It's Time to Boycott Arizona

[dreadgeek]

Originally Posted by QueenofSmirks

I find it offensive that it is implied that anyone who lives here (in Arizona) or stands up for it is somehow a part of "this racist state".

The entire state is not racist; I don't even agree that the majority of people who live here are racist. I, do, however, believe that our political system is fucked up and people get elected for ALL KINDS of reasons, not necessarily because they are popular or right or hold a majority opinion. The same goes for laws written by these people. I lived in Colorado when Amendment 2 passed - the first anti-gay legislation to ever get on a ballot. I didn't hate or blame the entire state of Colorado. The wording on the ballot was confusing; the conservative right banded together and got everyone in a frenzy - so it passed.

I don't believe in boycotting the entire state of Arizona, I didn't believe in it before I moved here either. I do believe in fighting the problems, instead of "throwing out the baby with the bath water" so to speak.

The very same thing could be said about, say, the states south of the Mason-Dixon line prior to the end of Jim Crow. Not *everyone* in the state supported those laws--the 30 - 50 percent of those states that were black, for instance, largely did not support segregation laws targeting them. Not all of the whites in those states supported those laws. NEITHER of that actually matters all that much on a day-to-day basis. Precisely how much good does it do to know that not all people in the state support SB 1070 if one is legally driving down the street, gets pulled over for a broken tail light and is then asked for their birth certificate and, when it turns out one is not in possession of it, one is detained? In that moment, as you are put into the police car, how much do you think it matters to know that not everyone supports the law? The law is in force, you are feeling the full effect of the law, do you think it helps to know that your neighbor doesn't support it?

Cheers
Aj

[QueenofSmirks]

Originally Posted by dreadgeek

... The law is in force, you are feeling the full effect of the law, do you think it helps to know that your neighbor doesn't support it?

Cheers
Aj

No, I don't think it helps to know my neighbor doesn't support it. But I wasn't talking about that. I was talking about the assumption by some that somehow we (AZ residents) should claim the hatred and discrimination in this state just because we live here. I don't think that helps either.

[Nat]

Originally Posted by QueenofSmirks

No, I don't think it helps to know my neighbor doesn't support it. But I wasn't talking about that. I was talking about the assumption by some that somehow we (AZ residents) should claim the hatred and discrimination in this state just because we live here. I don't think that helps either.

Somebody said you should *claim* hatred and discrimination in your state? I don't understand.

[The_Lady_Snow]

Originally Posted by QueenofSmirks

No, I don't think it helps to know my neighbor doesn't support it. But I wasn't talking about that. I was talking about the assumption by some that somehow we (AZ residents) should claim the hatred and discrimination in this state just because we live here. I don't think that helps either.

Denying that it IS happening around is claiming it. How can you NOT know what is happening in a State that wanted to enforce racial profiling.

How does one not take a stand?? Does privilege allow this?

I am confused how one can not care or is it the "eh, it's not me they are targeting so.. Whatever"

[QueenofSmirks]

Originally Posted by The_Lady_Snow

Denying that it IS happening around is claiming it. How can you NOT know what is happening in a State that wanted to enforce racial profiling.

How does one not take a stand?? Does privilege allow this?

I am confused how one can not care or is it the "eh, it's not me they are targeting so.. Whatever"

Well, I don't know who your comments are referring to... it certainly isn't me! And since none of what you said describes me, I really can't answer.

[The_Lady_Snow]

I'm going to bed totes!

[Nat]

New law jeopardizes ethnic studies classes

A month from now, a new law will jeopardize ethnic studies within the Tucson Unified School District. Sunday, one group that calls itself neutral is calling for a review of these classes.

Attorney General Elect Tom Horne, spent the latter part of his career as the Arizona schools chief taking aim at TUSD Mexican-American studies.

Then came the passage of a law banning the courses based off the idea they promote racism. Now a group called Tucsonans United for a Sound District wants the classes reviewed by an independent panel.

[Nat]

Originally Posted by QueenofSmirks

I was talking about the assumption by some that somehow we (AZ residents) should claim the hatred and discrimination in this state just because we live here. I don't think that helps either.

Hi again.

This sentence doesn't make a lot of sense to me because I don't know what you mean by the word, "claim." Without further information, Snowy's interpretation was the closest to how I read your words too - which is why I asked for clarification.

