the Femme Rules the Butch Rules

[Nerds]

ok so I have come across a set of rules of the Femmes out there but no rules for the Butches. So me and a friend were going to make a list of rules for the Butches - but we need some suggestions. To give you an idea - here is the list of Femme Rules:

The Femme Rules


1. The Femme always makes THE RULES.

2. THE RULES are subject to change without notice.

3. No butch can possibly know all THE RULES.

4. If the Femme suspects the Butch knows all THE RULES, she must immediately change some of THE RULES.

5. The Femme is never wrong.

6. If it appears the Femme is wrong, it is because of a flagrant misunderstanding caused by something the Butch did or said.

7. If Rule 6 applies, the Butch must apologize immediately for causing the misunderstanding.

8. The Femme can change her mind at any time without notice.

9. The Butch must never change her mind without the express written consent of The Femme.

10. The Femme has every right to be angry or upset at any time.

11. The Butch must remain calm at all times, unless the Femme wants her to be angry or upset.

12. The Femme must not, under any circumstances, let the Butch know whether she wants her to be angry or upset.

13. The Butch is expected to read the mind of the Femme at all times and act or respond accordingly.

14. What is important is what the Femme meant, not what she said.

15. If the Butch doesn't abide by THE RULES, it is because she can't take the heat, lacks backbone, and is a wimp.

16. If the Femme has PMS, all THE RULES are null and void and the Butch must cater to her every whim.

17. Any attempt to document THE RULES could result in bodily harm.

18. If the Butch, at any time, believes she is right, she must refer to Rule 5.

19. The Butch must kill all bugs at any given time.

20. The Butch must "always be prepared"...





we have 4 rules so far:

1. Make the Femme believe it is her idea

2. just grin and nod

3 if the Femme changes the rules - refer to rule number 2

4 no Butch likes to know all the rules we like the element of surprise



I am sure you all have some good suggestions...

[Soon]

Ruh Roh.

[Corkey]

Oh god here we go again.....

1. this is not funny
2. it has been posted before
3. it is just as offensive now as it was then
4. look out for the flame, it's gonna get hot in here.

[Ryobi]

Grab the "Gold Bond"! Here comes a hide chapping!!

[betenoire]

Butch/Femme does not equal a parroting of heterosexuals. Butches are not our Men (except, you know, for the ones who are but that is besides the point)

This is sexist. It's also stupid. That's the only rule you need to know.

[Jesse]

I feel better about us as a community finding ways to encourage the togetherness and ways that we work well together rather than any of this blank-verses-blank stuff!

[The_Lady_Snow]

Originally Posted by Nerds

ok so I have come across a set of rules of the Femmes out there but no rules for the Butches. So me and a friend were going to make a list of rules for the Butches - but we need some suggestions. To give you an idea - here is the list of Femme Rules:


OY VEY Nerds.......

The Femme Rules


1. The Femme always makes THE RULES.

2. THE RULES are subject to change without notice.

3. No butch can possibly know all THE RULES.

4. If the Femme suspects the Butch knows all THE RULES, she must immediately change some of THE RULES.

5. The Femme is never wrong.

6. If it appears the Femme is wrong, it is because of a flagrant misunderstanding caused by something the Butch did or said.

7. If Rule 6 applies, the Butch must apologize immediately for causing the misunderstanding.

8. The Femme can change her mind at any time without notice.


So far you have insulted every femme in here by insinuating we are fluffless mindless controlling cunts.

9. The Butch must never change her mind without the express written consent of The Femme.

10. The Femme has every right to be angry or upset at any time.

11. The Butch must remain calm at all times, unless the Femme wants her to be angry or upset.

12. The Femme must not, under any circumstances, let the Butch know whether she wants her to be angry or upset.

13. The Butch is expected to read the mind of the Femme at all times and act or respond accordingly.

14. What is important is what the Femme meant, not what she said.

15. If the Butch doesn't abide by THE RULES, it is because she can't take the heat, lacks backbone, and is a wimp.

16. If the Femme has PMS, all THE RULES are null and void and the Butch must cater to her every whim.


So from this I have learned you see us femme's as angry, close to violent abusive beings.

AND we are the only one's who suffer from the PMS cause well butches just miraculously do not

17. Any attempt to document THE RULES could result in bodily harm.

18. If the Butch, at any time, believes she is right, she must refer to Rule 5.

19. The Butch must kill all bugs at any given time.

20. The Butch must "always be prepared"...

Here you assumed that all femme's are scared of bugs, always ready for sex and that we are violent.





we have 4 rules so far:

1. Make the Femme believe it is her idea

2. just grin and nod

3 if the Femme changes the rules - refer to rule number 2

4 no Butch likes to know all the rules we like the element of surprise

Here we learn that you view butches as head noddin' zombies


I am sure you all have some good suggestions...

So there is a thread on this site about Misogyny and Sexism in this community, my suggestion before someone bites your head off if you decide to post another ludicris thing like this happens is read it.

