The Mythical *Pass* for Differently-Abled People

[Leigh]

Originally Posted by SuperFemme

Braedon, your posts in this thread are nothing short of amazing. How special of you to share your ah-ha moment.

It is SO hard to put such personal things out there on the web for all to see, and when I chose to do so in regards to my different abilities it was in the hope that I could build bridges to others like me. So the fact that you just got brave and shared these pieces of yourself makes it all worth it.

I love what you said about being more than your disability. You're right, the sum of all your parts is so much deeper than that one piece of your puzzle.

I admire you back, times 100.

SF,

I have always admired you, because you've always just been yourself which is WAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY more than just what makes you "differently-abled". I know you've always just been you, but in many ways I look upto you because you personify what it means to be more than your disability; your a wonderful example overcoming adversity to break down the barriers around you and still live life as best as you can. I think your an amazing woman, a wonderful human being and I'm proud to be counted among those who you admire

Originally Posted by AtLastHome

YES... YES...YES... a zillion YESSES!!!

I"ll add another zillion YESSES to that My friend

[JustBeingMe]

I truly have enjoyed reading this thread and all the posts made here. SF I totally get what your saying about being a DA and being treated differently and how that can also be done online as well. I don't give passes to anyone for the reasons you have talked about. I am someone that will call BS on anyone that gives Excuses for their behavior. Each individual IS responsible for their own behavior and how they treat one another online. I do understand that each person with a DA does need compassion and understanding but when they act out badly towards others, yeah, they should be called on it for sure.
I know at times I have read posts and the infighting starts over things, that I just don't get why so much hostility has to be done with one another. I find it hard to understand in my world why sometimes people get so upset over things that seem so little importance to me, but I guess it's either their compassion about a subject, or some kind of personal experience that makes them take jabs at others online. Then you have the S**t starters stirring the pot.
On one site I belonged to, I notice that some femmes were not called on their posts near as much as butches were... on how things were said online in posts. That I didn't get either. {Maybe it was just certain femmes )or maybe certain mods or whatever that didn't say nothing, but the minute I posted something that was taken out of context I got jabbed in the thread for it right off the bat, with no warning that something I said was taken the wrong way or whatever.
So, I am grateful for the mods and admins here for the job they do and for going out of their way to PM members about their posts when things may be taken the wrong way, or said or whatever.
I"m rambling so I'll stop now. My mind is full of anxiety as I type.

[AtLast]

Just read this on another thread.... and it brought some perspective to me.... reminded of how life can turn on a dime and how I need to keep humility in mind.

Dear Butch Femme Community,
I haven't been here very much lately due to life in the fast line. Just want to say how important it is to take care of and be kind to one another at every step of the way.

I am rethinking life on life's terms. I am evaluating why needless sarcasm echo's, winding it's way into my sleep, waking me with that feeling of flight. I am seeing hidden agenda's flash before my eyes, maybe a day, a week or a month late.

I got a wake up call Weds. about how precious our relationships with each other are when a dear friend was having a simple laparoscopy as I read Esquire in the surgical waiting room. I kept calling recovery on her status. She didn't make it to the recovery room. She ended up on a respirator, and was taken directly to ICU. She now is in a coma.

Her out of the area homophobic bio-family does not understand how deeply we miss her and want her to know, to visit her bedside, even if she is in a drug induced coma. Her sister reminds me every time I call her that 'W/we" are not permitted to visit or get any information.

I am not wasting another day on other's hyperbole or tying up the abatross.. I am going to clean out my closet and my life of chaff that weighs heavily on my body and mind. How many sweatshirts and ballcaps can one have from world travels. What nostalgia? The homeless can use the headcover!

[SuperFemme]

Yes, life CAN turn on a dime, can't it?
I wish my life would stay away from dimes.

