Lawsuit asks state to pay for inmate's sex-change operation- What do you think?

[Luckydwg07]

I understand the arguement. I think she is lucky to get continuing hormone treatments.(If to continue or not continue hormone treatments is seen as a life threating possibility thats understood.)
She is incarcerated for a reason- I say 3 hots & a cot. we have people on the outside that need tax money for just getting 1 or 2 hots a day and a shelter bed to rest on for a minimal amount of time and that includes children. When you break laws(murder- not respecting someone else right to life) don't ask for handouts from the govt to make you as you see yourself thats up to the individual. Normal citizen rights & to act freely are revoked when they are a prisoner-thats the whole idea.
Sorry but its just not All About Her.
Should be interesting to see what the ruling is

[AtLast]

Originally Posted by Luckydwg07

I understand the arguement. I think she is lucky to get continuing hormone treatments.(If to continue or not continue hormone treatments is seen as a life threating possibility thats understood.)
She is incarcerated for a reason- I say 3 hots & a cot. we have people on the outside that need tax money for just getting 1 or 2 hots a day and a shelter bed to rest on for a minimal amount of time and that includes children. When you break laws(murder- not respecting someone else right to life) don't ask for handouts from the govt to make you as you see yourself thats up to the individual. Normal citizen rights & to act freely are revoked when they are a prisoner-thats the whole idea.
Sorry but its just not All About Her.
Should be interesting to see what the ruling is

It will be interesting. California is in a major financial mess as many states are. Education is facing further cuts as well as all social services. This on top of what the federal cut backs will be.

[Luckydwg07]

Originally Posted by AtLastHome

It will be interesting. California is in a major financial mess as many states are. Education is facing further cuts as well as all social services. This on top of what the federal cut backs will be.

It keeps the lawyers in a job we aren't as affluent as we once were when that happens most of the time everyone is heard because the world is listening. but not so much any more

[Blade]

All I can say is if tax dollars are going to be used for prisoners in this manner, the someone needs to start paying for my surgeries, someone being tax dollars.

[Starbuck]

Two quick responses:
Tax dollars to pay for the sex change? No, prisoners should not have this right.
Should prisoners receive medication? Yes, they are human beings too.

[AtLast]

Originally Posted by Luckydwg07

It keeps the lawyers in a job we aren't as affluent as we once were when that happens most of the time everyone is heard because the world is listening. but not so much any more

Yes, my mind has been wondering to lawyers!

Something else I thought of that is kind of icky is that what if trans organizations that I have always felt good about and believe do a lot to fight transphobia, etc. take the stand that trans inmates should have srs paid for by the state?

My concern is about how this could play into the hands of all of the right wing taxation organizations and really be used to further promote transphobia. Some would love to use this like they did with Tranny-Care and Obama's health care reform efforts. I don't want to be associated with things like that, yet I can't back this.

Although, from a lot of the posts by trans folks here that are transitioning on their own dime, maybe this won't happen. LOL, sometimes things get pretty goofy in CA. I love my home state, but I'd rather see any public money going toward social and medical services that support transgendered people outside of the correctional system. We do have some public programs here, but they are being hit due to our very large deficit- like all social service programs.

As far as rehabilitative programs in our correctional system, I have always felt that we would be better off in the long run focusing on juvenile populations before they enter the adult system- more of a preventative focus.

Keeping my eye out for news on this here in CA. If anyone else has links/info- please post it.

[Luckydwg07]

Originally Posted by AtLastHome

Yes, my mind has been wondering to lawyers!

Something else I thought of that is kind of icky is that what if trans organizations that I have always felt good about and believe do a lot to fight transphobia, etc. take the stand that trans inmates should have srs paid for by the state?

My concern is about how this could play into the hands of all of the right wing taxation organizations and really be used to further promote transphobia. Some would love to use this like they did with Tranny-Care and Obama's health care reform efforts. I don't want to be associated with things like that, yet I can't back this.

Although, from a lot of the posts by trans folks here that are transitioning on their own dime, maybe this won't happen. LOL, sometimes things get pretty goofy in CA. I love my home state, but I'd rather see any public money going toward social and medical services that support transgendered people outside of the correctional system. We do have some public programs here, but they are being hit due to our very large deficit- like all social service programs.

As far as rehabilitative programs in our correctional system, I have always felt that we would be better off in the long run focusing on juvenile populations before they enter the adult system- more of a preventative focus.

Keeping my eye out for news on this here in CA. If anyone else has links/info- please post it.

