It's Time to Boycott Arizona

[Nat]

[The_Lady_Snow]

I would still like to know what a member of my online community considers to be "that look"

Cause I bet it has nothing to do with sunshine and lollipops or anything positive.

[Julie]

I just need to say...
Sometimes I am so disappointed in the members of my community. This community (not only online).

We as LGBTQ know what it feels like to be hated. Just because I am a passing femme - god, sometimes I wish I was not. I have and my children have felt the hate from society. We as a community know what it feels like to be treated less than human.

There are still SODOMY Laws in this country.

Have we not learned from our own personal struggles? Each and every one of us, what it feels like to be hated based on who we are? You do not need to be a POC or a different religion to experience hatred. Go inside of yourself and feel it. Just feel what it feels like and maybe, you will get a glimpse of what it feels like for those who experience Racial Profiling. A glimpse really - because what we experience, is a fraction.

This is why I stopped posting on political threads. Why I like to be the bimbo in the other threads. Because I don't have to think. I don't have to feel what it feels like. It feels dirty and it feels like my barest soul is being exposed, yet again to ignorance and the ignorance is coming from MY COMMUNITY.

I am disgusted.

[Julie]

Originally Posted by cody

gawd i dont like this thread... az is my home and i love it.. i dont always like what the gov. does here.. but there is so much more to this state that i will not boycot.. also there are still alot of unthuths about this..

And another thing.
Too bad you don't like this thread - while you sit in your air conditioned home on your computer - You don't like this thread.

Well... People don't like being bludgeoned and forced to pull their babies out of school and told to leave the safety of their homes. Where will they go? Perhaps they will live in cars or on the streets. They will be exposed to the elements and dark of the night. The bad people.

So, you continue hating this thread, while there are people forced to expel Arizona and become one of the forgotten.

I am done!

[asphaltcowboi]

i am a member on this comunity like it or not. and even though im lt brn hair blue eyed i am 1/2 native american.. i live in az and i love it.. i vote to try to change things im not comfertable with.. i do not bash others states or there people.
as far as "the look" i mean the beautiful hispanic and native americans that make up this state.. yes its tuff because the "look" is like alot of the illeagles here. if there was some other way to identfy im sure it would be used.
i was not acusing any one person of being a hater sorry if anyone took it that way... i was only stating i wish it didnt exist.
an excuse us for being to broke to suport all comers

[The_Lady_Snow]

Originally Posted by cody

i am a member on this comunity like it or not. and even though im brn hrd blue eyes i an 1/2 native american.. i live in az and i love it.. i vote to try to change things im not comfertable with.. i do not bash others states or there people.
as far as "the look" i mean the beautiful hispanic and native americans that make up this state.. yes its hard because the "look" like alot of the illeagles here. if there was some other way to identfy im sure it would be used.
i was not acusing any one person of being a hater sorry if anyone took it that way... i was only stating i wish it didnt exist.

I don't even know what to say about your statements that are so filled with underlined racist issues.

WE ARE NOT ILLEGALS.. UNDOCUMENTED WORKERS.

How the hell would you suggest you differentiate between a native Latino or one who just got there yesterday?

No one is a hater who has decided to boycott your racist state, what we are is attempting to let your dislike for this kind of gross profiling be shown. Just remember these same people who don't want us here are the same people who don't like ANY KIND of queer.

I still think it bo be gross how you describe my people by saying "that look"

[asphaltcowboi]

Originally Posted by InfiniteFemme

And another thing.
Too bad you don't like this thread - while you sit in your air conditioned home on your computer - You don't like this thread.

Well... People don't like being bludgeoned and forced to pull their babies out of school and told to leave the safety of their homes. Where will they go? Perhaps they will live in cars or on the streets. They will be exposed to the elements and dark of the night. The bad people.

So, you continue hating this thread, while there are people forced to expel Arizona and become one of the forgotten.

I am done!

i dont like this thread because i do take it personal.. and everytime i post in here i am bashed because i live here and i love my home and my state.. i do wonder how other states would handle the exact problem we have.. so i come in here to read.. but i no longer will post in here either..

[The_Lady_Snow]

Originally Posted by cody

i dont like this thread because i do take it personal.. and everytime i post in here i am bashed because i live here and i love me home and my state.. i do wonder how other states would handle the exact problem we have.. so i come in here to read.. but i no longer will post in here either..

No one is bashing you Cody, you came to a thread that was started to discuss the bullshit that was going on at the time politically.

