Passing - Is it a Privilege?

[Apocalipstic]

I have really been thinking about this.

I guess for me, when someone says they don't care about who knows if they are trans, it does not means that they don't care about the struggles of other people. It means that they do their own thing. I see that as healthy, not selfish.

I admire and respect you AtLast, but is there something I am missing? Should Transpeople who have hated themselves their entire lives and known something was wrong and are finally becoming who they knew they always were supposed to be, announce their gender? Are they supposed to feel bad for passing?

Especially in a part of the country with pretty much ZERO support from community. The Gay and Lesbian community in Nashville does not even support Butches and Femmes, much less Transpeople.

Also,

When someone new comes on the website it would be great if we could not immediately assume the worst and call them selfish etc etc....

I don't get this Butches V Transguys thing. I find it very distressing.

[AtLast]

Originally Posted by apocalipstic

I have really been thinking about this.

I guess for me, when someone says they don't care about who knows if they are trans, it does not means that they don't care about the struggles of other people. It means that they do their own thing. I see that as healthy, not selfish.

I admire and respect you AtLast, but is there something I am missing? Should Transpeople who have hated themselves their entire lives and known something was wrong and are finally becoming who they knew they always were supposed to be, announce their gender? Are they supposed to feel bad for passing?

Especially in a part of the country with pretty much ZERO support from community. The Gay and Lesbian community in Nashville does not even support Butches and Femmes, much less Transpeople.

Also,

When someone new comes on the website it would be great if we could not immediately assume the worst and call them selfish etc etc....

I don't get this Butches V Transguys thing. I find it very distressing.

I don't get it, either that's why I do what I do and always will.

I am taking in your points here about a new person and will act accordingly and in private. I am tired of assumptions, too. And misread statements. But, we are all human. Some of us get fired-up due to our history, I do.

I'm not willing to get into trans related discussions anymore on the site. Just never works here. There are many political threads that I enjoy that are not gender related. (except, for me, the world is interrelated via gender). Real-time relationships and work are my focus and this is just not a good forum for these discussions. Yet, I'm glad this site has this representation because maybe it will help kids and families find resources and support. Frankly, that is what is important to me.

I see the bunching of thanks reps accumulating as the wagons circle. Sometimes I wonder if anyone actually reads posts and thinks about them, or just looks at the Thanks box and clicks because they see particular screen names there. I am not going to use that function anymore- just send reps that are private. I feel like we have made a cheerleading (as in immature in-crowd forming mentality from middle and high school- popularity contests) tool out of that site feature used to summon the forces.


Big weekend ahead with various Pride events in SF with real-time friends and organizations that I am (others are too) proud to be a part of. If my body allows my participation as I want to give it. Time to relax, calm my senses and body so I can be there in full spirit. It is nice to be able to share these activities with people one works with all year. Besides, a friend is going to show his new chest post surgery and he is so funny with his excitement- not going to let this get ruined.

I really am getting too old for this!

[Corkey]

[QUOTE=AtLastHome;136139]

I don't get it, either that's why I do what I do and always will.

I am taking in your points here about a new person and will act accordingly and in private. I am tired of assumptions, too. And misread statements. But, we are all human. Some of us get fired-up due to our history, I do.

I'm not willing to get into trans related discussions anymore on the site. Just never works here. There are many political threads that I enjoy that are not gender related. (except, for me, the world is interrelated via gender). Real-time relationships and work are my focus and this is just not a good forum for these discussions. Yet, I'm glad this site has this representation because maybe it will help kids and families find resources and support. Frankly, that is what is important to me.

I see the bunching of thanks reps accumulating as the wagons circle. Sometimes I wonder if anyone actually reads posts and thinks about them, or just looks at the Thanks box and clicks because they see particular screen names there. I am not going to use that function anymore- just send reps that are private. I feel like we have made a cheerleading (as in immature in-crowd forming mentality from middle and high school- popularity contests) tool out of that site feature used to summon the forces.

Ok I have issue with this part of your statement. Are you implying that because someone thanks a post that isn't yours they are somehow immature, and high school? Really?? And how many time have I thanked your posts ALH? If you don't want to participate, then don't, but to call members immature because they don't agree with you is a bit offensive,and condescending.


Big weekend ahead with various Pride events in SF with real-time friends and organizations that I am (others are too) proud to be a part of. If my body allows my participation as I want to give it. Time to relax, calm my senses and body so I can be there in full spirit. It is nice to be able to share these activities with people one works with all year. Besides, a friend is going to show his new chest post surgery and he is so funny with his excitement- not going to let this get ruined.

I really am getting too old for this!

[AtLast]

[quote=Corkey;136148]

Originally Posted by AtLastHome

[FONT="Century Gothic"][COLOR="Black"]



I see the bunching of thanks reps accumulating as the wagons circle. Sometimes I wonder if anyone actually reads posts and thinks about them, or just looks at the Thanks box and clicks because they see particular screen names there. I am not going to use that function anymore- just send reps that are private. I feel like we have made a cheerleading (as in immature in-crowd forming mentality from middle and high school- popularity contests) tool out of that site feature used to summon the forces.

