The Mythical *Pass* for Differently-Abled People

[SuperFemme]

Right now I really really want to be dramatic and declare the thread closed, apologize for bringing this up and make innuendos that I am leaving and boy will everyone be sorry. Really bad.

Instead.

I'm going to take a deep breath and try to figure out where I am not saying this correctly.

Is it that I haven't defined "the mythical *pass*"?

Am I shaming people who try hard to give room and leeway to DA people?

Am I just stuck on my thought and not hearing people?

[Liam]

Originally Posted by SuperFemme

Right now I really really want to be dramatic and declare the thread closed, apologize for bringing this up and make innuendos that I am leaving and boy will everyone be sorry. Really bad.

Instead.

I'm going to take a deep breath and try to figure out where I am not saying this correctly.

Is it that I haven't defined "the mythical *pass*"?

Am I shaming people who try hard to give room and leeway to DA people?

Am I just stuck on my thought and not hearing people?

I hear you saying that as a person with Traumatic Brain Injury, you are differently abled, and that you wish to be held accountable for what you say, how you say it, as well as how you behave. I hear you saying that you wish to be held accountable by the same standards of those who are not differently abled.

[SuperFemme]

Originally Posted by Liam

I hear you saying that as a person with Traumatic Brain Injury, you are differently abled, and that you wish to be held accountable for what you say, how you say it, as well as how you behave. I hear you saying that you wish to be held accountable by the same standards of those who are not differently abled.

I am saying that I want the same rules.

I am uncomfortable saying that there is only one way of accountability, because people communicate on a myriad of levels.

I am saying that I want the opportunity to be accountable.

That means I want to know if I've done something wrong. I don't want people to be afraid to tell me.

I also don't want everyone to erase all caring and compassion when doing so.

If I had not been thrown out of 10 occupational therapists? I would not have learned that my behavior was unacceptable. So it took me ten times, but then again I was cognitively around 5 or 6 years old. I am closer to my real age now, but it took years.

So usually I am able to learn in three or less.

[SuperFemme]

Originally Posted by Corkey

I for one think this is an invaluable thread, and no I think you are saying what you are just fine. if my opinion matters to you, and I think it does. No i don't feel shamed one iota. I do tend to call folks out on isms and for getting in other folks space, when it isn't their place to do so.

Thank you Corkey. Yes, your opinion matters to me greatly.

Originally Posted by urs

No no, I think I hear you!

I guess it's just a very emotive topic, and there are all kinds of issues feeding into it and surrounding it, and its meaning has so many different nuances and so many different connotations to different people. It's a challenging subject, but I think we're going somewhere with it.

Thank you to Urs. I think you are right about all kinds of issues feeding into it and the many nuances. I appreciate the reminder, because sometimes I get frustrated and my brain gets "flooded" which means that I have a hard time processing. I may be flooded right now.

[christie]

Originally Posted by SuperFemme

I am saying that I want the same rules.

I am uncomfortable saying that there is only one way of accountability, because people communicate on a myriad of levels.

I am saying that I want the opportunity to be accountable.

That means I want to know if I've done something wrong. I don't want people to be afraid to tell me.

I also don't want everyone to erase all caring and compassion when doing so.

If I had not been thrown out of 10 occupational therapists? I would not have learned that my behavior was unacceptable. So it took me ten times, but then again I was cognitively around 5 or 6 years old. I am closer to my real age now, but it took years.

So usually I am able to learn in three or less.

I am gonna jump out on a limb here and give a specific example of how I try to apply that lens and I hope you don't mind my using it nor do I want anyone to think I am tooting my own horn....

Jess started a thread something about "What do you do". (http://www.butchfemmeplanet.com/foru...read.php?t=840) SF, you misread the intent and popped off your response based on what you thought the intent was. I thought it rather dismissive and rather than pop off a one liner telling you that I thought you were being dismissive, I took the time and effort to post an explanation that expanded upon the OP. (#17)

You understood it then and went on to make a great post full of non-monetary suggestions.

