Butch & Transmen Friendship: Mutual Support

[TenderKnight]

Originally Posted by AtLastHome

Oh, Dapper... and here I was thinking about senior moments! ROTFL!!

Just a side note.... for the whole thread... Wouldn't it be kewl to charter a cruise of our own?! All of our partners, who we have made our family.. kids, everybody, but just us! A floating reunion or bash.... But, I do get sea sick... hummmm... I can do it!

I second that!

[AtLast]

Originally Posted by TenderKnight

I second that!

LOL... until I'm leaning over the side of the ship, sick!

[JustJo]

Originally Posted by AtLastHome

LOL... until I'm leaning over the side of the ship, sick!

We will bring you dramamine...

[Jett]

Maybe I'm mistaken but I feel like the dissonance between different masculine BFP ID's goes beyond butch codes, dating ex's etc.? I've never done that but still gotten caught in the cross fire of these "gender wars". (Yeah I realize that's bonding but needed a jump in )

Personally I think a lot of it revolves around ingrained stereotypical beliefs about women, men, female, male, lesbians, feminists and sure sometimes (but I think much less often) just plain sexism, lesphobia/homophobia, transphobia and misogyny etc.

I mentioned before that I think things here (online) get lost in translation. People read others posts through there own lens, if some of the things I mentioned above (and more) are in that persons lens when they're reading posts, I think they can read a lot between the lines that isn't there.

We are full of misinformation by the time we find these sites, "transmen transition to gain priviledge or b/c of misogyny", "lesbians hate men", "all queer females are extreme feminists", etc. etc. etc. And we get here where we should be finally equally valued and find... male female hierarchies, so here female ID'd feel undervalued and misunderstood. Male ID'd hear "I only date female ID", and to be fair this is something they face hugely more in the real world than female ID'd do. Those majority of (femme or not) lesbians who are "goo goo ga ga over butches but don't want those who think they're or look too male". That stuffs all over the internet and real life too.

And there aren't big real world communities for Transpeople and most tg or male ID butches the way there are for most female ID butches and butch lesbians. Would anyone wonder why they'd place such great value on having and finding community and desiring to feel welcome here and probably being somewhat defensive about it? I sure as hell don't.

I dunno, I think we bring a lot of the negative real world experiences in here with us, beliefs, resentments, fears and project them out onto each other...

We look for these things and where you look you'll most certainly see whether it's always there or not. Then it's the "Aha! I was right about them!"... when in reality the majority are really good peeps and we should and can be some of each others best friends and allies no matter the ID (sans natural personality conflicts).

I mean does anyone really want to win the "war"? Really actually want some particular ID to one by one blip off the site forever? I like to think none of us would really want to see that happen to anybody let alone a whole group of people.

People waste to much life on this stupid "war", I don't want anything to do with it, everything about it just tastes like shit. That's all I got to say about it.

Metro

[Andrew, Jr.]

I just responded a short time ago in a thread Medusa started about communication. And I will basically state here what I did there because it is how I feel.

I think/believe we all should celebrate each other. We should just love each other instead of tearing each other down. Life is hard enough. It is this simple.

Love,
Andrew

[Dylan]

Sooooooooo,

Do we have anything to talk about besides "The Gender War"?

I would like to know why there's a common belief that the second a butch says he's male ID'd, *some* (and usually the same) female ID'd butches think he's handed a platter of male privilege. I'm asking seriously, and I'm not being snarky. I've seen this happen since the Borders And Bridges thread on the other site, and it's definitely a recurring theme in *some* FIB's posts.


Can Anyone Tackle This?,
Dylan

[AtLast]

Originally Posted by Dylan

Sooooooooo,

Do we have anything to talk about besides "The Gender War"?

I would like to know why there's a common belief that the second a butch says he's male ID'd, *some* (and usually the same) female ID'd butches think he's handed a platter of male privilege. I'm asking seriously, and I'm not being snarky. I've seen this happen since the Borders And Bridges thread on the other site, and it's definitely a recurring theme in *some* FIB's posts.


Can Anyone Tackle This?,
Dylan

Some is operative, I hope!

Maybe, this happens simply due to the fact that no matter who we are, we have been subjected to the patriarchal confines of gender all of our lives. Unfortunately, man, male just gets equated with privilege due to this. Not a good jump to take, as there are a hell of a lot of variables involved in any form of privilege.

Also, and unfortunately, the male role models many of us have had have just been examples of this privilege gone amuck in this man's world.

On the other side of this, as one having a hand in raising a male child (who is now raising two female children), I have to say that it can be as painful to see what men in general can be saddled with in terms of the entire patriarchal schema. There are many just plain human characteristics that get genderized in ways that hold us all back.

Personally, I feel it is the buss word phenomenon here that is the culprit most often (unless it's just obvious sexist terminology - and when I use the term sexist, it means toward any form of gender). Also, the plain truth is that there have been times when I have been attacked for identifying as female. And the inverse is true for male identification. So, we all will most likely get pissed when we have this happen.

However, the problem is when we all generalize the deeds of an individual to every identification represented here. Hey, I admit, that sometimes it is hard for me to see past what has happened to me via this privilege in life, especially sexual assault and receiving less pay for the same work.

I have to bring up the fact that many male-identified or Transmen here do slap misogynist statements down as much as any female-identified butch here. I’m thinking it might be a good idea for everyone to take a look at what a member’s identification is to the left of the screen when reading posts.

But, in terms of how we interact as friends in our lives or support gender as what we now know (some of us are old), fluid and just not your mother's or father's gender? And, online, how do we all deal with this... that is my original question. What effect does this have on us as part of this entire community?


But, 'cept.... talk about all of this.... I'm too arthritic to tackle much these days...

[Jett]

Originally Posted by Dylan

Sooooooooo,

Do we have anything to talk about besides "The Gender War"?

I would like to know why there's a common belief that the second a butch says he's male ID'd, *some* (and usually the same) female ID'd butches think he's handed a platter of male privilege. I'm asking seriously, and I'm not being snarky. I've seen this happen since the Borders And Bridges thread on the other site, and it's definitely a recurring theme in *some* FIB's posts.


Can Anyone Tackle This?,
Dylan

I don't believe I've ever seen FIB's say that male ID receive male privilege, or the posts you've spoken of either. More so I've seen many conversations involving all ID's, femme, butches, etc speaking on if transmen receive it.

If there's that "common belief", I guess no one told me, can't help you. I could speculate, but it's be just that speculation, cause I don't believe they do myself. Besides I think there's enough speculation around here enough as it.

Metro