The Mythical *Pass* for Differently-Abled People

Soft*Silver · 07-20-2010, 07:55 PM

On another site, I acted as a "buddy" for someone who had very poor social skills, could not read or chose not to read social cues and was sexually inappropriate to the point of making people so uncomfortable they considered calling in the police. I offered to be their buddy to help them not get kicked off the site.

I was SO stupid!

What I found out after awhile was this was much larger than what was being presented, and all that was being presented as DA wasnt necessarily DA. At least not in the diagnosis given. (There has to be some reason for someone created that much drama and crisis to get attention. )

I stepped back and took a good look at the interaction of this person with everyone. There was a definite pattern. I did an intervention online with this person and basically became a target of theirs afterwards. But at least I was out of their loop of frenzy...

The reason I bring this up, is that by attempting to help someone socialize in a group setting, by offering a buddy to help out, makes the buddy responsible (and thus the admins and mods as well as the "buddy") and if this person who is aided escalates or becomes confrontational or hostile to the cueing, and decides to act out and harms someone, the buddy and admins and mods will be set up for liability since they took the responsibility.

I realized after my personal experience just how scared I should have been. Sometimes, what you see online is only the tip of the ice burg....

and also, people hide diagnosis ...and some will self-assign diagnosis without therapeutic assignment. Just because it quacks like a duck doesnt mean its not a chicken in duck's feathers...

I like the idea of an ambassador where someone can GO to the ambassador if they need help

but I am really opposed to a Buddy goes to them and walks them thru their postings and interactions and watches out for their inappropriate behaviors. Makes me very uneasy...

Apocalipstic · 07-20-2010, 08:19 PM

So sorry this happened to you. You make a good point that there are on line predators.

You know, that does make sense, if someone refuses to use the ignore button, then why would they listen to someone supposed to help them.

We need to be very careful who we give our phone numbers to. Very careful.

Quote:

Originally Posted by softness

On another site, I acted as a "buddy" for someone who had very poor social skills, could not read or chose not to read social cues and was sexually inappropriate to the point of making people so uncomfortable they considered calling in the police. I offered to be their buddy to help them not get kicked off the site.

I was SO stupid!

What I found out after awhile was this was much larger than what was being presented, and all that was being presented as DA wasnt necessarily DA. At least not in the diagnosis given. (There has to be some reason for someone created that much drama and crisis to get attention. )

I stepped back and took a good look at the interaction of this person with everyone. There was a definite pattern. I did an intervention online with this person and basically became a target of theirs afterwards. But at least I was out of their loop of frenzy...

The reason I bring this up, is that by attempting to help someone socialize in a group setting, by offering a buddy to help out, makes the buddy responsible (and thus the admins and mods as well as the "buddy") and if this person who is aided escalates or becomes confrontational or hostile to the cueing, and decides to act out and harms someone, the buddy and admins and mods will be set up for liability since they took the responsibility.

I realized after my personal experience just how scared I should have been. Sometimes, what you see online is only the tip of the ice burg....

and also, people hide diagnosis ...and some will self-assign diagnosis without therapeutic assignment. Just because it quacks like a duck doesnt mean its not a chicken in duck's feathers...

I like the idea of an ambassador where someone can GO to the ambassador if they need help

but I am really opposed to a Buddy goes to them and walks them thru their postings and interactions and watches out for their inappropriate behaviors. Makes me very uneasy...

Soft*Silver · 07-20-2010, 09:37 PM

and your addresses, and work place names and towns, and your personal emails...

online predators arent always child molesters. Sometimes they are people who like to create chaos..it serves as a way of feeling in control. If they are the one creating the chaos, then they can affect its pace and direction. And this chaos is attention serving. They also "groom" their victims just like a child molester grooms his victims. Bonding, isolating, splitting behaviors (he said this about you, so he isnt my friend anymore..you are!) creating a codependency between you and them, stroking your ego (I fell for this and ashamedly, I admit it. Taught me a valuable lesson), etc. Once groomed, you are invested with someone who is a master/mistress of manipulation. And yes, they ARE DA...but as others have said, none of us are acting as therapists or social workers on this site. And this level of behavior can exceed appropriate behavior for ANYONE on this site..

these kind of folks are rarer than a albino zebra. But they are around, and I did find one on another site. I had to take a good hard look at why I fell for this. And it was ego based. (Working hard on that now.) 99.9% of the people you meet online will not be anything like this. But .01% will be.

