Male ID Butch, Femme, FTM, MTF & the Intergendered- Open thread to All Members

SuperFemme · 09-03-2010, 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AtLastHome

This thread is for anyone, of any identity to post thoughts about any form of transitioning (to male or masculine/ or, to woman or feminine), including intergendered individuals who retain Butch or Femme as an identifier and are faced with gender changing medical procedure decisions.

Gender variations reach many levels and personal interpretations. Feel free to post your interpretations.

This is the OP, and I too am confused as to the purpose.

Is this a place where anyone can extrapolate on transitioning? Specifically people who are not transitioning?

Toughy · 09-03-2010, 05:34 PM

I have only read the title. I am tired of titles with so and so vs so and so. It implies conflict. It is not what this site is striving to achieve.

I will now read what has been posted.

Toughy · 09-03-2010, 05:41 PM

I see other folks have the same feeling.

Frankly AtLast..............I could not even read your posts and responses. My brain started glazing over. And it's not about you personally............it's about the blah blah blah I was reading that made my mind go all fuzzy and irritated.

If you want to talk about the overall aspects of transitioning from a psycho-social perspective then your title gets no where near that.

If you want us to talk about our personal journeys in transitioning to the different periods of our lives, then say so.

If you want to talk about transgressing gender and chromosomal norms, then say so.

Please stop this us and them kind of set-up. You know better.

edited to add: I'm not posting anything in this thread about my personal journey. I suggest we all let this thread die and I do mean die. Perhaps AtLast can start another thread with a different premise than so and so VS so and so.

AtLast · 09-03-2010, 07:29 PM

I'm fine with letting it die.

What I do find fascinating is that it is fine and dandy for the topic to be discussed in the Trans Zone with the same terms in the title. And to the exclusion of other identities.

I am fine with criticism of not making the op more clear. Anyone that wants to remain on these sites does need to develop a thick skin and leave sensitivity behind. That's OK. I am not fine with double standards and exclusion.

I guess admin/mods can close a thread. Don't have a problem at all if that is what they want to do.

I also feel very misread, but, I'll get over that. The only thing I should have know better about is that these types of discussions are better off-line in organizations that offer support for a multidimentional gender community to feel safe to discuss these kinds of issues together as one. I am so glad that I have this sort of organization available to me in real-time and the people representing all identities around me.

Let it die.... what the hell...

Toughy · 09-03-2010, 07:37 PM

This discussion CAN happen on-line. The premise however must not be a vs concept. The vs concept sets up confrontation whether it be on-line or off-line.

Perhaps it is your OP that was the last straw concerning the vs concept. If the vs thing stops because of this thread then you did a good thing...........whether or not that was your intention.

waxnrope · 09-03-2010, 07:42 PM

Toughy, your pm box is full! Lol
We now return to our regularly scheduled program ....

Toughy · 09-03-2010, 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by waxnrope

Toughy, your pm box is full! Lol
We now return to our regularly scheduled program ....

right this moment it is not full.............I can't speak to an hour from now..........laughin........

AtLast...........how about you start this convo over in a new thread. I think I know what you want to talk about. I and many other went all twitchy about the vs. Maybe you have prompted us to be aware of the vs and to find ways to be inclusive. Dig my friend. Reframe the question without the othering dynamic in a new thread.

AtLast · 09-03-2010, 07:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toughy

This discussion CAN happen on-line. The premise however must not be a vs concept. The vs concept sets up confrontation whether it be on-line or off-line.

Perhaps it is your OP that was the last straw concerning the vs concept. If the vs thing stops because of this thread then you did a good thing...........whether or not that was your intention.

Here is my concern at the moment, Toughy. I agree that my opening post was not well written in terms of what I was trying to get at even though the very same words were used in the other thread (which I thought would be evident- my mistake). Due to how it is being misread, I think the whole premise is lost and will remain stuck in semantics even though I explained what was going on.

I asked that it be closed. If the thread is going to be negative to the site, especially in a subject area that just is a sensitive one, it is better for it to be closed. I am fine with accepting my op was not clear and that the title bothered some folks. But, why did't the very same concept offend people in the other thread from the very start? Doesn't really matter at this point. I don't think what I was trying to get at will be discussed here and maybe someone else can get the discussion going in another manner. It's all good.