Was this me giving you a pass? Not to me it wasn't. This was me taking into consideration what you have shared about having TBI and trying to find that different language to communicate the same as Jess. I think that this is the "with caring and compassion" of which you speak.

I think that as an online community, we do no differently than we do in our real communities and homes. I don't discount the lesser educated production worker any more than I want that worker to discount me. Their contribution to the community of our workplace is just as vital as mine.

I know that Snow is making reference to a specific individual and that must be a really tough place to be in.

I do think, however severely DA a person might be, they still have the same needs as those less DA or NT - they still deserve to be here and to contribute in their own ways and I think they still have to be accountable for their actions within the community. I do think that there are considerations and the endless explanations and repeated conversations to be done in order to assist those persons in being here.

To that end, what about a buddy system? What if there were a group of volunteers who rotated buddy duty? I know firsthand how taxing the repetitive explanations can be and how your patience is quickly drained. If there was a rotation of sorts, no one person would be overly utilized and it would give the DA person the opportunity to interact with others and perhaps, through hearing the same message in a different voice, it might just be the "Eureka!" moment.

[The_Lady_Snow]

Yeah, I need to step off this convo cause I am not going to be empathetic to the issues, I can understand taking the time and being empathetic but not to the point where I am being dismissed.

I feel if I continue to advocate my set of limits it makes me look like the big bad wolf, I got enough of that going on.. I also would of liked to continue to post without it being pointed out about who has issues with me cause it's not about one particular individual I am talking about people in general I deal with everyone the same each time. Period

I am out.

[christie]

Originally Posted by The_Lady_Snow

Yeah, I need to step off this convo cause I am not going to be empathetic to the issues, I can understand taking the time and being empathetic but not to the point where I am being dismissed.

I feel if I continue to advocate my set of limits it makes me look like the big bad wolf, I got enough of that going on.. I also would of liked to continue to post without it being pointed out about who has issues with me cause it's not about one particular individual I am talking about people in general I deal with everyone the same each time. Period

I am out.

I apologize if you thought I was out of line in my reference to you, I was merely trying to be supportive because its not like I can't read the posts between you and one individual who has declared themselves to be DA. If you have had these boundary issues with more than one DA person here, its not been apparent in the threads.

I thought my reference was one of empathy and went on to give an idea of how we as a community might be better able to be supportive of your reinforcing your personal boundaries while at the same time being supportive of the DA person.

Again, if this isn't germane to the conversation, I apologize and we clearly see this thread differently.

[SuperFemme]

Originally Posted by The_Lady_Snow

Yeah, I need to step off this convo cause I am not going to be empathetic to the issues, I can understand taking the time and being empathetic but not to the point where I am being dismissed.

I feel if I continue to advocate my set of limits it makes me look like the big bad wolf, I got enough of that going on.. I also would of liked to continue to post without it being pointed out about who has issues with me cause it's not about one particular individual I am talking about people in general I deal with everyone the same each time. Period

I am out.

I wish you wouldn't leave. I want to hear what you have to say.

[SuperFemme]

Clarification: This thread is NOT about any one person. The only personal point of reference in the OP is about me. Adele.

Please do not make this thread about anybody, because it's not and that is not something that is okay to do.

Please do not assume that any one person is being spoken about, because that makes me really super uncomfortable .

[SuperFemme]

Originally Posted by christie0918

I am gonna jump out on a limb here and give a specific example of how I try to apply that lens and I hope you don't mind my using it nor do I want anyone to think I am tooting my own horn....

Jess started a thread something about "What do you do". (http://www.butchfemmeplanet.com/foru...read.php?t=840) SF, you misread the intent and popped off your response based on what you thought the intent was. I thought it rather dismissive and rather than pop off a one liner telling you that I thought you were being dismissive, I took the time and effort to post an explanation that expanded upon the OP. (#17)

You understood it then and went on to make a great post full of non-monetary suggestions.

