Changing last names

[Martina]

Originally Posted by Miss Tick

I am talking about the 70s not the 40s or 50s so that might make a difference.

I doubt it. I think it's all true, what I am saying AND what you are. I think a lot of those femmes had a lot more power than it may have looked like from the outside, as did some straight women. There was not much social reinforcement of the power of butch women in their relationships. And no economic or state. I definitely saw women adopt roles in their relationships. Of course they did. But it was different from heterosexual relationships, and their understanding of it was very different from what we imagine it was like.

Yes, gender roles were a given, and some folks were pretty entrenched in them. Probably some of those relationships were made miserable because of that. And some worked well. But I think that folks worked out all kinds of variations on a theme. Straight people did too, but lesbians had less social pressure on them and therefore more freedom to do what worked for them.

And it looked way different to me. So much emphasis on making the femme happy. And not just from stone butches. And not just in the courting phase. That was kind of the center of the connection, not the butch's masculinity or the femme's femininity. Yeah, people grooved on that. That was the source of a lot of the heat. And of course it was part of people's personal identity. But it wasn't as defining as it is now. Nor was it defining of the dynamic. It just wasn't.

I will say that the women I knew at the time were older. Older folks in long-term relationships work things out and mellow. Plus times were already changing.

What I was reacting to was the statement that the dance was somehow first and foremost about gender roles. We emphasize some parts of these identities and interactions more than they did. They emphasized others. Pleasing the femme is still important. But if you watch some unreflective young butches now, you'd never get that. It would seem to be ALL about gender performance. It was about gender performance then too. There were codes of dress. But it WAS different. Every social construct changes over time, and if it is maintained, people later in the timeline assume what they experience was always the case. Not so.

I will add that -- not just to you -- but can you imagine how brave femmes were at the time? How incredibly brave. These were not, in general, people who were thrown out of their families for being dykey-looking. They stepped away from privilege and safety by choice. And while the old ethos was that butches "protected" their femmes, it seemed to me that in many ways, it was the other way around. Femmes patched up butches up emotionally and physically, but they also stood with them side by side and took all the social disapproval and some of the violence meted out to such couples.

And the butch and femme women I met -- mostly through politics -- were on the left, members of unions and long-time fighters for social justice. They believed in the equality of women. That had to have affected the way they lived their personal lives.

I will also add that I sure never denied the degree of violence and hatred directed toward gay people from the outside. So that part of your post puzzled me.