"Butch" and "Femme" - Truly Antiquated Terms or More Marginalization?

Arwen · 11-22-2009, 06:34 PM

This is a fascinating discussion.

For me, I use words that suit me. I always try to honor what another person wants to be called.

I think G pointed it out best about his experiences in different groups--and how that fits him depending on where he is.

Makes me think of Albert from the Birdcage when he says, "I never know where we are until I hear our name pronounced."

For really personal reasons, I have not identified as a lesbian for several years. In fact, it makes me downright uncomfortable "in house" but that is how folks know me outside of the queer community. To them (mostly straight) calling me queer or a dyke bothers them. So to them, I'm a lesbian.

I think the point that youth creates our language has legs but I also know that language changes, evolves, twists back on itself. Are good things still "phat" and "sick" or are they "swell" and "keen"?

Why do we need alternative words for Butch and Femme unless someone is uncomfortable or perhaps embarrassed by the appellation? I totally get Stud as a term but Aggressive makes me feel a bit uneasy simply because of how I use that word. And, as a few have pointed out...is it only Butch that is getting refined/redefined?

Diva · 11-22-2009, 07:08 PM

As SF has said early on, I just want to add my and say a big "Thank You" to Selly for sticking her neck out and jumping into this conversation.

I hold You way up for that, Selly, and commend You.

If I'm putting words in Your mouth here, Sel, correct me, please, but I don't think ~ as even this discussion is evolving ~ she is pointing to individuals and telling us we can't use words which are comfortable to us......perhaps this is her observation within the group of folks with whom she is most involved....or perhaps what's hip (sorry...that's a 60's word which has evolved, I beleve )in today's Youth Culture.

I used to refer to my dear, late Father as 'being set in his ways'.....I guess some of us are, too......that can be ok.

BullDog · 11-22-2009, 07:12 PM

I'm confused as well. Is this discussion in reference to Q's video? If so I didn't see anything about being antiquated. Something else in particular? The concept in general?

Just wondering, cuz I loved the video and I am not sure I am understanding this conversation.

MsMerrick · 11-22-2009, 09:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BullDog

I'm confused as well. Is this discussion in reference to Q's video? If so I didn't see anything about being antiquated. Something else in particular? The concept in general?

Just wondering, cuz I loved the video and I am not sure I am understanding this conversation.

Yes it is.

SuperFemme · 11-22-2009, 09:22 PM

I haven't watched the video.

I read "old terms" as out of date, antiquated and well, old.

I guess perception is very individualized and it was my assumption that this was a *new/different* conversation based on an individuals perception.

11-22-2009, 06:34 PM	#1
Arwen Joy Seeker How Do You Identify?: Smartly-Flavored Preferred Pronoun?: Goddess Relationship Status: Mrs. Syzygy 1/9/14 Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Joyville, NM (aka Land of Enchantment) Posts: 10,140 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 13,636 Thanked 28,107 Times in 6,411 Posts Rep Power: 21474863	This is a fascinating discussion. For me, I use words that suit me. I always try to honor what another person wants to be called. I think G pointed it out best about his experiences in different groups--and how that fits him depending on where he is. Makes me think of Albert from the Birdcage when he says, "I never know where we are until I hear our name pronounced." For really personal reasons, I have not identified as a lesbian for several years. In fact, it makes me downright uncomfortable "in house" but that is how folks know me outside of the queer community. To them (mostly straight) calling me queer or a dyke bothers them. So to them, I'm a lesbian. I think the point that youth creates our language has legs but I also know that language changes, evolves, twists back on itself. Are good things still "phat" and "sick" or are they "swell" and "keen"? Why do we need alternative words for Butch and Femme unless someone is uncomfortable or perhaps embarrassed by the appellation? I totally get Stud as a term but Aggressive makes me feel a bit uneasy simply because of how I use that word. And, as a few have pointed out...is it only Butch that is getting refined/redefined? __________________ I wrote a book, y'all! *FREE* Tarotscopes Seek Joy, y'all. Eschew hate. 9Words: A Poetry Challenge \| Do you like me?

11-22-2009, 07:08 PM	#2
Diva Timed Out How Do You Identify?: Diva Preferred Pronoun?: Diva Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Chez Diva Posts: 11,879 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 9,263 Thanked 17,175 Times in 5,239 Posts Rep Power: 0	As SF has said early on, I just want to add my and say a big "Thank You" to Selly for sticking her neck out and jumping into this conversation. I hold You way up for that, Selly, and commend You. If I'm putting words in Your mouth here, Sel, correct me, please, but I don't think ~ as even this discussion is evolving ~ she is pointing to individuals and telling us we can't use words which are comfortable to us......perhaps this is her observation within the group of folks with whom she is most involved....or perhaps what's hip (sorry...that's a 60's word which has evolved, I beleve )in today's Youth Culture. I used to refer to my dear, late Father as 'being set in his ways'.....I guess some of us are, too......that can be ok.

11-22-2009, 07:12 PM	#3
BullDog Infamous Member How Do You Identify?: Dominant Stone Butch Daddy Preferred Pronoun?: She Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: In A Healing Place Posts: 5,371 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 18,160 Thanked 22,637 Times in 4,462 Posts Rep Power: 21474857	I'm confused as well. Is this discussion in reference to Q's video? If so I didn't see anything about being antiquated. Something else in particular? The concept in general? Just wondering, cuz I loved the video and I am not sure I am understanding this conversation.

11-22-2009, 09:22 PM	#5
SuperFemme Timed Out How Do You Identify?: Permanently Banned 10/24/2010 Preferred Pronoun?: She. Relationship Status: Married (one of 18,000) Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Atascadero, CA Posts: 4,933 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 2,309 Thanked 7,108 Times in 2,327 Posts Rep Power: 0	I haven't watched the video. I read "old terms" as out of date, antiquated and well, old. I guess perception is very individualized and it was my assumption that this was a new/different conversation based on an individuals perception.