Ok I have issue with this part of your statement. Are you implying that because someone thanks a post that isn't yours they are somehow immature, and high school? Really?? And how many time have I thanked your posts ALH? If you don't want to participate, then don't, but to call members immature because they don't agree with you is a bit offensive,and condescending.

Thank you for just asking me for clarification. No, this isn't what I said or implied. It is the process of this Thanks button that I am talking about. It is public and at first I liked it because it was fast and simple. Now, as we go on, I see Thanks piles during controversy and that usually means side-taking. This is my interpretation. Factions do develop on sites like this. Just happens.

That process leads to immature behavior based on who thinks is kewl to me. It is obvious here (and on every other site like this one, that factions develop. It just happens and to me, leads to so much of the bashing we do and inability to actually hear each other (I am amazed at all of the non-related assumptions being made about my posts). Sometimes it's just hard not to get going on this path because there are really serious things happening in our lives and we get sensitive. I get sensitive, too. And I certainly have no expectation of everyone agreeing with me. Not here, that is for certain!

I appreciate Thanks from members very much, but have to say that when they take the time to add a statement or two with a rep message, it feels more personal. My reverting to the traditional rep type does not mean I won't be letting people know I appreciate what they posted.
I said that [B][I]instead of using this feature from now on, I am just going to send a private rep message which is not the same as leaving a public THANKS - different process. I don't remember the Thanks button on the old site.... maybe it was there, possibly added now, I haven't been there in a long time. People that were not part of that site will have no idea what I am talking about.

I feel like this is a huge derail going on, so, if you have something to say to me, just PM me. I am not going to continue to post here and certainly not going to continue to be part of taking the thread off course. I am not going to check back to see any responses to this post. Let people get back to the topic.

[Corkey]

Oh for fuck sakes. We were back on track. Passing..... the topic.

[Sun]

Good topic and one that I will think about and come back to.

"Passing" transferred into "Invisibility" is something that I have been thinking about lately. The most profound example of that is how I experience people assuming that my girl is straight. We both embrace our "queerness" and resist major boxes. There must be a way for the invisibility to soften, even in more conservative areas.

[atomiczombie]

Originally Posted by Sun

Good topic and one that I will think about and come back to.

"Passing" transferred into "Invisibility" is something that I have been thinking about lately. The most profound example of that is how I experience people assuming that my girl is straight. We both embrace our "queerness" and resist major boxes. There must be a way for the invisibility to soften, even in more conservative areas.

SUN! Buddy its good to see you here.

[chefhmboyrd]

Originally Posted by AtLastHome

I see the bunching of thanks reps accumulating as the wagons circle.

i see no wagon circling
just a difference in personal experience and opinion.
i respect your right to feel the way you do
i only ask for the same

@

[Apocalipstic]

Originally Posted by AtLastHome

I don't get it, either that's why I do what I do and always will.

I am taking in your points here about a new person and will act accordingly and in private. I am tired of assumptions, too. And misread statements. But, we are all human. Some of us get fired-up due to our history, I do.

I'm not willing to get into trans related discussions anymore on the site. Just never works here. There are many political threads that I enjoy that are not gender related. (except, for me, the world is interrelated via gender). Real-time relationships and work are my focus and this is just not a good forum for these discussions. Yet, I'm glad this site has this representation because maybe it will help kids and families find resources and support. Frankly, that is what is important to me.

I see the bunching of thanks reps accumulating as the wagons circle. Sometimes I wonder if anyone actually reads posts and thinks about them, or just looks at the Thanks box and clicks because they see particular screen names there. I am not going to use that function anymore- just send reps that are private. I feel like we have made a cheerleading (as in immature in-crowd forming mentality from middle and high school- popularity contests) tool out of that site feature used to summon the forces.


Big weekend ahead with various Pride events in SF with real-time friends and organizations that I am (others are too) proud to be a part of. If my body allows my participation as I want to give it. Time to relax, calm my senses and body so I can be there in full spirit. It is nice to be able to share these activities with people one works with all year. Besides, a friend is going to show his new chest post surgery and he is so funny with his excitement- not going to let this get ruined.

I really am getting too old for this!

It makes me sad that you think we are that shallow when we don't agree, that we have not read and have no knowledge of history or community....or even basic reading.

I bet Pride in San Francisco is a blast, I hope you have fun!

At Pride in other parts of the country Butches, Femmes and Transpeople are often ostracized, pointed at, talked about, ignored and over the years grow a tough skin. We can't care about how other people see us, or we would either have to move to California, New York City, live in the closet, or just not be ourselves.

Nothing should be ruined, no forces are being summoned. No conspiracy. Just a discussion about a pretty strong post aimed at a new member...and yes, I do have good reading comprehension.

I just do not understand what seemed to be seething anger on this subject. I admit I have not read every thread on the subject, but I do see that there is a great divide.

Again, I hope you have fun at Pride and I hope that you remember how lucky you are to be somewhere Pride and the Queer community is a happy thing.

[T D]

Snip

Originally Posted by apocalipstic

I don't get this Butches V Transguys thing. I find it very distressing.

Amen, neither do I. I just don't get it!!! In fact I had no idea there was even any issues surrounding this until Butch Voices came along.