of these resources has not reached average citizens. Currently the education, healthcare, legal, and road systems are in shambles.


Since 1991, clan warfare has besieged Somalia. The United Nations has called the current situation in Somalia the “world’s worst humanitarian disaster.” At the end of January 2009, Sheikh Sharif Ahmed was elected President of Somalia with the hope that his administration will bring stability to Somalia and implement the Djibouti Peace Process of 2000. However, violence has continued unabated. At the end of 2009, nearly 700,000 Somalis were under the responsibility of the United Nations High Commission for Refugees, constituting the third largest refugee group in the world after war-afflicted Iraq and Afghanistan, respectively.



and here's the link in case anyone is interested~

http://worldwithoutgenocide.org/about-us

[persiphone]

I couldn't agree with this more. It's not just lesser instances. What the Germans did was on a whole different scale. They committed mass murder and were the most blatantly racist and oppressive regime in modern history.

What is going on today in the US is a crime; our "democracy" is a sham; our civil liberties are threatened and our freedoms are infringed upon. But we are not in danger of being rounded up into camps and being executed for our political beliefs. If it comes to a day where we are in danger of that, then I will say this is like the Nazis.


instead we have for profit prisons *shudder* and that horrid guantanamo, where your rights and all moral reason go right out the window.

edited to add....you don't need to be foreign and/or of middle eastern descent to be sent to guantanamo, incidentally.

[Diavolo]

Persiphone, I didn't say that genocide isn't happening in other countries. It is. Arguably we just deposed two ruthless dictators that were doing exactly that. But that's not the subject here. The subject is occupy wall street and the references are not appropriate to what the police are doing.

Are the police breaking the law? Yes. Will there be repercussions from it? Probably. But they aren't rounding up OWS protesters in the US and putting them in death camps. And outrage still remains at the brutality. When that stops we have a problem.

[persiphone]

Persiphone, I didn't say that genocide isn't happening in other countries. It is. Arguably we just deposed two ruthless dictators that were doing exactly that. But that's not the subject here. The subject is occupy wall street and the references are not appropriate to what the police are doing.

Are the police breaking the law? Yes. Will there be repercussions from it? Probably. But they aren't rounding up OWS protesters in the US and putting them in death camps. And outrage still remains at the brutality. When that stops we have a problem.


i didn't say you didn't. my point is simply that genocide is not unique to the holocaust and i'd also like to point out that the infrastructure is certainly in place here by means of for profit prisons and the existence of guantanomo as well as the existence of The Patriot Act. all i'm saying is that while i'm not sure if something along the lines of the holocuast is possible here, i'm definitely NOT saying that something along those lines is NOT possible either. it may not happen identically, but i'm not willing to say that something similar could NOT happen. and i think that it's something that people should be aware of. we clearly don't have the rights we thought we had even in the aftermath of things like for profit prisons, guatanomo, and The Patriot Act and that's apparent by the seemingly endless supply of videos of police brutality on protesters across America. it's just something to think about. i don't think there should be heirarchies of importance on genocides that occur on this planet. because they are all important and all horrific. i don't see one as being less than the other unless you're talking strictly in terms of body count.

[kannon]

I couldn't agree with this more. It's not just lesser instances. What the Germans did was on a whole different scale. They committed mass murder and were the most blatantly racist and oppressive regime in modern history.

What is going on today in the US is a crime; our "democracy" is a sham; our civil liberties are threatened and our freedoms are infringed upon. But we are not in danger of being rounded up into camps and being executed for our political beliefs. If it comes to a day where we are in danger of that, then I will say this is like the Nazis.

That depends on who you are. Something like 10% of black men in their 20's are incarcerated. A disproportionate number of those executed are black men.

[persiphone]

this has given me a lot to think about. i think that we are confusing terms across the board. by very definition, "genocide" is probably not possible in America. because genocide is, according to Dictionary.com , "the deliberate and systematic extermination of a national, racial, political, or cultural group." i think OWS, as a group, can't be boxed into any one of those wholly because all of those groups are included and represented in the movement in all of those individual descriptor's varieties. so what IS the term?

[Corkey]

this has given me a lot to think about. i think that we are confusing terms across the board. by very definition, "genocide" is probably not possible in America. because genocide is, according to Dictionary.com , "the deliberate and systematic extermination of a national, racial, political, or cultural group." i think OWS, as a group, can't be boxed into any one of those wholly because all of those groups are included and represented in the movement in all of those individual descriptor's varieties. so what IS the term?

Talk to a race of people it's happing to as we speak. Native Americans of all Nations.

[persiphone]

Talk to a race of people it's happing to as we speak. Native Americans of all Nations.

no, i know. and i debated with myself about including that lil tidbit of info and what we did to the Native Americans after arriving here. the numbers are pretty shocking. you won't read about that in our history books, either.

what i'm saying is, that the OWS movement contains all races, all political parties, all nationalities, and most cultures. so then how can we say that genocide is possible by the very definition of genocide because for it to be labeled as such, one specific group out of the above mentioned would have to be targeted. or.....are we saying that OWS is it's own political entity, much like a democrat or a republican? because i thought that the movement was much more fluid than that. so, "technically", it couldn't be labeled as on the road to genocide. is it as equally perilous? i think it's possible, yes. could it be as devastating as the holocaust? gawd i hope not. i wouldn't want to lose any more family, chosen or blood related.

[Corkey]

The human race is on the road to self destruction, we can debate all day long who that includes, but its safe to say we as a Nation are the ones responsible for out own woos, we've done it to our selves by not voting and by being complacent.

[persiphone]

The human race is on the road to self destruction, we can debate all day long who that includes, but its safe to say we as a Nation are the ones responsible for out own woos, we've done it to our selves by not voting and by being complacent.


is this where i can bitch about methods of voter suppression? :hamactor:

[atomiczombie]

A huge part of the financial crisis of 2008 was an out of control derivatives market. Derivatives are basically bets that corporations make on whether the markets will go up or down. It's WAY more complicated than that, but that's the best I can do in one sentence. In the late 90's a financial regulator in the Clinton administration tried to impose regulations on over the counter derivatives, and here's what happened:

TtJql2aqjkw

The scary fact is that the Dodd-Frank bill didn't include any regulation of the derivatives market. So basically, there is nothing in place to prevent the financial collapse of 2008 from happening again just as easily. Gah!

[Diavolo]

Yes, but it's so surprising when it happens to you. The U.S. government has been doing it to everyone else for years but when they turn on you it's always a shock.

I posted an article entitled "OWS, Police Brutality, and the War on Terror: An Empire State of Mind" that talks about when them chickens come home to roost.

That's what I never understand. If we allow our government to do it to someone else what makes us think they won't do it to us?

Where can I find your article? Is it the one on Common Dreams?

[persiphone]

That's what I never understand. If we allow our government to do it to someone else what makes us think they won't do it to us?

Where can I find your article? Is it the one on Common Dreams?


post #1106 on page 56 :)

[AtLast]

is this where i can bitch about methods of voter suppression? :hamactor:

Yes, bitch!! Right now there are many voter suppression campaigns going on in many states, mainly via the Republican party.

The OWS movement ought to be moving us all to action, including fighting these efforts. There is a part of me that agrees with Corkey about how many years the 98/99% did not remain active in our democracy. We do have to participate in a democracy in order for it to represent us.

As much as I hate to say it- the Tea Party has gained power because it decided not to stand by and allow government run without considering the core values of those that "belong" to it. It went right into our political system via our democratic vehicles of organizing and voting in blocks. It has redefined conservatism in the US to an extreme that big business simply loves.

The work we need to do is far beyond protesting in the streets.

[Cin]

no, i know. and i debated with myself about including that lil tidbit of info and what we did to the Native Americans after arriving here. the numbers are pretty shocking. you won't read about that in our history books, either.

what i'm saying is, that the OWS movement contains all races, all political parties, all nationalities, and most cultures. so then how can we say that genocide is possible by the very definition of genocide because for it to be labeled as such, one specific group out of the above mentioned would have to be targeted. or.....are we saying that OWS is it's own political entity, much like a democrat or a republican? because i thought that the movement was much more fluid than that. so, "technically", it couldn't be labeled as on the road to genocide. is it as equally perilous? i think it's possible, yes. could it be as devastating as the holocaust? gawd i hope not. i wouldn't want to lose any more family, chosen or blood related.
I think maybe Nazi/Gestapo references don't translate well. I've been tossing this around in my head trying to put my finger on it. Nazi Germany is synonymous with genocide. I don't see genocide as an issue for the U.S. At least not in that a particular group would be targeted, other than dissenters. If the elimination of dissenting voices can be called a kind of genocide then perhaps we could worry about it.

I think what we are heading toward are police forces more like the Tonton Macoutes, the Haitian paramilitary force created by François 'Papa Doc' Duvalier, rather than the Gestapo. That we are looking at evolving paramilitary police forces around the country cannot be denied. That they seek to silence us and make protesting extremely costly is also without doubt. As things worsen and as more people feel the need to point that out, we may see our newly evolving police state turn deadly. The more clearly those who control the paramilitary police understand how easily it is to to shut us down, the more they get away with, the more violence goes unanswered by our elected officials or by anyone at all really, the closer we come to living in fear of our very own Tonton Macoutes.

[Toughy]

If history does indeed repeat itself, let us not forget, the hippies were right. The Gulf of Tonkin never happened, it was the figment of the imagination of an over excited radioman...according to Robert McNamara himself!

Actually there were 2 reported incidents in the Gulf of Tonkin in Aug of 64. The first one did happen and the second one did not happen. It was the second incident that resulted in Congress giving Johnson the power to really go to Vietnam. Years later it finally came out that the second incident never occurred.

So yes there was a real Gulf of Tonkin incident (North Vietnamese navy firing on a US warship in the Gulf) and a fabricated incident a couple of days later.

[atomiczombie]

http://i813.photobucket.com/albums/zz56/atomiczombie/berniequote.jpg

The Super Committee is deadlocked - no surprise there. The triggers that are set in place won't actually happen until 2013 - well after the 2012 election. So they have another year or so to fight over the budget and avoid the triggers. Talk about kicking the can down the road! *shakes head*

[persiphone]

I think maybe Nazi/Gestapo references don't translate well. I've been tossing this around in my head trying to put my finger on it. Nazi Germany is synonymous with genocide. I don't see genocide as an issue for the U.S. At least not in that a particular group would be targeted, other than dissenters. If the elimination of dissenting voices can be called a kind of genocide then perhaps we could worry about it.

I think what we are heading toward are police forces more like the Tonton Macoutes, the Haitian paramilitary force created by François 'Papa Doc' Duvalier, rather than the Gestapo. That we are looking at evolving paramilitary police forces around the country cannot be denied. That they seek to silence us and make protesting extremely costly is also without doubt. As things worsen and as more people feel the need to point that out, we may see our newly evolving police state turn deadly. The more clearly those who control the paramilitary police understand how easily it is to to shut us down, the more they get away with, the more violence goes unanswered by our elected officials or by anyone at all really, the closer we come to living in fear of our very own Tonton Macoutes.

i was talking about the reactions of police to a corrections officer i know (and hopefully hy'll post about it *hint hint nudge nudge*) and basically our police force is not trained on how to deal with protests of this magnitude and are only trained in how to deal with rioting. hence, the riot response to a peaceful protest. my question is....now that they've used riot response tactics on peaceful protesters....will they step back and start practicing tactful responses to a peaceful protest rather than the overkill we've seen up to this point? i think that's what will define which road this is going to go down. i'm afraid that the police reactions are just going to escalate the violence and i'm afraid that this is actually the point, so that they have an excuse to continue along these lines of force and brutality.

[persiphone]

sorry if this has already been posted....looks like beating and arrests aren't just for dirty hippies, the unemployed, the eldery, and the homeless...

http://morallowground.com/2011/11/15/ydanis-rodriguez-new-york-city-councilman-brutally-beaten-arrested-during-occupy-wall-street-eviction-raid/

[AtLast]

sorry if this has already been posted....looks like beating and arrests aren't just for dirty hippies, the unemployed, the eldery, and the homeless...

http://morallowground.com/2011/11/15/ydanis-rodriguez-new-york-city-councilman-brutally-beaten-arrested-during-occupy-wall-street-eviction-raid/

Yes, anyone out there protesting could be subject to the insane methods being used by police.

And students that have paid tuiton, will be in debt when they graduate into an economy in which there are few jobs available to them. They are being pepper sprayed on campus while they are demonstrating passively and without malice.

I know that because I teach community college students, I have a bias, but, in CA, the rise in costs for students throughout our college and university systems has doubled in 1 academic year!! New increases are in the works as well.

A huge number of college students that were key in electing Obama 3 years ago will be finishing college by the time of the general election. Will they be supporting him??? They don't exactly have a lot to look forward to starting out. I graduated during a recession and when Jimmy Carter was in office. I didn't have many options and knew I would not be employed in the area I just earned a degree in, but, there were many more jobs available to grads then that they could take and build experience in the workplace and later do what they studied for. This is not true for our young people today unless they are in science and math and even then, the competition is great.

So many of my students were laid off and are seeking new employment skills. They have kids and are often working part-time to make ends meet. Some are returning vets that are not finding work. Community colleges have high numbers of POC also and are often the heart of smaller towns.

I see so much depression and fear about the future in these students. Yes, I eventually was able to work in areas I wanted to, but I don't feel optimism about this for kids in college right now. I have never felt this negative about this.

[SoNotHer]

http://act.credoaction.com/campaign/violence_uc/?r_by=30861-2059182-0IvLUXx&rc=confemail

Tell the University of California: Ban the use of chemical agents and physical violence against peaceful protester


Last week at the University of California at Davis, campus police dressed in riot gear sprayed nonviolent protesters with chemical agents. A dramatic video captures the scene. The protesters kneeling. Arms linked. They posed no threat to the officers. The officers standing above them. Dousing them with pepper spray.1

Social movements in this country have a long tradition of using civil disobedience to challenge injustice. Protesters with a deep commitment to social change peacefully disobey an order to disperse and the police must make mass arrests in order to end the protest.

What the authorities at the University of California have done is employ the use of chemical agents to stop protesters from exercising their First Amendment rights. They clearly fear that the size, commitment and growing power of the Occupy protests is so great that they will fill up their jails -- not on one day, but every day -- if they want to put a stop to the movement.

Tell Mark G. Yudof, president of the University of California, and Sherry Lansing, chairperson of the University of California Board of Regents, to protect protesters' First Amendment rights to peaceably assemble, and ban the use of chemical agents and/or physical violence against nonviolent protesters on all University of California campuses.

Outrageously, the chancellor of the University of California at Davis, Linda P.B. Katehi, initially defended the actions of the officers but today finally placed the chief of the campus police on administrative leave pending a review. The UC Davis faculty association is calling for Katehi's resignation. 2

This is not just happening at the campus in Davis. In Berkeley, Robert Hass, a 70-year-old former poet laureate of the United States and Pulitzer Prize winner, described how he and his wife were beaten by police while peacefully assembling in solidarity with campus Occupy protesters.

In an op-ed piece in the New York Times, Hass notes that the violent actions against peaceful protesters on the Berkeley campus are thrown into particularly high relief as the protests there are taking place where the Free Speech Movement was launched almost 50 years ago, quoting Mario Savio's famous call to action: "There is a time ... when the operation of the machine becomes so odious, makes you so sick at heart, that you can't take part. You can't even passively take part." 3

The University of California Board of Regents has ultimate responsibility for the actions of authorities at all University of California campuses, including Davis and Berkeley. The president and chairperson of this board must take decisive action to protect the First Amendment rights of student, faculty and the campus communities -- rights that are so clearly under violent attack.

Tell Mark G. Yudof, president of the University of California, and Sherry Lansing, chairperson of the University of California Board of Regents, to protect protesters' First Amendment rights to peaceably assemble, and ban the use of chemical agents and/or physical violence against nonviolent protesters on all University of California campuses.

From Mahatma Gandhi to Martin Luther King, Jr. to Mario Savio, nonviolent civil disobedience is an time-honored form of protest. If authorities allow police in riot gear to simply use chemical agents and violence, instead of arrests, to remove peaceful protesters respectfully decline to follow an order to disperse, then they will not only be taking away our fundamental rights, they will implicitly be encouraging more violent forms of resistance.

The community response to the events in Davis have been overwhelming. In the coming days we may see resignations at the highest level. But what's at stake is not just the job of the chancellor of the University of California at Davis or its campus police chief. It's about whether the right to free speech on campus will endure. That's why we need the President and the Chairperson of the UC Board of Regents to protect the rights of protesters on every UC campus, and to set a precedent for universities not just in California but nationwide.

