Male ID butch vs. FTM??

[Corkey]

Originally Posted by BullDog

Yes, perhaps it may be more applicable when applied to male butches/FTMs, although I think there are plenty of FTMs and perhaps also male id'd butches who don't consider themselves to be third gender or transgender.

You may be correct, but so is Dapper. That's the beauty of each individual having their say in how they perceive themselves.

When trying to pidgin hole a group there's bound to be those who refuse to comply. YEY! There are no set ground rules, no set in stone ways of being. To each their own.

[BullDog]

Originally Posted by Corkey

You may be correct, but so is Dapper. That's the beauty of each individual having their say in how they perceive themselves.

When trying to pidgin hole a group there's bound to be those who refuse to comply. YEY! There are no set ground rules, no set in stone ways of being. To each their own.

I just don't think butches are inherently third gender. That is all. I don't even think Dapper necessarily thinks that either. So I never did have a quarrel with Dapper.

Inherent means an essential characteristic, so no, I would say not true about all butches, but may be truer for more male id'd butches but not all. I am not sure what the third in third gender is supposed to be referring to. I think there are lots more than just three genders (woman, man, butch, femme, etc etc).

[Corkey]

Originally Posted by BullDog

I just don't think butches are inherently third gender. That is all. I don't even think Dapper necessarily thinks that either. So I never did have a quarrel with Dapper.

Inherent means an essential characteristic, so no, I would say not true about all butches, but may be truer for more male id'd butches but not all. I am not sure what the third in third gender is supposed to be referring to. I think there are lots more than just three genders (woman, man, butch, femme, etc etc).

Oh Bully there are many more, that you don't know of them is something I think you will have to investigate on your own. Inherently... in the context of this thread I don't find issue with. Remember you are talking to and about those with whom you don't identify. Our since of self will be much different that yours. Just as mine is different than an Lesbian ID'd Female Butch. I think you and I have had this discussion before, yes? Just because the english dictionary doesn't have the words, doesn't mean there aren't other words in another language, some not spoken that have more definition than what we in the US use.

[BullDog]

Originally Posted by Corkey

Oh Bully there are many more, that you don't know of them is something I think you will have to investigate on your own. Inherently... in the context of this thread I don't find issue with. Remember you are talking to and about those with whom you don't identify. Our since of self will be much different that yours. Just as mine is different than an Lesbian ID'd Female Butch. I think you and I have had this discussion before, yes? Just because the english dictionary doesn't have the words, doesn't mean there aren't other words in another language, some not spoken that have more definition than what we in the US use.

Corkey I don't understand what your issue is with me. Not all butches are third gender, not all third gender are butches. That is all.

[Corkey]

Originally Posted by BullDog

Corkey I don't understand what your issue is with me. Not all butches are third gender, not all third gender are butches. That is all.

Bully I have no issue with you, I have issue with you coming on a male ID'd thread and insisting we look at butch in only your way. You are trying to put words in folks mouths that aren't there. Yes, Bully there are more identities than you know of, not all are anything and no one here has said as much. Breathe. There are no IMPERATIVES when understanding humanity.

[BullDog]

Originally Posted by Corkey

Bully I have no issue with you, I have issue with you coming on a male ID'd thread and insisting we look at butch in only your way. You are trying to put words in folks mouths that aren't there. Yes, Bully there are more identities than you know of, not all are anything and no one here has said as much. Breathe. There are no IMPERATIVES when understanding humanity.

No Corkey, I am not insisting people look at butch in my way. Not all butches are third gender and there are more than three genders. For those who identify with the term they are free to do so.

[Corkey]

Originally Posted by BullDog

No Corkey, I am not insisting people look at butch in my way. Not all butches are third gender and there are more than three genders. For those who identify with the term they are free to do so.

Bully no one said there was, do you have a tape running in your head from another thread, where are you coming from? This is a ring around and it's getting boring. No Bully not every, not ALL not even a majority...feel better? Remember it's a spectrum and some do and some are and some will be.

[Thinker]

Originally Posted by Corkey

Far from pissed but thank you Thinker.

Originally Posted by SelfMadeMan

Not pissed at all - never was

Sorry to be away so long but wanted to make sure I followed up on this...

I'm glad to hear no one was really "pissed". However, there was definitely some heat in here as well as some not-so-kind exchanges.

I'm glad to see things have gotten back on a positive track; lots of us are.

All we ask is that everyone continue to discuss very personal and important issues such as identities with respect, compassion, and understanding.

Thinker (moderating)

[Corkey]

Moving on.. I find it really sad that someone who has been involved with this conversation from the beginning has to unsubscribe from it...