Was this me giving you a pass? Not to me it wasn't. This was me taking into consideration what you have shared about having TBI and trying to find that different language to communicate the same as Jess. I think that this is the "with caring and compassion" of which you speak.

I think that as an online community, we do no differently than we do in our real communities and homes. I don't discount the lesser educated production worker any more than I want that worker to discount me. Their contribution to the community of our workplace is just as vital as mine.

I know that Snow is making reference to a specific individual and that must be a really tough place to be in.

I do think, however severely DA a person might be, they still have the same needs as those less DA or NT - they still deserve to be here and to contribute in their own ways and I think they still have to be accountable for their actions within the community. I do think that there are considerations and the endless explanations and repeated conversations to be done in order to assist those persons in being here.

To that end, what about a buddy system? What if there were a group of volunteers who rotated buddy duty? I know firsthand how taxing the repetitive explanations can be and how your patience is quickly drained. If there was a rotation of sorts, no one person would be overly utilized and it would give the DA person the opportunity to interact with others and perhaps, through hearing the same message in a different voice, it might just be the "Eureka!" moment.

I appreciate you giving this example. There are totally days that I am not in good form and misread. There are days I don't have my loved ones to read my posts first.

That was one of those days. I would hope that you would give that consideration to anyone. Not just me. Because anyone can misread and pop off.

So no, I don't think that was you giving me a poss. That is not what I am talking about when I say a pass and I think that is where people are getting confused.

Had you taken the time and effort to explain the intent to me, and had I continued coming in and insisting that my interpretation was correct, and kept popping off shitty things? And not been held accountable (reported, pm'd, told in public or whatever) then that is where it becomes something I'd call a pass.

Clarifying ones point and clearing up a misunderstood intent is NOT giving a pass. I also truly hate to think that I got special treatment that you would not give the next person. I hope I am not being rude by saying that I can only remember as reading you patiently explain you point when others don't get it.

It's also a grayer area in the example that you gave because I don't think any rules were broken per se. I think that I was not thoughtful in reading the OP and rude in my reply. Now if I had come in and said: This is stupid. I think you're an asshole" would you have taken the same approach? What if I had continued? I would really hope that you would report me.

So in short, no I don't think you gave me a pass. That is not at all what I meant by giving a pass.

I hope this post gives a better feel for what I am trying to say?

[christie]

Originally Posted by SuperFemme

I appreciate you giving this example. There are totally days that I am not in good form and misread. There are days I don't have my loved ones to read my posts first.

That was one of those days. I would hope that you would give that consideration to anyone. Not just me. Because anyone can misread and pop off.

So no, I don't think that was you giving me a poss. That is not what I am talking about when I say a pass and I think that is where people are getting confused.

Had you taken the time and effort to explain the intent to me, and had I continued coming in and insisting that my interpretation was correct, and kept popping off shitty things? And not been held accountable (reported, pm'd, told in public or whatever) then that where it becomes something I'd call a pass.

Clarifying ones point and clearing up a misunderstood intent is NOT giving a pass. I also truly hate to think that I got special treatment that you would not give the next person. I hope I am not being rude by saying that I can only remember as reading you patiently explain you point when others don't get it.

It's also a grayer area in the example that you gave because I don't think any rules were broken per se. I think that I was not thoughtful in reading the OP and rude in my reply. Now if I had come in and said: This is stupid. I think you're an asshole" would you have taken the same approach? What if I had continued? I would really hope that you would report me.

So in short, no I don't think you gave me a pass. That is not at all what I meant by giving a pass.

I hope this post gives a better feel for what I am trying to say?

I would like to think that most days, I give most people that same consideration.

I do think, however, that its a conditioned response based on parenting a DA child. I know that I have had to learn HOW to be that patient and compassionate. I know that not everyone has that skill set, especially NTs - they (at least the ones in my experience) have no reason to - until they do.