Perhaps you could pick the sentence below that is most similar to your meaning - or clarify in your own words? I would really appreciate it.

A. Some people think Arizona residents should embrace hatred and discrimination just because they live in Arizona, and I disagree.

B. Some people think Arizona residents should acknowledge that hatred and discrimination exist in Arizona, and I don't think Arizona residents should be expected to do so.

C. Some people think Arizona residents should stop denying that hatred and discrimination exist in Arizona, but I disagree.

D. Some people think all Arizona residents are in support of racism and discrimination, and that's not true.

E. _____________________________________

[DomnNC]

I could be wrong but my interpretation of what QoS is saying is:

That a lot of people are assuming that ALL people that live in Arizona surely must be haters, discriminators and in favor of the racial profiling when that's not true. She doesn't believe just because she lives there that she should take on the responsibility of blame in how other people who live there choose to believe and what they are in favor of.

She's saying she's not in favor of it.

I could be totally wrong, lol, wouldn't be the first time.

[Nat]

Originally Posted by DomnNC

I could be wrong but my interpretation of what QoS is saying is:

That a lot of people are assuming that ALL people that live in Arizona surely must be haters, discriminators and in favor of the racial profiling when that's not true. She doesn't believe just because she lives there that she should take on the responsibility of blame in how other people who live there choose to believe and what they are in favor of.

She's saying she's not in favor of it.

I could be totally wrong, lol, wouldn't be the first time.

If that's what she's saying, I don't know where she's getting that from. Did somebody in this thread say ALL people that live in Arizona surely must be haters?

[DomnNC]

Laughs, too late for me ... perhaps I should have said that some believe ALL Arizona residents (regardless if that is how you believe/support or not) should assume the responsibility of blame for the haters, discriminators and racial profiling. She's not responsible for the blame of say her neighbor if he's a hater, discriminator or in favor of racial profiling just because she lives there as well. She's not one of them (just because she lives there) nor will she carry the burden of blame for their beliefs/actions.

Sorry, I even reread that last one.

[katsarecool]

And some people just do not watch the news or keep up with current events either. So it is entirely possible to not have a clue about what is happening in AZ. I do not fault anyone for not keeping up with the news. They have their own reasons. One of my children cannot bear to watch the news and does not keep up on current events. She says the news triggers some fears inside from childhood; all the sad and tragic news. This does not mean that she does not care about people who are hurt and harmed at all though because she does. She has a lot on her own plate with a large family (three teenage girls, two sons one with special needs), job situations for her and her husband along with financial woes as well. I get that. Not happy about it but it is her choice.

[dreadgeek]

Originally Posted by DomnNC

Laughs, too late for me ... perhaps I should have said that some believe ALL Arizona residents (regardless if that is how you believe/support or not) should assume the responsibility of blame for the haters, discriminators and racial profiling. She's not responsible for the blame of say her neighbor if he's a hater, discriminator or in favor of racial profiling just because she lives there as well. She's not one of them (just because she lives there) nor will she carry the burden of blame for their beliefs/actions.

Sorry, I even reread that last one.

I'm curious, at what point are bystanders complicit? Is there any point? Or is it the case that provided that you never pull the trigger yourself, even if you just stand by and watch it repeatedly, you're still not in the least bit complicit?

Cheers
Aj

[betenoire]

Originally Posted by Nat

If that's what she's saying, I don't know where she's getting that from. Did somebody in this thread say ALL people that live in Arizona surely must be haters?

No, nobody in the thread said that.

However - the majority of the people that live in Arizona must be. The evidence of this is easy enough to find, that awful Brewer woman got elected this November (evidence 1) and public opinion polls show that the majority of Arizona residents are in favour of her shitty bill (evidence 2).

So while OBVIOUSLY the people responding to this thread DO GET that not every single person who lives in AZ is a racist douchebag - the fact remains that THE STATE of Arizona (the State being Arizona's politicians, policies, police force, people in charge and popular vote) IS indeed racist. That is the name that Arizona has made for itself.

It's like when I say "America is a bully". I obviously don't think that Nat, Aj, Snow, or my American spouse are bullies - but I DO think that America (her military reach, her foreign policy, her talking heads, her most vocal voters) IS a bully. That is the place that she's carved out for herself in the world.

[QueenofSmirks]

Originally Posted by betenoire

No, nobody in the thread said that.

