Ask a trans person!

[Esme nha Maire]

Thank you, Dapper. See, what puzzles me is that whilst I know it's certainly not the case for all MTF's to know, from a very early age, as I did, that they are female (I was somewhere in the range 4 to 5 - essentially, I can't recall ever having any sense of gender identity other than female), I get the impression that it's rarer for FTM's to have such strong gender dysphoria at such an early age, and if that is indeed the case, I cannot help but wonder why.

One would imagine that if it didn't take puberty for me to realise that something was horribly wrong (and at that age, I had no concept of sexuality, let alone homosexuality) that the same would hold true for FTMs. I take your point re the tomboy identity (funnily enough, that was kind of how I thought of myself, once I knew that word!) possibly seeming a 'nearest fit' , but as my gender dysphoria was a very strongly physical thing, the social stuff was very much secondary to me, I'm surprised if it isn't so in others, I guess.

[DapperButch]

Originally Posted by Esme nha Maire

Thank you, Dapper. See, what puzzles me is that whilst I know it's certainly not the case for all MTF's to know, from a very early age, as I did, that they are female (I was somewhere in the range 4 to 5 - essentially, I can't recall ever having any sense of gender identity other than female), I get the impression that it's rarer for FTM's to have such strong gender dysphoria at such an early age, and if that is indeed the case, I cannot help but wonder why.

One would imagine that if it didn't take puberty for me to realise that something was horribly wrong (and at that age, I had no concept of sexuality, let alone homosexuality) that the same would hold true for FTMs. I take your point re the tomboy identity (funnily enough, that was kind of how I thought of myself, once I knew that word!) possibly seeming a 'nearest fit' , but as my gender dysphoria was a very strongly physical thing, the social stuff was very much secondary to me, I'm surprised if it isn't so in others, I guess.

I appreciate your return post.

Something that popped into my head as a possibility......

Pre puberty trans girls are looking at something between there legs that don't want there, something that doesn't belong there. They see it, they feel it. There is awareness of it every day. Every time you go to the bathroom, etc.

I think having something you don't want, something you can see and feel that is causing you dysphoria is more powerful than something NOT being there is causing dysphoria.

In puberty, trans boys get breasts. Like the trans girl wants the penis off, the trans boys wants those breasts OFF, like TODAY! Something that we don't want there is more powerful than something we feel is missing.

We hear about trans girls wanting to cut off their penis. It is when trans boys are in puberty that you hear about them wanting to cut of their breasts.

Too, it isn't that uncommon for trans guys to NOT want bottom surgery. And this isn't just about thinking that the bottom surgeries available to men are not good enough (which is a real thing). It is that they just don't have dysphoria (or much dysphoria), in that area. Or they want just minimal surgical reconstruction to ease dysphoria that does no include the creation of a penis, or the closing of the vagina.

However, I never heard a trans guy say he didn't want top surgery (unless they had super small chests...and even then there is only 1-2 times that I have heard/read that).

It's very interesting.

[Esme nha Maire]

- removed in edit. I was being slow-of-thinking. Thank you Dapper, I believe you've answered my question. Hmmnn! Thank you for the insight!

[DapperButch]

Originally Posted by Esme nha Maire

- removed in edit. I was being slow-of-thinking. Thank you Dapper, I believe you've answered my question. Hmmnn! Thank you for the insight!

So, I get nuthin'?

How about others sharing about themselves...or about your experiences with others/your thinking on the differences as to when FTM/MTF, realize they are trans?

Theo? Liam? Anyone else?

A very interesting topic!

[Esme nha Maire]

Originally Posted by DapperButch

So, I get nuthin'?

How about others sharing about themselves...or about your experiences with others/your thinking on the differences as to when FTM/MTF, realize they are trans?

Theo? Liam? Anyone else?

A very interesting topic!

Aww, sorry Dapper, but I truly was being slow of thinking, and didnt realise until I'd mulled over your reponses a little longer. I am as disappointed as yourself over the lack of responses, as yet, from other FTMs. I can say that you are certainly correct re MTFs in at least my case - very much a case of "well, THAT shouldn't be there!". Never did understand one reference to "mourning" ones lost body parts post-op that I encountered via the support group I was in back then, unless it were an indication that they really should not have transitioned.

The other thing that struck me is that in your response you were talking about youngsters , and their aid being sought by their parents. This, to me, is a marvellous difference from the situation thirty-odd years ago over here, that there is a desire to seek help for the children affected rather than just a barrage of social disapproval, and a lack of belief that a child could truly know their own mind in such matters.