[waxnrope]

Although difficult for me to post right now (my laptop did not leave the plane with me, and this note sent via phone ... a laborious task, indeed), I wish to come out about my own disability/ies. I have 3 bulging discs in the lore spine. I suspect there exists one or two in my thoracic, or upper spine as well ... I would have to throw a hissy fit to get a mri for confirmation. Anyway, there is the back, and there are major problems with my knees. The latter a developmental problem, which is due to my patellas (kneecaps) being off to the side. Over time, in part because of excessive use ( basketball and dancing ) my disability is now becoming less hidden.

I do not care if I cannot play basketball any longer. I stopped needing to be a jock long ago. But dancing is everything to me. It is a means of multiple expressions ... my physically, spirituality, and sexuality. To dance provides me with opportunities to become part of the music ... to be in the rhythm section or too develop contractually. I do/can not dance as often, but when I cannot stand the absence any longer, I wrap my knees, take some drugs, and boogie ... or, salsa, or waltz, or two step. Or, whatever the genre. Hip-hop, swing. Just go.

And, yeah, Ive passed for decades. But now, with age,it isn't so easy. When I finally have to hang up my two toned shoes, somebody be nice and just shoot my ass.

[Leigh]

Life can turn so easily from good to bad to worse, as AtLast's example shows (and I read that very post earlier too). We never know when our time on earth will end, it could be tomorrow or years from now but we always must make every moment count ~ this thread has shown Me that, and I'm thankful that I have the Planet and the friends on it to show Me these things (especially when I take things for granted which I have for a long time now).

I'm truly blessed

[christie]

I'm back from TN and have tried to catch up on the thread. Eight hours in the car gives me quite a bit of time to think!

SF - I saw your note that you felt my posts to Snow were dismissive. I'm sorry you perceived them to be and I thought I included, several times, my intent in an effort to have them NOT be mis-perceived. Additionally, I don't know that I agree that Snow felt they were dismissive, because, in my history, she is very vocal at making it crystal clear if she feels this way and since she had addressed me in a rep note, I would think that she would have included such. I don't want to derail this thread but I did want to address it in the thread since your response to me was not PM'd. If you feel we need to discuss it further, please PM me.

One of the things that came up in my marathon drive/think fest is how I think neuro DA persons might (probably do) find online communities/communication problematic and I think that this is what we are referring to when we talk about the mythical pass.

For me, I have always viewed Bratboy's online interactions as "practice" for his social skills. Its much easier for him to have the anonymity of the keyboard. I daresay that its one of the reasons he has been able to develop such good real-time social skills.

He does, however, have issue with reading tone and intent. He is very literal in his interpretation and always has been. In the same way that one of his issues used to be reading pragmatics of conversation (tone, facial expression, body language), he still has the same issue with tone. I believe that is a good deal of the issues that most of our neuro DA community members experience. I have had several self-identified neuro DA's tell me such. I've yet to come up with a way to assist in navigating this issue, but I keep trying.

In regard to the DA Ambassador role and the hierarchy of Moderators/Administrators, I think its fantastic that Jack and Medusa saw this need and took measures to address it. I like that SF has made public announcements showing her availability.

I do think, however, Belle brings up an issue that I, too, think is problematic in two ways: (1) What if the DA person having an issue doesn't feel a rapport with SF? In following that train of thought, to me, having the hierarchy or next step in the process, what if the DA person doesn't feel comfortable in speaking with a moderator or administrator? These persons, while active, participating community members also have a position of authority and I think something to think about is how that might not feel safe.

(2) Its also been my observation and interpretation that most of the neuro DA's might not see that they even need to ask for assistance. Most of the times when Bratboy has gotten into sticky communication issues, he doesn't see that his behavior is the problem or how what he said/did is offensive/crossing a boundary. How can we, as a community, expect a neuro DA, especially those with communication differences, to have the capacity to know that they need to ask for help? I have issue with expecting a neuro DA person be accountable when they might not have the cognitive ability to look outside of self to see where their part of the issue is the problem.

To both of these points, I would like to see perhaps more public outreach. I feel confident that we can find a way or the words to step into a situation without humiliating (I'm not saying this has happened, but that a neuro DA person might feel as such) or changing the expectation that everyone abide by the TOS.

The reason I include "publicly" is that I think when the issue/offense happens in public and then is dealt with behind the scenes, it reinforces/gives the perception that there is that mythical pass.