Here is the link for the thread I hope it helps:

http://www.butchfemmeplanet.com/foru...exism+Mysogyny

[Medusa]

Hey Nerds,

I know you meant this to be funny and posted it in the humor section. I think you will find many people aren't amused by humor like this that often takes "man" out of the joke and inserts "Butch" or "Transguy" because it often creates this ugly thing where the Butch/Femme dynamic is just a dressing sheet that is thrown over a hetero relationship.

It can feel negating to the actual lived experiences of many of us here and can also feel as if het relationships are being heralded as the "real" relationships while Queer relationships are just cheap knock-offs.

I think you are new to the community so I hope this explanation helps you understand why people are reacting with irritation. Also keep in mind, many "jokes" like this have been posted over the last 12 years.

Thanks!

[EnderD_503]

Originally Posted by Medusa

Hey Nerds,

I know you meant this to be funny and posted it in the humor section. I think you will find many people aren't amused by humor like this that often takes "man" out of the joke and inserts "Butch" or "Transguy" because it often creates this ugly thing where the Butch/Femme dynamic is just a dressing sheet that is thrown over a hetero relationship.

It can feel negating to the actual lived experiences of many of us here and can also feel as if het relationships are being heralded as the "real" relationships while Queer relationships are just cheap knock-offs.

I think you are new to the community so I hope this explanation helps you understand why people are reacting with irritation. Also keep in mind, many "jokes" like this have been posted over the last 12 years.

Thanks!

Hey Medusa, hope you don't mind me adding/giving my input on this, but how about the notion that all heterosexuals (both men and women)/heterosexual relationships are the same? If Nerd's post implies that "man" is replaced by "butch" or "woman" by "femme," then isn't also implying that all heterosexual men and women are carbon copies of one another? I think we should see all people, whether heterosexual, homosexual, bisexual, African, European, Asian, butch, femme, trans, none of the above, purple pokadotted elephant etc. as individuals. No one group is a carbon copy of any other particular member of that group. We should know/realise this being a part of a community that claims to be as diverse as ours.

If we look at the larger picture, we're just creating more fences between people, in general. To what end?

[The_Lady_Snow]

Originally Posted by EnderD_503

Hey Medusa, hope you don't mind me adding/giving my input on this, but how about the notion that all heterosexuals (both men and women)/heterosexual relationships are the same? If Nerd's post implies that "man" is replaced by "butch" or "woman" by "femme," then isn't also implying that all heterosexual men and women are carbon copies of one another? I think we should see all people, whether heterosexual, homosexual, bisexual, African, European, Asian, butch, femme, trans, none of the above, purple pokadotted elephant etc. as individuals. No one group is a carbon copy of any other particular member of that group. We should know/realise this being a part of a community that claims to be as diverse as ours.

If we look at the larger picture, we're just creating more fences between people, in general. To what end?

Um Nerd's post is am implication that Butch and Femme are a heteronormative carbon copy and we should be ok with someone making ha ha jokes about sexism towards femme's?

Cause that is what those jokes are sayin' and doing

Now I don't know about you but I do not like that kind of message shoved down my throat via comedy.

[Medusa]

Originally Posted by EnderD_503

Hey Medusa, hope you don't mind me adding/giving my input on this, but how about the notion that all heterosexuals (both men and women)/heterosexual relationships are the same? If Nerd's post implies that "man" is replaced by "butch" or "woman" by "femme," then isn't also implying that all heterosexual men and women are carbon copies of one another? I think we should see all people, whether heterosexual, homosexual, bisexual, African, European, Asian, butch, femme, trans, none of the above, purple pokadotted elephant etc. as individuals. No one group is a carbon copy of any other particular member of that group. We should know/realise this being a part of a community that claims to be as diverse as ours.

If we look at the larger picture, we're just creating more fences between people, in general. To what end?

Actually, for me, I think that het relationships are "normalized" through the media and most of our political, religious, and social systems. I think that we can internally "know" that the paper dolls that the media and systems of power provide to us aren't fair and real but I do personally recognize the validity of the existence of "het norm".

It is important to me in this community that we do rail against "othering". My response above was an attempt to do that

[EnderD_503]

Originally Posted by The_Lady_Snow

Um Nerd's post is am implication that Butch and Femme are a heteronormative carbon copy and we should be ok with someone making ha ha jokes about sexism towards femme's?

Cause that is what those jokes are sayin' and doing

Now I don't know about you but I do not like that kind of message shoved down my throat via comedy.

That's not at all what I was saying in my post... I was actually attempting to expand on the notion of heteronormativity itself. Nevermind.

[EnderD_503]

Originally Posted by Medusa

Actually, for me, I think that het relationships are "normalized" through the media and most of our political, religious, and social systems. I think that we can internally "know" that the paper dolls that the media and systems of power provide to us aren't fair and real but I do personally recognize the validity of the existence of "het norm".