First they pass the Birther legislation. Now, Governor Brewer just signed SB 1070, the "Papers Please" law. Now any brown person in AZ can be stopped at any time by any cop and forced to prove that they are in the country legally. State officials claim that they won't profile, but I'm seriously doubting that the police are going to go around asking white folks to produce papers.

Polls show that 70% of residents support SB1070.

What has happened what is happening is fact, if Ohio did the same thing I would be just as adamant about not giving them my money.

I will NOT support anything that treats humans worse than animals and THAT is what your State's Government did, they painted a big ol' target on anyone who has what you call

"that look"

[Sparkle]

Originally Posted by cody

i dont like this thread because i do take it personal.. and everytime i post in here i am bashed because i live here and i love my home and my state.. i do wonder how other states would handle the exact problem we have.. so i come in here to read.. but i no longer will post in here either..

to borrow a phrase:
the personal IS political.

You *do* live in a physically beautiful state which is full of good people AND racist politicians and politics.

There are undocumented immigrants living in every state in this country, doing jobs that millions of unemployed "legal" citizens have no interest in, trying to build a life that is safe for themselves and their families.

Undocumented immigrants do NOT receive free housing. They do NOT receive free medical care. They are NOT taking jobs other people want. They are NOT negatively impacting the state of our public education systems. These are myths, very dangerous myths that allow people, like your state's politicians to pass very dangerous legislation with truly dire consequences - not just for anyone who looks non-white in Arizona, but for all non-white people in this country AND more broadly for our society as a whole.

This country IS a giant mess: economically, socially and politically - and none of the blame for that mess can be laid at the feet of immigrants (documented or undocumented); regardless of how convenient a scape goat they may be.

Arizona is a state I would love to explore, as a tourist; it is indeed full of natural beauty.
However, I will not be spending my dollars there while this legislation continues to exist.
I will feel the same way about Florida or Texas or any other state that tries to/and or successfully implements laws that are hateful, racist and create enormous divisions among us.

It is important, to me, that I am an educated voter, active politically and a conscious consumer.

Arizona citizens with the right to vote can help to reverse these horrible laws; I hope they do.

[weatherboi]

i think it sucks that most often times when a conversation like this goes down because a person decides they want to impression upon a community some kind of ism that works for them, and they go into defensive mode and conveinently pull out their native american status. i for one find it offensive and a form of deflection that enables them to be less accountable for their ist and ism views.

however beautiful Arizona may be, i commend our community members for packing up their chuck wagons and leaving the bullshit behind. it had to be a strategically rough decision and i for one feel lots of admiration for their actions to get the hell out of a state that racially profiles their citizens and their tourist visitors!!!

ohhhh and Arizona has always been a racist state...in 1991 the governor there decided to no longer recognize martin luther king day. i think his name was Mecham!!! ohhh and russell pearce i think is his name, an Arizona law maker that supports the white supremacy group National Alliance. i think they cosponsored and helped write the bill.

Public Enemy did a song about it back in the 90's...i heard the first time when i went to see them in atlanta.

[katsarecool]

Dear Cody, I truly understand the love you have for your state. I kind of compare it to the love I have of my family; though there are some in the family who are homophobic, racist and lack compassion for others. They make me angry. They make me sad. They embarrass me. I still love them but I resent when someone points out to me the fact that some people in my family are severly flawed. I just try to work on them telling them about their offensive behavior and hope they will change.

So hang in there. Try to make changes in the voting booth and continue to be supportive of your friends who are POC!!!

[Kobi]

Originally Posted by Sparkle

to borrow a phrase:
the personal IS political.

You *do* live in a physically beautiful state which is full of good people AND racist politicians and politics.

There are undocumented immigrants living in every state in this country, doing jobs that millions of unemployed "legal" citizens have no interest in, trying to build a life that is safe for themselves and their families.

Undocumented immigrants do NOT receive free housing. They do NOT receive free medical care. They are NOT taking jobs other people want. They are NOT negatively impacting the state of our public education systems. These are myths, very dangerous myths that allow people, like your state's politicians to pass very dangerous legislation with truly dire consequences - not just for anyone who looks non-white in Arizona, but for all non-white people in this country AND more broadly for our society as a whole.

This country IS a giant mess: economically, socially and politically - and none of the blame for that mess can be laid at the feet of immigrants (documented or undocumented); regardless of how convenient a scape goat they may be.

Arizona is a state I would love to explore, as a tourist; it is indeed full of natural beauty.
However, I will not be spending my dollars there while this legislation continues to exist.
I will feel the same way about Florida or Texas or any other state that tries to/and or successfully implements laws that are hateful, racist and create enormous divisions among us.