I have learned not to give out too much information too soon.

Quote:

Originally Posted by apocalipstic

So sorry this happened to you. You make a good point that there are on line predators.

You know, that does make sense, if someone refuses to use the ignore button, then why would they listen to someone supposed to help them.

We need to be very careful who we give our phone numbers to. Very careful.

SuperFemme · 07-20-2010, 10:28 PM

I would like to reiterate this: Nobody is being asked to change. Or to "grow their capacity". I want that to be very clear. Asking people to work with the capacity that they already have is not asking anyone to change. It is not asking people to suddenly have a greater capacity. Simply to work with what you've got.

Also, I would like to once more be super clear about what the "Mythical Pass" is that I am referring to. Because I feel that the definition keeps getting lost.
Mythical Pass = not requiring a differently abled person to follow the rules.

A pass is NOT about giving somebody leeway. Not about choosing to act/interact with a person when concerns come up. Not about abandoning the empathy & compassion with which the admin/owner treat everyone with. Not a witch hunt. Not about advocating (or not) for another member.

I *hear* the AS members and their concerns. There is no agenda, and nobody is complaining about you. Nor asking you to change. I feel like this pass issue has struck a chord that is not positive.

I am also not demanding people come to me for anything. I *am* here should anyone choose to do that, but please, feel free to look to your peers or whomever it may be that can be of assistance. Hell go right to the mods/admins if you have an issue. But please? Don't not go to anyone. If something is not addressed, it can not be changed.

Softness? I wanted to thank you for sharing your experience, that was really valuable information. I'm so sorry you had to go through that.

But? It sounds like you have done the hard work around it and that it won't easily happen again. That is success.

Anyone that does feel ok about coming to me? Pls know that you can do so for any number of reasons. My goal is to make sure that the site is aware of any changes needed, and that we have proper outreach to differently abled members.

violaine · 07-20-2010, 11:17 PM

[QUOTE=SuperFemme;157752]I would like to reiterate this: Nobody is being asked to change. Or to "grow their capacity". I want that to be very clear. Asking people to work with the capacity that they already have is not asking anyone to change. It is not asking people to suddenly have a greater capacity. Simply to work with what you've got.

Also, I would like to once more be super clear about what the "Mythical Pass" is that I am referring to. Because I feel that the definition keeps getting lost.
Mythical Pass = not requiring a differently abled person to follow the rules.

A pass is NOT about giving somebody leeway. N''ot about choosing to act/interact with a person when concerns come up. Not about abandoning the empathy & compassion with which the admin/owner treat everyone with. Not a witch hunt. Not about advocating (or not) for another member.

I *hear* the AS members and their concerns. There is no agenda, and nobody is complaining about you. Nor asking you to change. I feel like this pass issue has struck a chord that is not positive.

SuperFemme,

i was thinking about something-

when you write that the 'definition keeps getting lost' and/or the pass issue has 'struck a negative chord' - i'm wondering if it's because there are other DA people in this thread, and not everyone will see things the way you see/comprehend them?

i probably will not/cannot process exactly the same as another aspie- but we may have a better understanding of things we try to communicate between ourselves, due to at least, some of the AT wiring. maybe i have the most reasons/times for editing [smile].

does this make sense?

AtLast · 07-21-2010, 01:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by softness

and your addresses, and work place names and towns, and your personal emails...

online predators arent always child molesters. Sometimes they are people who like to create chaos..it serves as a way of feeling in control. If they are the one creating the chaos, then they can affect its pace and direction. And this chaos is attention serving. They also "groom" their victims just like a child molester grooms his victims. Bonding, isolating, splitting behaviors (he said this about you, so he isnt my friend anymore..you are!) creating a codependency between you and them, stroking your ego (I fell for this and ashamedly, I admit it. Taught me a valuable lesson), etc. Once groomed, you are invested with someone who is a master/mistress of manipulation. And yes, they ARE DA...but as others have said, none of us are acting as therapists or social workers on this site. And this level of behavior can exceed appropriate behavior for ANYONE on this site..

these kind of folks are rarer than a albino zebra. But they are around, and I did find one on another site. I had to take a good hard look at why I fell for this. And it was ego based. (Working hard on that now.) 99.9% of the people you meet online will not be anything like this. But .01% will be.

