The Mythical *Pass* for Differently-Abled People

[adorable]

Originally Posted by julieisafemme

Adorable you made a blanket statement that people with mental illness do not have a choice. In my experience that is simply not true. You also likened Plato's insistence on choice as privileged. For myself your characterizing people with mental illness as unable to make choices was privileged. You base your definition of choice, rational thought, and self-awareness on the "norm" of those who are not differently abled. This ignores the fact that DA people vary greatly in their abilites and that within their own range of experience they are able to make choices, have rational thoughts and be self-aware.

You went on to use two examples of how people with mental illness do not have a choice. One was an anxiety disorder example like OCD and the other seemed to be more of a thought disorder example. I am not sure what your background is. I am not sure where you get these examples. I am not sure if you are DA. I am not making any assumptions about that.

I am DA. I am letting you know that it is important to me to give another persepctive on the statement that mentally ill people do not have a choice.

As far as the whole example you made at the end I am not sure what to say. I very much dislike hypotheticals in discussions like these. I have a very hard time grasping them. In the situation you outlined I would politely say no thank you and put you on ignore. No pass. What your intent was or what your capactiy is would not be a part of my thought process.

Oh! Edited to add that if anyone is interested in an excellent book on mental illness and choice please read The Center Cannot Hold by Elyn R. Saks. This is the best book I have ever read in describing mental illness and what is possible within one person to adapt and cope with it. I cannot recommend it highly enough!

Oh! One more thing. The assumption that we walk around with the same capacity is not true. I agree there. That is not what I am saying or implying. All I am saying is that we all walk around with capacity! Everyone has the capacity to do and be things. Everyone.

I was not trying to make a blanket statement about all which is why I used the word "some" a lot. Not all. Not by any stretch of the imagination. But that "some" for me matters. If what is presenting to you LOOKS a certain age and appear that they SHOULD be able to understand - that to me is different then actually being either.

Capacity to understand is not a given. Taking responsibilty for me, must include the understanding of what taking responsibilty means. Just because we can have these complex thoughtful discussions doesn't mean that everyone has capacity. So to me, the answer isn't well I will just ignore them then. I am DA at different times based on a medical condition that I have. I certianly have DA peeps in my family all to varying degrees.

I have no patience. None. I would make the worst nurse or teacher in the world. I don't love people, as in the collective lets hold hands around a campfire and sing, type love for all.

But when it comes to this issue, I think that we as a society are quick to label people and toss them if they don't fit nicely. Not everyone gets it. Not everyone has the capacity to get it. Or even knows there is an "it" to get. Yet, we can all scream at them and hold them to a standard the we ourselves are able to maintain. We can do this because WE get it. When we hold people to OUR standard of thinking and capacity and place those expectations on other people - that is priviledged. I am priviledged if I do that to someone who has trouble walking and I want them to hurry up and get out of my way. I can walk. That person should just move faster. If they can't move faster oh well, I guess I could knock them out of the way because they do have legs - I can see them they must be chosing not to use them the same way I use mine.

It is not black and white. Our laws are designed to keep that in mind. Intent, understanding, capacity, intelligence are all factors in determining motive. We all do it. HOW we do it and how we read things matters.

I hear you saying that you want people to know that mentally ill people have capacity. I get that. I have most definately met people that do. I have also met people who do not. I apologize if it felt like I was catagorizing all people with mental illness as not having capacity or choice.