You know, there have been many times in threads over the years I have been part of B-F sites that I could not understand. sometimes that has been due to grammar or circular thoughts and also to just not being familiar with jargon or a particular vein of thought. Can be lots of things. I do what Snow did, just say I don't get it and ask for clarification, not get defensive and think that the OP has some ulterior motive (no this is not aimed at you).

This is just goofed-up and why let it go on? My sense is that it just isn't going to benefit the site in any way. Best to have it closed and go on.

09-03-2010, 05:34 PM	#2
Toughy Senior Member How Do You Identify?: pervert butch feminist woman Preferred Pronoun?: see above Relationship Status: independent entity Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Oakland Posts: 1,826 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 4,068 Thanked 7,654 Times in 1,523 Posts Rep Power: 21474853	I have only read the title. I am tired of titles with so and so vs so and so. It implies conflict. It is not what this site is striving to achieve. I will now read what has been posted. __________________ We are everywhere We are different I do not care if resistance is futile I will not assimilate www.butchfemmesocials.com/

09-03-2010, 05:41 PM	#3
Toughy Senior Member How Do You Identify?: pervert butch feminist woman Preferred Pronoun?: see above Relationship Status: independent entity Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Oakland Posts: 1,826 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 4,068 Thanked 7,654 Times in 1,523 Posts Rep Power: 21474853	I see other folks have the same feeling. Frankly AtLast..............I could not even read your posts and responses. My brain started glazing over. And it's not about you personally............it's about the blah blah blah I was reading that made my mind go all fuzzy and irritated. If you want to talk about the overall aspects of transitioning from a psycho-social perspective then your title gets no where near that. If you want us to talk about our personal journeys in transitioning to the different periods of our lives, then say so. If you want to talk about transgressing gender and chromosomal norms, then say so. Please stop this us and them kind of set-up. You know better. edited to add: I'm not posting anything in this thread about my personal journey. I suggest we all let this thread die and I do mean die. Perhaps AtLast can start another thread with a different premise than so and so VS so and so. __________________ We are everywhere We are different I do not care if resistance is futile I will not assimilate www.butchfemmesocials.com/

09-03-2010, 07:37 PM	#5
Toughy Senior Member How Do You Identify?: pervert butch feminist woman Preferred Pronoun?: see above Relationship Status: independent entity Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Oakland Posts: 1,826 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 4,068 Thanked 7,654 Times in 1,523 Posts Rep Power: 21474853	This discussion CAN happen on-line. The premise however must not be a vs concept. The vs concept sets up confrontation whether it be on-line or off-line. Perhaps it is your OP that was the last straw concerning the vs concept. If the vs thing stops because of this thread then you did a good thing...........whether or not that was your intention. __________________ We are everywhere We are different I do not care if resistance is futile I will not assimilate www.butchfemmesocials.com/

09-03-2010, 07:29 PM	#4
AtLast Infamous Member How Do You Identify?: Woman Preferred Pronoun?: HER - SHE Relationship Status: Relating Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: CA & AZ I'm a Snowbird Posts: 5,408 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 11,826 Thanked 10,827 Times in 3,199 Posts Rep Power: 21474857	I'm fine with letting it die. What I do find fascinating is that it is fine and dandy for the topic to be discussed in the Trans Zone with the same terms in the title. And to the exclusion of other identities. I am fine with criticism of not making the op more clear. Anyone that wants to remain on these sites does need to develop a thick skin and leave sensitivity behind. That's OK. I am not fine with double standards and exclusion. I guess admin/mods can close a thread. Don't have a problem at all if that is what they want to do. I also feel very misread, but, I'll get over that. The only thing I should have know better about is that these types of discussions are better off-line in organizations that offer support for a multidimentional gender community to feel safe to discuss these kinds of issues together as one. I am so glad that I have this sort of organization available to me in real-time and the people representing all identities around me. Let it die.... what the hell...

09-03-2010, 07:42 PM	#6
waxnrope Timed Out How Do You Identify?: Permanently Banned 5/27/2011 Preferred Pronoun?: hy ho, hy ho; he, she, it, whatever Relationship Status: Going slow ... Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: in her orifices ... la frontera Posts: 1,433 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 6,414 Thanked 2,957 Times in 952 Posts Rep Power: 0	Toughy, your pm box is full! Lol We now return to our regularly scheduled program ....