I have learned not to give out too much information too soon.

Good advise!

Unfortunately, that very, very samall percentage does exist and adults can certainly be taken advantaged of (or manipulated) by these people and targeted. No, don't give out to much information, too soon. Nothing wrong with caution.

Apocalipstic · 07-22-2010, 07:59 AM

I do think that is someone wanted to help and be a buddy it should be someone of the same gender. I think wayyy less confusion would happen that way.

and

Don't give out your phone numbers and adresses to anyone!

Soft*Silver · 07-22-2010, 11:09 AM

I think gender has little to do with it.

SuperFemme · 07-22-2010, 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by apocalipstic

I do think that is someone wanted to help and be a buddy it should be someone of the same gender. I think wayyy less confusion would happen that way.

and

Don't give out your phone numbers and adresses to anyone!

what is your line of thinking on this?

Apocalipstic · 07-22-2010, 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuperFemme

what is your line of thinking on this?

Liam suggested it and I think if it is something he wants to do, it might be cool. I really have no idea how it would work, but admire him for suggesting it.

I am not really stable enough mood and time wise on a day to day basis to do somethting like this myself and honestly, do not have the patience. If I made good suggestions and the person refused to make any changes, I would be DONE. Laugh! I would be a nagging freak. Plus, I don't always say the right things myself.

I do also think it is important to know predators are out there and to be very very careful like Softness said. I thought maybe if the person needing help was a guy, having a guy buddy would keep anyone from getting any "ideas" as it were, or same if it's a Femme or Butch. But if the person is really a predator with nothing wrong with them (and they are out there) then no amount of Buddy is going to help.

So, to sumarize....
I could not do it
and it depends on the person, if something is ACTUALLY wrong with them and are they the type to accept help.

07-20-2010, 07:55 PM	#1
SoftSilver Infamous Member How Do You Identify?: femme Preferred Pronoun?: she Relationship Status: Married Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: rose cottage Posts: 5,592 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 8,948 Thanked 15,908 Times in 4,062 Posts Rep Power*: 21474857	On another site, I acted as a "buddy" for someone who had very poor social skills, could not read or chose not to read social cues and was sexually inappropriate to the point of making people so uncomfortable they considered calling in the police. I offered to be their buddy to help them not get kicked off the site. I was SO stupid! What I found out after awhile was this was much larger than what was being presented, and all that was being presented as DA wasnt necessarily DA. At least not in the diagnosis given. (There has to be some reason for someone created that much drama and crisis to get attention. ) I stepped back and took a good look at the interaction of this person with everyone. There was a definite pattern. I did an intervention online with this person and basically became a target of theirs afterwards. But at least I was out of their loop of frenzy... The reason I bring this up, is that by attempting to help someone socialize in a group setting, by offering a buddy to help out, makes the buddy responsible (and thus the admins and mods as well as the "buddy") and if this person who is aided escalates or becomes confrontational or hostile to the cueing, and decides to act out and harms someone, the buddy and admins and mods will be set up for liability since they took the responsibility. I realized after my personal experience just how scared I should have been. Sometimes, what you see online is only the tip of the ice burg.... and also, people hide diagnosis ...and some will self-assign diagnosis without therapeutic assignment. Just because it quacks like a duck doesnt mean its not a chicken in duck's feathers... I like the idea of an ambassador where someone can GO to the ambassador if they need help but I am really opposed to a Buddy goes to them and walks them thru their postings and interactions and watches out for their inappropriate behaviors. Makes me very uneasy... __________________ Pole bachit, a lis chuye. The field sees, the forest hears