It is important, to me, that I am an educated voter, active politically and a conscious consumer.

Arizona citizens with the right to vote can help to reverse these horrible laws; I hope they do.

Sparkle,

We both live in Mass, and I'd venture to say we are both educated voters and consumers.

One thing that always amazes me in any argument, is that the word MYTH is used by all sides. Myth and Truth both contain elements of accuracy depending on which side of the fence you are on, and which side of a cause you are on.

Being we are both from Mass, I will use your "myth that undocumented persons are not given free housing or health care". Obamas Aunt. See article here....http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100921/...s_obama_s_aunt

Fact or myth? She says we gave her housing and health care when she was supposed to be deported. Think the taxpayers footed the bill for this or do you think Kenya did?

All it takes is one story of truth, directly from one person, to make a "myth" not a "myth".

And, as an educated voter and consumer, do you check the laws of every state you do business with? Mass still has a few not well known laws on the books that could be seen a detrimental to one group or another. Does this mean you dont spend money in your home state?

My point is simply, this is a complex issue that people are most comfortable making a simple issue. And it is very easy to poke holes in "holier than thou attitudes" simply because, people being people, provide the very ammunition needed to do so.

[The_Lady_Snow]

Which leads me to wonder if ALL of the other *white* Presidents were ever investigated as much as our Black President.

I don't believe W was ever asked for his papers, or proof of birth cerficicate.

Racial profiling became a top priority once our President was black, it just got worse.

[Nat]

I live in Texas and would have mixed feelings about a thread aimed at boycotting Texas because I do love my state. But sometimes being on the side of justice is to be at odds with the government and the majority of citizens within one's home state. Texas has passed some terrible laws and is capable of passing a law very similar to this one. Despite my love love love of my state, I would support any measure that would bring a greater level of justice to my home. To me that means staying and fighting injustice as long as my life and livelihood are not at severe risk. I cannot defend Texas when it comes to state-sanctioned racism, xenophobia, religious intolerance, homophobic and transphobic intolerance, the death penalty, the arrest of the homeless, the criminalization of poverty, the lack of services for the mentally ill, the state of the prison system, the revisionist and propaganda-filled history taught in our public schools, the fundamentalist religious beliefs that embrace intolerance, bigotry and violence. I love my state and would be sensitive to a thread criticizing Texas or threatening the economic well-being of this state, but I hold justice as a higher value than state pride. Many people have chosen to leave Arizona rather than be faced with the very real dangers of continuing to live there, but I would encourage anybody who feels privileged enough to stay in the state to really work their hardest toward making it a just, compassionate, neighborly place to live and/or visit rather than putting one's effort into defending the truly indefensible actions of arizona's racist policies.

It's the people who stay who have the most power to use their power as voters, as citizens and as consumers to make Arizona (or any other home state) a place of justice, equality and neighborliness.

"I love America more than any other country in this world, and, exactly for this reason, I insist on the right to criticize her perpetually."

-James Baldwin

[QueenofSmirks]

I, too, live in Arizona. However, even though yes, I can read, I haven't lived here long enough to have an opinion about local politics.. yet. I refuse to gain all of my "knowledge" from reading articles and other peoples' opinions.

However, I do think Cody is and has been bashed for his opinions. And I do think much of what he has said has been taken out of context and pounced upon.

Someone stated that they wanted to see Arizona collapse. Really? So, all the people who voted against the current government should go down in flames too? Unbelievable.

[Nat]

I want Arizona to feel the full economic effects of choosing racial injustice and intolerance and I hope the effects are palpable and that their cause is clearly discernible.

I feel the same way about Texas. That's the only way a capitalist democracy can move toward justice when the majority of the state votes for a xenophobic and racist government.

When people vote to support racist government in order to have more for themselves. That is truly selfish. And for people who fought against these laws, I hope they continue to fight for justice. Sometimes justice means acknowledging that you yourself do not deserve the biggest cut of meat. Sometimes justice means giving up privilege and learning to share. It means advocating for equality even if doing so means you yourself have to give up some privilege.

[MsDemeanor]

Originally Posted by cody

wishing there werent so many haters in the world.

Yeah, me too. If there were less haters then Brewer couldn't get enough votes to win re-election and this terrible law would never have passed.