Its also why I thought that a peer system of folks who aren't dual-roled as both moderators/position of authority and community members might be a viable supplement to the current process. For instance, Belle might be more comfortable in reaching out to me to ask for clarification of a post rather than having to ask a Moderator, whose role as Moderator is one of "task master". I'm just an equal. I think sometimes, even the NT folks have trouble seeing a Moderator as also a peer - I know I do in spite of the additional efforts the Moderators go to in clarifying from which position they are speaking.

Again, I hope that everyone understands that I am not saying there is anything wrong with, nor am I being unsupportive of the DA Ambassador role/process. I just see how we might be able to supplement it so that we can further dispel the mythical pass perceptions.

[SuperFemme]

I wanted to take a moment to remind everyone that this thread is about ALL differently abled people.

Not just neuro-disabled.

We have so very many types of differently abled people here and I want to make sure that we don't put everyone into a box. Sure, there are those of us who have cognitive issues. But a wheelchair, being hearing impaired, multiple sclerosis, cerebral palsy, an amputee and the rest of the different abilities all tend to lead to the general public thinking that all of it is cognitive (meaning we are all slow) issues. We find people talking louder, and slower and often times in a tone reserved for three year olds.

First of all, cognitive challenges don't = slow. Secondly, talking to DA'd people with the assumption that all DA = Cognitive really demeans us all as human beings.

This is just a gentle reminder, and not directed at any one person. I get super frustrated at the public perceptions around differently abled people and I want to make sure that this community steers clear of that.

If anyone has any questions please feel free to pm me.

thanks,

adele

[christie]

Originally Posted by SuperFemme

I wanted to take a moment to remind everyone that this thread is about ALL differently abled people.

Not just neuro-disabled.

We have so very many types of differently abled people here and I want to make sure that we don't put everyone into a box. Sure, there are those of us who have cognitive issues. But a wheelchair, being hearing impaired, multiple sclerosis, cerebral palsy, an amputee and the rest of the different abilities all tend to lead to the general public thinking that all of it is cognitive (meaning we are all slow) issues. We find people talking louder, and slower and often times in a tone reserved for three year olds.

First of all, cognitive challenges don't = slow. Secondly, talking to DA'd people with the assumption that all DA = Cognitive really demeans us all as human beings.

This is just a gentle reminder, and not directed at any one person. I get super frustrated at the public perceptions around differently abled people and I want to make sure that this community steers clear of that.

If anyone has any questions please feel free to pm me.

thanks,

adele

Originally Posted by SuperFemme

I really want to start a conversation about something near and dear to my heart.

That is the subject of personal responsibility when posting as a differently-abled person. As the Ambassador for such things I think it is an important conversation to have right now.

As some of you know I am differently-abled. I have a severe TBI (traumatic brain injury) as well as some other serious health issues.

What does that mean for *me*? It means that I don't have filters the way normal people do. It means that my frontal temporal lobe was SO damaged that my critical thinking and emotional response mechanisms don't work like yours. It is like using a coffee filter in place of an oil filter maybe. The way that my brain processes and regurgitates is from a very emotional place, and the filtering system that most people have telling them what is okay to say and what is not doesn't work like normal.

I have to live every day very differently than most people in a lot of ways. I have to be reminded to eat, to take medicine, to feed my children, to shower....the list is endless.

I'm getting to the point I promise.

This all means that I have to work a little harder if I want to be a part of society. I have to set alarms, use calendars and rely on the people that love me (truly love me) to keep me on track. Mostly, I have to rely on myself, because at the end of the day it is *me* who has to live with the consequences of not using compensation strategies to fill in for the things that I am lacking.

I have lived this way since July 26, 2003. That is almost exactly 7 years.

For the first three years (while I was in a brain injury rehab program) I really believed that it was the worlds job to understand me. I couldn't understand why I didn't get passes for my ridiculousness because of my head injury.

I now understand that it is my job to the work. That means I don't get a special *Pass* for my different-ability. It is not the worlds fault that I am like this and frankly it is an impossible request that the world compensate for me rather than me compensating for myself.