It is important to me in this community that we do rail against "othering". My response above was an attempt to do that

I recognise that the media and religion, in particular, attempt to do this, however, what I'm saying is that I don't think that it is indicative of the situation as it is. At least not in my experience. Stuffing heterosexuals into one box simply because of what the media/religion tries to do just doesn't sit well with me. While there once was a heterosexual norm, I'm not convinced that this is the case today.

Also, I thought I'd add that referring to heterosexuals as a collective in a way, imo, promotes boxing heterosexuals into one specific box. It doesn't recognise "them" as individuals. Again, just my take on it.

[Ebon]

Originally Posted by Nerds

ok so I have come across a set of rules of the Femmes out there but no rules for the Butches. So me and a friend were going to make a list of rules for the Butches - but we need some suggestions. To give you an idea - here is the list of Femme Rules:

The Femme Rules


1. The Femme always makes THE RULES.

2. THE RULES are subject to change without notice.

3. No butch can possibly know all THE RULES.

4. If the Femme suspects the Butch knows all THE RULES, she must immediately change some of THE RULES.

5. The Femme is never wrong.

6. If it appears the Femme is wrong, it is because of a flagrant misunderstanding caused by something the Butch did or said.

7. If Rule 6 applies, the Butch must apologize immediately for causing the misunderstanding.

8. The Femme can change her mind at any time without notice.

9. The Butch must never change her mind without the express written consent of The Femme.

10. The Femme has every right to be angry or upset at any time.

11. The Butch must remain calm at all times, unless the Femme wants her to be angry or upset.

12. The Femme must not, under any circumstances, let the Butch know whether she wants her to be angry or upset.

13. The Butch is expected to read the mind of the Femme at all times and act or respond accordingly.

14. What is important is what the Femme meant, not what she said.

15. If the Butch doesn't abide by THE RULES, it is because she can't take the heat, lacks backbone, and is a wimp.

16. If the Femme has PMS, all THE RULES are null and void and the Butch must cater to her every whim.

17. Any attempt to document THE RULES could result in bodily harm.

18. If the Butch, at any time, believes she is right, she must refer to Rule 5.

19. The Butch must kill all bugs at any given time.

20. The Butch must "always be prepared"...





we have 4 rules so far:

1. Make the Femme believe it is her idea

2. just grin and nod

3 if the Femme changes the rules - refer to rule number 2

4 no Butch likes to know all the rules we like the element of surprise



I am sure you all have some good suggestions...

I've said some shit in my day but you are a brave soul.

[Gemme]

I guess this means that masculine and male identified butches and Transguys are exempt, huh?
Just when I had my butch just where I wanted him, a loop hole....

[BullDog]

Originally Posted by EnderD_503

I recognise that the media and religion, in particular, attempt to do this, however, what I'm saying is that I don't think that it is indicative of the situation as it is. At least not in my experience. Stuffing heterosexuals into one box simply because of what the media/religion tries to do just doesn't sit well with me. While there once was a heterosexual norm, I'm not convinced that this is the case today.

Also, I thought I'd add that referring to heterosexuals as a collective in a way, imo, promotes boxing heterosexuals into one specific box. It doesn't recognise "them" as individuals. Again, just my take on it.

Heteronormative standards exist on institutional and structural levels and are the basis used to value heterosexual relationships (the only type of relationships society really recognizes in any sort of "official" way). It also helps to reinforce sexism in many ways. Recognizing that we don't follow heteronormative standards in our community doesn't mean we think all heterosexuals are the same or that all heterosexuals follow heteronormativity to a tee or that they are all bad people.

Nerds, welcome to the site.

I don't agree with the humor either but the person registered in August 2010. Can we cut her some slack and still discuss the topic at the same time?

[Corkey]

So far I think we've all been rather subdued and accommodating in educating a new member... so what exactly is the topic now?

[BullDog]

I don't understand your question Corkey.

[betenoire]

Originally Posted by EnderD_503

Also, I thought I'd add that referring to heterosexuals as a collective in a way, imo, promotes boxing heterosexuals into one specific box. It doesn't recognise "them" as individuals. Again, just my take on it.

Ender, I don't think for one moment that any of the people who objected to the OP didn't also recognize that it is bullshit and sexist when in the jokes original incarnation (that original incarnation being about straight women.)

I am not so stupid that I don't understand that both of the below jokes are equally appalling:

Why can't Femmes drive?
Because there's no road between the kitchen and the bedroom

Why can't Women drive?
Because there's no road between the kitchen and the bedroom

Both of those jokes are equally irritating to me, and I would personally drop down dead from shock if any of the other posters on this thread didn't ALSO find both jokes -equally- irritating.

[Corkey]

Originally Posted by BullDog

I don't understand your question Corkey.

Well first the topic was a joke that isn't and now you say there is a topic, I'd like to know just what the topic is please since you seem to know there is a topic. Now do you understand? ugh.