Brewer's scum for more than just 1070, though. Local reporters have been investigating her and her office's connections to private prison firms. It seems that her administration is deeply connected with those firms. Not only are they working to privatize all of the prisons, they were connected to the writing of 1070, which gives them more business in the private prisons they already have in the state. Bottom line - 1070 is all about putting money in Brewer's cronies pockets. Typical republican crap - money matters and screw everything and everyone else.

[Sparkle]

Originally Posted by Kobi

Sparkle,

We both live in Mass, and I'd venture to say we are both educated voters and consumers.

One thing that always amazes me in any argument, is that the word MYTH is used by all sides. Myth and Truth both contain elements of accuracy depending on which side of the fence you are on, and which side of a cause you are on.

Being we are both from Mass, I will use your "myth that undocumented persons are not given free housing or health care". Obamas Aunt. See article here....http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100921/...s_obama_s_aunt

Fact or myth? She says we gave her housing and health care when she was supposed to be deported. Think the taxpayers footed the bill for this or do you think Kenya did?

All it takes is one story of truth, directly from one person, to make a "myth" not a "myth".

And, as an educated voter and consumer, do you check the laws of every state you do business with? Mass still has a few not well known laws on the books that could be seen a detrimental to one group or another. Does this mean you dont spend money in your home state?

My point is simply, this is a complex issue that people are most comfortable making a simple issue. And it is very easy to poke holes in "holier than thou attitudes" simply because, people being people, provide the very ammunition needed to do so.

Kobi,

I agree with your point - this issue is not a simple one; it is indeed very complex. My post was neither meant to be an exhaustive discourse nor a simplifying of an multi-layered socio-economic & global issue. It was meant only to convey, in a neutral tone, my opinion on the subject of boycotting Arizona and to express my very passionate concerns about the dangerous and pervasive beliefs held by a huge portion of our population about undocumented people.

An important sidebar comment: I believe strongly in the importance of socialized medicine and believe that every person (regardless of race, ethnicity, class, age, ability, religious belief, gender, gender identity or sexual orientation, immigration status OR insurance coverage) has a right to medical care. Full stop, no exceptions.

I also agree with what I think you were saying - that there are always exceptions to the rule.

That is why I did not say (for example):
No Undocumented Immigrants ever (have ever, will ever) have recourse to public funds and support (housing, disability, food stamps etc).

I don't believe in, and I try hard not to make statements that are absolutes.
Absolutes beg exceptions.

While I appreciate your attempt to debunk my myth-debunking
I have to point out that the news article you cite is not about an undocumented person receiving benefits, it is about a person who arrived in the country as asylum seeker who was ultimately granted legal status. In the interim (between her arrival, first denial and ultimate success at obtaining status) she was never illegal or undocumented. She was documented from the moment she applied for asylum.

In the article she is cited as being "illegal", the use of "illegal" is irresponsible and inaccurate journalism. Mrs. Onyango went through an extensive and lengthy legal system which included a denial, a deportation order and legal appeals which lasted over ten years, during which time she was not granted public housing nor disability support.
She was, however, given medical care when she had a medical emergency but then went on to live in homeless shelters and battled a crippling disease. I, for one, am incredibly relieved that at some hospital in Boston they did NOT throw her out on the street when she was most in need.

Regardless, as I said, there are always exceptions to absolutes.
I'm quite sure someone else on this forum could come in here and tell me that they know someone who knows someone who illegally crossed a border and managed to trick several government social services agencies and obtain a free house and benefits, and lived the life of reilly at the US tax payers expense.

My opinions about the pervasiveness and dangerousness of these myths (as I see them) is based on my personal and professional experience.
*I* have personally been on the sharp side of immigration bureaucracy and I have worked with 1000s of people from around the world in similar (and FAR FAR FAR WORSE) situations than my own.

The belief that all immigrants are economic migrants determined to swindle honest hardworking "legal" citizens from their resources is prevalent not only in the US but also UK, France, Germany, Greece, Italy, Australia (to name but a few countries).
I think it is scary and I believe the truths of these beliefs need to be redressed.
To my mind, Arizona's legislation embodies all that I find most disturbing about these beliefs.

As to boycotting a place, you are quite right, if I were to boycott every state and nation that has legislation on their books that I find unjust - I don't know where in the world I could live (never mind travel as a tourist). I can not boycott every state nor every nation; just as I can not fight for every political or ideological belief I have - I have to pick & choose my battles, my boycotts and which "issues" I expend my resources on.

Immigration Rights (which to my mind exemplifies my beliefs about basic human rights) - is one (of a few) that I choose.

ps. my tone isn't intended to be holier than thou or holier than anyone, but I accept that my voice can be read that way, particularly when I dive in to a topic I so passionately care about.