Our community will never get a 100% A-OKAY from any part of society.
I appreciate you sentiment Atlast ...however it's a runaway train this system & I wouldn't call it corrections not by a long shot. I just think that we are too indulgent on thinking we are superior beings and the thought of rogue humans as part of our spieces starts a philisophical dialogue that has lasted since the human race has exsisted. what do we do with the ugly side of humanity? It still has a human face and familiar wants and needs (good & bad) as the rest of us ..it just went astray?
I agree you can tap into the young offenders at a higher % ( yes were are all numbers :-)

Bottom line there is no bottom the discussion will continue. this it a three ring circus headline grabber and does nothing for our community or the human race.

[tantalizingfemme]

To answer the question of the OP, no, a sex change (in my opinion) is beyond the scope of what any DOC facility is expected to provide for an inmate.

Secondly, who would want a state funded physician/surgeon to provide said surgery? Think that an inmate is going to to have a say as to whom the doctor/surgeon will be who will perform this specialized surgery? Imagine the recovery period in a prison infirmary.... The system is not going to pay for doctor so and so in California who specializes in blah blah blah and then let the inmate stay for a period of recovery..... come on....

I worked as a transitional case manager for HIV Positive/AIDs-Defined inmates (male and female) getting ready to move back in to the community. The medical offices in the prisons covered all necessary medical needs to ensure the inmates health.....a lot of money in medications and doctors visits in and outside of the prison... however, anything beyond.... no.

Rape happens in both men's and women's prisons, it does not discriminate. If necessary, the inmate can be placed in solitary confinement for their own safety.

I recall having a conversation with a guard at a male prison who stated that they have had/have inmates with male genitalia and breasts. The inmate cannot be sent to the women's prison, but they have to watch for the safety of the inmate in the men's prison so that inmate doesn't get harrassed, abused, raped, etc... so they put the person in solitary for their own safety.

Appropriate? Not necessarily. Safe for the inmate? Absolutely.

It does not matter what "type" of crime was committed or the amount of prison time a person received; anything beyond basic needs for health care is just that... beyond the prison health care system.

TF

[GinaSofia]

Daywalker:
I tried to quote your post but couldn't.. Prolly cause I'm reading
And texting from my phone. While it took forever to read your amazing story from my slow-ass cell, I just could not stop reading.
Thank you so much for sharing this with us.

[Martina]

There is no reason to juxtapose the needs of inmates to those of homeless people. We should be helping both populations. The issue behind this is that inmates should not have to fear rape in prison. If that weren't the case, if the government were doing their jobs, the person would not need surgery at the expense of the state. But the fact is that it is dangerous for trans folks to be in prison. And isolating them is blaming the victim. i vote for whatever keeps people the safest.

i also think it's not a bad precedent to set, the state paying for surgery. In fact, all such surgeries ought to be paid for by insurance or public insurance, if necessary. No one should go without any kind of health care because they can't afford it.

The argument that people can't get it free outside of prison is accepting a reality that is really unacceptable. Everyone who needs srs should get it.

[tantalizingfemme]

[QUOTE=Martina;324805] The issue behind this is that inmates should not have to fear rape in prison. [QUOTE]


So, the answer is sex change surgery??? What about those who aren't trans? No resolution for them? It's okay for them to get raped? Maybe the answer is to find a solution for ALL inmates... not one particular population.

[Luckydwg07]

Originally Posted by Martina

There is no reason to juxtapose the needs of inmates to those of homeless people. We should be helping both populations. The issue behind this is that inmates should not have to fear rape in prison. If that weren't the case, if the government were doing their jobs, the person would not need surgery at the expense of the state. But the fact is that it is dangerous for trans folks to be in prison. And isolating them is blaming the victim. i vote for whatever keeps people the safest.

i also think it's not a bad precedent to set, the state paying for surgery. In fact, all such surgeries ought to be paid for by insurance or public insurance, if necessary. No one should go without any kind of health care because they can't afford it.

The argument that people can't get it free outside of prison is accepting a reality that is really unacceptable. Everyone who needs srs should get it.

Actually one can juxtapose immate needs with needs of the homeless.(alot of homeless are that way by no fault of thier own) the money is from the same pie. I just would rather see a law abiding citizen be up one more rung on the social ladder thats all.
Rape isn't just in jails- it plaugues us all

[EnderD_503]

Originally Posted by Martina

There is no reason to juxtapose the needs of inmates to those of homeless people. We should be helping both populations. The issue behind this is that inmates should not have to fear rape in prison. If that weren't the case, if the government were doing their jobs, the person would not need surgery at the expense of the state. But the fact is that it is dangerous for trans folks to be in prison. And isolating them is blaming the victim. i vote for whatever keeps people the safest.

i also think it's not a bad precedent to set, the state paying for surgery. In fact, all such surgeries ought to be paid for by insurance or public insurance, if necessary. No one should go without any kind of health care because they can't afford it.

The argument that people can't get it free outside of prison is accepting a reality that is really unacceptable. Everyone who needs srs should get it.