However - the majority of the people that live in Arizona must be. The evidence of this is easy enough to find, that awful Brewer woman got elected this November (evidence 1) and public opinion polls show that the majority of Arizona residents are in favour of her shitty bill (evidence 2).

Actually, that only proves that the majority of people who VOTED are in favor of her and her b.s. And opinion polls -- please. They only accurately reflect the people who ANSWER them, not the population as a whole.

[QueenofSmirks]

Originally Posted by DomnNC

I could be wrong but my interpretation of what QoS is saying is:

That a lot of people are assuming that ALL people that live in Arizona surely must be haters, discriminators and in favor of the racial profiling when that's not true. She doesn't believe just because she lives there that she should take on the responsibility of blame in how other people who live there choose to believe and what they are in favor of.

She's saying she's not in favor of it.

I could be totally wrong, lol, wouldn't be the first time.

Thank you, your interpretation is spot on! (Both of them! LOL)

Not only are we assumed to be haters, but we are also apparently to blame because we choose to live here, and how dare we be a part of this hatred while living a life of luxury, ignoring what's going on around us and basically just being all around despicable human beings, we should be ashamed of ourselves. Apparently because I'm not in favor of a boycott, (because I believe it will do more harm overall, not because I would somehow be negatively affected by it), that makes me one of "them".
Weird.

[dreadgeek]

Originally Posted by QueenofSmirks

No, I don't think it helps to know my neighbor doesn't support it. But I wasn't talking about that. I was talking about the assumption by some that somehow we (AZ residents) should claim the hatred and discrimination in this state just because we live here. I don't think that helps either.

QoS:

I'm not sure why you think that anyone is saying that you should claim the hatred or discrimination just because of your locale. I DO think that it is incumbent upon people in Arizona to be aware of what is happening (but that is because I think it's incumbent upon all citizens to be aware of what is happening) but that is quite a far cry from saying you should claim that hatred.

It seems to me that the AZ residents are taking some of this overly personal. No one is saying that you or Cody are personally in favor of this law--unless and until you give us reason to believe that you are. The people who wrote this law are responsible. The people who voted for Ms. Brewer or any other politician who supports it are responsible. Anyone who didn't vote is responsible. However, I think that we Americans are too quick--far too quick--to try to get out from under our responsibilities. As Chris Hedges, a former reporter for the NY Times, points out in his latest book "The Death of the Liberal Class" between 2000 and 2004 Americans could be forgiven for the wrong-doing of the Bush administration but once the 2004 election happened and he was re-elected (and clearly he was) we the American people endorsed his policies. Does that mean that every single American did? No, but it doesn't have to for us--as Americans--to be responsible for what was done in our name.

As far as the boycott is concerned I think it is appropriate to the degree that it is possible (for example, our dog requires a special diet and the one place we can get the wet food that doesn't make him break out is available at Petsmart--so we don't really have any choice in the matter). That doesn't mean that you should join a boycott (and it would be impractical for you to do so since you live in Arizona) but a boycott may be effective. It may not hurt your governor but it WILL hurt her well-heeled sponsors and puppet-masters who own hotels, restaurants, gas stations, etc. Eventually, they will put the pressure on her to repeal the law if they feel sufficient economic pain.

I think the most effective move, however, is for Hispanics to leave the state. If the majority of Arizonans don't want them there (and a majority of voting Arizonans have given either their explicit or tacit approval to SB 1070) then they should leave. There is historical precedent for this. Google "The Great Migration" or, better yet, get hold of the book 'The Warmth of Other Suns: The Epic Story of America's Great Migration' by Isabel Wilkerson. I suggest this because, what a lot of (white) Americans don't know is that in the middle third of the last century blacks left the Deep South in a flood. This actually had a number of effects on the culture and economy of the South which, in turn, led to the southern states progressing on racial issues. My parents left the South at the very tail end (1968) because they didn't want their kids raised in a part of the country where we would be considered only marginally human. I think it would, in fact, serve Arizona right if in 5 years finding a Hispanic resident in that state was like finding an unicorn.

Again, let me make it clear that I’m *not* saying you or Cody or any other Arizona resident here wants Hispanics out of the state. I am saying that if Hispanics are not welcome, it would behoove them to leave and to do so sooner rather than later.

Cheers
Aj