Forgiveness

Venus007 · 09-25-2010, 09:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dark_crystal

My forgiveness process has consisted of accepting her in me, and learning to value those qualities objectively

Oooh I needed to hear that little part right there. For me that has been one of the hardest things, to move forward enough to embrace the objectively good qualities planted in me by my family members who have wronged me. I WANT to throw the baby out with the bath water, it is so much easier.
As I integrate the parts of myself that I see are similar and formed by my abuser AND objectively valuable it helps to bring peace to the process, at least for me.

Thank you for saying this

Venus007 · 10-03-2010, 08:18 AM

What are your thoughts on forgiveness?
Forgiveness is very tightly tied to the idea of acceptance. There is nothing I can do to change the past or the things I perceive as negative that happened to me. I can only accept that they happened, attempt to integrate them into myself and move on. This is a process and in some examples it has and does take many years in my life to process and to move to acceptance. I have to practice mindfulness and to consistently put down the anger, resentment, bitterness, etc that being harmed has caused me, it is something I have to do daily, hell hourly in some cases. I have to return and return and return to opening my hand, to not clinging to my ego and my ego’s pain, I am strong enough and expansive enough to release the pain of my harm and forgive my antagonist.

What does forgiveness mean to you?
Releasing to verifying levels of success, the anger and resentment surrounding instances where in my estimation I have been wronged. Forgiveness does not mean condoning the behavior that occurred, nor does it necessarily mean that the individual who wronged me will be allowed back into my life if they are toxic.

What does it feel like to you?
Sometimes forgiveness feels like a betrayal to my ego. Sometimes it feels like a bitter, hard thing. Sometimes it feels like a release of a weight pressing down on me. Sometimes it doesn’t feel like anything.

Do you have methods or rituals of forgiveness?
I have a few as out of necessity I have had to practice much forgiveness in my life.
One is to write an event that I experienced that I need to extend forgiveness for down from my antagonist’s eyes. This helps me see what they were experiencing.

I also say “I forgive you” to people who apologize to me. I am trying to move away from the nondescript and relatively meaningless (to me) “that’s okay” because sometimes it is most certainly NOT ok. To use the words in a formal way helps me process, saying “I forgive you” or “I grant you forgiveness” adds a gravitas that sometimes is called for.

For big things and deep past wounds a formal ritual I practice for viewing with compassion for the person who wronged me is to visualize the person who wronged me as a child before life and time corrupted them and caused them to harm me. I do this visualization while looking into the flame of a white candle for many nights starting at the new moon and lasting until the full moon. Then I write a letter to the person who wronged me expressing my forgiveness and compassion (even if that forgiveness and compassion is small, hard and rudimentary). I then take the candle, the letter and anything else I think I need to include and throw it into a moving body of water and walk away without turning back or I burn it completely.

Do you feel there are times when forgiveness is not an option?
I feel that there are times when my ego throws a fit about the harm that came to me because it doesn’t want to release its pain, but ultimately I must practice forgiveness for myself. If I choose not to forgive and to hoard the wrongs against me I am poisoning myself. In order for me to move on and not give those who harmed me any more power in my life I need to remove them as they harmed me from my mind and from my heart, I must let them go from me. They are not treasure to be kept or goodness to be savored but rough lessons to be learned. By choosing not to forgive I am allowing those who harmed me continuing power and pain in my life and to me that is not acceptable.

Do you forgive frequently or rarely?
Frequently

Do you forgive yourself?
This is a hard one for me. I have to practice letting go of things that I am inclined to be unforgiving of, daily, and hourly. I must practice the same compassion and unattachment for myself that I extend to others, this can be a pisser.

Do you seek forgiveness for things you regret?
For things I regret I try to make amends and I express to the individual I have wronged my apology. I cannot cause someone else to confer grace or forgiveness to me, I can only (and am only responsible for by the way) being honest about what I did to them that hurt them and being sincerely remorseful or regretful about the wrong doing. It is their business to choose or not choose forgiveness for me and I cannot cause that to happen.

If you have kids or have young people in your life, what do/would you teach them about forgiveness?
That although it is hard it leads to freedom from past injuries and that to refuse forgiveness can make them soul-sick. I would also teach them any techniques that work for me.

Any other thoughts on forgiveness?
Forgiveness is not the same as condoning what then individual did to you that wronged you. There are ways I have been harmed in my life that were empirically wrong and could be called evil. My forgiveness does nothing to diminish that, it only releases me, my soul, my ego, myself from squirreling away the resentment and ongoing pain from that injustice so I may move forward and not define myself by the ill that happened to me but by the substance of my life that is greater than an event (or series of events).

dark_crystal · 10-03-2010, 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Venus007

For big things and deep past wounds a formal ritual I practice for viewing with compassion for the person who wronged me is to visualize the person who wronged me as a child before life and time corrupted them and caused them to harm me.

i use this strategy a lot, and not neccessarily for forgiveness- i work with some really dysfunctional people and it helps my aggravation level with them when i superimpose their adult behavior on a mental image of them as a child. Sometimes the only way i get through supervisors meeting is by turning the entire board room into a nursery

Soft*Silver · 08-10-2012, 11:59 PM

there is a difference between holding onto a resentment and not forgiving someone.