Completely late on this one, but it's something I was struggling with, but then hearing from trans people I know who were incarcerated up here I guess I just think there's a lot of things to be considered when you're talking about inmates and what is "deserved" or not. I agree largely with this post, though. I think that if you live in a province/state/nation where the government does not offer to pay for SRS under any circumstances, then the priority should not be barring one part of the trans population (in this case, prison inmates) from getting SRS just because the majority don't have access to it. I think it is about setting a precedent. If prison inmates are the first ones to get government-funded SRS, and that eventually leads to the rest of the trans community getting government-funded SRS, I don't see a problem. I don't see SRS as a cosmetic surgery or a luxury, but a surgery that is often necessary as far as the mental health of the trans person involved, no matter who they are and what they've done. Unfortunately, most governments haven't recognised that yet. I don't really believe in "because I can't have it, you can't have it" kind of deal. I don't think that solves much. Both populations need it, the way I see it.

[Nadeest]

I don't agree with the state paying for an inmate's srs surgury, however, they do pay for a lot other inmate's surguries. Why is there a difference? SRS is medically necessary even though a lot of people don't think so.
I do think that transgender women should be placed in the women's prisons, though, instead of in the men's one; and that hormone treatment should be given to them. The same thing applies to transgender men, to my mind.
Let's also remember that a lot of transgendered people end up in the underground economy primarily because people discriminate against them and often don't hire them. That obviously isn't why this person ended up in prison, however.

[Soft*Silver]

What next?? What if a prisoner says they have Body Dysmorphism Disorder (BDD) and wants to have plastic surgery because they cant go on living in the body they hate. Do we allow this? Do we allow them to get inplants and injections and so on? BDD is just as pervasive of a disorder as GID. People with BDD have cut off parts of their bodies, to rid themselves of their perceived flaws. They have starved themselves to death. They have committed suicide. In prison, I doubt we would entertain surgery as an option. Mental health counseling, yes. But not surgery.

[starryeyes]

She murdered someone....over some fucking clothes. No, I don't think her life should be made any easier. Do I agree that she should be raped and harassed?? No. But, she is there for a reason. Sorry sista... No support from me. The prison should have separate areas for sensitive cases, maybe.

[Chancie]

Originally Posted by Luckydwg07

I understand the arguement. I think she is lucky to get continuing hormone treatments.(If to continue or not continue hormone treatments is seen as a life threating possibility thats understood.)
She is incarcerated for a reason- I say 3 hots & a cot. we have people on the outside that need tax money for just getting 1 or 2 hots a day and a shelter bed to rest on for a minimal amount of time and that includes children. When you break laws(murder- not respecting someone else right to life) don't ask for handouts from the govt to make you as you see yourself thats up to the individual. Normal citizen rights & to act freely are revoked when they are a prisoner-thats the whole idea.
Sorry but its just not All About Her.
Should be interesting to see what the ruling is

I'm curious. Do you think people who are living in jail should get prescription medicine?

[Apocalipstic]

It's a difficult question.

I agree that many prisoners do in effect have better health care coverage than many working people not in prison, which I agree seems very unfair.

I think it depends on how the courts see being Transgender and if not paying for sex reassigment surgery is seen as cruel and usual....

I really don't know where I fall on the subject, but for me a murder change would be very different than a 3 strikes drug or burglary charge....but you can't provide medical care based on whar crime was committed?

Slippery slope.
Either way.

[Gemme]

I didn't even finish the article. I got to the section that describes how she arrived into the pen. 'nuff said for me.

Does she really think that having the surgery and being moved to a woman's prison means she won't be raped? REALLY? It just means it will be with a pipe or fist instead of a penis.

I say no. I know of many, many folks here who bust their asses to make it through life towing the line and they don't commit stupid ass crimes over CLOTHES, for Christ's sake! They pay for the surgeries that are to correct nature's mistakes on their own or at least using their own energy (if they receive donations, etc). My partner and I are trying to design 1, 3, 5, and 10 year plans so that he can have the necessary surgeries that this woman wants.

So what message would this send out? If you are trans and you still need surgery, go commit a crime in CA and they'll pay for it. Nice.

This really and truly pisses me off to my very core.

[Daywalker]

Most folks are pretty skeptical about our Rehabilition methods,
or lack thereof...within the walls of our Prison systems.

And with good damn reason. There have been folks who have paid
for their debt to society, although I doubt their victims would agree.

With that said, would we still deny this request if they had robbed a bank,
or ran a finincial scheme on a childrens charity, or drunk drove themselves
behind bars? I think it is interesting how the perspective changes according
to the crime commited. Frankly, if we're gonna feed Death Row Inmates
for 20+ years, why would this expense be deemed as unacceptable?

Thinking Out Loud.

The Inmate commited a heinous crime; who is going to weigh
the crime and punishment on a scale and draw the lines?