[DapperButch]

Originally Posted by Esme nha Maire

Aww, sorry Dapper, but I truly was being slow of thinking, and didnt realise until I'd mulled over your reponses a little longer. I am as disappointed as yourself over the lack of responses, as yet, from other FTMs. I can say that you are certainly correct re MTFs in at least my case - very much a case of "well, THAT shouldn't be there!". Never did understand one reference to "mourning" ones lost body parts post-op that I encountered via the support group I was in back then, unless it were an indication that they really should not have transitioned.

The other thing that struck me is that in your response you were talking about youngsters , and their aid being sought by their parents. This, to me, is a marvellous difference from the situation thirty-odd years ago over here, that there is a desire to seek help for the children affected rather than just a barrage of social disapproval, and a lack of belief that a child could truly know their own mind in such matters.

In terms of parents it is very different now. All the parents that have brought their kids to me were people who parents who cared about their kids because they wouldn't have brought them otherwise. But, their openness to allowing their kids to medically transition was very different. There is enough information out there that parents understand that gender dysphoria is a medical transition that CAN be treated. They see the massive shift in their kids from one day to the next when they say they are at least open to talk with an endocrinologist about hormones. THAT is what sells them. The hardest "sell" is for the very wealthy families who worry about what their social circles will say. This is where I see the parents saying their children can't socially transition until their first year of college (they don't want them to come out in high school).

Has there been any shifts in the UK over the past few years? Until now, the UK has always been more accepting of their trans folks in comparison to the U.S.

[Esme nha Maire]

Originally Posted by DapperButch

In terms of parents it is very different now. All the parents that have brought their kids to me were people who parents who cared about their kids because they wouldn't have brought them otherwise. But, their openness to allowing their kids to medically transition was very different. There is enough information out there that parents understand that gender dysphoria is a medical transition that CAN be treated. They see the massive shift in their kids from one day to the next when they say they are at least open to talk with an endocrinologist about hormones. THAT is what sells them. The hardest "sell" is for the very wealthy families who worry about what their social circles will say. This is where I see the parents saying their children can't socially transition until their first year of college (they don't want them to come out in high school).

Has there been any shifts in the UK over the past few years? Until now, the UK has always been more accepting of their trans folks in comparison to the U.S.

I'm afraid I've no idea, Dapper. Once I'd had surgery, I was simply focused on trying to get a job and try to keep my relationship going. The next several years were still nightmarish due to a bad employer that tried to force folk to work in unhealthy working conditions (distrbingly, it was the local City Council!). I didn't need support from trans support groups, wasn't getting any aftercare from the medical profession, and all my energies were just on the daily grind.

Once I'd escaped that job, about twelve years ago, I did notice that I didn't seem to be getting any overt disapproval at all from work colleagues, but I was still getting abuse from random strangers travelling to and from work. This slowly died down, and died altogether, oddly enough, when my image shifted from Steampunky femme to tomboyish two years ago. It may just be that the last of the yobbish comments I was getting was more to do with my being a tad eccentric rather than my being TS. Or else my eccentricity was drawing closer attention to my appearance than I might otherwise have got.

It was only at the beginning of this year that I looked into how things are with transfolk and the LGBT community again, and that only by going to the local lesbian friendly bar and looking at stuff online (mostly YouTube). All I can say is that I'm not personally encountering any problems in straight society, and have encountered next to none thus far in the lesbian scene - indeed, at LFestive, one individual even asked me how I identified,and on hearing I said simply 'lesbian' said 'good, I'm glad to hear you don't identify as trans anything, there's no need, you're a woman, and that's an end to it'.

So - the situation seems to be good now, but how and when and why it changed, I have no idea - I was simply in my own little bubble struggling to get through each day for so long!

[Vincent]

Originally Posted by DapperButch

So, I get nuthin'?

How about others sharing about themselves...or about your experiences with others/your thinking on the differences as to when FTM/MTF, realize they are trans?

Theo? Liam? Anyone else?

A very interesting topic!

My personal story is,I knew at 2 yrs old,I was male and I was acting out in ways,in which,my mother told my father,something was wrong with me,they took me to see a shrink,my family was blue colar working class,so we had no health insurance,and Australia had no universal health care,in 1962.

I was about 15,when I gave up, of ever being male,by this time,I was into crime and alchol and heavy drug use.

these feelings never emerged again,till I met a femme,who gave me "stone butch blues"although for me now its 11 yrs on T,and top surgery.
I would rather die than go back.

I am free now,I look like me

I know this is a year old,but I wanted to respond to both esme and dapper

cheers