I don't WANT a pass. I feel angry when I do get one, because it is taking away the day to day work of being Adele that empowers me.

If I act like an asshole, I don't get to say: "I have a head injury".
If I am hurtful to others I don't get to say: "I have a head injury".
If I am racist or sexist or misogynistic I don't get to say: "I have a head injury".
If I am mean spirited and snarky I don't get to say: "I have a head injury".

I instead get to own up to my behaviors. For me, this can mean apologizing, listening (and hearing) when others come to me and say "that was kind of fucked up and heres why", it means writing and re-writing posts, and it means having others check my posts AFTER I've read and re-read what I've written before I hit the submit button.

I am not perfect and I own that there have been plenty of times that I have gotten lazy and complacent. For the most part, I have had to live with the consequences of that. Like Juney un-friending me in Facebook.

So I hope that we as a community can remember that although a person may be differently abled, we are all responsible for our own actions. Head patting and "poor poor baby" responses are diminishing and erasing. I don't know any differently abled person who wants to be pitied.

Pitied would look like me saying anything I want and nobody every caring because poor thing has a head injury.

Accommodated would look like me saying gross things and people calling me out just like anyone else.

Because if somebody got angry with me deservedly that would be a consequence of me not using my compensation strategies. And that needs to happen.

Just because I am differently-abled does not mean that I don't have to live by the same set of rules that the rest of the world does.

When I am babied, coddled, or given leeway that others are not it translates to me that I am indeed challenged and broken beyond repair.

THAT takes away my hope and incentive for living in the world as a human being just like everyone else.

I'd like to have a discussion about this, and hear honest feedback, because I've noticed that sometimes we are given "passes" by our fellow community members (mostly in the spirit of caring/compassion) and I want to talk about how that can or cannot invalidate a differently-abled person.

Thanks.

Adele -

While I appreciate your wanting to be sure that this thread is about all DA persons, I can't help but be just a tad confused at this point.

In your opening post, you specifically wanted to address accountability when posting as a DA person. You went on to speak of your personal experience with TBI, which, to me, falls into neuro-diversity.

I thought that you were wanting to discuss holding DA persons to the same standards in rules and expectations on this site in relation to adhering to the TOS.

While I am sure that physical limitations such as the ones you mention in your last post have bearing and can be related to to a person's state of mind when they post, I don't know how my having a permanent physical disability impacts my posting. I don't know how having a 23% disability of my knee allows me to have the mythical pass you speak of when I am accountable for the words I type - not how long it takes me to navigate going down steps.

I am really not trying to be argumentative and wanted to ask for clarification since my interpretation of your last post seems to conflict with the OP. If the direction of the thread has now changed to talk about how physical disabilities allow DA persons this pass in real-time interactions, so will my participation in this thread.

Thanks,
Christie

[SuperFemme]

Christie I am sorry that this is your perception of what this thread is about.

While I can only speak in absolutes about my own different abilities I am not unable to advocate for all different abilities.

Also, please understand that a bad knee is not a disability. Once you lose all use of that knee, then you cross over into the realm of differently abled.

[Corkey]

I am differently abled and am on meds that can make a difference in what I type. Be it rational to some or just to me, it will seem confusing to others. Meds will do that, so the mythical pass, do I receive it...no because it's still up to me to follow the tos.

[SuperFemme]

Originally Posted by Corkey

I am differently abled and am on meds that can make a difference in what I type. Be it rational to some or just to me, it will seem confusing to others. Meds will do that, so the mythical pass, do I receive it...no because it's still up to me to follow the tos.

BINGO. Thanks Corkey.

[christie]

Originally Posted by SuperFemme

Christie I am sorry that this is your perception of what this thread is about.

While I can only speak in absolutes about my own different abilities I am not unable to advocate for all different abilities.

Also, please understand that a bad knee is not a disability. Once you lose all use of that knee, then you cross over into the realm of differently abled.

Adele - Your response just further confuses me. I'm really trying to understand what the thread intent is at this point because it seems that you have shifted gears, by your very words.

