Passing - Is it a Privilege?

[Heart]

Originally Posted by Dylan

So, whether it's given freely or 'stolen', One still has the privilege. And it's 'given' in the first place, because One didn't bother to say anything about it/One didn't correct the assumption.


Dylan

There are points well taken on both sides, however I disagree with the above part of your post. It is not the job of the person granted passing privilege to constantly correct assumptions based upon other people's biases.

And I still contend that while passing may be a tool, a strategy, a device, it does not meet the definition of privilege because at any moment it can be removed from you by others. In fact those that are passing face specific risks related to discovery. Think Brandon Teena.

Heart

[Dylan]

Originally Posted by Heart

There are points well taken on both sides, however I disagree with the above part of your post. It is not the job of the person granted passing privilege to constantly correct assumptions based upon other people's biases.

And I still contend that while passing may be a tool, a strategy, a device, it does not meet the definition of privilege because at any moment it can be removed from you by others. In fact those that are passing face specific risks related to discovery. Think Brandon Teena.

Heart

I think if One is unhappy with the assumptions, then it IS One's job to constantly correct. I don't think One can be too upset that people around One think One is X if One doesn't take the initiative to correct those assumptions. If I'm read as female, I can internally be upset that I am not being read as male, but it's my job to correct those assumptions in some way. Yeah, it's tiring, but expecting Others to just 'know' something is placing the burden/blame on Others. I mean, I can question, "What am I doing that's making me 'look female'?", but most people are going to assume that if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, etc. There are ways to out Oneself if One chooses to do it...but many people don't choose to do it, because of the fact that they don't want to face the discrimination.

No, I agree with you...I don't think passing in and of itself is a privilege (until it is used privilegedly). I mean, being white is not a privilege until One steps outside of their house and is granted that privilege. Privilege like gender is determined by Others. However, One is still being granted the privilege and is still using the privilege of the dominant group. When I'm granted male privilege, it's usually cis-male privilege (trans-male privilege looks a little bit different). I'm still given the privilege, and yeah, it's a tightrope walk, and it can be taken away...but I still have the privilege. I totally get what you're saying. But I've still been granted that privilege.

I think if One chooses to 'pass' (i.e. stay in the closet), then the burden IS on One. I'm specifically talking about people who (for instance), change up pronouns when in conversations with co-workers/friends/family/whomever to 'appear' straight. Or, people who have smoke screen marriages to keep the illusion of Straightdom. I think if One knowingly chooses to pass in order to maintain the privilege, One can't really bitch later when One isn't read as a member of the oppressed group. I DO totally think there's something in experiencing that discrimination and living that discrimination that sets up the social cues of the oppressed group. There are just different social cues for (using the example of) straight people and queers. If One has spent their time 'polishing' their social cues to be read as straight, those polished social cues are not going to 'cut the mustard' when One enters a queer space, and One is going to be read as 'straight', because all of the social cues they're giving off are going to be read as such. This happens with some trans people also...no matter what they do, they're just read as their assigned gender (or they're read as queer). I think this happens with ANY person who (intentionally) 'passes' regardless what oppressed group they belong to. I think the nuances are (sometimes) incredibly subtle, but they're definitely there. I also think these nuances and the privilege granted causes a lot of the biphobia we see so much of, because (it's assumed) bi people get a lot of straight privilege, and they haven't lived the 'queer experience'...they're not treated with the same discrimination as out gays/lesbians, because 'they have one foot in Straightdom' (again, assumptions).

I think a lot of (what is tagged) homophobia is also cisnormative privilege, because a very masculine/butch (speaking in societal definitions of what is masculine/feminine) gay man is going to be treated a lot differently than a big flaming queen. A very feminine lesbian is going to be treated a lot differently than a very butch lesbian...even if the butch man/feminine lesbian come out of the closet. And you can see how the difference in treatment runs down from very feminine lesbians through andro lesbians and down to butch lesbians...you can see the same gamut run through butch gay men through andro gay men and down to the treatment of effeminate gay men. The more one 'conforms' (not quite the word I want) to what society says is appropriate, the more privilege One is granted ('assimilation' is rewarded...even if One is not necessarily 'trying' to assimilate, it is read as assimilation, and it's still rewarded).