[atomiczombie]

Yes, anyone out there protesting could be subject to the insane methods being used by police.

And students that have paid tuiton, will be in debt when they graduate into an economy in which there are few jobs available to them. They are being pepper sprayed on campus while they are demonstrating passively and without malice.

I know that because I teach community college students, I have a bias, but, in CA, the rise in costs for students throughout our college and university systems has doubled in 1 academic year!! New increases are in the works as well.

A huge number of college students that were key in electing Obama 3 years ago will be finishing college by the time of the general election. Will they be supporting him??? They don't exactly have a lot to look forward to starting out. I graduated during a recession and when Jimmy Carter was in office. I didn't have many options and knew I would not be employed in the area I just earned a degree in, but, there were many more jobs available to grads then that they could take and build experience in the workplace and later do what they studied for. This is not true for our young people today unless they are in science and math and even then, the competition is great.

So many of my students were laid off and are seeking new employment skills. They have kids and are often working part-time to make ends meet. Some are returning vets that are not finding work. Community colleges have high numbers of POC also and are often the heart of smaller towns.

I see so much depression and fear about the future in these students. Yes, I eventually was able to work in areas I wanted to, but I don't feel optimism about this for kids in college right now. I have never felt this negative about this.

Back when I first went to a community college (1989), tuition was $5 per unit.

[atomiczombie]

For anyone who thinks that the protestors don't know why they are protesting:

-1iQIaeGvEY

[Cin]

sorry if this has already been posted....looks like beating and arrests aren't just for dirty hippies, the unemployed, the eldery, and the homeless...

http://morallowground.com/2011/11/15/ydanis-rodriguez-new-york-city-councilman-brutally-beaten-arrested-during-occupy-wall-street-eviction-raid/

No, apparently they are also for poet laureates as well. Robert Hass, former poet laureate of the United States, tells about his experience at Berkley.
http://www.commondreams.org/view/2011/11/21-5



But you know we could post article after article, we could fill this thread with pictures, videos and stories about peaceful protestors being attacked, shot with less lethal weapons, clubbed, gassed, pepper sprayed and otherwise brutalized but to what end? The most important question of all is what can we do about it. How can we stop this? How can we make our elected officials protect our right to speak out and to engage in non violent protests? What can we do to stop them from silencing our voices? And why have we heard nothing at all from our president?

Here are quotes from the president and the secretary of state that are filled with concern for the peaceful protestors in Egypt. What about United States citizens? In the words of Obama the U.S. will stand up for human rights everywhere. Everywhere apparently but here at home in the place where he is president.

It's kind of scary to realize that these two people are considered to be liberals. They are two politicians that we would expect would defend human rights. And they do. Just not ours.

President Obama:
"I want to be very clear in calling upon the Egyptian authorities to refrain from any violence against peaceful protestors.
The people of Egypt have rights that are universal. That includes the right to peaceful assembly and association, the right to free speech, and the ability to determine their own destiny. These are human rights. And the United States will stand up for them everywhere."

Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton:
"We are deeply concerned about the use of violence by Egyptian police and security forces against protesters, and we call on the Egyptian government to do everything in its power to restrain the security forces."

Here at home not a word. They are as silent as they wish us to be.

[atomiczombie]

No, apparently they are also for poet laureates as well. Robert Hass, former poet laureate of the United States, tells about his experience at Berkley.
http://www.commondreams.org/view/2011/11/21-5



But you know we could post article after article, we could fill this thread with pictures, videos and stories about peaceful protestors being attacked, shot with less lethal weapons, clubbed, gassed, pepper sprayed and otherwise brutalized but to what end? The most important question of all is what can we do about it. How can we stop this? How can we make our elected officials protect our right to speak out and to engage in non violent protests? What can we do to stop them from silencing our voices? And why have we heard nothing at all from our president?

Here are quotes from the president and the secretary of state that are filled with concern for the peaceful protestors in Egypt. What about United States citizens? In the words of Obama the U.S. will stand up for human rights everywhere. Everywhere apparently but here at home in the place where he is president.

It's kind of scary to realize that these two people are considered to be liberals. They are two politicians that we would expect would defend human rights. And they do. Just not ours.

President Obama:
"I want to be very clear in calling upon the Egyptian authorities to refrain from any violence against peaceful protestors.
The people of Egypt have rights that are universal. That includes the right to peaceful assembly and association, the right to free speech, and the ability to determine their own destiny. These are human rights. And the United States will stand up for them everywhere."

Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton:
"We are deeply concerned about the use of violence by Egyptian police and security forces against protesters, and we call on the Egyptian government to do everything in its power to restrain the security forces."

Here at home not a word. They are as silent as they wish us to be.

Yes, the Obama administration's silence about police violence against protestors here at home really irks me. It clearly shows who side he is on. I am sad that I supported him in 2008.

Something that concerns me about all the press and uproar about police brutality is that having all the focus be on that takes the focus off of the reason people are protesting in the first place, with respect to national media coverage. However, I doubt the national media cares much to cover the reasons for the protests. In fact, their favorite way to deal with that is to say it's unfocused and there is no real message. Which is bullshit of course.

[Ebon]

Yes, the Obama administration's silence about police violence against protestors here at home really irks me. It clearly shows who side he is on. I am sad that I supported him in 2008.

Something that concerns me about all the press and uproar about police brutality is that having all the focus be on that takes the focus off of the reason people are protesting in the first place, with respect to national media coverage. However, I doubt the national media cares much to cover the reasons for the protests. In fact, their favorite way to deal with that is to say it's unfocused and there is no real message. Which is bullshit of course.

Did you expect anything different? The media is corporate owned. They aren't going to support OWS. They aren't going to allow them to wake up the sleeping masses.

[UofMfan]

So,apparently it is OK to camp at UC Davies (http://dateline.ucdavis.edu/dl_detail.lasso?id=10142) for March Madness and have pizza delivered to you by the women's basketball team, and they even set up a Foosball table for your entertainment, but it is not OK to camp for OWS. Interesting.

[AtLast]

Well, I don't want to see Newt Ginrich as president- yesterday when asked about OWS he said he thinks all the protesters should get a job- then added, "First they should take a bath and then get a job." Frankly, since I began voting back in the early 70's there has never been a viable candidate that totally aligned with my political convictions. Not one. And Al Gore would have won in 2000 if not for Ralph Nader, it was so close. And I couldn't get behind Nader even though I was registered Green back then.

I have heard Obama speak in support of the issues OWS is bringing to the surface, many times. And to be honest, I am much more upset with Governors not speaking up and out about the police within their state- they are the ones that have more direct power what is going on in their state. What the hell can Obama do on a state level with police? I am quite upset with Gov Brown here in CA.

[atomiczombie]

Well, I don't want to see Newt Ginrich as president- yesterday when asked about OWS he said he thinks all the protesters should get a job- then added, "First they should take a bath and then get a job." Frankly, since I began voting back in the early 70's there has never been a viable candidate that totally aligned with my political convictions. Not one. And Al Gore would have won in 2000 if not for Ralph Nader, it was so close. And I couldn't get behind Nader even though I was registered Green back then.

I have heard Obama speak in support of the issues OWS is bringing to the surface, many times. And to be honest, I am much more upset with Governors not speaking up and out about the police within their state- they are the ones that have more direct power what is going on in their state. What the hell can Obama do on a state level with police? I am quite upset with Gov Brown here in CA.

Al Gore would have won if the conservative Supreme Court would have upheld the constitution and allowed the recount to happen. Ralph Nader had nothing to do with that.

As for what Obama can do about violence by state police against peaceful protestors? Well, he can speak out for one thing. He hasn't said one damn word about it.

[kannon]

http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2011/11/corporate-monarchy/

[Corkey]

So apparently police brutality and genocide only applies to people living within the confines of the borders of the US. Correct? Um who do you all think the corporations test their stuff on first? Having been in the military and law enforcement do you not think I have a bit of inside information? Nahhh ... go ahead deny, it will bite one in the behind one day.

[Diavolo]

Actually there were 2 reported incidents in the Gulf of Tonkin in Aug of 64. The first one did happen and the second one did not happen. It was the second incident that resulted in Congress giving Johnson the power to really go to Vietnam. Years later it finally came out that the second incident never occurred.

So yes there was a real Gulf of Tonkin incident (North Vietnamese navy firing on a US warship in the Gulf) and a fabricated incident a couple of days later.

Yes, I left the first one out because we went to war over the second one, which didn't happen. But I got a lot of butch on butch love for your history schoolin'

[ruffryder]

I have seen much debate on the UC Davis pepper spraying incident. I think this will have a huge impact on the OWS movement and protestors. I look forward to seeing what becomes of this incident and how it will affect what happens with tactics and force in time to come with protesting and occupying.

[SoNotHer]

"I wrote back suggesting that I am a happy dude, and its not Anger — its closer to an ineffable sadness that comes once you realize you have lost something dear. I am old enough to have grown up when this nation was a Democracy, but that era has passed. We now live in a nation no longer run by the citizens — it is a Corporatocracy — and that makes me sadder than angry ..."

Great piece, Kannon. Thank you for posting it.


http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2011/11/corporate-monarchy/

[Slater]

http://www.alternet.org/occupywallst/153111/police_chief_who_oversaw_1999_wto_crackdown_says_p aramilitary_policing_is_a_disaster/?page=entire

Norm Stamper certainly made mistakes as Chief of Police in Seattle, but he was willing to learn from them. I think he offers a few important insights in the article linked above:

1) That although the 1999 "Battle in Seattle" should have served as a primer of what NOT to do for law enforcement agencies, the opposite has happened. It has ushered in an era of increased militarization of law enforcement. He writes: "The paramilitary bureaucracy and the culture it engenders—a black-and-white world in which police unions serve above all to protect the brotherhood—is worse today than it was in the 1990s. Such agencies inevitably view protesters as the enemy."
2) That militaristic policing causes violence. "My support for a militaristic solution caused all hell to break loose," Stamper says. He's right. It did.
3) That 9/11, or more specifically the government's heavy-handed response and exploitation of public fears, has fueled the current crisis in law enforcement. "[T]he federal government began providing military equipment and training even to some of the smallest rural departments ... Everyday policing is characterized by a SWAT mentality, every other 911 call a military mission."

The whole article is worth a read. One thing I have been thinking about that he didn't touch on is the way that the proliferation of non-lethal (or really, less-lethal) weapons has made police forces considerably more aggressive and considerably less concerned about consequences, even in this day when almost everything is captured on video. These tools that were supposed to allow officers to defend themselves without killing people have instead become offensive weapons deployed to secure compliance (or, it seems, sometimes just as a show of dominance) rather than to secure the officer's safety.

[AtLast]

http://www.alternet.org/occupywallst/153111/police_chief_who_oversaw_1999_wto_crackdown_says_p aramilitary_policing_is_a_disaster/?page=entire

Norm Stamper certainly made mistakes as Chief of Police in Seattle, but he was willing to learn from them. I think he offers a few important insights in the article linked above:

1) That although the 1999 "Battle in Seattle" should have served as a primer of what NOT to do for law enforcement agencies, the opposite has happened. It has ushered in an era of increased militarization of law enforcement. He writes: "The paramilitary bureaucracy and the culture it engenders—a black-and-white world in which police unions serve above all to protect the brotherhood—is worse today than it was in the 1990s. Such agencies inevitably view protesters as the enemy."
2) That militaristic policing causes violence. "My support for a militaristic solution caused all hell to break loose," Stamper says. He's right. It did.
3) That 9/11, or more specifically the government's heavy-handed response and exploitation of public fears, has fueled the current crisis in law enforcement. "[T]he federal government began providing military equipment and training even to some of the smallest rural departments ... Everyday policing is characterized by a SWAT mentality, every other 911 call a military mission."

The whole article is worth a read. One thing I have been thinking about that he didn't touch on is the way that the proliferation of non-lethal (or really, less-lethal) weapons has made police forces considerably more aggressive and considerably less concerned about consequences, even in this day when almost everything is captured on video. These tools that were supposed to allow officers to defend themselves without killing people have instead become offensive weapons deployed to secure compliance (or, it seems, sometimes just as a show of dominance) rather than to secure the officer's safety.


Yes, what you say above (I bolded and underlined) seems so true to me. This whole thing about non-lethality of these kinds of weapons (and they are weapons) has given license to using them in situations not calling for them at all- and the public has accepted this. There is new information that the manufacturers of stun-guns like Tasers (a brand name) not giving the full story about how they can kill a person. They have not really given police department the real data!! So, departments have been developing crowd control and even perp apprehension tactics based upon faulty information. Then there is the fact that some (and it is a very small number) of police have aggressive personality traits that point to the fact that they shouldn't even be in law enforcement.

I wonder too- about all the TV cop shows and the displays of force used by characters that we see continually. How has that influenced the public about these tactics? I have heard from cops that they would be fired on the spot for a lot of the things TV cop heros do.

This may sound hoaky, but, I do respect police and I think they have a very difficult job. I support whatever equipment and training they receive for their own protection. However, something is really wrong here with the lack of training about differences in crowds like citizens exercising protest in a non-violent manner and that is not trying to stick it to cops.

So many of the incidences over the last couple of months just seem like waiting out dispersal by police would have been the best thing. Yes, they need to make certain emergency routes are open, but why don't they send in officers to "talk" through what is needed to keep people safe first- kind of like officers trained in negotiation with hostage situations. I might be very naive here, but, it just seems like the entire police crowd control of un-armed citizens needs to be overhauled and updated. And these kinds of weapons have influenced more responses of a first-aggressive nature based upon the false premise of these weapons are not harmful.

Could be talking up my own rear- I do not have any law enforcement expertise at all.

I think with what happened at UCD and has gone viral may help in law enforcement having to re-evaluate these tactics and make a lot of changes.

[ruby_woo]

Honestly, I've been wondering how much of the violence is due to simple disdain for the protestors? My uncle has been cop for about 20 years, and he's been going on lately about how back his day he was too busy focusing on how he could contribute to society and how he would support himself and how it never crossed his mind that anyone owed him anything blahblahblah. Then all his cop buddies chime in and agree.

And he's not even one of the aggressive jerk cops. He rescues kittens.

I'm not trying to present "anecdata" in an argument or anything, but it's been hard for me to ignore what's right in front of me. Like AtLast, I could be talking up my own rear. :)

[Cin]

Honestly, I've been wondering how much of the violence is due to simple disdain for the protestors?

So when cops have disdain for someone they can just spray them in the face with pepper spray? Even when they are just standing there doing nothing, like those women at Occupy Wall St caught on camera being sprayed in the face by a white shirt for no discernible reason. You can open their mouth and spray pepper spray down their throat if you have disdain for them. Or you shoot them with rubber bullets when they are asking you if they are okay or too close if you have disdain for them. Or if the cops have disdain they can beat the crap out of a transperson or a queer. If cops have disdain they can act as they please, is that the idea? Too bad they don’t have some disdain for child molesters and rapists.

[ruby_woo]

So when cops have disdain for someone they can just spray them in the face with pepper spray? Even when they are just standing there doing nothing, like those women at Occupy Wall St caught on camera being sprayed in the face by a white shirt for no discernible reason. You can open their mouth and spray pepper spray down their throat if you have disdain for them. Or you shoot them with rubber bullets when they are asking you if they are okay or too close if you have disdain for them. Or if the cops have disdain they can beat the crap out of a transperson or a queer. If cops have disdain they can act as they please, is that the idea? Too bad they don’t have some disdain for child molesters and rapists.

I'm not saying I think it's acceptable at all, definitely not was I was trying to imply...

But could lack of training + disdain for the group in front of you lead to making jerk decisions? Maybe.

In Slater's post (sorry, I don't know how to double quote), he mentioned Norm Stamper saying "The paramilitary bureaucracy and the culture it engenders—a black-and-white world in which police unions serve above all to protect the brotherhood—is worse today than it was in the 1990s. Such agencies inevitably view protesters as the enemy."

[SoNotHer]

I appreciate your voice, Ruby Woo, and I am really grateful to hear about your uncle. I talk with the police in my neighborhood, and I have worked with some very compassionate police on the issue of prostitution.

I think we have to start to address perceptions. I think we have to talk about why protestors are perceived as malcontents with no real point or cause and how that view gets used. Perhaps some are, or perhaps some are the like the people I've stood with who have lost homes, have no healthcare, have lost all of their personal savings in a bad 401K, an underwater mortgage or a medical bankruptcy.