I wont hold onto resentments anymore because frankly, I dont want to drink. I drank over resentments and none of them were worth the price I paid. All my fault. I knew better.

But forgiving them for what they did to me? No. Not going to happen. Small matters, yes, no problem. I can forgive almost anyone for anything, because frankly, its all small shit in the course of a lifetime. But every once in awhile, there is a Big Thing. I can analyze it, understand why they did it, pray for them, but I still will not forgive them IF forgiveness is not warranted.

sometimes forgiveness is NOT warranted.

I grew up in an era where we were told to continually praise kids, award them ribbons for showing up, give them parades for ordinary conduct to boost self esteem. We ended up with a generation of self indulgent narcissistic lil monsters.

Same with forgiveness. You know, sometimes people do shit that is just NOT right. Earlier I read in another thread about teens who bowled over an octogenarian war hero...punks. Oh boy. I need to forgive them for being assholes. Really? And this makes them a better person because they have my forgiveness. Maybe I can understand why they did it. So friggin what? I can have compassion for them over why, but honey, I am not about to forgive someone who does that to an old man.

and while I agree with Princess Belle about forgiveness being a gift I give myself, I hold firm to the gift I give those I dont forgive..and thats natural consequences. Hurt me until my soul spiritually bleeds and I will never forgive you. I wont carry a resentment around forever, but I wont forgive you. Live with what you did to me forever. If you earned it, you deserve it. What you did is about YOU, not me and i wont get eaten up by it, by not forgiving you. Your asshat behavior is yours. Its not my toxins. Its YOURS>

Again, most of the time, 99% of the time, I forgive people. But some blacksouled people will bear eternally their natural consequence to who they are and what they did to me.

Nomad · 08-19-2012, 07:29 PM

forgiving others isnt difficult. forgiving myself isnt easy. i've lived down to plenty of sub standard standards in my un-better self days. i find that i'm likely to need forgiveness more than any amount of forgiving i've done or could do. fortunately for me everyone grows up eventually, if for no other reason than to engage in living the rest of life without causing so much pain.

10-03-2010, 08:18 AM	#2
Venus007 Member How Do You Identify?: Femme Preferred Pronoun?: Serene Highness ;} Relationship Status: Dreamily contemplating some outrage against conventional morality Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Houston area Posts: 1,362 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 1,417 Thanked 4,749 Times in 1,139 Posts Rep Power: 21474853	Bitter liberating pill What are your thoughts on forgiveness? Forgiveness is very tightly tied to the idea of acceptance. There is nothing I can do to change the past or the things I perceive as negative that happened to me. I can only accept that they happened, attempt to integrate them into myself and move on. This is a process and in some examples it has and does take many years in my life to process and to move to acceptance. I have to practice mindfulness and to consistently put down the anger, resentment, bitterness, etc that being harmed has caused me, it is something I have to do daily, hell hourly in some cases. I have to return and return and return to opening my hand, to not clinging to my ego and my ego’s pain, I am strong enough and expansive enough to release the pain of my harm and forgive my antagonist. What does forgiveness mean to you? Releasing to verifying levels of success, the anger and resentment surrounding instances where in my estimation I have been wronged. Forgiveness does not mean condoning the behavior that occurred, nor does it necessarily mean that the individual who wronged me will be allowed back into my life if they are toxic. What does it feel like to you? Sometimes forgiveness feels like a betrayal to my ego. Sometimes it feels like a bitter, hard thing. Sometimes it feels like a release of a weight pressing down on me. Sometimes it doesn’t feel like anything. Do you have methods or rituals of forgiveness? I have a few as out of necessity I have had to practice much forgiveness in my life. One is to write an event that I experienced that I need to extend forgiveness for down from my antagonist’s eyes. This helps me see what they were experiencing. I also say “I forgive you” to people who apologize to me. I am trying to move away from the nondescript and relatively meaningless (to me) “that’s okay” because sometimes it is most certainly NOT ok. To use the words in a formal way helps me process, saying “I forgive you” or “I grant you forgiveness” adds a gravitas that sometimes is called for. For big things and deep past wounds a formal ritual I practice for viewing with compassion for the person who wronged me is to visualize the person who wronged me as a child before life and time corrupted them and caused them to harm me. I do this visualization while looking into the flame of a white candle for many nights starting at the new moon and lasting until the full moon. Then I write a letter to the person who wronged me expressing my forgiveness and compassion (even if that forgiveness and compassion is small, hard and rudimentary). I then take the candle, the letter and anything else I think I need to include and throw it into a moving body of water and walk away without turning back or I burn it completely. Do you feel there are times when forgiveness is not an option? I feel that there are times when my ego throws a fit about the harm that came to me because it doesn’t want to release its pain, but ultimately I must practice forgiveness for myself. If I choose not to forgive and to hoard the wrongs against me I am poisoning myself. In order for me to move on and not give those who harmed me any more power in my life I need to remove them as they harmed me from my mind and from my heart, I must let them go from me. They are not treasure to be kept or goodness to be savored but rough lessons to be learned. By choosing not to forgive I am allowing those who harmed me continuing power and pain in my life and to me that is not acceptable. Do you forgive frequently or rarely? Frequently Do you forgive yourself? This is a hard one for me. I have to practice letting go of things that I am inclined to be unforgiving of, daily, and hourly. I must practice the same compassion and unattachment for myself that I extend to others, this can be a pisser. Do you seek forgiveness for things you regret? For things I regret I try to make amends and I express to the individual I have wronged my apology. I cannot cause someone else to confer grace or forgiveness to me, I can only (and am only responsible for by the way) being honest about what I did to them that hurt them and being sincerely remorseful or regretful about the wrong doing. It is their business to choose or not choose forgiveness for me and I cannot cause that to happen. If you have kids or have young people in your life, what do/would you teach them about forgiveness? That although it is hard it leads to freedom from past injuries and that to refuse forgiveness can make them soul-sick. I would also teach them any techniques that work for me. Any other thoughts on forgiveness? Forgiveness is not the same as condoning what then individual did to you that wronged you. There are ways I have been harmed in my life that were empirically wrong and could be called evil. My forgiveness does nothing to diminish that, it only releases me, my soul, my ego, myself from squirreling away the resentment and ongoing pain from that injustice so I may move forward and not define myself by the ill that happened to me but by the substance of my life that is greater than an event (or series of events). __________________ . "I need no warrant for being, and no word of sanction upon my being. I am the warrant and the sanction. " Ayn Rand, Anthem "So you'll die happily for your sins. You'd rather die in guilt then live in love?" Timothy Leary

