The Ultimate Backpack: Unpacking your own Male Privilege

[Linus]

Little man: I've been rethinking this all day to see if I could come up with a more realistic example but have been unable. And considering as well the other comments, I've been reconsidering my comment. I'm beginning to think that the ability to remove WMP and give it to others may be too optimistic by me. So I apologize for the disagreement of privilege being returned. I think I'll be thinking about this more over the holidays to see if I can come to a better idea or concept of how to address this, particularly from a personal point of view.


Thank you to everyone for the comments and pointing out the patronizing attitude/idea I had come up with. It is, to me, a sign of my own privilege that comes through at times and a realization as to the amount of self-work I still need to yet do. I am very grateful that I am, at least, able to muddle my way through it and hopefully figure it out at some point.

And thank for participating in this thread.

[Linus]

I have to thank Heart for mention Paul Kivel. He has some interesting articles on privilge (http://www.paulkivel.com/articles.php). Although 10 years old, the article Angry Young White Men is certainly interesting. It does highlight something that should be changed: how we educate young people on the history of this continent. It shouldn't be from the PoV of the conqueror but of all. Zinn's History of America comes to mind.

[little man]

Originally Posted by Linus

I have to thank Heart for mention Paul Kivel. He has some interesting articles on privilge (http://www.paulkivel.com/articles.php). Although 10 years old, the article Angry Young White Men is certainly interesting. It does highlight something that should be changed: how we educate young people on the history of this continent. It shouldn't be from the PoV of the conqueror but of all. Zinn's History of America comes to mind.

"to the victor goes the spoils"

that also, unfortunately, includes the right to write history from their perspective.

i've long thought that it's a damn shame there isn't a requirement for objective, factual reporting. but, humans being what they are, it'll never happen.

thanks for the linkage.

[Dylan]

Guilt doesn't level a playing field

Guilt also keeps the attention on the one with the privilege and NOT on the less privileged...which (again) is privileged


If Ya' Got It, Ya' Got It...Own It And Move On, So You Can Do Something With It Instead Of Wallowing That You Got It,
Dylan

[Linus]

*bumpity bump* May be worthwhile to move some of the discussion from elsewhere to here.

[Medusa]

I'll start by saying that, from where I'm sitting as a Femme, I do not see Transmale and genetic male privilege as the same, nor does it feel the same to me as a Femme when it is exerted in my presence.

[little man]

Originally Posted by Medusa

I'll start by saying that, from where I'm sitting as a Femme, I do not see Transmale and genetic male privilege as the same, nor does it feel the same to me as a Femme when it is exerted in my presence.

do you think that might be based in either a lack of or a different sort of sense of entitlement?

[Turtle]

A person may do different things with privilege - and the power that goes with it - some of may favorites being:

Notice it - be aware that you are being given undeserved benefits.

Name it - Say it loud so others may hear it, just like Linus did - "These women were here first, it's not fair to take me before them." Have meeting minders, whose job it is to note who has spoken, how many times, and for how long (often without being interupted) because if folks are not being mindful the men in the room speak way more and are interrupted way less than the women - in the beginning of noting the numbers are huge.

Share it....and give it away - when you have a place at the privilege table, ask for other opinions, ask that the group recruit POC, Queer, female, youth etc. board members, employees, or whatever.


Story - One of my favorite professors (usually presenting as male) would dress in Muslim attire. Other Muslim men would tell him that he didn't have to dress "that" way, only the sisters had to. Whereupon he would tell them that the Qu'ran says that everyone should dress modestly, if they want the women to dress that way, they should , too.

[COLOR="RoyalBlue"]Some other stuff:
The Testosterone Show on This American Life had many interesting things said but at this moment thinking about Linus' mention of privilege and different dynamics one of the transguys on the show talks about after he began passing as a male, he noticed getting shoulders thrown at him while walking on the street in New York City, something which never happened as a female.

Additionally, in the film "The Believers" about the Transcendence Gospel Choir - a white transguy admits to liking his newly acquired privilege and in the background you can see the disproval of other folks in the choir, many of whom are POC and male-to-female transfolk. /COLOR]

Just some thoughts.

[DapperButch]

Originally Posted by Medusa

I'll start by saying that, from where I'm sitting as a Femme, I do not see Transmale and genetic male privilege as the same, nor does it feel the same to me as a Femme when it is exerted in my presence.

I would love to hear more of your thoughts on this. Your thinking often stretches mine.

[Quintease]

This thread reminds me of Ben Barr, an FTM scientist. After a talk, a member of the audience apparently said - “Ben Barres gave a great talk today…his work is much better than his sister’s.” Only Ben Barr doesn't have a sister.

[Evan]

Originally Posted by Quintease

This thread reminds me of Ben Barr, an FTM scientist. After a talk, a member of the audience apparently said - “Ben Barres gave a great talk today…his work is much better than his sister’s.” Only Ben Barr doesn't have a sister.

That phenomenon has occured for several people in several environments. "He's far better in this positioin than that woman we fired"- same person , same job, post-transition. "The research was far superior than the unscholarly work "x" tried to submit" -Exact same research, submitted under male name, post transition .

Of course it also happens the other way around too.
"x " was always hilarious. Not like this misogynistic prick " -Same person , same joke, post transition.....
And that really sucks.

[Thinker]

Article on one transguy's thoughts on and experiences with heteronormative privilege...

http://www.autostraddle.com/hello-te...ivilege-87896/

[Linus]

Nice find, Thinker! I was particularly struck by this:

When you’re visibly queer you have what women’s studies professor Daphne Patai first labeled “surplus visibility.” Essentially, when a space has long been dominated by one group of people (heterosexuals in this example), any minority presence (the queers!) appears excessive, gathers a great deal of attention, and is often deemed offensive by members of the majority. For example, while a man and a woman holding hands often go completely unnoticed by passers-by, two women holding hands are always seen.

Once I started living as a man and transitioned to be seen as one by the rest of the world, I lost all visible queerness in my relationships and dating. And I lost this surplus visibility. For the first time since I was in high school, I could blend in. I didn’t have to be seen. Me holding hands with the girl I was dating didn’t mean something bigger than an acknowledgement between the two of us that we liked each other; it wasn’t a political statement; no one found it offensive.

Bold and emphasis by me. I had never heard of "surplus visibility" but it does make sense. And very true.

[MickMan]

Newbie to this site but I have to say I am really enjoying this thread.

I am transmale. Started my transition in 2004. I pass 100% and have only had one surgery, but I have to say it is such a different life.

I completely agree that I am treated with respect, dignity and kindness. I see people do such kind things for me that I would have never received back prior to 2004 and it astonishes me at exactly HOW differently it is.

I take care of my mom who has Alzheimer's. I am praised every time someone hears about it. But, there are many women who do the same and rarely get any thanks. I am thanked for the things I use to do that went unnoticed.

It is crazy.

[Linus]

Mickman, welcome!

It is weird to receive those accolades when you know that others do it. Have you ever challenged someone when they praise you but not others, particularly women?

[MickMan]

Originally Posted by Linus

Mickman, welcome!

It is weird to receive those accolades when you know that others do it. Have you ever challenged someone when they praise you but not others, particularly women?

Thanks for the welcome.

Yes, I have said something like, "There are many who do what I do, lots of women care for their parents." The reply is usually something like; but they are women and are expected to care for them.

I often try to make light and remind them that many women do thankless jobs, but it is always the same reply.

I remember hearing an actress say something to the effect of; Women have to be better than men, for less money, look better and do it in heels to get half the respect.