Personally, I find the desire to protest and speak up for a more equal and just society not only welcome but brave and one of the most hopeful things I have seen in my voting lifetime.

But most of all, I think we have to allow people to exercise their right to disagree and to even protest without fear of violence. Without these, I think we're looking at something other than a democracy.

Honestly, I've been wondering how much of the violence is due to simple disdain for the protestors? My uncle has been cop for about 20 years, and he's been going on lately about how back his day he was too busy focusing on how he could contribute to society and how he would support himself and how it never crossed his mind that anyone owed him anything blahblahblah. Then all his cop buddies chime in and agree.

And he's not even one of the aggressive jerk cops. He rescues kittens.

I'm not trying to present "anecdata" in an argument or anything, but it's been hard for me to ignore what's right in front of me. Like AtLast, I could be talking up my own rear. :)

[Corkey]

http://www.fictionews.com/news/105/BREAKING---UC-Davis-Chancellor-Resigns-After-Pike-Pepper-Spray-Incident-full-news-story.html

Good news for UC Davis students.

[Corkey]

http://www.fictionews.com/news/105/BREAKING---UC-Davis-Chancellor-Resigns-After-Pike-Pepper-Spray-Incident-full-news-story.html

Good news for UC Davis students.

Sorry all looks bogus.

[Toughy]

When individual police officers assault peaceful citizens with chemical or other 'non-lethal' weapons they should be arrested for assault at a minimum...

If individual police officers get away with this......a police state follows...

Seattle woman miscarries after police assault her despite her yelling she is pregnant and wants to leave....

2 Iraq war veterans are hospitalized due to police assault in Oakland

the press says the Occupy folks make it unsafe and the Chancellor of UC Davis is AFRAID of her students....

Bush the shrub wins....be damn afraid .....

[Diavolo]

It's interesting. I'm watching Nixon right now. While Oliver Stone takes way too many liberties, the footage of real protesters and the rhetoric of the government is real. And it hasn't changed in 40 years. It reminds me of what we are hearing from Faux News right now. And the Nuevo Hippies are right now too. Or are they Neo Hippies?

[ruffryder]

There is a correct way to use pepper spray and tasers. People authorized to do so do go through training for this. They also are told when to use it and to what aggression. With UC Davis the question is were the students ready to be forceful and not comply? We do know they were asked to leave. Some law enforcement people debating this say the officers should have proceeded to arrest them first and if they did not comply then give the warning to comply or be sprayed. For some reason these officers felt threatened? .. or felt the need to just spray.. which is where the debate comes up and why they did this. My guess was because the students were asked to leave, was it justified? I say no. I guess we will find out. I definitely think this case will determine how pepper spray and force is proceeded with in the future.

[Heart]

RAISE OUR VOICES! Women's OWS Action, Nov 25th, 1PM, Foley Square, NYC

Everyday around the world women-identified persons survive different forms of violence. Physical violence leaves us with traumatic scars. Economic violence causes us to struggle to feed our families. Sexual violence in our homes and on our streets causes us to feel shame. Political violence silences the power of our voices to make decisions in society. Military violence divides nations of women who want peace.

We say no more! We want respect, equity, compassion, peace, security and healing for ourselves, our children, our communities and our world.


Wall Street is violence against women. Corporations get nearly 70% of their profit from women workers who earn $2 a day. In the U.S., women make as low as $0.52 for every dollar a man makes. Women of color are 70% of the global poor. More than 15 million of our children live in poverty in the U.S., the richest nation in the world. Women remain strong! We raise our voices to promote a fair and just economic system!

Women’s bodies & voices are under attack. Individuals disrespect our bodies with street harassment, rape, and other forms of physical & sexual violence. 1 in 6 American women has been a victim of attempted or completed rape. The courts, cops and lawyers continue to blame us for this violence. Media corporations make billions with music and films that disgrace our bodies, minds and spirits. And now, state governments in the U.S. have created restrictions on voting which shut out the voices of women of color at the polls. Women remain strong! We proclaim our right to peace, legal justice, respectful images and voting access!



We are not cheap labor, sexual objects or people to be disregarded!

We use the strength of our voices to demand respect, justice, peace, fairness, voting rights, wealth and a living wage!

***trans, gender-varient women are welcome & encouraged to attend***

(please share far & wide!)

Full Declaration: http://bit.ly/sZ985S
Facebook Invite: http://on.fb.me/sHzun8


Organized by CLAW (Clear Action by/for Women) Coalition:

AF3IRM

http://af3irm.org



A.N.S.W.E.R

http://www.answercoalition.org



Black Women's Blueprint

http://www.blackwomensblueprint.org



SisterSong NYC & Trust Black Women
http://bit.ly/mnxD7J



Feminism Now Podcast

feminism-now.com



Party for Socialism & Liberation

http://www.pslweb.org

[persiphone]

Occupy protestors have made direct contact with Obama in NH and slipped him a note....

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/occupy-protestor-hands-president-obama-note-201229558.html

[SoNotHer]

http://l1.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/OQZQ3HMLmTP0aEuICs7fdQ--/YXBwaWQ9eW5ld3M7cT04NTt3PTYzMA--/http://media.zenfs.com/en/blogs/theticket/obama-occupy-note.jpg

Occupy protestors have made direct contact with Obama in NH and slipped him a note....

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/occupy-protestor-hands-president-obama-note-201229558.html

[greeneyedgrrl]

ok... so obviously OWS is a hot topic. i posted a link on another page about the davis pepper spray incident. and my cousin who is a cop responded, along with her mom, they fully back wall street and the cops, not a surprise, but she gave me a penal code to justify the police action: PC 407

CALIFORNIA PENAL CODE

· 407 PC Unlawful assembly defined.
Whenever two or more persons assemble
together to do an unlawful act, or do a lawful
act in a violent, boisterous or tumultuous
manner, such assembly is an unlawful assembly.


the link below explains the criteria for conviction of this offense:

http://www.justia.com/criminal/docs/calcrim/2600/2686.html

after reading it... my thinking is that it still wasn't justified from what i saw because it didn't appear to be a riot, and there didn't appear to be malicious intent or intent to break the law. because my cousin is so adamantly defending the action, (i really don't know the motivation, because she refused to answer any of my questions, so i can only speculate) i'm wondering if the cops are perceiving the demonstrations as riots, illegal activity, or if it's her more conservative (and privileged) viewpoint that she's perceiving it this way, or an attempt to stick together? it sounds like other people on this thread have had similar experiences... thoughts?

[atomiczombie]

ok... so obviously OWS is a hot topic. i posted a link on another page about the davis pepper spray incident. and my cousin who is a cop responded, along with her mom, they fully back wall street and the cops, not a surprise, but she gave me a penal code to justify the police action: PC 407

CALIFORNIA PENAL CODE

· 407 PC Unlawful assembly defined.
Whenever two or more persons assemble
together to do an unlawful act, or do a lawful
act in a violent, boisterous or tumultuous
manner, such assembly is an unlawful assembly.


the link below explains the criteria for conviction of this offense:

http://www.justia.com/criminal/docs/calcrim/2600/2686.html

after reading it... my thinking is that it still wasn't justified from what i saw because it didn't appear to be a riot, and there didn't appear to be malicious intent or intent to break the law. because my cousin is so adamantly defending the action, (i really don't know the motivation, because she refused to answer any of my questions, so i can only speculate) i'm wondering if the cops are perceiving the demonstrations as riots, illegal activity, or if it's her more conservative (and privileged) viewpoint that she's perceiving it this way, or an attempt to stick together? it sounds like other people on this thread have had similar experiences... thoughts?

I think the cops clearly mistake peaceful protestors with rioters. How they make that connection in their minds is just baffling to me. Someone staging a sit in, someone standing on a side walk or in a park with a sign, someone banging a drum and chanting is not a threat to anyone. Pepper spray is one of many non-lethal weapons that are supposed to be an alternative to using lethal force (guns for instance). But instead of using pepper spray as an alternative to using lethal force, the cops use it as a way to use force in situations that don't call for any type of force - which is totally inappropriate imho.

[greeneyedgrrl]

I think the cops clearly mistake peaceful protestors with rioters. How they make that connection in their minds is just baffling to me. Someone staging a sit in, someone standing on a side walk or in a park with a sign, someone banging a drum and chanting is not a threat to anyone. Pepper spray is one of many non-lethal weapons that are supposed to be an alternative to using lethal force (guns for instance). But instead of using pepper spray as an alternative to using lethal force, the cops use it as a way to use force in situations that don't call for any type of force - which is totally inappropriate imho.

thank you az. it is so hard for me... to hear my cousin spouting such hatred for people she has never met. it just baffles me how easily we (humans) can be duped into seeing each other as the enemy.

[atomiczombie]

thank you az. it is so hard for me... to hear my cousin spouting such hatred for people she has never met. it just baffles me how easily we (humans) can be duped into seeing each other as the enemy.

You can call me Drew :D

[greeneyedgrrl]

You can call me Drew :D
thank you Drew! :D

[Diavolo]

thank you az. it is so hard for me... to hear my cousin spouting such hatred for people she has never met. it just baffles me how easily we (humans) can be duped into seeing each other as the enemy.

I am amazed by it myself. With a few exceptions here in Oakland, in particular, the OWS folks have been completely peaceful and all of the violence has been committed by the State.

Ask your cousin how many of her friends have lost their houses to the banks while they were working on a modification? My experience as an REO real estate broker is that while the bank is working on your modification they are "double tracking" the foreclosure. Meaning they are stringing you out and then "Bam!" they take your house. I didn't dream up derivatives. Did you? I didn't even dream up options, and while I understand the investment product, options are no more than legalized gambling. I said that in 2000 when I got my Series 7 license. This shit is legalized gambling. So when the OWS folks say the banks have been gambling with our money on our future, they are exactly right. Bank of America is so bloated that they could fail and it would take months for the rank and file to find out about it. Yet their executives still receive huge pay packages while the middle class shrinks away.

Don't get me wrong, I'm a capitalist for sure, but I believe in conducting business with a soul. Am I working towards the top 1%? You bet your ass. But I think you don't have to make every penny on every deal. You have to give back. A lot. Its the right thing to do. You help people who need help. And you operate with a conscience, not from a place of greed. Greed is still is one of the seven deadly sins. If every business person handled themselves in this manner this country would be out of this mess in a month.

[SoNotHer]

"Double tracking," eh? The games never end do they?

I am amazed by it myself. With a few exceptions here in Oakland, in particular, the OWS folks have been completely peaceful and all of the violence has been committed by the State.

Ask your cousin how many of her friends have lost their houses to the banks while they were working on a modification? My experience as an REO real estate broker is that while the bank is working on your modification they are "double tracking" the foreclosure. Meaning they are stringing you out and then "Bam!" they take your house. I didn't dream up derivatives. Did you? I didn't even dream up options, and while I understand the investment product, options are no more than legalized gambling. I said that in 2000 when I got my Series 7 license. This shit is legalized gambling. So when the OWS folks say the banks have been gambling with our money on our future, they are exactly right. Bank of America is so bloated that they could fail and it would take months for the rank and file to find out about it. Yet their executives still receive huge pay packages while the middle class shrinks away.

Don't get me wrong, I'm a capitalist for sure, but I believe in conducting business with a soul. Am I working towards the top 1%? You bet your ass. But I think you don't have to make every penny on every deal. You have to give back. A lot. Its the right thing to do. You help people who need help. And you operate with a conscience, not from a place of greed. Greed is still is one of the seven deadly sins. If every business person handled themselves in this manner this country would be out of this mess in a month.

[Bard]

I think the cops clearly mistake peaceful protestors with rioters. How they make that connection in their minds is just baffling to me. Someone staging a sit in, someone standing on a side walk or in a park with a sign, someone banging a drum and chanting is not a threat to anyone. Pepper spray is one of many non-lethal weapons that are supposed to be an alternative to using lethal force (guns for instance). But instead of using pepper spray as an alternative to using lethal force, the cops use it as a way to use force in situations that don't call for any type of force - which is totally inappropriate imho.

I very much respect all the posters and viewpoints that have been stated here and I am just wanting to say that yes I don't think that the way it has been done is the right way and while the cops on the street are following orders from higher up it is not a excuse to use methods that are not called for. I am recalling my training in moving a passive resistor and we were taught not to use pepper spray but there are other pressure points that we would use yes it is called pain compliance but it is not a maneuver that will injure you. As a campus police officer I have had to break up some protest because they could not be in the spot that they were as I was told to by my higher command it was a small scale and I was able to just to talk it out. but was I a little scared heck yeah yes I have a gun but the very last thing I want to to have to use it I am here to protect these students but you never know about the beer bottle that gets throws or worse I worry about Officer safety all the time.. again I am not excusing the acts at all they make me ashamed

[Ebon]

vOu2CSxMqhI

I wish they could have finished. He was listening then some idiot started chanting. Then it just got garbled up. Not that I'm a fan of Obama, but had this had been Bush, they would have been escorted out or arrested. Sorry if this is already posted. The Obama chanting was a bit unsettling for me though.

[AtLast]

I absolutely disagree with what has been going on in terms of peaceful assembly and the use of tear gas, etc. to disperse them.

I have to speqk up about the fact that not all OWS demonstrators have been non-violent. Although, the case in SF wherein a woman slashed 2 officers (one in the face) with an exacto knife (which she stole from an artist showing at a street art fair nearby) was not peaceful assembly. Now, it looks like she and the guy she was with were hanging out at the SF encampment and not really OWS people. Most of the attacks on police with bottles, etc. all over the US have been done by anarchist groups or people just there to party. They do not represent the core of OWS demonstrators at all.

This always happens and I do think the cops need to protect themselves. This is a complex set of circumstances. Many of the OWS folks have let the homeless and other groups share space simply due to feeling the pain of disenfranchised people. The non-violent OWS folks are not at fault for a few lashing out at police, but, I just can't sit back and say it has all been peaceful or that police have some things to worry about. How do they know who is safe and not going to strike-out?

In no way do I support what happened at UCD- and I think that the Admin and the campus police department is at fault for failing to train officers for these kinds of protests. Also, I do think there were rogue officers involved that would act that way no matter what.

I sure don't put the actions of a very few "outsiders" that have been violent on the movement as a whole. But, there have been incidences of people attacking officers. This is where I think "knowing" the population is really important and that the first thing that happens should be communication between the campus police chief and demonstrators that can speak to what is planned and who might not be really part of the protest.

The UCD police officers were wrong and I hope prosecuted outside of the university in criminal court. Those students were not posing any kind of physical threat. But other people have. Not many, but it has gone on.

[atomiczombie]

National Day of Action to Stop (and Reverse) Foreclosures

December 6 will be a big day of action for the Occupy Wall Street movement. #OWS will join the struggle of families and communities that have been on the front lines of a struggle for economic justice. We will stand in solidarity and ask our fellow occupations to join us for a national day of action on the foreclosure crisis. We are fighting Wall Street's reach on every block, every farm, every house in America with sit-ins at foreclosed properties to right this moral injustice.

The Occupy movement is born of the simple belief that humanity could meet our common needs if not for the predation and greed of the very few.

Nowhere is this disparity of wealth and power more evident than in the struggle to secure the human right to housing.

In a nation that puts the right to housing at the center of its founding dream, millions of people have lost their homes or fear that they soon will because of the foreclosure crisis. Wall Street created this crisis with lies and greed. And Washington, instead of investigating Wall Street and banks, is cutting back room deals to let bankers escape justice for their crimes.

Wall Street turned a fundamental human need into a badly rigged casino game with fraudulent lending practices and corrupt securitization. They destroyed our economy, kicked tens of thousands of people illegally out of their homes, and are now using a small fraction of the money they stole to buy off politicians and settle for far less than they owe.

More information to come.

Contact: occupyourhomes@gmail.com
On Twitter: @OccupyOurHomes
Facebook page: http://www.facebook.com/events/304693926222145/

LINK: http://occupywallst.org/article/december-6-occupy-wall-street-goes-home/

[SoNotHer]

I'm happy to know 12/6 :-)

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-C8EDe9hRS6A/TsLy4w8lALI/AAAAAAAAARA/xGk1fVrMmiY/s200/klhz3smj+tw1.jpg

LINK: http://occupywallst.org/article/december-6-occupy-wall-street-goes-home/

[Diavolo]

My business puts me smack in the middle of the foreclosure debacle. And I've seen it all. Seriously. All. I've been beating a drum on the subject, but it falls on deaf ears. Here's a link to a particularly bad man who still doesn't get it.

http://www.dsnews.com/articles/baum-law-firm-to-close-2011-11-22

He blames a NYT columnist for the failure of his law firm. The truth is is firm was doomed to fail because of it's depraved corporate culture. The NYT columnist was just the means to the end.