Further, it concerns me that you state you can't advocate for all disabilities but yet, I would see the DA ambassador role as just that - an advocate for all DA persons.

Finally, "a bad knee" as you stated, is certainly not the same as some of the debilitating physical disabilities our community members endure. However, if I fall down the steps with aforementioned bad knee and become a paraplegic, I still don't see how that would impact my accountability for my words and how I chose to interact in an online setting - which, again, was what you stated you wanted this thread to be about.

This feels like we have a difference of opinion and I will respect that they differ.

I would like to hear from you, in your capacity as DA ambassador, how we as a community can further ensure that all our DA persons are treated equally so that the nonDA's don't feel as if bfp and its members give the pass.

[Nina]

"Further, it concerns me that you state you can't advocate for all disabilities but yet, I would see the DA ambassador role as just that - an advocate for all DA persons."

*I* (Nina) may well be misreading or misunderstanding the above..what SF said is :

"I am not unable to advocate for all different abilities."

so...what she said is that while she may not have the Personal experience of the whole range of DAs, she can, indeed, advocate for for a/the variety of different abilities....

I (Nina) have other things I'm thinking on, but my communication skills are not as accurate as I intend these days, so for now I will leave my fingers at rest...

Nina

[SuperFemme]

Originally Posted by Nina

"Further, it concerns me that you state you can't advocate for all disabilities but yet, I would see the DA ambassador role as just that - an advocate for all DA persons."

*I* (Nina) may well be misreading or misunderstanding the above..what SF said is :

"I am not unable to advocate for all different abilities."

so...what she said is that while she may not have the Personal experience of the whole range of DAs, she can, indeed, advocate for for a/the variety of different abilities....

I (Nina) have other things I'm thinking on, but my communication skills are not as accurate as I intend these days, so for now I will leave my fingers at rest...

Nina

You read my post completely right.
Thank you for that.

I thought I had been clear.

[friskyfemme]

Good Day to all here...
I have a diagnosis of Dyslexia and ADD. I consider my different wiring as a challenge not a disability. However my brother who is living with a severe TBI frontal lobe damage as
more than differently abled. He is nonverbal, highly behavioral, with severe cognitive disability. I do not expect he be given a 'pass' I expect that persons that do his direct care are capable of helping him interpret his world so his reaction to stimulas like sudden noises, touches, transitions, bathing, eating, drinking can be within calm responses. He isn't capable of explaining his response. I doubt that he understands why he responds to things the way he does. Sometimes more extreme than other times. The fact that you here can relay to others the particulars of your disability is great for you.

Be patient and loving in your exchange. Know that those who most need advocation can not ask for it themselves.

[Medusa]

I'd like to make a few comments here:

* Adele is very, very smart but is not trained as a social worker, therapist, or disability liaison. She uses her lived experience as a DA person to thoughtfully filter the needs of DA people on this site up to us and to provide guidance on these kinds of discussions and to answer questions of newbie DA folks. She isn't in a position of authority, she is here because I asked her to help keep watch for places that we could improve the experiences of DA folks on this site, to answer questions, and to check our processes for accessibility.
I think she does an excellent job.

* The experiences of DA people on this site is important to me, as well as the experiences of people who are not DA. That means that we need a healthy symbiosis for people of all levels of ability to interact here. The TOS is the structure for that and provides a standard code of conduct for everyone to follow.

* I think we do a pretty good job on this site of reaching out to one another when there is a need. Sure, there's room for improvement but I do see many people willing to give time and energy to help people who need it.

* While I am completely comfortable with people offering help and answering questions on a member to member basis, I dont see a time when the site will institute an administrative structure that will take on the responsibility of providing therapeutic assistance to DA people. It would put us in a really bad legal position and open us up to alllll kinds of potential lawsuits.