If you had continued a negative rant, I would probably have PM'd you and asked what the fuck your issue was. (How's that for my compassion LOL) I rarely report posts because, at the end of the day, I really do apply that 3F rule (if you dont fuck me, feed me (emotionally or sustenance) or finance me, you really dont have any influence in my life and I try to let it go quickly)

I dont think the answer to the mythical pass is to report posts. I think reporting is a tool - one of many and I think sometimes we are far too quick to hit that button rather than challenge ourselves to find that wave of communication that is mutual and brings understanding.

While we agree that no "rules" were broken, I didnt realize that you were only speaking of the "pass" specifically in rules/TOS terms. To me, the unspoken/unwritten "rules" are much more likely to be broken than the ones that have been clearly stated. I have found that my son (and other DAs) have more issue with the unspoken expectations of socialization far more often than the ones they know about.

Does it make sense that to me, the unspoken social skills/expectations about behaviors and interactions are more problematic than what is covered in the TOS?

[SuperFemme]

Originally Posted by christie0918

I would like to think that most days, I give most people that same consideration.

I do think, however, that its a conditioned response based on parenting a DA child. I know that I have had to learn HOW to be that patient and compassionate. I know that not everyone has that skill set, especially NTs - they (at least the ones in my experience) have no reason to - until they do.

If you had continued a negative rant, I would probably have PM'd you and asked what the fuck your issue was. (How's that for my compassion LOL) I rarely report posts because, at the end of the day, I really do apply that 3F rule (if you dont fuck me, feed me (emotionally or sustenance) or finance me, you really dont have any influence in my life and I try to let it go quickly)

I dont think the answer to the mythical pass is to report posts. I think reporting is a tool - one of many and I think sometimes we are far too quick to hit that button rather than challenge ourselves to find that wave of communication that is mutual and brings understanding.

While we agree that no "rules" were broken, I didnt realize that you were only speaking of the "pass" specifically in rules/TOS terms. To me, the unspoken/unwritten "rules" are much more likely to be broken than the ones that have been clearly stated. I have found that my son (and other DAs) have more issue with the unspoken expectations of socialization far more often than the ones they know about.

Does it make sense that to me, the unspoken social skills/expectations about behaviors and interactions are more problematic than what is covered in the TOS?

As for the report button, that is one of three options I gave. Post back, PM or Report. Because situationally any of these things could be an appropriate response to the example that I gave.

Somtimes, I've heard something from a mod that I wasn't hearing from a member. The report button is not a death sentence to me. It's a valuable tool that can help sometimes.

While I understand where you are coming from social skills/expectations that is not what I am speaking of when discussing a pass.

Social skills and expectations are far too subjective to be "policed", and it would be impossible to apply the idea of giving a pass to somebody because it is so subjective. (to me. outside of my loved ones).

I was speaking about rules. Specifically.

[Corkey]

Originally Posted by SuperFemme

Right now I really really want to be dramatic and declare the thread closed, apologize for bringing this up and make innuendos that I am leaving and boy will everyone be sorry. Really bad.

Instead.

I'm going to take a deep breath and try to figure out where I am not saying this correctly.

Is it that I haven't defined "the mythical *pass*"?

Am I shaming people who try hard to give room and leeway to DA people?

Am I just stuck on my thought and not hearing people?

I for one think this is an invaluable thread, and no I think you are saying what you are just fine. if my opinion matters to you, and I think it does. No i don't feel shamed one iota. I do tend to call folks out on isms and for getting in other folks space, when it isn't their place to do so.

[Ursy]

Originally Posted by SuperFemme

Right now I really really want to be dramatic and declare the thread closed, apologize for bringing this up and make innuendos that I am leaving and boy will everyone be sorry. Really bad.

Instead.

I'm going to take a deep breath and try to figure out where I am not saying this correctly.

Is it that I haven't defined "the mythical *pass*"?

Am I shaming people who try hard to give room and leeway to DA people?

Am I just stuck on my thought and not hearing people?

No no, I think I hear you!

I guess it's just a very emotive topic, and there are all kinds of issues feeding into it and surrounding it, and its meaning has so many different nuances and so many different connotations to different people. It's a challenging subject, but I think we're going somewhere with it.