I rambled all over the place, but basically, I think if One chooses to stay in the closet, One can't bitch later, because they weren't read This Way. One can't have One's cake and eat it too. One can't live in the closet when it's convenient (i.e. adhere to social cues of Straightdom), and then complain when in the company of the Oppressed group that they're being read as straight. I mean, if One is utilizing the tools of the oppressor (i.e. the social cues of the dominant group), it's not the burden of the oppressed group to 'just know' One is actually part of the group.


Dylan

[Heart]

Actually, I think there are differences between passing privilege related to race and that related to gender and mixing it all up together could cause confusion.

My ex partner was African American and could pass for white. Had she corrected people's assumptions, that is pretty much all she would have done all day, every day. Passing for white resulted in being constantly subjected to the kind of casual racism that most people would not have enacted in front of her if they knew she was a person-of-color.

So, the issue really wasn't so much correcting someone's innocent assumption that she was white (which she did with regularity), as much as it was having to confront people's unexamined and often subtle forms of racism constantly. I don't think you, Dylan, would say that it is the job of a person of color to have to constantly, daily educate white folks about their racism -- but that's basically what you are suggesting my ex, who had "passing privilege," should do. Maybe the problem isn't the assumption so much as it is the "ism" that invariably follows the assumption. That's the thing that makes passing not a real privilege in my book.

Heart

[Dylan]

Originally Posted by Heart

Actually, I think there are differences between passing privilege related to race and that related to gender and mixing it all up together could cause confusion.

My ex partner was African American and could pass for white. Had she corrected people's assumptions, that is pretty much all she would have done all day, every day. Passing for white resulted in being constantly subjected to the kind of casual racism that most people would not have enacted in front of her if they knew she was a person-of-color.

So, the issue really wasn't so much correcting someone's innocent assumption that she was white (which she did with regularity), as much as it was having to confront people's unexamined and often subtle forms of racism constantly. I don't think you, Dylan, would say that it is the job of a person of color to have to constantly, daily educate white folks about their racism -- but that's basically what you are suggesting my ex, who had "passing privilege," should do. Maybe the problem isn't the assumption so much as it is the "ism" that invariably follows the assumption. That's the thing that makes passing not a real privilege in my book.

Heart

I hear a lot more 'gay' jokes now that I am assumed straight. If I don't want to hear the comments, it's my job to stand up and say something...I would expect an ally would do the same. No, it's not my job to educate people on queer issues, but it IS MY responsibility to put MY boundaries in place in what kind of comments I want to hear. I don't even have to out myself to do that. I don't have to out myself as trans to tell someone off-color comments are not acceptable. I mean, even when I 'looked' queer, I still heard comments every day...they just weren't presented in the same manner. Off color comments aren't really appropriate for any situation, are they? I think a privileged jackass is a privileged jackass. Is it the ism or the privilege that follows the assumption? Six of one/half dozen, probably, eh?

It may very well be quite different for POC, people with disabilities, or any other group to which I don't belong...I don't know as I don't belong to those groups.

However, if I don't want people to assume I'm cis, or if I don't want people to assume I'm straight, it's MY responsibility to deal with outing myself. It's also MY responsibility (when in trans or queer space) to let people know my status (if I want them to know). Blaming other people for NOT recognizing me is...well...kind of weak and lazy...especially if I'm giving off social cues that others may not recognize (i.e. getting upset because straight people can't read queer cues, or utilizing cis cues around trans people). I mean, straight people (who aren't culturally queer) don't know 'queer code'. They're going to look for obvious things like 'swishy' walking or 'limp wristed' behaviors (obvious 'stereotypical' behaviors). Straight people are not going to pick up on subtle cues (sometimes even not so subtle...I'm surprised how many straight people have rainbow flags, because they just love rainbows, and they have no idea it's actually a queer moniker) queers would pick up on. They're just not. If straight people don't speak MY language, and I want them to understand me, it's MY responsibility to put it in words they can understand. Whatever happens after that is on them. I'm not responsible for their (re)actions, but I can't very well complain if they don't 'see me' as queer or trans.

If I walk around all of the time saying 'straight/cis' things and acting 'straight/cis', I can't very well get upset if people then assume I'm straight/cis, right? I mean, that's just kind of a double bind. "I'm going to act straight and cis, and then when you make the assumption that I'm straight and cis, I'm going to blame you for making that assumption." "If I speak a code you don't understand, and then you don't understand me, I'm going to blame you for not understanding me." I mean, really?