[atomiczombie]

My business puts me smack in the middle of the foreclosure debacle. And I've seen it all. Seriously. All. I've been beating a drum on the subject, but it falls on deaf ears. Here's a link to a particularly bad man who still doesn't get it.

http://www.dsnews.com/articles/baum-law-firm-to-close-2011-11-22

He blames a NYT columnist for the failure of his law firm. The truth is is firm was doomed to fail because of it's depraved corporate culture. The NYT columnist was just the means to the end.

I remember seeing those disgusting Halloween office party pictures a couple weeks ago on Countdown with Keith Olbermann. I have no sympathy for this guy.

[SoNotHer]

MYTH #1: The congressional Super Committee failed because both sides refuse to compromise.


REALITY: The Super Committee failed because Republicans’ number one, non-negotiable priority is to protect millionaires and billionaires from paying even one more penny in taxes.1 Democrats repeatedly offered deep spending cuts (far deeper than most progressives would like) in exchange for raising taxes on the wealthy and closing corporate loopholes, only to be refused again and again.2 So even though the vast majority of Americans say they want to protect Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid benefits, and raise taxes on the rich and corporations,3 that won’t happen until Republicans put aside their extremist stance.


MYTH #2: Nobody knows what Occupy Wall Street is about.


REALITY: Occupy Wall Street may not have a formal list of demands, but anyone who’s been paying attention understands the core problems that occupiers are protesting–that corporations have far too much power in our political system, that Wall Street banks crashed our economy but were never held accountable, and that the richest 400 Americans have more wealth than half of all Americans–156 million people–combined.4


MYTH #3: Occupiers should stop protesting and just get a job.


REALITY: As anybody who’s looked for a job in the last few years knows, there just aren’t jobs out there. That’s a big part of why occupiers are protesting. In September, there were four times as many unemployed people as job openings.5 And for those who are lucky enough to find a job, median wages today are lower than they were a decade ago.6


MYTH #4: Occupy Wall Street is intent on provoking violence, especially against banks and the police.


REALITY: Occupations across the country have committed themselves to nonviolent protest, in the greatest traditions of protest movements. Some of their protests have been met with acts of police violence–tear gas, pepper spray, rubber bullets7–but in many cases, protesters have reminded police that the police are part of the 99%, too.8 And in the few cases when people have shown up at occupations and committed acts of vandalism, other protesters have even repaired their acts of vandalism.9


MYTH #5: The biggest crisis facing our country is out of control government spending.


REALITY: The two biggest drivers of our deficit–by far–are the economic crash and the Bush tax cuts.10 We have millions of people out of work, corporations hoarding cash, and factories sitting idle. If we put all those people back to work–rebuilding infrastructure, educating our children, and researching new technologies–it’ll shrink the deficit and make our economy stronger for the long haul. And we can easily afford it if we make sure the rich–who are taking home a larger percentage of income than any time since 191711–pay their fair share.

[Diavolo]

Ever cook something jalapenos in it and accidentally get it in your eye? Or your nose? Scoville index on a jalapeno is max 8000. Police grade pepper spray? In excess of 2million heat units.

http://www.eatmorechiles.com/Scoville_Heat.html

I loves me some heat, but not 250 times the heat of a jalapeno sprayed in my face.

[greeneyedgrrl]

I very much respect all the posters and viewpoints that have been stated here and I am just wanting to say that yes I don't think that the way it has been done is the right way and while the cops on the street are following orders from higher up it is not a excuse to use methods that are not called for. I am recalling my training in moving a passive resistor and we were taught not to use pepper spray but there are other pressure points that we would use yes it is called pain compliance but it is not a maneuver that will injure you. As a campus police officer I have had to break up some protest because they could not be in the spot that they were as I was told to by my higher command it was a small scale and I was able to just to talk it out. but was I a little scared heck yeah yes I have a gun but the very last thing I want to to have to use it I am here to protect these students but you never know about the beer bottle that gets throws or worse I worry about Officer safety all the time.. again I am not excusing the acts at all they make me ashamed

thank you for your input. i'm wondering how long ago your training was? and if you think location of training would make a difference? my cousin is a cop in la county and all her buddies chimed in with the same kind of response: saying that the people sprayed deserved it and the cops were showing restraint.

[SoNotHer]

From - http://movetoamend.org/amendment

Amendment

Section 1 [Corporations are not people and can be regulated]

The rights protected by the Constitution of the United States are the rights of natural persons only.

Artificial entities, such as corporations, limited liability companies, and other entities, established by the laws of any State, the United States, or any foreign state shall have no rights under this Constitution and are subject to regulation by the People, through Federal, State, or local law.

The privileges of artificial entities shall be determined by the People, through Federal, State, or local law, and shall not be construed to be inherent or inalienable.

Section 2 [Money is not speech and can be regulated]

Federal, State and local government shall regulate, limit, or prohibit contributions and expenditures, including a candidate’s own contributions and expenditures, for the purpose of influencing in any way the election of any candidate for public office or any ballot measure.

Federal, State and local government shall require that any permissible contributions and expenditures be publicly disclosed.

The judiciary shall not construe the spending of money to influence elections to be speech under the First Amendment.

Section 3

Nothing contained in this amendment shall be construed to abridge the freedom of the press.

Help Us Name The Amendment!

What do you think the amendment should be called? We want to hear from you!

Here are some ideas already proposed:

Amendment to End Corporate Rule
Clean Elections Amendment
Abolish Corporate Personhood Amendment
Amendment to Remove Corporations from the Constitution
End Corporate Personhood Amendment
Making Democracy Real Amendment
The Democracy Renewal Amendment
Government of the People Amendment
The 99% Amendment
The Amendment to Liberate Democracy (or Our Republic)
We the People Amendment
The Peoples Personhood Amendment
Corporations are Not People, Money is Not Speech Amendment
The Common Sense Amendment

[mustangjeano]

MYTH #1: The congressional Super Committee failed because both sides refuse to compromise.


REALITY: The Super Committee failed because Republicans’ number one, non-negotiable priority is to protect millionaires and billionaires from paying even one more penny in taxes.1 Democrats repeatedly offered deep spending cuts (far deeper than most progressives would like) in exchange for raising taxes on the wealthy and closing corporate loopholes, only to be refused again and again.2 So even though the vast majority of Americans say they want to protect Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid benefits, and raise taxes on the rich and corporations,3 that won’t happen until Republicans put aside their extremist stance.


MYTH #2: Nobody knows what Occupy Wall Street is about.


REALITY: Occupy Wall Street may not have a formal list of demands, but anyone who’s been paying attention understands the core problems that occupiers are protesting–that corporations have far too much power in our political system, that Wall Street banks crashed our economy but were never held accountable, and that the richest 400 Americans have more wealth than half of all Americans–156 million people–combined.4


MYTH #3: Occupiers should stop protesting and just get a job.


REALITY: As anybody who’s looked for a job in the last few years knows, there just aren’t jobs out there. That’s a big part of why occupiers are protesting. In September, there were four times as many unemployed people as job openings.5 And for those who are lucky enough to find a job, median wages today are lower than they were a decade ago.6


MYTH #4: Occupy Wall Street is intent on provoking violence, especially against banks and the police.


REALITY: Occupations across the country have committed themselves to nonviolent protest, in the greatest traditions of protest movements. Some of their protests have been met with acts of police violence–tear gas, pepper spray, rubber bullets7–but in many cases, protesters have reminded police that the police are part of the 99%, too.8 And in the few cases when people have shown up at occupations and committed acts of vandalism, other protesters have even repaired their acts of vandalism.9


MYTH #5: The biggest crisis facing our country is out of control government spending.


REALITY: The two biggest drivers of our deficit–by far–are the economic crash and the Bush tax cuts.10 We have millions of people out of work, corporations hoarding cash, and factories sitting idle. If we put all those people back to work–rebuilding infrastructure, educating our children, and researching new technologies–it’ll shrink the deficit and make our economy stronger for the long haul. And we can easily afford it if we make sure the rich–who are taking home a larger percentage of income than any time since 191711–pay their fair share.
Very well put. Thank you

[AtLast]

Social movements absolutely effect change in our political system- Vietnam is a very good example of this. Yet, it took 5-7 years for this to happen. There is a lot of groundeork to this. And starting as individuals outside of protesting (keep doing that, too), we must enter the political climate via local elections on up.

I know that for our particular queer population, it isn't easy to get involved with groups outside of our comfort zone, but we have to. We have to be part of voter registration drives, volunteer to work at polling places, volunteer for candidates (and some of them will not have ALL of our stances on issues), educate our families and neighbors and just participate in the system that I know we have problems with. But, the right-wing has done this quite effectively mainly due to the assumption that they represent the majority of the electorate. They do not! The US is quite diverse.

Yes, when I have gone to some candidate meeting at someone's home, I have received the "stare" - even in a region that is touted as very open. We tend to only join political groups with people like us- and that isn't going to get to the numbers we need in the US to be heard.

This movement needs to get our messages out much sooner than in the past- and we need to join forces with people that align politically but look different than we do and take our rightful place in our democracy. I have found that most of the fears I have about joining community action groups outside of queerdom are false and that I have much more in common with people outside of my usual social groups than I realized.

This movement needs to "move" along to action that will have an impact on our political institutions much faster than in the past.

[Ciaran]

I have to speqk up about the fact that not all OWS demonstrators have been non-violent. Although, the case in SF wherein a woman slashed 2 officers (one in the face) with an exacto knife (which she stole from an artist showing at a street art fair nearby) was not peaceful assembly. Now, it looks like she and the guy she was with were hanging out at the SF encampment and not really OWS people. Most of the attacks on police with bottles, etc. all over the US have been done by anarchist groups or people just there to party. They do not represent the core of OWS demonstrators at all.


As someone who is admittedly and openly sceptical about the Occupy movement, this is one of the aspects that I struggle with. On the one hand the Occupy movement tries to portray itself as representing all, or almost all (99%) of society, uses rhetoric and, on occasions, imagery that attracts anarchists and, worse, those with no sense of social responsibility ... and, yet, distances itself from the consequences that result.

The desecration of St Paul's Cathedral here in London is the perfect case in point.

[atomiczombie]

As someone who is admittedly and openly sceptical about the Occupy movement, this is one of the aspects that I struggle with. On the one hand the Occupy movement tries to portray itself as representing all, or almost all (99%) of society, uses rhetoric and, on occasions, imagery that attracts anarchists and, worse, those with no sense of social responsibility ... and, yet, distances itself from the consequences that result.

The desecration of St Paul's Cathedral here in London is the perfect case in point.

Funny, I think Occupy is calling on the world to be more socially responsible. Social responsibility is really it's core message.

I think it is really important to understand that Occupy is about peaceful protest and non-violence. Any riff-raff elements out there who do cause trouble don't represent Occupy. I don't like it when people look at those few anarchists and trouble makers who show up at peaceful protests and cause trouble, and assume that they represent the protestors. The Occupy movement doesn't actively try to attract anarchists. Anarchists just see an opportunity to make trouble so they show up. Desecration of property is not in any way a goal of or condoned by the Occupy movement.

[SoNotHer]

I'm stealing this from Ruby Woo's post on another page. I hope you all here in the States had a good holiday today. :-)

https://encrypted-tbn2.google.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTP9shyzzlJzImcagBFgbaT8F42F9zNH JRJuuWqRQGhy6y_sOugAw

[Kätzchen]

AZ,
thank you for the nudge about my participation in this forum thread.

I've been very quiet... When I'm quiet, it can mean a number of things but most generally, my being quiet in this instance (OWS, et al) concerns knowing certain people in my region who play instrumental roles, publicly.

When I see them make particular decisions that do not square with my reality, I sit up and take notice and listen with an acuteness to detail. I try to gather as much information as I can - verbal, non-verbal, hidden elements in various fields of interest, so that I am able to gather some sort of meaning that makes sense not only to me, but helps me to understand them better as well. Sometimes I am able to understand better and other times my own trained incapacities limit my ability to see a fuller picture of what is transpiring.

I'm not happy with some of the decisions made by key officials in Portland.

I'm not able to deliberate on those feelings or things I am privy to or what kind of meaning-making I am getting from everything that transpired in our city.

What I can say this morning is more along the lines of a comment and thanks to Diavalo's recent post on organizational culture, I am able to say that Diavalo's observation on key elements in organizational culture illustrate a key principle in Organizational culture: Organizational culture (no matter if the culture we speak about resides in the OWS movement, institutional houses of power, familial, community, workplace or such) mirrors problematics in tangible or intangible ways with respect to how values, decisions or a sharing of goals culminates over time.

Whether an organization succeeds, stumbles and recovers, or fails, we can examine what elements of culture within the company and community it resides in and take note of what elements contributed to success or failure or a stalling of growth necessary to bring all elements together to produce an orchestration of success or failure.

IMO, the most successful organizations resist isomorphic elements and utilize sets of data key in determining the breadth or depth in order to orchestrate and administer successful mission priori.

Thank you for your observation and comments Diavalo.

One thought that has stayed with me since the inception of the OWS movement is that greater care to detail of organizational success might be worth a closer fine-toothed examination for clues on maintaining strength and equilibrium at optimal peak performance to withstand isomorphic tendencies that impale organizational success. A field marshalling of logistical detail.

That's all I've got today and I wish each of you a beautiful holiday weekend,

~D

[Ciaran]

Desecration of property is not in any way a goal of or condoned by the Occupy movement.

Who actually speaks for the Occupy movement? Who decides or articulates what its goals actually are? I'm struggling to identify who or what does this.

Desecration of property is certainly what has happened at St Paul's Cathedral in London. Rightly or wrongly, the "Occupy" movement has been perceived by many here in the UK as either participating in or supporting that desecration or, alternatively, standing back passively and enabling it to happen.

As a result, sympathy for the "Occupy" movement has fallen, certainly here in London, in recent weeks as this protest continues directly outside a place of worship.

[Ebon]

Who actually speaks for the Occupy movement? Who decides or articulates what its goals actually are? I'm struggling to identify who or what does this.

Desecration of property is certainly what has happened at St Paul's Cathedral in London. Rightly or wrongly, the "Occupy" movement has been perceived by many here in the UK as either participating in or supporting that desecration or, alternatively, standing back passively and enabling it to happen.

As a result, sympathy for the "Occupy" movement has fallen, certainly here in London, in recent weeks as this protest continues directly outside a place of worship.

They decide by general assembly. The people speaks for OWS and the people make the decisions.

http://occupywallst.org/

"Occupy Wall Street is leaderless resistance movement with people of many colors, genders and political persuasions. The one thing we all have in common is that We Are The 99% that will no longer tolerate the greed and corruption of the 1%. We are using the revolutionary Arab Spring tactic to achieve our ends and encourage the use of nonviolence to maximize the safety of all participants.

This #ows movement empowers real people to create real change from the bottom up. We want to see a general assembly in every backyard, on every street corner because we don't need Wall Street and we don't need politicians to build a better society."

[Gráinne]

Still not trying to stir up shit, but what happens if the members of the general assembly disagree? Majority vote? I don't see how that will go on forever before the dissenters will form their own splinter group, because they are not heard. Did that make any sense?

[SoNotHer]

I'm wondering how many times we need to delay any kind of social and human progress by continuing to swirl with these kinds of comments which have been abundantly perpetuated, vetted and responded to clearly, succinctly, tactfully and with hope in many other ways besides violence and how long some need to continue to focus on the small exception to the otherwise preponderance of nonviolent, focused and progressive action and thinking that has been taken place.


Who actually speaks for the Occupy movement? Who decides or articulates what its goals actually are? I'm struggling to identify who or what does this.

Desecration of property is certainly what has happened at St Paul's Cathedral in London. Rightly or wrongly, the "Occupy" movement has been perceived by many here in the UK as either participating in or supporting that desecration or, alternatively, standing back passively and enabling it to happen.

As a result, sympathy for the "Occupy" movement has fallen, certainly here in London, in recent weeks as this protest continues directly outside a place of worship.

[Ebon]

Still not trying to stir up shit, but what happens if the members of the general assembly disagree? Majority vote? I don't see how that will go on forever before the dissenters will form their own splinter group, because they are not heard. Did that make any sense?

They have had that issue. Majority vote wins. When John Lewis wanted to speak at OWS in Atlanta majority vote said no, but for the people that wanted to hear him they agreed on him speaking at the end of the general assembly. He didn't want to wait so he left. They came to a compromise.