I see the position of Ability Ambassador as a member-supported function that provides guidance, limited assistance, and a higher level of visibility for DA folks here. That position is not and can't be responsible for the experiences of the many DA folks here. It simply isn't possible or responsible. I think that providing a clear and concise TOS, being available as Admins and Mods, and checking our processes for holes and marginalizing verbiage can go a long way. The other parts, we can do as a membership. The main part, in my mind, must come from a person's willingness to follow the TOS.
What I mean by this is that I see a huge difference in people who are having difficulty understanding things and making mistakes but who generally try to interact in healthy ways, and people who are differently abled but who also interact in intentionally hateful, rude, or shit-stirring ways. Some things are about the difference in ability and some things are about a person being unwilling to follow the rules because they think they are the only person who matters.

I will also say that I do see how people who have *physical* disabilities can have a harder time interacting on this site.
For example: Member "A" has both feet amputated due to Diabetes and is on an incredible amount of pain meds. Posting will on pain meds, Member "A" makes statements or interacts in ways that are against the TOS, outside of the range of how they normally behave, etc.

Another example: We recently had someone who is on partial disability for carpal tunnel ask us to provide voice-to-type software for them to be able to participate here.

Another example: Users who are sight-impaired and who use a voice service to transcribe the words that are typed for them might not be able to participate in chat because the voice service cant transcribe the conversation as fast as it happens, thus the sight-impaired member is constantly behind on the conversation and cant participate with other members on the same level.

Im pretty thankful that this conversation exists. I am learning a lot.

[AtLast]

Originally Posted by friskyfemme

Good Day to all here...
I have a diagnosis of Dyslexia and ADD. I consider my different wiring as a challenge not a disability. However my brother who is living with a severe TBI frontal lobe damage as
more than differently abled. He is nonverbal, highly behavioral, with severe cognitive disability. I do not expect he be given a 'pass' I expect that persons that do his direct care are capable of helping him interpret his world so his reaction to stimulas like sudden noises, touches, transitions, bathing, eating, drinking can be within calm responses. He isn't capable of explaining his response. I doubt that he understands why he responds to things the way he does. Sometimes more extreme than other times. The fact that you here can relay to others the particulars of your disability is great for you.

Be patient and loving in your exchange. Know that those who most need advocation can not ask for it themselves.

I appreciate what you are saying here. My late sister had paranoid schizophenia and even when taking medications, had very delusional thinking. Her capacity was very diminished at times and she just was unable to understand many social ques. She also was very smart, kind, and lived life aware of the fact that her potential could never be achieved due to her mental illness. When she died, my tears were mixed because I knew there was so much she missed due to her illness even though I just plain loved her like she was. Her sensibilities compared to mine were just not the same. Never could be.

You are so right on about some just not being able to advocate nor ask for this, themselves.

I think the Planet does an excellent job in being sensitive to DA issues (Medusa's post is very clear). Adele does a great service here, I believe. And no, I do not know her in real-time. Nothing is ever perfect, but it sure seems like the admin gives DA a serious look and offers support and understanding while being responsible for the entire site. And hey, Dusa has had to box my stubborn ears and I deserved it. Yes, I have challenges, my sister had a very different set of variables.

[Apocalipstic]

I have thought about this a lot.

First let me say that I think it is incredible that this website even wants to have a DA ambassador and that anyone wants to take that on.

What I see, kind of jumping off what Medusa said is sometimes different dissabilities intersect in a negative and dangerous way. Say someone with no filters and an anger disorder spouts off something that is very detrimental for someone with PTSD.

Volatile situation.

Whose disoder is worse or trumps the other?

Or is it ok for the person with anger opportunities to be able to insult other members at all? disorder or no?

I think the TOS has to be the wall at which it stops. Can you follow the rules after being given time outs and suggested coping mechanisms you refuse to take advantage of. Is your behavior hurtful and detrimental to other members?

Do my rights stop where someone else's begin?

[christie]

Originally Posted by SuperFemme

You read my post completely right.
Thank you for that.

I thought I had been clear.

SF - You were clear. My apologies. I did mis-read your post - and thats why it bothered me! lol

That is a prime example of how the fallout issues of a physical disability can impact our posting. Today is fibro flare. Hence, my misreading of your post - fibro fog.

My apologies.