07-20-2010, 11:17 PM	#5
violaine Timed Out How Do You Identify?: atypical Preferred Pronoun?: plague words and phrases Relationship Status: love wise guys of the avian world Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: wekiva springs basin Posts: 3,236 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 9,934 Thanked 3,293 Times in 1,301 Posts Rep Power: 0	[QUOTE=SuperFemme;157752]I would like to reiterate this: Nobody is being asked to change. Or to "grow their capacity". I want that to be very clear. Asking people to work with the capacity that they already have is not asking anyone to change. It is not asking people to suddenly have a greater capacity. Simply to work with what you've got. Also, I would like to once more be super clear about what the "Mythical Pass" is that I am referring to. Because I feel that the definition keeps getting lost. Mythical Pass = not requiring a differently abled person to follow the rules. A pass is NOT about giving somebody leeway. N''ot about choosing to act/interact with a person when concerns come up. Not about abandoning the empathy & compassion with which the admin/owner treat everyone with. Not a witch hunt. Not about advocating (or not) for another member. I hear the AS members and their concerns. There is no agenda, and nobody is complaining about you. Nor asking you to change. I feel like this pass issue has struck a chord that is not positive. SuperFemme, i was thinking about something- when you write that the 'definition keeps getting lost' and/or the pass issue has 'struck a negative chord' - i'm wondering if it's because there are other DA people in this thread, and not everyone will see things the way you see/comprehend them? i probably will not/cannot process exactly the same as another aspie- but we may have a better understanding of things we try to communicate between ourselves, due to at least, some of the AT wiring. maybe i have the most reasons/times for editing [smile]. does this make sense? Last edited by violaine; 07-20-2010 at 11:25 PM.

07-22-2010, 07:59 AM	#7
Apocalipstic Pink Confection How Do You Identify?: Femme Preferred Pronoun?: She, Her, Ma'am Relationship Status: Dating Myself Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Nashville Posts: 4,266 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 17,195 Thanked 11,362 Times in 2,838 Posts Rep Power: 21474856	I do think that is someone wanted to help and be a buddy it should be someone of the same gender. I think wayyy less confusion would happen that way. and Don't give out your phone numbers and adresses to anyone! __________________

07-22-2010, 11:09 AM	#8
SoftSilver Infamous Member How Do You Identify?: femme Preferred Pronoun?: she Relationship Status: Married Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: rose cottage Posts: 5,592 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 8,948 Thanked 15,908 Times in 4,062 Posts Rep Power*: 21474857	I think gender has little to do with it. __________________ Pole bachit, a lis chuye. The field sees, the forest hears

07-20-2010, 10:28 PM	#4
SuperFemme Timed Out How Do You Identify?: Permanently Banned 10/24/2010 Preferred Pronoun?: She. Relationship Status: Married (one of 18,000) Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Atascadero, CA Posts: 4,933 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 2,309 Thanked 7,108 Times in 2,327 Posts Rep Power: 0	I would like to reiterate this: Nobody is being asked to change. Or to "grow their capacity". I want that to be very clear. Asking people to work with the capacity that they already have is not asking anyone to change. It is not asking people to suddenly have a greater capacity. Simply to work with what you've got. Also, I would like to once more be super clear about what the "Mythical Pass" is that I am referring to. Because I feel that the definition keeps getting lost. Mythical Pass = not requiring a differently abled person to follow the rules. A pass is NOT about giving somebody leeway. Not about choosing to act/interact with a person when concerns come up. Not about abandoning the empathy & compassion with which the admin/owner treat everyone with. Not a witch hunt. Not about advocating (or not) for another member. I hear the AS members and their concerns. There is no agenda, and nobody is complaining about you. Nor asking you to change. I feel like this pass issue has struck a chord that is not positive. I am also not demanding people come to me for anything. I am here should anyone choose to do that, but please, feel free to look to your peers or whomever it may be that can be of assistance. Hell go right to the mods/admins if you have an issue. But please? Don't not go to anyone. If something is not addressed, it can not be changed. Softness? I wanted to thank you for sharing your experience, that was really valuable information. I'm so sorry you had to go through that. But? It sounds like you have done the hard work around it and that it won't easily happen again. That is success. Anyone that does feel ok about coming to me? Pls know that you can do so for any number of reasons. My goal is to make sure that the site is aware of any changes needed, and that we have proper outreach to differently abled members.