[Corkey]

Originally Posted by cody

i dont like this thread because i do take it personal.. and everytime i post in here i am bashed because i live here and i love my home and my state.. i do wonder how other states would handle the exact problem we have.. so i come in here to read.. but i no longer will post in here either..

The beauty of a state doesn't negate the ugliness of racism. It persists in every culture, so while you have your opinion, of how you love your state, I have facts that make the ugliness stand out like a sore thumb. The two are not exclusive to your state.

[The_Lady_Snow]

Originally Posted by QueenofSmirks

I, too, live in Arizona. However, even though yes, I can read, I haven't lived here long enough to have an opinion about local politics.. yet. I refuse to gain all of my "knowledge" from reading articles and other peoples' opinions.

However, I do think Cody is and has been bashed for his opinions. And I do think much of what he has said has been taken out of context and pounced upon.

Someone stated that they wanted to see Arizona collapse. Really? So, all the people who voted against the current government should go down in flames too? Unbelievable.

The articles we all posted about what was going Arizona contain nothing but facts, what your Governor did, tried to do and has been doing is something we did not make up, lie about, and distort. When cody came upon this thread he was clueless to what was going on in his own state. Here is the exchange:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nat
Panelists: Arizona SB 1070 has had profound impact on Native Americans

since the bill became law, racism has become legitimized, and violence against Native peoples "is more blatant than ever." Recently, "tribal members out in the desert chopping wood have been handcuffed and beaten because they didn't have any identification on them," he said. Although the people were on their tribal land, he noted, "somehow the border patrol saw this as a legitimate way to detain people and abuse people violently."

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cody



is this happening here in az? i live here and watch the news daily.. ive heard of no such thing. i also have many native american friends that well most of them like the seperation of themselfs not being clumped in. i dont care for the law much but there are alot of untruths flying around about it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by cody
is this happening here in az? i live here and watch the news daily.. ive heard of no such thing. i also have many native american friends that well most of them like the seperation of themselfs not being clumped in. i dont care for the law much but there are alot of untruths flying around about it.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Quote:
Originally Posted by AtLastHome



The article is by Native American spokespeople and stems from a panel of Native Americans as part of a discussion among Native activist leaders. It isn't from a news broadcast depicting one specific news event.

Now, I do remember that Gov. Brewer did take back her initial statements about headless bodies in the desert due to criminal Latino immigrants a couple of months back. That seemed to be a rumor and entirely false. Good she cleared that up.


He dismissed it by comparing it to a one squeaky wheel being overheard in a group of wheels.


Then this morning he comes in and says

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cody



gawd i dont like this thread... az is my home and i love it.. i dont always like what the gov. does here.. but there is so much more to this state that i will not boycot.. also there are still alot of unthuths about this..


Now, had he read the whole thread from its inception he would see that it was started to discuss what was happening (truths) in AZ with its law that lead and would of lead to racial profiling. People aren't saying everyone in AZ should perish, die, or disappear. We aren't denying it's beauty and ethnic history.

What we did do is discuss what everyone should be discussing when it comes to legal human rights. Once we turn a blind eye to a law that profiles one particular *look* of people we are headed for some incredible fucked up trouble.

No one is jumping Cody or saying Cody shouldn't be here etc etc. What I do see is people who are passionate express themselves about what is going on and its injustice.

It kills me when someone says something that is going to get an unpopular response use the deflective *I am getting piled up on* defense.

FFS cody came up in here using terms such as "that look" and brushing it off with the claims of Native American heritage and state love etc etc. It's ridiculous to cry *pile on* when you say something that may or may not be read as offensive.

It would be as ridiculous if I went to the nilla there and said:

"gawd i dont like this thread... BDSM is my life and i love it.. i dont always like what the all the play parties and there different rules.. but there is so much more to BDSM that ya'll don't know about so why do you need this space?.. also there are still alot of unthuths about this... WOW how rude."

I am pretty sure and I would expect my ass would get handed to me for coming up in a space and pointing my finger at folks.

I am no holier than though, hell I am nowhere close to this term, what I am is passionate about this matter not only because it's the right thing to do, but it affects me since I am one of those people this state considers undesirable.

Oh as for the economic demise wished upon your state- Sometimes we need to give up things to get what we must have. I would rather have nothing then stand by and watch someone stripped of their human rights, I sometimes envy those who pick comfort over what is right, till we are all willing to hurt a lil, bleed a lil, lose a lil, then nothing is ever going to change.