2020 Presidential Election

[cathexis]

Originally Posted by dark_crystal

NBC News: Inside Bernie-world's war on Beto O'Rourke, By Jonathan Allen and Alex Seitz-Wald

WASHINGTON — Forces loyal to Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders are waging an increasingly public war against Texas Rep. Beto O'Rourke, the new darling of Democratic activists, as the two men weigh whether to seek the party's presidential nomination in 2020.

The main line of attack against O'Rourke is that he isn't progressive enough — that he's been too close to Republicans in Congress, too close to corporate donors and not willing enough to use his star power to help fellow Democrats — and it is being pushed almost exclusively by Sanders supporters online and in print.

It's been the first flashpoint in what promises to be a politically bloody primary.

[snip]

O'Rourke's ability to connect with younger and progressive white voters — Sanders' source of strength in his losing 2016 primary against Hillary Clinton — puts him in direct competition with the Vermont senator.

[snip]

Sanders supporters insist there's nothing coordinated about the attacks on O'Rourke and note Sanders himself and his top allies have said nothing about O'Rourke. Sanders' is an unusually decentralized political world, with a loose collection of activists and operatives who often take actions without direction or approval from any central authority. But they acknowledge that there's increasing public examination of his record.

It started with David Sirota, a liberal activist and journalist who worked for Sanders many years ago. In a long tweetstorm, Sirota noted that O'Rourke had received more donations from the oil and gas industry than any candidate in the 2018 cycle other than Cruz.

NOPE NOPE NOPE NOPE

My fear of this type of thing right here is where i started this thread. Sanders has my primary vote this time same as last time, but we do not need to attack the cuddly skater boy. Beto already has all the rope he is going to need to hang himself, in his voluntary association with the establishment wing of the party, and Sanders supporters have a bad reputation.

I personally believe that bad reputation is an artifact of Russian interference, but i think the best thing for the candidate would be if everyone takes the extreme high road until after Iowa at least.

Newsweek: BIDEN DOESN'T WANT TO HEAR MILLENNIALS COMPLAIN: 'GIVE ME A BREAK,'
BY SUMMER MEZA

Millennials who think that times are tough in 2018 have no room to complain, according to former Vice President Joe Biden, who said that he had “no empathy” for young people who compared today to the struggles of the 1960s.

“The younger generation now tells me how tough things are—give me a break,” said Biden, while speaking to Patt Morrison of the Los Angeles Times to promote his new book. “No, no, I have no empathy for it, give me a break.”

Biden compared the complaints of millennials to what he experienced growing up in the 1960s and '70s, mentioning the civil rights and women’s liberation movements that were gaining traction simultaneously with the Vietnam War, making the United States a troubling place for young activists at the time.

NOPE NOPE NOPE NOPE. That is the oldest tiredest baby boomer shit i have ever heard and i have now changed my mind about Uncle Joe and i don't care how sweet he was on Colbert.

Biden is correct. Those of us who were actually fighting the battles of those 60s-70s that are so readily dismissed know how rough it was. What I am reading is an attempt to smooth the creases by using terms like "civil rights," "women's liberation," and "Vietnam War." Tell it like it was, race wars where activists were getting killed often for merely registering voters, the fight to legalize abortion and Equal Rights Amendment where women and lgbtq were being assaulted on a regular basis, and the Anti-War Movement where you had thousands of people in the streets protesting a conflict, we had no business involved in, that had the daily deaths tallied by Walter Cronkite each night at 6. Young men were having to escape the country to stay safe or even alive. The draft, where a simple paper burning could get a man beat up or worse.

Today's struggles don't even hold a match, let alone a candle, to what was happening during that period. It was not the romantic time of purple haze and flower children that some remember, the times were really tough.

[C0LLETTE]

Bravo Cathexis!
I am so tired of people thinking that they are fighting a battle from Square One and ignoring the blood, courage, determination, and , frankly, remarkably intelligent genius that came before.

Bring on your inspiring leaders, those who can lead us into the future with great ideas. Till then admire with great gratitude those who could do that and did.

[dark_crystal]

Originally Posted by C0LLETTE

Bravo Cathexis!
I am so tired of people thinking that they are fighting a battle from Square One and ignoring the blood, courage, determination, and , frankly, remarkably intelligent genius that came before.