[Ciaran]

I'm wondering how many times we need to delay any kind of social and human progress by continuing to swirl with these kinds of comments which have been abundantly perpetuated, vetted and responded to clearly, succinctly, tactfully and with hope in many other ways besides violence and how long some need to continue to focus on the small exception to the otherwise preponderance of nonviolent, focused and progressive action and thinking that has been taken place.


All well & good but I walk past St Paul's Cathedral every morning and evening.

That's my closest "real" experience of the "Occupy" movement and, especially very early in the morning when I walk by, I see a lot of rubbish and streams of human waste. The gathering has prevented some acts of worship from taking place and, more generally, tourists are now avoiding the historic site. I cannot blame them - I would too.

So for me it ain't about these kinds of comments which have been abundantly perpetuated, vetted and responded to clearly, succinctly, tactfully , rather it's about what I see and experience 5 days of the week and it ain't positive. In fact, the opposite when London's already stretched police resources have to deal with the crowd control and petty crime that this has attracted.

Apologies if my personal experience isn't to everyone's liking or if it's viewed as biased (which it undoubtedly is but you got the diplomatic version) but that's how I call it.

[atomiczombie]

The violent police assaults across the US are no coincidence. Occupy has touched the third rail of our political class's venality


Naomi Wolf
guardian.co.uk, Friday 25 November 2011 12.25 EST
Article history

US citizens of all political persuasions are still reeling from images of unparallelled police brutality in a coordinated crackdown against peaceful OWS protesters in cities across the nation this past week. An elderly woman was pepper-sprayed in the face; the scene of unresisting, supine students at UC Davis being pepper-sprayed by phalanxes of riot police went viral online; images proliferated of young women – targeted seemingly for their gender – screaming, dragged by the hair by police in riot gear; and the pictures of a young man, stunned and bleeding profusely from the head, emerged in the record of the middle-of-the-night clearing of Zuccotti Park.

But just when Americans thought we had the picture – was this crazy police and mayoral overkill, on a municipal level, in many different cities? – the picture darkened. The National Union of Journalists and the Committee to Protect Journalists issued a Freedom of Information Act request to investigate possible federal involvement with law enforcement practices that appeared to target journalists. The New York Times reported that "New York cops have arrested, punched, whacked, shoved to the ground and tossed a barrier at reporters and photographers" covering protests. Reporters were asked by NYPD to raise their hands to prove they had credentials: when many dutifully did so, they were taken, upon threat of arrest, away from the story they were covering, and penned far from the site in which the news was unfolding. Other reporters wearing press passes were arrested and roughed up by cops, after being – falsely – informed by police that "It is illegal to take pictures on the sidewalk."

In New York, a state supreme court justice and a New York City council member were beaten up; in Berkeley, California, one of our greatest national poets, Robert Hass, was beaten with batons. The picture darkened still further when Wonkette and Washingtonsblog.com reported that the Mayor of Oakland acknowledged that the Department of Homeland Security had participated in an 18-city mayor conference call advising mayors on "how to suppress" Occupy protests.

To Europeans, the enormity of this breach may not be obvious at first. Our system of government prohibits the creation of a federalised police force, and forbids federal or militarised involvement in municipal peacekeeping.

I noticed that rightwing pundits and politicians on the TV shows on which I was appearing were all on-message against OWS. Journalist Chris Hayes reported on a leaked memo that revealed lobbyists vying for an $850,000 contract to smear Occupy. Message coordination of this kind is impossible without a full-court press at the top. This was clearly not simply a case of a freaked-out mayors', city-by-city municipal overreaction against mess in the parks and cranky campers. As the puzzle pieces fit together, they began to show coordination against OWS at the highest national levels.

Why this massive mobilisation against these not-yet-fully-articulated, unarmed, inchoate people? After all, protesters against the war in Iraq, Tea Party rallies and others have all proceeded without this coordinated crackdown. Is it really the camping? As I write, two hundred young people, with sleeping bags, suitcases and even folding chairs, are still camping out all night and day outside of NBC on public sidewalks – under the benevolent eye of an NYPD cop – awaiting Saturday Night Live tickets, so surely the camping is not the issue. I was still deeply puzzled as to why OWS, this hapless, hopeful band, would call out a violent federal response.

That is, until I found out what it was that OWS actually wanted.

The mainstream media was declaring continually "OWS has no message". Frustrated, I simply asked them. I began soliciting online "What is it you want?" answers from Occupy. In the first 15 minutes, I received 100 answers. These were truly eye-opening.

The No 1 agenda item: get the money out of politics. Most often cited was legislation to blunt the effect of the Citizens United ruling, which lets boundless sums enter the campaign process. No 2: reform the banking system to prevent fraud and manipulation, with the most frequent item being to restore the Glass-Steagall Act – the Depression-era law, done away with by President Clinton, that separates investment banks from commercial banks. This law would correct the conditions for the recent crisis, as investment banks could not take risks for profit that create kale derivatives out of thin air, and wipe out the commercial and savings banks.

No 3 was the most clarifying: draft laws against the little-known loophole that currently allows members of Congress to pass legislation affecting Delaware-based corporations in which they themselves are investors.

When I saw this list – and especially the last agenda item – the scales fell from my eyes. Of course, these unarmed people would be having the shit kicked out of them.

For the terrible insight to take away from news that the Department of Homeland Security coordinated a violent crackdown is that the DHS does not freelance. The DHS cannot say, on its own initiative, "we are going after these scruffy hippies". Rather, DHS is answerable up a chain of command: first, to New York Representative Peter King, head of the House homeland security subcommittee, who naturally is influenced by his fellow congressmen and women's wishes and interests. And the DHS answers directly, above King, to the president (who was conveniently in Australia at the time).

In other words, for the DHS to be on a call with mayors, the logic of its chain of command and accountability implies that congressional overseers, with the blessing of the White House, told the DHS to authorise mayors to order their police forces – pumped up with millions of dollars of hardware and training from the DHS – to make war on peaceful citizens.

But wait: why on earth would Congress advise violent militarised reactions against its own peaceful constituents? The answer is straightforward: in recent years, members of Congress have started entering the system as members of the middle class (or upper middle class) – but they are leaving DC privy to vast personal wealth, as we see from the "scandal" of presidential contender Newt Gingrich's having been paid $1.8m for a few hours' "consulting" to special interests. The inflated fees to lawmakers who turn lobbyists are common knowledge, but the notion that congressmen and women are legislating their own companies' profitsis less widely known – and if the books were to be opened, they would surely reveal corruption on a Wall Street spectrum. Indeed, we do already know that congresspeople are massively profiting from trading on non-public information they have on companies about which they are legislating – a form of insider trading that sent Martha Stewart to jail.

Since Occupy is heavily surveilled and infiltrated, it is likely that the DHS and police informers are aware, before Occupy itself is, what its emerging agenda is going to look like. If legislating away lobbyists' privileges to earn boundless fees once they are close to the legislative process, reforming the banks so they can't suck money out of fake derivatives products, and, most critically, opening the books on a system that allowed members of Congress to profit personally – and immensely – from their own legislation, are two beats away from the grasp of an electorally organised Occupy movement … well, you will call out the troops on stopping that advance.

So, when you connect the dots, properly understood, what happened this week is the first battle in a civil war; a civil war in which, for now, only one side is choosing violence. It is a battle in which members of Congress, with the collusion of the American president, sent violent, organised suppression against the people they are supposed to represent. Occupy has touched the third rail: personal congressional profits streams. Even though they are, as yet, unaware of what the implications of their movement are, those threatened by the stirrings of their dreams of reform are not.

Sadly, Americans this week have come one step closer to being true brothers and sisters of the protesters in Tahrir Square. Like them, our own national leaders, who likely see their own personal wealth under threat from transparency and reform, are now making war upon us.

Right on Naomi Wolf.

LINK: http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/cifamerica/2011/nov/25/shocking-truth-about-crackdown-occupy?fb=optOut

[SoNotHer]

I'm sorry to hear that's been your experience. It hasn't been mine.

I think most people want redress for the loss of their homes, businesses, savings, jobs and lives in the most peaceful, civil and satisfactory manner possible.

All well & good but I walk past St Paul's Cathedral every morning and evening.

That's my closest "real" experience of the "Occupy" movement and, especially very early in the morning when I walk by, I see a lot of rubbish and streams of human waste. The gathering has prevented some acts of worship from taking place and, more generally, tourists are now avoiding the historic site. I cannot blame them - I would too.

So for me it ain't about these kinds of comments which have been abundantly perpetuated, vetted and responded to clearly, succinctly, tactfully , rather it's about what I see and experience 5 days of the week and it ain't positive. In fact, the opposite when London's already stretched police resources have to deal with the crowd control and petty crime that this has attracted.

Apologies if my personal experience isn't to everyone's liking or if it's viewed as biased (which it undoubtedly is but you got the diplomatic version) but that's how I call it.

[Ciaran]

I think most people want redress for the loss of their homes, businesses, savings, jobs and lives in the most peaceful, civil and satisfactory manner possible.

I know plenty of people who lost their jobs as a result of the "crisis". They worked in banking (as do I - and I won't apologise for that) so it wasn't just a loss of a job but, also, any equity they had built up in the company (profit shares, annual bonuses, monthly saving schemes etc) over periods of time up to 30 years. Some lost it all.

Although they're very frustrated by the crisis, by aspects of regulation of the financial sector and general incompetence, none of these folk are members of the Occupy movement.

If it's about redress for loss during the crisis, that's understandable (I lost much more during the crisis than most) but if they want to do it in a civil manner then, certainly, in the city I live they are going about it the wrong way. Furthermore, it has distanced them from the middle ground which has been angered by how they've turned the grounds outside St Pauls' into something resembling an itinerant camp. 99%? I'd be surprised if they have the support of 9% of the people here in London.

[SoNotHer]

The UK has a very different set of financial regulations and a different system of taxation as does Canada. The US is more deregulated and has a different tax structure. And the losses here have not been insignificant.

We can swirl in semantics about percentages and degrees, but the point of the movement is simple enough, and frankly it's a point well taken. We can and should do better.

I would also submit to you that earth's human population is seven billion and counting, and so socio-economic injustice and societies no longer set up to even present the simulacrum of opportunity and stratification and instead represent increasingly polarized factions of the "haves" and "have nots" are primed for something other than "business as usual." I wouldn't take something away from people that they believe they deserve or have come to respect and expect no reaction. We're clearly seeing cause and effect in motion.


I know plenty of people who lost their jobs as a result of the "crisis". They worked in banking (as do I - and I won't apologise for that) so it wasn't just a loss of a job but, also, any equity they had built up in the company (profit shares, annual bonuses, monthly saving schemes etc) over periods of time up to 30 years. Some lost it all.

Although they're very frustrated by the crisis, by aspects of regulation of the financial sector and general incompetence, none of these folk are members of the Occupy movement.

If it's about redress for loss during the crisis, that's understandable (I lost much more during the crisis than most) but if they want to do it in a civil manner then, certainly, in the city I live they are going about it the wrong way. Furthermore, it has distanced them from the middle ground which has been angered by how they've turned the grounds outside St Pauls' into something resembling an itinerant camp. 99%? I'd be surprised if they have the support of 9% of the people here in London.

[Cin]

Don’t look to billion dollar corporations who pay ZERO taxes for help.

Don’t look to the businesses who actually get paid by our government to move our jobs elsewhere.

Don’t look to the rich who pay less taxes than the rest of us. They pay 17% (if they pay anything at all. And many don’t, thanks to awesome loopholes); we pay 35%.

Certainly don’t look to the financial sector, the cause of this mess in the first place.

Where should we get money to stimulate the economy and balance the federal budget?

Why out of the mouths of the poor and the hungry of course.

*I am wondering how giving people less to eat will supply enough money to stimulate the economy? It must make sense if Congress wants to do it. They are noted for their sense making skills after all. What do the poor need to eat for anyway? Think of how much money we could save if they would all just starve already. I mean considering how warm it is because of global climate change clearly they won’t be freezing to death anytime soon. What choice do we have?

The poor have long been whiny, annoying, buzz kills. Always wanting food, clothing, warmth, housing, medical care, they even wish for dental care, and I’m so sick of hearing how they want jobs. Anarchists. If they would just spend more time working and less time complaining we wouldn’t have to starve them to death. Clearly tolerating their sorry asses hasn’t worked. Feeding them certainly doesn’t make any sense anymore. And if they are weak enough maybe they won’t keep trying to get to the voting booths.

It’s about time we actively seek their timely demise. We can't afford poor people. And clearly they aren’t taking the hint. They insist on existing. They can’t even starve gracefully.



US Congress Seeks to Cut Food Stamp Program
Problems for poor to intensify if food-stamps program that assists 45 million people gets reduced.

Advocates for the poor and often hungry in the US say that problems for the nation's needy could intensify if the agriculture department bows to pressure from congress to reduce food-assistance schemes.

Politicians are looking at ways to stimulate the economy and balance the federal budget with a proposed $4.2bn cut in its food-stamps program that currently assists 45 million people.

According to a recent US government report, some 15 per cent of Americans are relying on food stamps. That is a 50 per cent jump from last year at a cost of $65bn per year.

H347se7RIrU&feature=player_embedded

[Sachita]

Don’t look to billion dollar corporations who pay ZERO taxes for help.

Don’t look to the businesses who actually get paid by our government to move our jobs elsewhere.

Don’t look to the rich who pay less taxes than the rest of us. They pay 17% (if they pay anything at all. And many don’t, thanks to awesome loopholes); we pay 35%.

Certainly don’t look to the financial sector, the cause of this mess in the first place.

Where should we get money to stimulate the economy and balance the federal budget?

Why out of the mouths of the poor and the hungry of course.

*I am wondering how giving people less to eat will supply enough money to stimulate the economy? It must make sense if Congress wants to do it. They are noted for their sense making skills after all. What do the poor need to eat for anyway? Think of how much money we could save if they would all just starve already. I mean considering how warm it is because of global climate change clearly they won’t be freezing to death anytime soon. What choice do we have?

The poor have long been whiny, annoying, buzz kills. Always wanting food, clothing, warmth, housing, medical care, they even wish for dental care, and I’m so sick of hearing how they want jobs. Anarchists. If they would just spend more time working and less time complaining we wouldn’t have to starve them to death. Clearly tolerating their sorry asses hasn’t worked. Feeding them certainly doesn’t make any sense anymore. And if they are weak enough maybe they won’t keep trying to get to the voting booths.

It’s about time we actively seek their timely demise. We can't afford poor people. And clearly they aren’t taking the hint. They insist on existing. They can’t even starve gracefully.



US Congress Seeks to Cut Food Stamp Program
Problems for poor to intensify if food-stamps program that assists 45 million people gets reduced.

Advocates for the poor and often hungry in the US say that problems for the nation's needy could intensify if the agriculture department bows to pressure from congress to reduce food-assistance schemes.

Politicians are looking at ways to stimulate the economy and balance the federal budget with a proposed $4.2bn cut in its food-stamps program that currently assists 45 million people.

According to a recent US government report, some 15 per cent of Americans are relying on food stamps. That is a 50 per cent jump from last year at a cost of $65bn per year.

H347se7RIrU&feature=player_embedded


Our government never ceases to amaze me. They have literally screwed out food system and now they will starve people.

[Glenn]

they've turned the grounds outside St Pauls' into something resembling an itinerant camp. 99%? I'd be surprised if they have the support of 9% of the people here in London.

Big ****ing deal! This is the way the frustrated and disadvantagd lobby, in the streets. It has been played out many times in history and will, whether you like it or not. This is a shaming and elitist attitude to have. I'm sorry the "litter" in front of St. Paul's does'nt fit into your neat little idealogical box, but the very social fabric of our civilization is being torn apart due to the waste, corruption, extortion, unaccountability, and unfettered greed behind closed doors by those at the very top and their stubborness in refusing to address these issues, preferring personal gain at the expense of long-term social stability. Clean up this corruption at the top and put these people in jail instead of the OWS campers. "Litter" in the streets is small potatoes compared to corporate and purchasable.gov. and their wasteful spending.

[persiphone]

Still not trying to stir up shit, but what happens if the members of the general assembly disagree? Majority vote? I don't see how that will go on forever before the dissenters will form their own splinter group, because they are not heard. Did that make any sense?


to get a full understanding of how the decision making is done, you might try attending your local Occupy general assembly. they are open to anyone that wants to participate and should you decide to show up and participate in the voting on of anything your vote will be counted. you'll even get an opportunity to be heard just by using a few hand signals. refreshing, actually, how effective...if not a little long.....this process actually is. everyone gets to be heard and all points voiced are discussed and voted on. it's quite fascinating.