And again, if someone is very invested in passing (again, living in the closet...and being conscious of passing...i.e. changing pronouns of partners, so as not to blow One's 'cover'...in other words, speaking the language/code of straight people), it's NOT the responsibility of Others to 'know' when One wants to be recognized. I think expecting people to know when One 'wants' to be recognized is a little...mmmmm...what's the word I want?...obnoxious?...arrogant?...double-bindy?...weak?...lazy?...I don't know the word I want.

I 'pass' (as straight) in limited interaction type environments. If I have to spend too much time with someone new, weirdness happens. And that weirdness happens, because I don't 'talk straight'. I talk in a language/code most straight people can't understand. But, I get the cis privilege, because cis people just don't think about trans people...at all. I just confuse people, because they can't say I'm 'gay', because I'm with Mahhh Woman (or they've met her, or I've brought her up in conversation). It just absolutely never dawns on them that I'm trans. They stare at me trying to figure out what the fuck, but it just never dawns on them. I would have to actually TELL them. Even if I fuck up and say something like, "My mother would have rather I got pregnant at 16..." (which just happened the other day), it just never dawns on them that I'm trans. They just look at me like I'm from another planet and say, "How would that happen?" They don't speak the code trans (or even queer) people would pick up on. If I want them to know, I have to tell them in THEIR language (as opposed to trans code). That's not educating (altho, it could very well lead to educating)...it's telling people "how that would happen". I can't very well get pissed off at cis people for 'not seeing me' as trans. I mean, yeah, I can get ticked that I constantly have to tell people, or that I have to out myself constantly, or that I have to explain something, but to get upset AT cis people or straight people, because I (me,me,me) don't want to open my own mouth? That's putting an awful lot of (my own) responsibility on other people, and expecting them to do a lot of work for some random acquaintance/client/co-worker/stranger/someone not really that attached to me.

If I just expected those people to 'just know', it's kind of self-centered, no? I mean, expecting people to 'just know' when I haven't given them any clue? Isn't that kind of like expecting people to 'just know' my toe hurts if I'm not limping or walking 'out of the norm' or saying 'ow'? And then, when I've acted like nothing happened, I'm then 'allowed' to be mad at them for not recognizing my hurting toe? That's ridiculous.

And if I'm in trans or queer space, it's also my responsibility to conform to trans/queer code if I want people to 'recognize' me. I mean, let's say, I walk into a gay/lesbian bar. I'm going to be immediately seen as suspect if I don't say something. If I don't follow the social cues like I speak the language, I'm going to be seen as a threatening interloper. How are queers supposed to 'just know' I'm queer unless I say something to them? And why is it THEIR fault if they can't 'read me'? Why is it someone else's responsibility to 'get me' and not my own responsibility to 'let them know'? I mean, is it a lesbian's job to 'just know' if I walk into a lesbian bar, and I don't give off the right set of social cues? If I lived somewhere where there were trans bars, it would also be my responsibility to speak the code for the patrons of that establishment. I mean, if I act like an ogling/scared/frustrated straight cis man, I can't very well get pissed off if people assume I'm an ogling or scared or frustrated straight cis man. Straight people are threatening in queer space. If I'm read as straight, I'm going to be seen as threatening, and people are probably going to keep their distance from me until I give off some sort of social cue. Same as if I walk too closely behind a woman on the street at night. Straight cis men are considered threatening to women. If I walk too closely behind a woman, I'm going to be seen as a threat. Who's responsibility is it to 'just know'? Is the responsibility on that woman, or is it on me?

Now, I'm not saying, I think it's right that straight people are seen as a threat to queers, but it's just the way it is because of history. And if I act straight and cis/give off the social cues of straight cis people, I'm going to be treated as such.


Dylan

[Heart]

Great post Dylan - though what we were talking about originally wasn't whose responsibility it is to deal with bias -- it was whether or not passing is a privilege. In fact, this discussion of responsibility is one of the ways in which passing is distinctly not a privilege, since true privilege requires no explanations or disclaimers.

Passing is a reality that exists due to the power pardigmn. It may be a choice someone makes as a strategy for survival, a by-product of their presentation, or something they actively try to confront. It may grant temporary comfort and ease or it may get someone killed. But what passing is not, in my book, is a privilege. Privilege doesn't put you at risk for bashing, lynching, or rape. I get that passing can feel like a privilege in comparison to the direct harassment that a person without the ability to pass might face, but feeling like a privilege is not the same as actual privilege. I think the difference is relevant.