Bring on your inspiring leaders, those who can lead us into the future with great ideas. Till then admire with great gratitude those who could do that and did.

We’re not going to get anywhere by telling half the population that their experience means nothing bc they missed the Summer of Love. Nobody under age 60 was old enough to participate in “the real struggle.” Scoffing at people who had the audacity to be born in the 70s does not drive turnout. Or are we thinking we can beat Trump without the 18-34 (or 48! I’m 48 and y’all are going all “you damn kids” on me) vote?

[Martina]

Economically, it's a much bleaker world to get by in now. Yes, there's less institutional and casual racism and homophobia, but economic inequality has destroyed the prospects for many young people. It's a totally different economy. There's way more poverty and much less chance of climbing out of it.

When Hillary began her campaign, they wouldn't refer to economic inequality. Obama was out there campaigning for her saying things are great, that there are just a few pockets of misery that remain. The popularity of Bernie's message and later the election of Trump forced them to wake up. But the question is how could they have been so out of touch.

Biden's comments prove he is still woefully out of touch. I don't like it. However, I would still vote for him. One of the ways we can begin to emerge from this death of neoliberalism is by strengthening unions, and I trust Biden to do that. He's not my first pick, and there are mainstream Dems I wouldn't vote for, but I would still cast a ballot for Biden against Trump.

[ksrainbow]

... being that the electoral college has the final *vote* in every presidential election: my vote does not always guarantee my voice was the most popular.

Ks-

p.s.: the Electrical College is set by gerrymandered districts who suppress voter turnout.

[Martina]

Ks, I know the selection of electors is political, but don't they just follow the voting at state level, meaning if the popular vote in the entire state goes to a candidate, then all electors, regardless of party, vote for that candidate? I know a couple of states split them. Maine?

I know it's not legally required, and I kind of wish they hadn't done it the last time, but . . . .

Originally Posted by ksrainbow

p.s.: the Electrical College is set by gerrymandered districts who suppress voter turnout.

[C0LLETTE]

Originally Posted by dark_crystal

We’re not going to get anywhere by telling half the population that their experience means nothing bc they missed the Summer of Love. Nobody under age 60 was old enough to participate in “the real struggle.” Scoffing at people who had the audacity to be born in the 70s does not drive turnout. Or are we thinking we can beat Trump without the 18-34 (or 48! I’m 48 and y’all are going all “you damn kids” on me) vote?

No one is going "you damned kids" on a middle-aged 48 y/0. Someone is trying to point out that maybe her political views, and the courage to maintain/act on them did not just pop out of some seashell on a beach.

BTW, unless you really insist, I am happily done with this aspect of the thread.
Thank you.

[dark_crystal]

Originally Posted by C0LLETTE

No one is going "you damned kids" on a middle-aged 48 y/0. Someone is trying to point out that maybe her political views, and the courage to maintain/act on them did not just pop out of some seashell on a beach.

BTW, unless you really insist, I am happily done with this aspect of the thread.
Thank you.

i am pretty sure everyone's participation here has been voluntary.

All i said was that Biden is a dumbass for saying the 60s were harder than now. I did not say that anyone's politics popped out of a seashell.

I could say that today's gay teens don't know real struggle because they weren't there with me watching the government kill my friends. But i don't say that because it does not matter that it might be true, as it is not in any way productive.

Say you're a 16-year-old lesbian getting bullied my grown adults on facebook bc your school elected you prom king. Would it help you for me to say "oh cry me a river, at least you don't have AIDS?"

[C0LLETTE]

You insist. OK :

Actually, it would be useful to say "Wow, you got elected prom king. Congratulations! But please do remember, hard as it is, a lot of people probably worked hard and suffered a great deal to get us to this point. Being prom king would have been unthinkable then."

[kittygrrl]

i think all our experience is relevant and we can learn things from each other-we need to stick together and be supportive of all views-that's what we have going for us is our diversity, intelligence and ability to compromise.

[Martina]

I think it's important for people to remember the past, but not so they are grateful or even inspired. The fact is that the past contains possibilities that seem closed off to us now.

Republicans prior to Reagan weren't, for the most part, rabid deregulators. So many things we feel are almost impossible goals now were accepted from the end of the war through the seventies. I wish people knew that.