[Gráinne]

Big ****ing deal! This is the way the frustrated and disadvantagd lobby, in the streets. It has been played out many times in history and will, whether you like it or not. This is a shaming and elitist attitude to have. I'm sorry the "litter" in front of St. Paul's does'nt fit into your neat little idealogical box, but the very social fabric of our civilization is being torn apart due to the waste, corruption, extortion, unaccountability, and unfettered greed behind closed doors by those at the very top and their stubborness in refusing to address these issues, preferring personal gain at the expense of long-term social stability. Clean up this corruption at the top and put these people in jail instead of the OWS campers. "Litter" in the streets is small potatoes compared to corporate and purchasable.gov. and their wasteful spending.

I believe your right to protest ends where my nose begins, literally. If you want to march, fine. But mess with cultural monuments or even public parks spoiled for the rest of us, and drive off business around the parks, and sorry, you lose my sympathy.

[RavynTuqiri]

In the past 6 years I have had a house foreclosed upon and was laid off. I've seen my daughter, 20, struggle to find a job at minimum wage places that just aren't hiring.

In this experience, I discovered that:

* There is government assistance programs for people losing their homes, but they are geared towards helping the banks, not the people. Banks often will not work towards short sales or loan modifications because, depending on how much you owe vs. how much your house is now valued at, they stand to make more money from the government to let it go into foreclosure.

* I had a FHA Housing counselor tell me that I didn't qualify for assistance because I wasn't behind enough in my payments. Come back in 6 months. And don't pay your mortgage during that time frame. Really? You're telling me not to pay what I can and get further behind in the hopes I qualify then?

* I had an attorney tell me to just walk away, I would be more likely to qualify for bankruptcy. In principle I had issues with this as the only thing I really owed to anyone was the house and while I could make payments, I needed the loan modified to fit my budget. He told me probably wasn't going to happen and that this would be the best solution for me. I had a moral issue on defaulting on a commitment I had made, I just needed the terms of that commitment modified.

* When I was laid off, I had to pay for health insurance through Cobra. The cost was equivalent to half my unemployment checks. I soon was without health insurance.

Long story short....the Government system doesn't work unless you are already rich and really don't need the system to begin with.

The company for which I work now, recently gave the CEO a whopping 37% increase even though the company has not seen "profitable" days since 2000. We've had a rash of lay offs with more projected in the future. How did they derive on the new pay for our CEO? On performance? No. They bench marked other CEO's in other companies to see what their CEO's were making to set our CEO's wage. A common practice. The rich get richer when you're at the top. The rest of us? Lose our jobs in "reductions" due to the poor economy, of which the rich helped create.

[Cin]

I believe your right to protest ends where my nose begins, literally. If you want to march, fine. But mess with cultural monuments or even public parks spoiled for the rest of us, and drive off business around the parks, and sorry, you lose my sympathy.

The thing with sympathy is you can't eat it, wear it, burn it to keep warm, or use it to buy medicine. You can't pay your mortgage with it either. So I don't think it's really of any use. And thank god for that. Look around the world, it's a pretty unsympathetic place. The only thing harder to find than sympathy or compassion is a job.

If we had to wait for sympathy to save ourselves, well... let's just say I'm glad we don't.

Sympathy not needed.

We all could use some equity of treatment though. And since nobody who is advantaged or even thinks they are heading in that direction is going to be in favor of, or have any sympathy for, a more equitable and fair society then the majority of people who are not advantaged are just going to have to ignore the whining of the rich and would be rich and make it happen in spite of them. But first they have to see what's wrong, understand the lies, believe in themselves and in their country. And that's the job of OWS to be a visible reminder of what is very wrong. And to help us see more clearly, to help us understand what happened and how it all went so very wrong. If we don't open our eyes those that can will continue to steal our dreams from us. We have to take back the government from the control of the few. We need to ensure that the promise of a government that is of the people, by the people and for the people does not perish from the earth.

[persiphone]

I believe your right to protest ends where my nose begins, literally. If you want to march, fine. But mess with cultural monuments or even public parks spoiled for the rest of us, and drive off business around the parks, and sorry, you lose my sympathy.



it's so wierd that you say that cuz that's exactly how i feel about elevating someone else's lifestyle at the expense of my own and then for it to be against the law for me to have something to say about that. :) funny how that works. i'm soooo glad i don't need a stranger's sympathy to be capable of moral enlightenment.

imagine a world of gardeners/farmers that abhorred the dirt. what would we eat?

[Toughy]

As I was watching the news this morning, a story about Occupy SF was aired. They went to Union Square yesterday during the Black Friday madness to protest. Thousands of shop til you drop buying from big department stores were there to see the Xmas tree light up. One of the Occupy leaders (yes there are leaders whether or not anyone wants to admit that) was interviewed and he said we should not shop AT ALL. We should make gifts, not buy them.

This struck me as completely wrong-headed. I have no gripes with a slow down of shopping corporate stores. However we should be shopping exclusively at small local businesses. Small business is the backbone of creating and maintaining communities and the real economy.

It is 'small business saturday' and we should all shop small local business every day not just today.

[persiphone]

i'm too lazy to compile all the articles, but there were several instances of violence in several Wal-Marts across the country...some amongst shoppers themselves, and some against the shoppers by hired security involving...you guessed it...pepper spray.

on a side note....i find the moving up of Black Friday by retail stores to be tacky. i think that both the moving of these sales to be earlier (encroaching on family holidays) and the violence that happened all over the country to get to these deals is indicative of a really glaringly obvious turn of priorites we have actively been engaged in this country, even if we aren't aware of it.

as a mom, i'm tired of holidays that mean nothing more than buying candy and presents. let's look at them:

halloween~bags of candy, candy, candy
christmas~candy and presents
valentines~candy and presents
easter~baskets of candy and possibly small presents

it gets old. i'm not saying that there aren't traditions and such. i'm saying that i'm tired of the barrage of pressure to buy candy and presents to feel warm fuzzies around these holidays.

[AtLast]

As I was watching the news this morning, a story about Occupy SF was aired. They went to Union Square yesterday during the Black Friday madness to protest. Thousands of shop til you drop buying from big department stores were there to see the Xmas tree light up. One of the Occupy leaders (yes there are leaders whether or not anyone wants to admit that) was interviewed and he said we should not shop AT ALL. We should make gifts, not buy them.

This struck me as completely wrong-headed. I have no gripes with a slow down of shopping corporate stores. However we should be shopping exclusively at small local businesses. Small business is the backbone of creating and maintaining communities and the real economy.

It is 'small business saturday' and we should all shop small local business every day not just today.

I agree Toughy- I know it is hard for many to pass up saving some on items on their list, but our local merchants need our business! Also, they participate in many revitalization efforts of communities that help make them safer and do bring direct tax revenues back to schools and other public services like fire stations and hospitals. And they do not have mega-million dollar lobbyists on Capitol Hill on their behalf.

Most big-box enterprises are entrenched in Wall Street and take money out of the US.

In the last 3 years, I have seen 8 small businesses close in El Cerrito and those are just the ones that I shopped in. The owners are and were (2 lost their homes and have moved) my neighbors, living within less than two miles from me.

I bet there are several people you know that were part of the fantastic revitalization efforts in Oakland that are just trying to hang on. Think of how many of them that gave part-time jobs to teens and supported community activities.

Today is Small Business Shopping Day!! I only have to buy one gift (we do a drawing in my family and have a cut off price)- and I am buying it at a local merchant. Yes, I priced it via online and would save about $7 if I bought it at best Buy (I drew a teen family member this year) and I do need to stick to a budget, but I am buying it at the Guitar Store here. It's the least I can do for my town.

Activism is well.... taking ACTION...

[Sachita]

I spent an entire day trying to find local businesses to shop at. It was very hard to find where I live. The saddest thing to me is that i live in a region where there are tons of farms and if you go to ANY food store here you won't find any local produce.

Rallys are great but change has to be a grassroots effort in each and every community.

[SoNotHer]

So many compelling reasons to shop locally...

http://greenupgrader.com/files/2009/07/shoplocal.jpg

[MsMerrick]

I spent an entire day trying to find local businesses to shop at. It was very hard to find where I live. The saddest thing to me is that i live in a region where there are tons of farms and if you go to ANY food store here you won't find any local produce.

Rallys are great but change has to be a grassroots effort in each and every community.

Consider Etsy, consider a thread here, that highlights Etsy sellers, from BFP. Under Queerbay. Consider websites that only sell American made goods, sourced and made, not just assembled here,. Local in this context, starts with being actually made in the US of A. Produce, consider a local CSA, I am betting there is one somewhere near you ...
Sometimes you do have to look a little harder, but just doing a bit ,is a start : )

[Cin]

(yes there are leaders whether or not anyone wants to admit that)

Whether the Occupy Movement is still a leaderless movement at present or not, it can't remain that way. Not if it becomes a movement with the size and substance to influence significant change. But no matter the who and the how of the eventual leaders, it was the people, the ordinary people who came together and pitched some tents to serve as a visual aide for the rest of us. It was the people who engaged in non violent protests, mic checks and democratic general assemblies who made this movement. The people without leaders and without just one clear message who came together to say enough is enough, to say give the government back to the people, and get Wall Street out of Washington. They are the heart and soul of the movement. They are the reason for any success. Not those future leaders.


Here is an interesting article about leaders.
What Are Leaders Really For?
By Duncan Watts

The Occupy Wall Street movement has both perplexed and frustrated observers and analysts by its persistent refusal to nominate an identifiable leadership who can in turn articulate a coherent agenda. What is the point, these critics wonder, of a movement that can't figure out where it's trying to go, and how can it get there without anyone to lead it?

It's a reasonable question, but it says at least as much about what we want from our social movements as it does about the way movements actually succeed.

Typically, the way we think of social change is some variant of the "great man" theory of history: that remarkable events are driven by correspondingly remarkable individuals whose vision and leadership inspire and coordinate the actions of the many. Sometimes these individuals occupy traditional roles of leadership, like presidents, CEOs, or generals, while at other times they emerge from the rank and file; but regardless of where they come from, their presence is necessary for real social change to begin. As Margaret Meade is supposed to have said: "Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has."

It's an inspiring idea, but over 100 years ago in his early classic of social psychology, "The Crowd," the French social critic Gustave LeBon, argued that the role of the leader was more subtle and indirect. According to LeBon, it was the crowd, not the princes and generals, that had become the driving force of social change. Leaders still mattered, but it wasn't because they themselves put their shoulders to the wheel of history; rather it was because they were quick to recognize the forces at work and adept at placing themselves in the forefront.

Even before LeBon, no less an observer of history than Tolstoy presented an even more jaundiced view of the great man theory. In a celebrated essay on Tolstoy's War and Peace, the philosopher Isaiah Berlin summed up Tolstoy's central insight this way: "the higher the soldiers or statesmen are in the pyramid of authority, the farther they must be from its base, which consists of those ordinary men and women whose lives are the actual stuff of history; and, consequently, the smaller the effect of the words and acts of such remote personages, despite all their theoretical authority, upon that history." According to Tolstoy, in other words, the accounts of historians are borderline fabrications, glossing over the vast majority of what actually happens in favor of a convenient storyline focused on the skill and leadership of the great generals.

Thinkers like Le Bon and Tolstoy and Berlin therefore lead us to a radically alternative hypothesis of social change: that successful movements succeed for reasons other than the presence of a great leader, who is as much a consequence of the movement's success as its cause. Explanations of historically important events that focus on the actions of a special few therefore misunderstand their true causes, which are invariably complex and often depend on the actions of a great many individuals whose names are lost to history.

Interestingly, in the natural world we don't find this sort of explanation controversial. When we hear that a raging forest fire has consumed millions of acres of California forest, we don't assume that there was anything special about the initial spark. Quite to the contrary, we understand that in context of the large-scale environmental conditions — prolonged drought, a buildup of flammable undergrowth, strong winds, rugged terrain, and on so — that truly drive fires, the nature of the spark itself is close to irrelevant.

Yet when it comes to the social equivalent of the forest fire, we do in effect insist that there must have been something special about the spark that started it. Because our experience tells us that leadership matters in small groups such as Army platoons or start-up companies, we assume that it matters in the same way for the very largest groups as well. Thus when we witness some successful movement or organization, it seems obvious to us that whoever the leader is, his or her particular combination of personality, vision, and leadership style must have supplied the critical X factor, where the larger and more successful the movement, the more important the leader will appear.

By refusing to name a leader, Occupy Wall Street presents a challenge to this view. With no one figure to credit or blame, with no face to put on a sprawling inchoate movement, and with no hierarchy of power, we simply don't know how to process what "it" is, and therefore how to think about it. And because this absence of a familiar personality-centric narrative makes us uncomfortable, we are tempted to reject the whole thing as somehow not real. Or instead, we insist that in order to be taken seriously, the movement must first change to reflect what we expect from serious organizations — namely a charismatic leader to whom we can attribute everything.

In the case of Occupy Wall Street, we will probably get our wish, for two reasons. First, if OWS grows large enough to deliver any lasting social change, some hierarchy will become necessary in order to coordinate its increasingly diverse activities; and a hierarchy by nature requires a leader. And second, precisely because the outside world wants a leader — to negotiate with, to hold responsible, and ultimately to lionize — the temptation to be that person will eventually prove irresistible.

Leaders, in other words, are necessary, but not because they are the source of social change. Rather their real function is to occupy the role that allows the rest of us to make sense of what is happening — just as Tolstoy suspected. For better and worse, telling stories is how we make sense of the world, and it's hard to tell a story without focal actors around which to center the action. But as we witness a succession of popular movements, from the Arab Spring to Occupy Wall Street, we can at least pause to appreciate the real story, which is the remarkable phenomenon of a great many ordinary individuals coming together to change the world.

[MsDemeanor]

This was on Crooks and Liars, a decidedly lefty liberal site.


Updated: The Shocking Truth About Naomi Wolf's Factless Assertions (http://crooksandliars.com/karoli/shocking-truth-about-factless-assertions)