08-10-2012, 11:59 PM	#4
SoftSilver Infamous Member How Do You Identify?: femme Preferred Pronoun?: she Relationship Status: Married Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: rose cottage Posts: 5,592 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 8,948 Thanked 15,904 Times in 4,062 Posts Rep Power*: 21474857	there is a difference between holding onto a resentment and not forgiving someone. I wont hold onto resentments anymore because frankly, I dont want to drink. I drank over resentments and none of them were worth the price I paid. All my fault. I knew better. But forgiving them for what they did to me? No. Not going to happen. Small matters, yes, no problem. I can forgive almost anyone for anything, because frankly, its all small shit in the course of a lifetime. But every once in awhile, there is a Big Thing. I can analyze it, understand why they did it, pray for them, but I still will not forgive them IF forgiveness is not warranted. sometimes forgiveness is NOT warranted. I grew up in an era where we were told to continually praise kids, award them ribbons for showing up, give them parades for ordinary conduct to boost self esteem. We ended up with a generation of self indulgent narcissistic lil monsters. Same with forgiveness. You know, sometimes people do shit that is just NOT right. Earlier I read in another thread about teens who bowled over an octogenarian war hero...punks. Oh boy. I need to forgive them for being assholes. Really? And this makes them a better person because they have my forgiveness. Maybe I can understand why they did it. So friggin what? I can have compassion for them over why, but honey, I am not about to forgive someone who does that to an old man. and while I agree with Princess Belle about forgiveness being a gift I give myself, I hold firm to the gift I give those I dont forgive..and thats natural consequences. Hurt me until my soul spiritually bleeds and I will never forgive you. I wont carry a resentment around forever, but I wont forgive you. Live with what you did to me forever. If you earned it, you deserve it. What you did is about YOU, not me and i wont get eaten up by it, by not forgiving you. Your asshat behavior is yours. Its not my toxins. Its YOURS> Again, most of the time, 99% of the time, I forgive people. But some blacksouled people will bear eternally their natural consequence to who they are and what they did to me. __________________ Pole bachit, a lis chuye. The field sees, the forest hears

08-19-2012, 07:29 PM	#5
Nomad Timed Out How Do You Identify?: stone femme Daddy's girl Preferred Pronoun?: she/her Relationship Status: disinterested Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: in my head Posts: 991 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 5,848 Thanked 3,745 Times in 734 Posts Rep Power: 0	forgiving others isnt difficult. forgiving myself isnt easy. i've lived down to plenty of sub standard standards in my un-better self days. i find that i'm likely to need forgiveness more than any amount of forgiving i've done or could do. fortunately for me everyone grows up eventually, if for no other reason than to engage in living the rest of life without causing so much pain.