I don't care if today's activists appreciate what previous folk did, even the terrible loss of life. I would just like it if they had a sense of the world before Reagan when corporate greed had not corrupted most aspects of life. People label as socialist policies that Nixon supported.

We are lying to kids about their future prospects. We don't have the jobs anymore to support most people as middle class workers unless we really tax the rich, create a high minimum wage, and do unprecedented things to make housing affordable. That looks like, and is, socislist. Before we exported jobs and gutted viable businesses to sell them for parts, before our economy was based on finance and services for the rich, it was possible to be a working person and own a house. You could send your kids to college, take vacations, afford health care. We won't be going back to that without also returning to pre-Reagan tax rates. We will never go back to that without changes that seem extremely radical to most Americans. But no Republican of even the Reagan era could have foreseen how fast and deep the decline of the working and middle classes would be.

[dark_crystal]

Originally Posted by dark_crystal

Say you're a 16-year-old lesbian getting bullied my grown adults on facebook bc your school elected you prom king. Would it help you for me to say "oh cry me a river, at least you don't have AIDS?"

Bullied kids are at risk for suicide, so this would not be helpful-- because i would be shaming the kid and implying she's ungrateful, thus adding to any spiral she's experiencing from having her friends' parents on messenger telling her to drink bleach.

A black kid died bc he couldn't buy insulin. The important thing here is that he wasn't lynched, though, in Biden's world.

[Martina]

Just picking up on part of your post, dark_crystal. I think as you point out, there is privilege on both sides, the third party voters and, as you called them in a long ago post (I think) Democrats who are Republicans except for social justice issues.

I don't think Bernie is either-or. And while some of his followers may be up to no good -- the Beto baiting -- it's obviously possible to care about both inequality and social justice.

Rachel Maddow was horrible during the election. She completely misrepresented Bernie's politics and mocked his supporters. I am so tired of her.

I am looking forward to Mueller's actual report though, in part so she can stop obsessing. We know the SOB is guilty of obstruction. It will be a blessing to get that out there.

[dark_crystal]

Originally Posted by cathexis

Biden is correct. Those of us who were actually fighting the battles of those 60s-70s that are so readily dismissed know how rough it was. What I am reading is an attempt to smooth the creases by using terms like "civil rights," "women's liberation," and "Vietnam War." Tell it like it was, race wars where activists were getting killed often for merely registering voters, the fight to legalize abortion and Equal Rights Amendment where women and lgbtq were being assaulted on a regular basis, and the Anti-War Movement where you had thousands of people in the streets protesting a conflict, we had no business involved in, that had the daily deaths tallied by Walter Cronkite each night at 6. Young men were having to escape the country to stay safe or even alive. The draft, where a simple paper burning could get a man beat up or worse.

Today's struggles don't even hold a match, let alone a candle, to what was happening during that period. It was not the romantic time of purple haze and flower children that some remember, the times were really tough.

Mr. Jenny went to jail in bar raids, and her family were not allowed in her hometown's drug store or the burger joint until 1973, because Jim Crow lasted into my lifetime down here, and applied to Mexicans, too.

Minorities like us faced brutality, but Joe Biden's share of that struggle was selected from a place of privilege. Our blood is not his to claim.

The economic struggles that millennials face now, that they did not select, are likewise not his to dismiss. And even if ya'll are correct, and Millennials aren't deserving of empathy, what kind of candidate says that out loud? Take it from an X-er, 60s nostalgia has a very limited appeal.

Boomers like Joe Biden could pay for college off a summer job sacking groceries-- they didn't have to take on a lifetime of debt to attend college, and they didn't face bankruptcy over medical bills. They didn't need gofundme to get chemo.

Boomers were able to retire. Millenials won't have that.

In the 1960s a high school graduate could own a home and support a family of four all by themselves. Now there is no city where the minimum wage will cover an apartment.

Their moms stayed home. Their parents stayed married.

Our incarceration rate has tripled.

Our war now is even stupider than Vietnam, it's just less culturally painful because not so many white kids are going-- and i say this as someone who is watching her father die of Agent Orange exposure.

The draft saved as many lives as it destroyed-- the draft was what drove the protests that made the war unpopular. Our current wars can continue indefinitely precisely because the kids of the privileged aren't at risk.

If life was so much harder in the 1960s, why is there a 30% increase in suicide since 2000-- largely among boomers?