In an article for The Guardian (http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/cifamerica/2011/nov/25/shocking-truth-about-crackdown-occupy), Naomi Wolf wrote this: In other words, for the DHS to be on a call with mayors, the logic of its chain of command and accountability implies that congressional overseers, with the blessing of the White House, told the DHS to authorise mayors to order their police forces – pumped up with millions of dollars of hardware and training from the DHS – to make war on peaceful citizens.
This follows the ongoing meme that DHS has coordinated the Occupy crackdowns on a national level; that they are orchestrating the violence behind the clearing of Zuccotti Park and others. Wolf carries this to her conclusion:
So, when you connect the dots, properly understood, what happened this week is the first battle in a civil war; a civil war in which, for now, only one side is choosing violence. It is a battle in which members of Congress, with the collusion of the American president, sent violent, organised suppression against the people they are supposed to represent. Occupy has touched the third rail: personal congressional profits streams. Even though they are, as yet, unaware of what the implications of their movement are, those threatened by the stirrings of their dreams of reform are not.
It's a factless, incendiary assertion dripping in hyperbole, grounded in speculation that's been going on for a couple of weeks now. It began with a tweet. A tweet from Michael Moore speculating that the coordination seemed like something being coordinated by DHS and sanctioned, nay, possibly even requested, by the Obama administration.
Here are the two links Wolf provides as evidence: One to Wonkette (http://wonkette.com/456282/surprise-homeland-security-coordinates-ows-crackdowns-nationwide); the other toWashingtonsblog.com (http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2011/11/homeland-security-coordinated-18-city-police-crackdown-on-occupy-protest.html). Both articles point back to this absurd article on the Examiner.com site (http://www.examiner.com/top-news-in-minneapolis/were-occupy-crackdowns-aided-by-federal-law-enforcement-agencies#ixzz1dsiSbfyh) (a very, very right-wing Phil Anschutz, write-out-of-your-butt-with-no-evidence kind of site). Washingtons Blog goes one step further, updating with this:
(And for those who are understandably doubtful about Examiner.com as a news source,here’s an AP story (http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2011/nov/15/us-occupy-cooperation/) from a couple hours ago that verifies everything except the specific mention of DHS coordination.)
Got that? The headlines on both of these stories (Wonkette and Washingtons Blog) were splayed across the sites in very large heading fonts: “Homeland Security Coordinated….” and yet the AP confirms everything BUT DHS coordination. Still, that didn’t stop Wolf from ignoring the AP story entirely and writing a piece for the Guardian that included links to bolster her argument that are as factless as her hyperbole, and stem from right-wing sites with anonymous sources.
No one has a source, no one has any evidence, and the originating story which Michael Moore and now Naomi Wolf breathlessly spread quotes an anonymous source with the promise of still more to come in the future, from a "reporter" for Examiner.com who no one seems to know (http://pleasecutthecrap.typepad.com/main/2011/11/cutting-the-crap-michael-moore-on-dhs-conspiracy.html). Miraculously, this "reporter" got a tip from DHS that no national reporter received, and even though Mr. Ellis walks back his original accusation, he promises updates in the future. Well, it’s the future. It’s two weeks later and crickets from Mr. Ellis. Mission accomplished, though. Ask people who are paying attention to the OWS movement and they’ll swear up and down that yes, it was coordinated by DHS because MICHAEL MOORE and now NAOMI WOLF say so.
Truth: We don’t know. It isn’t completely out of the realm of possibility for mayors to consult with DHS. After all, that’s what they’re there for. To help local and state governments deal with threats, real, rumored or perceived. At best, one can conclude that maybe they did, and maybe they didn’t coordinate, and if they did coordinate, no one knows to what extent they did or whether there was any sort of "blessing" and/or mandate from DHS to what they ultimately chose to do.
The best anyone can say is "maybe". But if Wolf were not trying to stoke an international narrative she has chosen, she would have had a look at Portland, where there is some evidence that DHS was consulted (http://blogtown.portlandmercury.com/BlogtownPDX/archives/2011/11/25/more-questions-about-city-hall-the-feds-and-occupy-portland) because the occupiers were adjacent to federal land.
There is another line of thinking out there that runs directly counter to the federal-coordination theory: Ruiz wouldn’t comment on this, but one well-placed city source said, in fact, that the feds were mostly inclined to leave Schrunk Plaza open. It was city officials who cajoled them into getting on board—lest they watch most of Occupy’s camp merely move several hundred feet south onto federal land. Which would have been awkward for the city. But also interesting.
Should you accept as fact the idea that the feds were reluctant and the city pushed them along? NO. Why? Because it’s attributed to an anonymous source with nothing to back it up, which makes this theory as worthy as the DHS coordination theory, or just speculation with no facts behind it.
Josh Holland at AlterNet (http://www.alternet.org/media/153104/why_federal_officials_are_probably_not_coordinatin g_a_nationwide_crackdown_on_the_occupy_wall_street _movement/) also notes:
Ironically, the occupation that arguably maintains the best relationship with local officials is Occupy DC, and the Washington, DC government is directly overseen by Congress.
Look, if DHS somehow instructed these cities to dress up their cops in riot gear, pepper spray kneeling protesters, use billy clubs to keep them from crossing imaginary borders, and ultimately throw the lot of them out, then yes, by all means shake your fist. But it's irresponsible for Wolf to publish such incendiary accusations -- accusations of real, physical civil war -- in an international publication, to cite magical articles with unsourced accusations and call it fact. Some might actually call it a lie.
Wolf's hyperbole does harm to the OWS movement and those honest people out there conducting themselves peacefully and with clear intent, because she intentionally tried to stir the fires of anger and discontent and anti-government sentiment on an international level. She should have to either retract or clarify her accusations.
Update Joshua Holland has written his own excellent response (http://joshholland.blogspot.com/2011/11/naomi-wolfs-shocking-truth-about-occupy.html) to Wolf's specific accusations.
When you don’t “connect” wholly disparate “dots,” what you get is far less dramatic. Mayors in a handful of cities, responding to local political pressures, decided to break up their local occupations — decisions that were announced to the press well in advance — and were advised as to how best to do so.
One doesn’t have to like that fact to recognize that it’s hardly shocking, and anything but a sinister assault on local communities’ autonomy.
Also, regarding PERF's* involvement, an interview with the director (http://thephoenix.com/Boston/news/130305-perf-ect-storm/) in The Boston Phoenix:
But what is PERF? And what role, if any, did it play in the police actions? According to PERF Executive Director Chuck Wexler, not the one he had hoped.
His organization is more concerned with improving police practices and policies, he said. He cited a report PERF published in June, which gives advice that runs exactly counter to how Occupy has been handled in most cities — emphasizing communication, respect for the First Amendment, and avoidance of violent methods at nearly all cost.
"Over the years, we've taken on racially biased policing, violent crime, the Gates-Crowley thing in Cambridge," he said. "It's not always pretty, and it's not easy, but I think we owe it to the public to identify best practices."
*PERF is the Police Executives' Research Forum, a group who views themselves as a progressive organization dedicated to reducing police brutality and establishing best practices for police officers in various situations. Until recently, they've been a big target of the right wing for their support of gun control laws.

[Diavolo]

Unless you make over $343k per year in the US, you are the 99%. Carrying the water for the billionaires is just the height of self loathing.

Change is messy. It doesn't happen overnight. I know the camps are working very hard at being neater and I know that the leadership of the camps are trying to keep the alcohol, drugs and weapons and violence out of the camps. For the most part, they are doing a good job. A couple of anecdotal stories here and there don't amount to much in the greater scheme of things.

You can't hold the camps to a higher standard than any other event, unless you're Fox.

Consider this knucklehead (http://newsblaze.com/story/20111126100725pbil.nb/topstory.html).

There is a lot at stake here. I'm sorry that it's inconvenient for a couple of you to walk around an encampment. Or maybe you have to go to another park. For me, it's damned inconvenient to pay 35% of my income in taxes while billionaires pay an average of 11%. Some pay zero. I'll step over, drive around and come back later in support of the Occupy protestors. They are fighting for me. And I will support small business because I am a small business too. If we support each other we will all thrive.

Ciaran, if you didn't lose your house, you partner, your dog and your job, all you lost was on paper and that just doesn't matter. Sorry. It doesn't. I've lost a several hundred thousand dollars, so what? I also lost my job, but I still have my house and my dogs so I consider myself one of the lucky ones.

In my line of work I've met people that are completely broken with no where to turn. Unless you've been on the front line in this country, you don't know. I met a woman last week who lost her job and her house. She has spent her remaining funds boarding her St. Bernard. She's out of money and has to find him a new home. She's sitting out front of the local grocery store with a rescue organization trying to find a good home for her dog. She's nearly 60 and has been couch surfing since she lost her home. Now she's losing her dog too. That is someone who has lost it all. That's who the Occupiers are fighting for and I wholeheartedly support them.

[persiphone]

Anonymous hacks cops coordinating Occupy evictions – PERF goes down
Published on November 21, 2011
8:43 pm by Nenad


Sunday, Anonymous hacktivists assaulted PERF because of their alleged involvement in coordinating police crackdowns on Occupy protests across the country.

Anonymous hacktivists assaulted PERF, the Police Executive Research Forum, by taking down their website and releasing the private information of Sherwin B. “Chuck” Wexler – Executive Director at PERF.
PERF is a private but extremely influential national, non-governmental organization with close ties to law enforcement agencies across the country, as well as the U.S. Department of Homeland Security. The group allegedly orchestrated and coordinated the sometimes brutal police crack down on Occupy Wall Street, and other Occupy movements across the country.
After several news organizations identified PERF as being responsible for advising and coordinating the police crackdowns resulting in Occupy evictions and other brutalities, the hivemind of the nebulous and notorious international Internet collective known as Anonymous began to swarm, and sting.
After feeling the sting of Anonymous, PERF released a statement on Sunday denying the allegations that they are working behind the scenes coordinating the sometimes brutal evictions of Occupy gatherings across the country. The following is an excerpt from that statement:
Over the last few days, the Police Executive Research Forum has been the subject of several false articles and blog postings alleging that we have been coordinating police crackdowns on Occupy protests. This is not true.
Yet after offering a flat denial of coordinating police activity, the announcement goes on to admit that “PERF conducted two conference calls” with metropolitan police chiefs across the country concerning police response to the Occupy movement. Rather than strengthening their denial, the admission that PERF was conducting conference calls only strengthens the case that PERF was involved in advising and coordinating the police crackdown on the Occupy movement.



right on :)

[Ciaran]

Big ****ing deal! This is the way the frustrated and disadvantagd lobby, in the streets. It has been played out many times in history and will, whether you like it or not. This is a shaming and elitist attitude to have.

Rubbish. Rather, it's elitest for this "movement" to talk of being the 99%.


I'm sorry the "litter" in front of St. Paul's does'nt fit into your neat little idealogical box, but the very social fabric of our civilization is being torn apart due to the waste, corruption, extortion, unaccountability, and unfettered greed behind closed doors by those at the very top and their stubborness in refusing to address these issues, preferring personal gain at the expense of long-term social stability. Clean up this corruption at the top and put these people in jail instead of the OWS campers. "Litter" in the streets is small potatoes compared to corporate and purchasable.gov. and their wasteful spending.

Desecration of a church is something I don't like. I won't apologise for that. It's not about an "ideeological box" whatever the **** that is.

Very over dramatic to talk of "the very social frabric of our civilisation is being torn apart", esp given that the unfettered greed and selfishness has existed since God created Adam & Eve. It didn't originate from the 2007 / 2008 financial crisis and it won't end once the Occupy movement burns itself out in early 2012.

[Diavolo]

Rubbish. Rather, it's elitest for this "movement" to talk of being the 99%.



Desecration of a church is something I don't like. I won't apologise for that. It's not about an "ideeological box" whatever the **** that is.

Very over dramatic to talk of "the very social frabric of our civilisation is being torn apart", esp given that the unfettered greed and selfishness has existed since God created Adam & Eve. It didn't originate from the 2007 / 2008 financial crisis and it won't end once the Occupy movement burns itself out in early 2012.

If the churches (Kings of Columbus and LDS) hadn't banded together in California to push through an agenda of hate in the form of Proposition 8 I might feel differently, but if you're going to get in the muck, you'd better be ready to get dirty. The churches gave up their right to feign desecration when they funded an election to take away my right to marry the person of my choice. Game over.

[persiphone]

:blink: :eyebrow:


:cracked:


:runforhills:


:grindevil:

[BstlMyhart]

i was talking about the reactions of police to a corrections officer i know (and hopefully hy'll post about it *hint hint nudge nudge*) and basically our police force is not trained on how to deal with protests of this magnitude and are only trained in how to deal with rioting. hence, the riot response to a peaceful protest. my question is....now that they've used riot response tactics on peaceful protesters....will they step back and start practicing tactful responses to a peaceful protest rather than the overkill we've seen up to this point? i think that's what will define which road this is going to go down. i'm afraid that the police reactions are just going to escalate the violence and i'm afraid that this is actually the point, so that they have an excuse to continue along these lines of force and brutality.
__________________
".....one of the three femmes of the apocalypse"
Ok Persi…here it is.
I am in law enforcement. Although my area is in corrections, I do understand the actions of police during their conflict with the protestors of the Occupy Movement…NO I do not agree with some of law enforcement’s behavior.
Throughout history, anytime a police force is assembled to disperse a crowd, it WAS because a riot was taking place. People’s lives were at stake by members of society, property was being destroyed, and communities were under siege.
Yes, the “Sit In” protests of the Civil Rights Movement were intended to be nonviolent in nature. However, most of those protests took place in the south, where the vast majority of the police force was white, and did not agree with the movement and had the approval of a higher authority (Arkansas Governor Orval Faubus…Alabaman Governor George Wallace) and therefore were allowed to use brute force against those peaceful protestors.
We are taught levels of force.
1. Show of Force…a large number of responding units displaying their badge of office.
2. Verbal Commands…self explanatory…orders to disperse.
3. Chemical Agents…though unpopular they are effective in dispersing a crowd without causing long term physical harm.
Those are the first 3 steps and I don’t know of ANY officer who hopes an incident will escalate from there. Law enforcement agencies have not been taught a different way to deal with true peaceful protests. They are simply following orders…if they don’t they may well lose their livelihood…their families would then suffer the repercussions. I believe that no one involved with the Occupy Movement would want that to happen. New training must be implemented to assist these officers to do their job effectively in a new way.

Here is an example of doing to what we did, what we know now, and how many agencies (where I live) have evolved to deal with people who have mental illness.

Most psychiatric hospitals were shut down in the 1970s. The thinking was that money could be saved and those who needed care could and would receive it through local community programs. What has happened is that most did not have the follow up care they needed, they were not monitored to ensure they were taking their medications properly, and fell through all the cracks. At that point, those with mental illness found themselves getting into trouble and the population in prisons and jails nationally has increased to the point where those individuals now make up 50% of all those incarcerated. Over 1.26 million people incarcerated suffer from some sort of mental illness with 20% classified as “severe”.

By and large, force was the only way anyone in law enforcement knew how to control an “unruly” person, either by a patrol officer or a corrections officer. We now receive training on how to approach these individuals, “talk them down” when they are escalating, how to speak with them in a manner in which they won’t feel threatened to be able to help them, and how not to be afraid of the term “mental illness”.

Regarding mental health disorders….we know better so we do better.

This is the case with the Occupy Movement. Law enforcement has always been called to protect the community from uprisings, to protect lives and property in those times, and as always at a danger to themselves.

We show up in riot gear because the past has taught us that we are a prime target for violence and we must protect ourselves…someone loves us too and wants us home safe. And there’s always a bad apple on any side of an issue.

I believe in the right to assemble…though I don’t think our forefathers added, “For a permit fee” into the Constitution. I believe new training must be implemented to address the Occupy gatherings in an effective manner with much less force when possible.

I believe when we know better…we do better.

[Ciaran]

The churches gave up their right to feign desecration when they funded an election to take away my right to marry the person of my choice. Game over.

There's no game over as that would suggest you've won some sort of victory. You haven't. Desecration is desecration is desecration.

[Diavolo]

I believe in the right to assemble…though I don’t think our forefathers added, “For a permit fee” into the Constitution. I believe new training must be implemented to address the Occupy gatherings in an effective manner with much less force when possible.

I believe when we know better…we do better.

The quote of the day. Straight up.

[persiphone]

There's no game over as that would suggest you've won some sort of victory. You haven't. Desecration is desecration is desecration.


like the desecration of childrens lives at the hands of pedophiles in priests robes. seems like it comes from both sides and the church has never struck me as a victim of anything throughout history.

[Diavolo]

There's no game over as that would suggest you've won some sort of victory. You haven't. Desecration is desecration is desecration.

It's an American colloquial term, referring to the end of a video game. I haven't won a thing. As a matter of fact, we all lose.

The church has no right after what they did to us in California. None. They have no right in America after they allowed the protests at the funerals of fallen soldiers. They lose the right to absolution from desecration in this country by their behavior. When it's all said and done, St. Peter is going to look at these clowns and ask them why in the world they think they should be allowed past the pearly gates because they have not followed God's word. Perhaps the church has behaved better in England. Oh no, that can't be it, that's why we're here in the America in the first place.

[SoNotHer]

Diavolo - "Unless you make over $343k per year in the US, you are the 99%. Carrying the water for the billionaires is just the height of self loathing."

So well said I had to reread it a couple times.

"Change is messy. It doesn't happen overnight."

Yes, as a good friend recently said, few protests if any or change don't come without a mess.

"Ciaran, if you didn't lose your house, you partner, your dog and your job, all you lost was on paper and that just doesn't matter. Sorry. It doesn't. I've lost a several hundred thousand dollars, so what? I also lost my job, but I still have my house and my dogs so I consider myself one of the lucky ones.

In my line of work I've met people that are completely broken with no where to turn. Unless you've been on the front line in this country, you don't know. I met a woman last week who lost her job and her house. She has spent her remaining funds boarding her St. Bernard. She's out of money and has to find him a new home. She's sitting out front of the local grocery store with a rescue organization trying to find a good home for her dog. She's nearly 60 and has been couch surfing since she lost her home. Now she's losing her dog too. That is someone who has lost it all. That's who the Occupiers are fighting for and I wholeheartedly support them."

This breaks my heart. Pets are one more casualty in the financial free fall we are in. I found an elderly dog abandoned in a park this afternoon where I shoot at an archery range. I was not happy to find this older golden retriever - disabled, losing hair, drooling and clearly dumped by a boat ramp.

Two things -

1) kudos to the woman you met, Diavolo, for doing the right thing for her dog, and I hope she gets a real break soon. There are people right now making very hard choices about pets and housing and medications and families. I feel for them.

and

2) kudos to the two officers who came out to help me with this dog and the animal control officer who volunteered on his day off when the dispatcher told him what I had reported. Whatever the person's economic situation, I make no excuses for what I saw today when I know at the very least dropping this dog off at the humane society or veterinarian's office less than 10 minutes away would have at least ensured that this dog did not lie in a park in the rain waiting for death by starvation, exposure or coyotes.