Heart

ETA: In fact, for it to make sense to me, I need to uncouple the words "passing," and "privilege." We are not granted "passing privilege." Yes, my ex was sometimes granted white-skin privilege, (until she wasn't), I am sometimes granted straight privilege (until I'm not), a butch might be granted male privilege (until s/he isn't). It is a privilege to be white, straight, or male. It is not a privilige to pass as those things.

[Dylan]

Heart,

I think anyone who has privilege and claims to be aware of it has a responsibility to use that privilege in a way which doesn't oppress or threaten others.

If One consciously chooses to use that (passing) privilege as a weapon, they are no better than any other oppressor.

Passing for anything isn't a privilege on it's own (we've already agreed on that), but soaking up the privilege and then putting the blame on another group (i.e. because they don't 'recognize') is offensive...and I would even argue privileged in itself.


Dylan

[Heart]

Okay, we agree that passing in and of itself isn't a privilege.

I don't think I suggested anywhere that one should "soak up privilege and then put the blame on another group." Not sure how you got that out of what I have been saying. Or maybe you're just making a different point.

What I did say was that if a person of color is granted white skin privilege (for example), they may choose to confront the racism behind that each and every time it happens, or they may not. It is not, however their responsibility/job to confront it. It may not even be safe to do that.

Not sure we are communicating clearly here so don't want to appear to be having an argument we aren't really even having. Know what I mean?

Heart

[iamkeri1]

Heart,
I disagree with you on this point, at least from how I have experienced it. In and earlier post I made this point.

I was at all times aware, however, that I had the privlege of revealing or not revealing my orientation when in a work or straight social situation. I was aware that I could choose safety if I felt I needed to, or that I could choose to avoid confrontation if was having a weak moment.

This was a privilege my butch friends and partners did not have.

Mrs. Strutt made a similar point in her post

So was the fact I "passed" as a straight woman a privilege in terms of "safety" for me and my child? Yes, it was. It also reminded me I can turn my "passing" on and off at will, for the reasons and situations I choose, while Mr. Strutt cannot.

I believe that at least the freedom to make this choice is a privilege.

Smooches,
Keri

Originally Posted by Heart

Great post Dylan - though what we were talking about originally wasn't whose responsibility it is to deal with bias -- it was whether or not passing is a privilege. In fact, this discussion of responsibility is one of the ways in which passing is distinctly not a privilege, since true privilege requires no explanations or disclaimers.

Passing is a reality that exists due to the power pardigmn. It may be a choice someone makes as a strategy for survival, a by-product of their presentation, or something they actively try to confront. It may grant temporary comfort and ease or it may get someone killed. But what passing is not, in my book, is a privilege. Privilege doesn't put you at risk for bashing, lynching, or rape. I get that passing can feel like a privilege in comparison to the direct harassment that a person without the ability to pass might face, but feeling like a privilege is not the same as actual privilege. I think the difference is relevant.

Heart

ETA: In fact, for it to make sense to me, I need to uncouple the words "passing," and "privilege." We are not granted "passing privilege." Yes, my ex was sometimes granted white-skin privilege, (until she wasn't), I am sometimes granted straight privilege (until I'm not), a butch might be granted male privilege (until s/he isn't). It is a privilege to be white, straight, or male. It is not a privilige to pass as those things.

[Heart]

Yes, Keri I see the point that you and Mrs. Strutt have made -- which is the very point that I take issue with. Yes, I see that you may be granted straight privilege, that you may get to make a choice about whether or not to reveal your queer-ness in certain situations, but I don't define that choice (to pass) as a privilege. I define it as a strategy you are using to avoid conflict or danger or confrontation (or whatever in the given situation). If you really had straight privilege, there would be no need to employ the strategy of passing.

I am not denying that passing exists and can be used to one's advantage, what I am suggesting is that we not call that "privilege." Privilege, IMO, has a very specific context and meaning and to use it to define passing just feels problematic to me. For one thing, what would happen if, for example, someone found out something about you being queer and decided to out you. The inherent danger in passing is the risk of being outed -- and the passer has no control over that.

Calling passing a privilege makes it sound like an empowered thing, something that the passer has complete control over -- but that is not the case. The very nature of passing includes an aspect of stealth, subterfuge, (or stealing as I said before), and that puts the passer at risk.

Okay, I think I've now said what I'm trying to say nine ways to Sunday, so if I haven't made it clear by now I should just shut up.

Heart