I have great respect for emergency responders who face difficult situations some times on a daily basis and face them with grace and compassion. And I have great respect for those who see and understand that social and economic justice is the essential foundation of peace and progress.

[greeneyedgrrl]

Throughout history, anytime a police force is assembled to disperse a crowd, it WAS because a riot was taking place. People’s lives were at stake by members of society, property was being destroyed, and communities were under siege.
Yes, the “Sit In” protests of the Civil Rights Movement were intended to be nonviolent in nature. However, most of those protests took place in the south, where the vast majority of the police force was white, and did not agree with the movement and had the approval of a higher authority (Arkansas Governor Orval Faubus…Alabaman Governor George Wallace) and therefore were allowed to use brute force against those peaceful protestors.
We are taught levels of force.
1. Show of Force…a large number of responding units displaying their badge of office.
2. Verbal Commands…self explanatory…orders to disperse.
3. Chemical Agents…though unpopular they are effective in dispersing a crowd without causing long term physical harm.
Those are the first 3 steps and I don’t know of ANY officer who hopes an incident will escalate from there. Law enforcement agencies have not been taught a different way to deal with true peaceful protests. They are simply following orders…if they don’t they may well lose their livelihood…their families would then suffer the repercussions. I believe that no one involved with the Occupy Movement would want that to happen. New training must be implemented to assist these officers to do their job effectively in a new way.


thank you for speaking to this. while some of the officers may hold your view, i have talked to several officers in my state who have a different viewpoint... that seems to be that the ows are wasting everyone's time, money and energy and should go home and if they don't they deserve and should expect a violent smack down from the pd. i would love to believe that it is just a lack of training, but having known at least one of these officers (she is my cousin, unfortunately) i have to say that this is how she thought prior to becoming part of the police department. i believe that it goes much deeper than training, it is who the pd recruits, allows to wear a badge, it is the qualities and behaviors in the officers that are nurtured and encouraged. in cali (at least) it seems that officers that show a penchant for violence and power are promoted and rewarded. imho my cousin has NO business whatsoever wearing a badge and carrying a gun. her language is violent, angry and racist, she boasts about the power of her position, and quite frankly i am very glad that she lives some 400 miles away from me, but i know that there are many more out there like her. i know more officers like her. i also see from posts like yours that there are people in law enforcement who are not, and it gives me hope.

i see it as a complex problem:

that there has been some violence at occupy events (whether or not it was committed by occupiers is a whole other issue since the police still have to deal with it and it makes it more difficult for them to see the movement as nonviolent)

that there is space in current law enforcement systems for people like my cousin who are prone to violent behavior prior to training

that in the current system violence is used and expected (no/inadequate training on how to handle non-violent protests)

that the systems of inequality (that were present during the civil rights movement) are still intact

that the general public has been desensitized to violence

that politicians and the powers that be have a vested interest in keeping status quo and not reforming the system of law enforcement as it stands

coordinated (and illegal) federal involvement in local issues

and fear...fear on the part of the pd, on the part of the people and on the part of the corporations and politicians. i think fear is at the root of all of this. the fear of not having enough, the fear of losing what you have, the fear of getting hurt or killed.. it all comes down to fear and until people get out of the part of their brains that humans use when in fear, the ability to think rationally or critically, have understanding, compassion, empathy or any of the other wonderful things that humans are capable of is not possible. i don't know how it is that this system is going to be changed or by whom, but i know that a shift in thinking (and getting out of fear) will be key.

i really hope that you will continue to be part of this discussion as i think that your insights are valuable.

[Gráinne]

Just for the record, St. Paul's is non-denominational, not Roman Catholic.

You name it, any of the three major religions have committed social injustices and atrocities. No arguments. But I'll be darned if anyone wants to make a trash heap out of a place of worship; that I can't abide. To me, it's the same kind of disrespect as ruining a synagogue.

[kannon]

I read some of the media reports about the desecration of St. Paul. One headline reads: Desecration, defecation and class A drugs: Children found living in squalor at St Paul's protest camp

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2064174/Occupy-London-Children-living-squalor-St-Pauls-protest-camp.html#ixzz1esKfxLdh

I didn't see any incidences of actual violence. "They are afraid" that violence is likely due to the growing numbers of "vulnerable" populations. Vulnerable being people with mental illnesses. I love the way they perpetuate the stigma that there is a relationship between the mentally ill and violence. That's total rubbish. Further propaganda or scare tactics: the smell of marijuana. Seriously? Of all the drugs, marijuana is probably the most effective at quelling a violent uproar.
Instead of pepper spray, the police should try passing around a joint. And the uptight police should be required to take a couple of tokes themselves.

[BstlMyhart]

thank you for speaking to this. while some of the officers may hold your view, i have talked to several officers in my state who have a different viewpoint... that seems to be that the ows are wasting everyone's time, money and energy and should go home and if they don't they deserve and should expect a violent smack down from the pd. i would love to believe that it is just a lack of training, but having known at least one of these officers (she is my cousin, unfortunately) i have to say that this is how she thought prior to becoming part of the police department. i believe that it goes much deeper than training, it is who the pd recruits, allows to wear a badge, it is the qualities and behaviors in the officers that are nurtured and encouraged. in cali (at least) it seems that officers that show a penchant for violence and power are promoted and rewarded. imho my cousin has NO business whatsoever wearing a badge and carrying a gun. her language is violent, angry and racist, she boasts about the power of her position, and quite frankly i am very glad that she lives some 400 miles away from me, but i know that there are many more out there like her. i know more officers like her. i also see from posts like yours that there are people in law enforcement who are not, and it gives me hope.

greeneyedgrrl



I do know there are those in law enforcement that believe that brute force is always the answer...and they thrive on it. However, I do not have that mentality, nor do many of my co-workers nor the vast majority of the people in law enforcement in my area. There will always be those who go overboard, or want to, when it comes to using force. It is up to the rest of us to stop the culprit when it is out of order and not justified. Luckily, we have those in my facility who aren't afraid to step in and stop those actions when warranted. Ultimately, it falls on the shoulders of supervisors, higher ranking officers, to maintain the humanity of law enforcement. That is the training needed at this point for the Occupy protests...find a better way to handle the situation at hand to do your job and do it effectively.
I have promoted through the ranks and am now a Lieutenant. I did not earn this because I can "kick ass" if need be. I earned it because I use the most important muscle in my aresonal first...my brain.
The tide is changing...it still needs encouragement to continue to do so.
And yes there is fear on our part...as I said, WE want to go home at the end of our shift safe. I have been trained how to maintain my selfcontrol when in fear for my life without severly hurting or killing anyone...I believe anyone can.

[greeneyedgrrl]

I do know there is are those in law enforcement that believe that brute force is always the answer...and they thrive on it. However, I do not have that mentality, nor do many of my co-workers nor the vast majority of the people in law enforcement in my area. There will always be those who go overboard, or want to, when it comes to using force. It is up to the rest of us to stop the culprit when it is out of order and not justified. Luckily, we have those in my facility who aren't afraid to step in and stop those actions when warranted. Ultimately, it falls on the shoulders of supervisors, higher ranking officers, to maintain the humanity of law enforcement. That is the training needed at this point for the Occupy protests...find a better way to handle the situation at hand to do your job and do it effectively.
I have promoted through the ranks and am now a Lieutenant. I did not earn this because I can "kick ass" if need be. I earned it because I use the most important muscle in my aresonal first...my brain.
The tide is changing...it still needs encouragement to continue to do so.
And yes there is fear on our part...as I said, WE want to go home at the end of our shift safe. I have been trained how to maintain my selfcontrol when in fear for my life without severly hurting or killing anyone...I believe anyone can.

it sounds like you know more officers that think like you than not... and that is fantastic. i really hope that change is happening here as well; i have not seen it in my state, and i realize that doesn't necessarily mean it isn't taking place, it is just outside of my experience... i have had experiences with both pd and co in my state which has been mostly, not all, negative.

[SoNotHer]

BstlMyHart wrote - "I have promoted through the ranks and am now a Lieutenant. I did not earn this because I can "kick ass" if need be. I earned it because I use the most important muscle in my aresonal first...my brain. The tide is changing...it still needs encouragement to continue to do so. And yes there is fear on our part...as I said, WE want to go home at the end of our shift safe. I have been trained how to maintain my selfcontrol when in fear for my life without severly hurting or killing anyone...I believe anyone can."

This is the kind of wisdom and thinking that needs to accompany any position of power and force. Thank you for your post.

[BstlMyhart]

greeneyedgrrl writes--it sounds like you know more officers that think like you than not... and that is fantastic. i really hope that change is happening here as well; i have not seen it in my state, and i realize that doesn't necessarily mean it isn't taking place, it is just outside of my experience... i have had experiences with both pd and co in my state which has been mostly, not all, negative.

SoNotHer writes-This is the kind of wisdom and thinking that needs to accompany any position of power and force. Thank you for your post.



It boils down to respect. I get the behavior I expect by showing respect...and am respected back. Makes defusing a potentially bad situation in the facility much easier.

[Bard]

thank you for speaking to this. while some of the officers may hold your view, i have talked to several officers in my state who have a different viewpoint... that seems to be that the ows are wasting everyone's time, money and energy and should go home and if they don't they deserve and should expect a violent smack down from the pd. i would love to believe that it is just a lack of training, but having known at least one of these officers (she is my cousin, unfortunately) i have to say that this is how she thought prior to becoming part of the police department. i believe that it goes much deeper than training, it is who the pd recruits, allows to wear a badge, it is the qualities and behaviors in the officers that are nurtured and encouraged. in cali (at least) it seems that officers that show a penchant for violence and power are promoted and rewarded. imho my cousin has NO business whatsoever wearing a badge and carrying a gun. her language is violent, angry and racist, she boasts about the power of her position, and quite frankly i am very glad that she lives some 400 miles away from me, but i know that there are many more out there like her. i know more officers like her. i also see from posts like yours that there are people in law enforcement who are not, and it gives me hope.

greeneyedgrrl



I do know there are those in law enforcement that believe that brute force is always the answer...and they thrive on it. However, I do not have that mentality, nor do many of my co-workers nor the vast majority of the people in law enforcement in my area. There will always be those who go overboard, or want to, when it comes to using force. It is up to the rest of us to stop the culprit when it is out of order and not justified. Luckily, we have those in my facility who aren't afraid to step in and stop those actions when warranted. Ultimately, it falls on the shoulders of supervisors, higher ranking officers, to maintain the humanity of law enforcement. That is the training needed at this point for the Occupy protests...find a better way to handle the situation at hand to do your job and do it effectively.
I have promoted through the ranks and am now a Lieutenant. I did not earn this because I can "kick ass" if need be. I earned it because I use the most important muscle in my aresonal first...my brain.
The tide is changing...it still needs encouragement to continue to do so.
And yes there is fear on our part...as I said, WE want to go home at the end of our shift safe. I have been trained how to maintain my selfcontrol when in fear for my life without severly hurting or killing anyone...I believe anyone can.

well put and better the I could have expressed it most in my department feel that way and honestly I have always known that I can get further with communication first and as a Corporal I try to lead with that in mind

[Ciaran]

The church has no right after what they did to us in California. None. They have no right in America after they allowed the protests at the funerals of fallen soldiers. They lose the right to absolution from desecration in this country by their behavior.

Neither you nor anyone else in this "Occupy" movement has the right to judge, same as religious zealots do not have that right. Two sides of the same coin in my book and the coin looks rather tainted.


When it's all said and done, St. Peter is going to look at these clowns and ask them why in the world they think they should be allowed past the pearly gates because they have not followed God's word.

How the **** do you know what St. Peter thinks? :|

[persiphone]

where i live the churches support the Occupy movement and have even offered to allow the protesters to camp in their parking lot. :) they even have erected signs in support of the uprising on the church lawns. we never hear anything along the lines of protesters = degenerate/protesters/mentally ill/homeless/etc/etc/etc/desecraters/blahblah.

i love when churchy people are actually acting like christians. just sayin.

[Ciaran]

where i live the churches support the Occupy movement and have even offered to allow the protesters to camp in their parking lot. :) they even have erected signs in support of the uprising on the church lawns. we never hear anything along the lines of protesters = degenerate/protesters/mentally ill/homeless/etc/etc/etc/desecraters/blahblah.

i love when churchy people are actually acting like christians. just sayin.

Your interpretation of "acting like christians" is different from mine. just sayin.

[persiphone]

Your interpretation of "acting like christians" is different from mine. just sayin.

that's quite obvious :)

[Ebon]

This is an article about the Guy Fawkes masks that some of the people wear at the protest. The article is an interview with Alan Moore. The gentleman that wrote V for Vendetta which is where the mask is from.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2011/nov/27/alan-moore-v-vendetta-mask-protest?newsfeed=true

The comic-book writer Alan Moore is not usually surprised when his creations find a life for themselves away from the printed page. Strips he penned in the 1980s and 90s have been fed through the Hollywood patty-maker, never to his great satisfaction, resulting in both critical hits and terrible flops; fads for T-shirts, badges and shouted slogans have emerged from characters and conceits he has dreamed up for titles such as Watchmen and From Hell. "I suppose I've gotten used to the fact," says the 58-year-old, "that some of my fictions percolate out into the material world."

But Moore has been caught off-guard in recent years, and particularly in 2011, by the inescapable presence of a certain mask being worn at protests around the world. A sallow, smirking likeness of Guy Fawkes – created by Moore and the artist David Lloyd for their 1982 series V for Vendetta. It has a confused lineage, this mask: the plastic replica that thousands of demonstrators have been wearing is actually a bit of tie-in merchandise from the film version of V for Vendetta, a Joel Silver production made (quite badly) in 2006. Nevertheless, at the disparate Occupy sit-ins this year – in New York, Moscow, Rio, Rome and elsewhere – as well as the repeated anti-government actions in Athens and the gatherings outside G20 and G8 conferences in London and L'Aquila in 2009, the V for Vendetta mask has been a fixture. Julian Assange recently stepped out wearing one, and last week there was a sort of official embalmment of the mask as a symbol of popular feeling when Shepard Fairey altered his famous "Hope" image of Barack Obama to portray a protester wearing one.

It all comes back to Moore – a private man with knotty greying hair and a magnificent beard, who prefers to live without an internet connection and who has not had a working telly for months "on an obscure point of principle" about the digital signal in his hometown of Northampton. He has never yet properly commented on the Vendetta mask phenomenon, and speaking on the phone from his home, Moore seems variously baffled, tickled, roused and quite pleased that his creation has become such a prominent emblem of modern activism.

"I suppose when I was writing V for Vendetta I would in my secret heart of hearts have thought: wouldn't it be great if these ideas actually made an impact? So when you start to see that idle fantasy intrude on the regular world… It's peculiar. It feels like a character I created 30 years ago has somehow escaped the realm of fiction."

V for Vendetta tells of a future Britain (actually 1997, nearly two decades into the future when Moore wrote it) under the heel of a dictatorship. The population are depressed and doing little to help themselves. Enter Evey, an orphan, and V, a costumed vigilante who takes an interest in her. Over 38 chapters, each titled with a word beginning with "V", we follow the brutal, loquacious antihero and his apprentice as they torment the ruling powers with acts of violent resistance. Throughout, V wears a mask that he never removes: bleached skin and rosy cheeks, pencil beard, eyes half shut above an inscrutable grin. You've probably come to know it well.

"That smile is so haunting," says Moore. "I tried to use the cryptic nature of it to dramatic effect. We could show a picture of the character just standing there, silently, with an expression that could have been pleasant, breezy or more sinister." As well as the mask, Occupy protesters have taken up as a marrying slogan "We are the 99%"; a reference, originally, to American dissatisfaction with the richest 1% of the US population having such vast control over the country. "And when you've got a sea of V masks, I suppose it makes the protesters appear to be almost a single organism – this "99%" we hear so much about. That in itself is formidable. I can see why the protesters have taken to it."

Above is only part of the article. Check out the link if you want to read the whole thing.

[Ebon]

where i live the churches support the Occupy movement and have even offered to allow the protesters to camp in their parking lot. :) they even have erected signs in support of the uprising on the church lawns. we never hear anything along the lines of protesters = degenerate/protesters/mentally ill/homeless/etc/etc/etc/desecraters/blahblah.

i love when churchy people are actually acting like christians. just sayin.

It seems that quite often people forget about the Christ part of their Christianity. This is really cool to hear.